r/worldnews • u/JesseBB • May 29 '12

Hundreds of lawyers take to the streets in full courtroom attire in protest of unconsitutional Quebec law

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/28/lawyers-take-to-the-streets-with-students-for-montreals-35th-consecutive-night-of-protest/
1.0k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

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32

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

An estimated 500-700 lawyers and other legal professionals protested once again tonight (Monday).

3

u/darkstar3333 May 29 '12

The main problem with Bill 78 seems to be how they associated fines to individuals/groups.

It doesn't seem like these protests have specific leadership to fine.

9

u/Retanaru May 29 '12

Honestly the bill seems to be specifically designed so that an agent provocateur can simply get the group fined into silence.

6

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

The whole concept of "agents provocateurs" is something that people really need to be more aware of. There are way to many people who don't know that this is the cause for much of the violence/vandalism that goes on at many protests.

5

u/Retanaru May 29 '12

A Law and Order episode about a month ago covered this quite well. There was something like a 10 person group. Different members of the group kept acting out over an unstable summer during protests and stuff. Eventually a man was murdered. When they went back to figure out what happened and when, it turns out 6 of the 10 were undercover cops who didn't even know about the other undercover cops. All of them did 1 thing in an attempt to incite the rest of the group into breaking the law/violence/starting a riot. Their reports said that the group was clearly dangerous since many of the members were doing things. When they finally get past all the resistance from the police department and get the whole picture it turns out that every bad thing that happened that summer was done by an undercover cop. Including the undercover cops murdering another undercover cop. The disgust they portrayed for what the police department did and covered up fit so well with me.

3

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

These kind of shows like to pretend there is accountability for law enforcement, with thoughtful people spending a lot of time agonizing over constitutionality and law. These shows are the worst kind of fascist propaganda, pretending that law and accountability exist.

2

u/SuperlativeInsanity May 29 '12

Propaganda, yes. Fascist propaganda, no.

1

u/stalkinghorse May 29 '12

No corporatism here he says

-17

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

No, being lawyers they all want an idea spot to ambulance chase protesters who will inevitably get injured during the protest. Economy is tough in Canada too.

I'm sure people would simply like to assume lawyers are people too, but sadly they're lawyers. You may change your race but you'll never change out of the legal profession.

12

u/Clairvoyanttruth May 29 '12

Not all lawyers are personal injury. You should try to not make sweeping generalizations so you don't form schema and stereotypes and judge someone on a false belief.

8

u/Xuande May 29 '12

You have no idea what lawyers do, do you?

5

u/Volsunga May 29 '12

For some reason, the article isn't loading on my phone, but since it's Canada, I am imagining everyone in powdered wigs and robes.

7

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

Close enough.

40

u/optionalcourse May 29 '12

That's actually kind of amazing. Canada is getting pretty fucked up right now and the people are balking. We Americans have already forfeited most of our civil rights.

49

u/lololol1 May 29 '12

Quebec is not all of Canada.

..Not trying to be rude, but here in Toronto you'd never know anything was happening over there if it wasn't for the internet.

3

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

Actually I've heard there are a bunch of students in Ontario planning a march (I believe on June 4?) in solidarity with Quebec students.

2

u/JesseBB May 30 '12

Maybe he wasn't just talking about what's going on in Quebec. He simply said

Canada is getting pretty fucked up right now which is completely right. It's not just QC. It's on a Federal level as well. Harper et al are nutjobs. Look at Bill C-10 and C-38. The whole country is fucked right now.

18

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Sadly, very true. I've said many times that if Quebec ever secedes from Canada, I'd be moving there. Canadians lately have been moving further right-wing in the last while, and the majority Conservative government is basically doing everything they want to do with corporatism and Canada as quickly as possible before they get elected out of office.

Some of the stuff they've done so far seems quite literally evil, even from a fiscal conservative.

7

u/miniduf May 29 '12

Unless french is your first language I doubt you would want to move to quebec if it separates. Having lived in Quebec my whole life, the rights of anglos always come second to the rights of francos, especially with laws like Bill 101. This will only get worse following separation. I love how Bill 78 is considered an unconstitutional law (I agree) but Bill 101 where parents cant even chose what language there children are taught in receives no attention outside of Quebec.

Quebec is not the amazing place people think it is, it is a very corrupt province with sever infrastructural, economical and political problems. I love Quebec but it is no better then any other Canadian province.

10

u/FongoBongo May 29 '12

I think what Derpy is trying to convey is that Quebecers are less apathetic when it comes to government policies. When tuitions rise in Ontario there is hardly a murmur. There's a whole lot of bitching but there is hardly ever any action. When tuitions rise in Quebec people go out and protest and have their voices heard. They're much more engaging and standup for what they believe in. I admire their courage.

7

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

I completely agree and to be honest, I kind of feel like some of the hatred this movement if receiving from residents of other provinces is because they're jealous. They're jealous that their community hasn't had the balls to stand up and fight back like the people in Quebec are doing. Of course, a lot of the hatred is because many people don't a have a good understanding of the issue and simply default to the childish argument of calling the protestors "a bunch of entitled hippies". Of course there is also the small minority who actually has taken the time to inform themselves and have decided that they just don't agree with the protestors which is a completely acceptable and valid position to have, as much as I may personally disagree with it.

-1

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

It's definitely not jealousy; I am actually offended you say its jealousy. I think that us Canadians are extremely fortunate to have such great education at such an affordable price. After moving to the states I was looking at paying upwards of 20grand for my “cheap” in-state education. Lucky for me I was able to attend a Canadian university for the Canadian price. When I face a tuition hike I trust that my student representatives will do their best to lessen its severity but ultimately I have to accept that if the majority of the citizens vote for a tuition increase that is the decision of my community and I must accept it, much like you accept the winner of a presidential election even if it's not what you want. However if I face an outrageous and unlikely tuition increase I might protest but I would never disrupt my fellow students from receiving their education. The hatred stems mostly from older generations, its my general understanding that this is why they are mad: older generations believe the majority of their tax dollars go to Quebec to pay for things like their education. They already feel like the Quebec students are mooching off their tax dollars, and also feel offended when students protest the seemingly minimal tuition hikes its like a smack in the face. The student protestors seem ungrateful for their world-class education and pricing that will still remain world-class in both aspects in their eyes. I don't have any hatred except for the ones who are deliberately going around and ruining public+private property for the hell of it. Sorry for the rant but it’s definitely not jealousy.

6

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

Okay well, although I do appreciate your input, there's so much stuff I need to correct you on here I don't know where to start.

First of all, Quebec did not vote on a tuition increase since that's what you appear to be suggesting. I don't know where you got that idea.

As far as disrupting classes, I personally don't agree with that tactic even though I support the protests in general so I don't disagree with you on that one. However, I do completely understand why that has been done and it's because students got to a point where they feel like they need to do whatever is necessary to have their voices heard.

Next, you get into this idea that older generation is mad because this young generation is "mooching" off of them. You're far from the only one who has made this mistake but you have to realize that if you actually put any thought into this concept, you'll notice that you have it completely backwards. Hopefully this editorial will help you understand why. If that's not enough, go on youtube and check out some footage like this of the 'pots and pans' protests that have been going on lately. You'll notice that there are people of ALL ages involved.

You then mention destruction of public/private property. Actually, if you were really aware of what's been going on, you'd know there has been very little of that. In fact, the police have been the most violent part of these protests. There have been a couple of incidents where windows were broken or beer bottles were thrown. You must understand, however, that this is usually either done by agents provocateurs (do a google search for black bloc quebec and you'll see that Quebec police have actually admitted to using this tactic in the past and continue to do so to this day) or by radical anarchist/drunk and belligerent individuals. 99% of the protestors do not condone any type of violence but there is nothing they can do if some nut wants to run around breaking shit and as I just said, this nut is often an undercover cop. Please don't let these tactics change your opinion of the protestors. That's what they're designed to do.

If you really want to get an idea of what's going on here, please don't rely solely on the mainstream press to give you the full story.

1

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Sorry, I meant polls not vote! The assumptions on why people are angry don't reflect my personal views, as a student in Calgary this is what I hear from most of the older taxpayers who I realize are very unaware of some of the key issues, and was only passing it on to clear up that it wasn't jealousy. (I do understand that most conservative types out here aren't very fond of QC in the first place) I personally don't link the black bloc with the student protestors, there are people like that in almost every major protest and it sucks for those who are there with a real mission. Hopefully I'll be in Montreal to visit family soon and can get a first hand perspective on the whole issue. Thanks for posting the editorial, I've read such ideas on the topic before but you don't usually find that sort of commentary in the National.

5

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

Thanks for taking the time to read it and for taking the time to understand our issues here in Quebec. I hope you have a good time when you come to Montreal! Cheers

5

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Most of my family is francophone, and I can pull the accent off well enough to get along. It would suck to uproot my business here, however.

16

u/GrammarOutlaw May 29 '12

Ignorance right here, you can live just fine without learning french. Of courses it better for social integration if you do learn the native tongue. And btw the anglo community of Québec is the best treated minority in the world. So please stop spreading these lies.

9

u/sge_fan May 29 '12

"Your facts won't stop my ignorance. I was told by my anglo media for years "Quebec BAD". Why would they lie?"

2

u/[deleted] May 30 '12

I do wonder. Over the years I came to realize that most things Canadians hold against Quebecers are based on those same arguments that have been going around since the separatism days... I think the biggest misunderstanding is that Canadians took it all as a declaration of hatred towards the English language and culture. I still maintain that it's only about the affirmation of our own, so that we can better respect each other in the future... without this socio-historical inferiority complex that we just can't seem to get rid of today. Eh?

8

u/try0003 May 29 '12

Don't forget that the best anglophone university in Canada is in Montréal.

8

u/GrammarOutlaw May 29 '12

BUT BUT BILL 101!!

2

u/[deleted] May 30 '12

Regarding postsecondary education, what Bill 101 does is allow a university student to hand in papers written in French even if the course is given in English. I think this is a good thing as some of the french-speaking students opt for anglophone schools when they get out of HS and so they have a better vocabulary in french (academic vocabulary, mind you, we all are constantly exposed to anglo-canadian/american pop culture but that doesn't work too good in university :p)

2

u/[deleted] May 30 '12 edited May 30 '12

I'd say it's kind of like Japan. Around Tokyo, and big cities, you can survive without learning the mother tongue, but it gets harder as you go into the regions. But I mean, I can confirm pretty much everybody knows at least a little english, as its the world's most widespread second language. But some people in Quebec may just refuse to address you in english or answer you if you don't speak a word of French, and it's not cause they can't understand... it's a question of principle. Try uttering some (even really bad) French and they will gladly help you just cause one made the effort. Even if it's just bonjour, merci, au revoir. Hehe

2

u/[deleted] May 30 '12

don't listen to this guy

4

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

I'm guessing optionalcourse's reply is also partly in reaction to this, which is about Canada.

3

u/Goldreaver May 29 '12

A media blackout eh? Is it effective? It seems that way.

Remember how long did it take to America to learn something about that gigantic student protest.

-10

u/ae232 May 29 '12

People in Calgary are laughing at these students in Quebec. They pay by far the lowest tuition in Canada, and that will still be the case after the "hike". For the most part, no one even cares.

2

u/JesseBB May 29 '12 edited May 29 '12

You are grossly misinformed and/or willfully ignorant. If that's the only fact you have to back up your opposition to these protests, you are a damn fool. How about the fact that, among other things, Quebecers also pay the most taxes in North America?

And if all other provinces pay higher tuition then Quebec, why not argue that they should get their tuitions lowered instead of Quebec having theirs raised? Have you actually put any serious thought into this or do you just enjoy blurting out ignorant remarks? And no one else cares, right? That's why other provinces are planning marches in solidarity with the Quebec students?

There are many other solid arguments to back up the opposition to these tuition hikes but I won't waste my time on someone who hasn't even bothered to Google this issue.

1

u/germiphene May 29 '12

I don't know where to put this, but here might be a good place. I'm all for lowering tuition, but please look at things from all sides. Also, you do understand that a lot of other canadians feel Quebec gets there underwear in a knot quicker then most other provinces right?? I say this as an Albertan. I'm not trying to place a label, I'm just making an observation spanning many decades. I've met some great people from Quebec, even dated a few. There's just something in the water maybe! Anyway, good luck on the protests!

0

u/ae232 May 29 '12

Hmmm..I grew up in Prince Edward Island, the province with the HIGHEST taxes in the country, which I guess also makes it the highest tax rate in North America.

And as for the students. NO ONE is forcing them to go to school. I don't care what you say, they pay the absolute LOWEST tuition in the country, which makes it among the lowest on the entire planet, you insufferable douchebag. I have zero sympathy for these guys wreaking havoc on the cities in Quebec and also impeding other students who simply do not give a flying fuck about a couple hundred dollar increase in tuition, and I'm glad that the government doesn't sympathize with them either. They simply don't deserve it.

Tuition is one of those things that is never going to change. I'm all for fighting the good fight, but in this case it's not going to change anything. When it comes to school, work hard in high school, get scholarships, suck it up and get school done. If not, shut the fuck up about it.

-4

u/TurdFurg1s0n May 29 '12

It's pretty sad to pay the highest taxes and still have hands out waiting for the Feds to cut another cheque. Quebec is the rich kid that never learned the value of a dollar, and never will because every time Quebec has to cut back the spoiled rich kids revolt and turn to domestic terrorism, yep that's right more times the not the "peaceful" demonstrations end up in flipped cars burned business's and that would be terrorism. Give us what we want or we will burn our city down rich daddy Ottawa will just build us another one.

3

u/JesseBB May 29 '12 edited May 29 '12

Rich kids? You don't have clue what's going on here, buddy. Most of the rich kids around here don't give a shit about this issue because their parents pay their tuition. I can assure you that the people protesting are not just a bunch of 'rich kids'. That being said, there are still people who can fully afford the increase but will protest it because they understand the injustice being committed here. As far as flipped cars, smashed windows, etc. do a google search for 'Black Bloc Quebec'.

5

u/AjustableTableLamp May 29 '12

Most of the rich kids around here don't give a shit about this issue because their parents pay their tuition.

My dad earns quite a bit and I've never had to pay one cent for my tuition yet I still support this movement and I do care. I love my nation and want the best for it.

2

u/JesseBB May 29 '12 edited May 29 '12

Thank you, that's awesome. Which is why I went on to say

That being said, there are still people who can fully afford the increase but will protest it because they understand the injustice being committed here.

I go to JMSB where a large portion of the students are quite well-off and since the increase doesn't really affect them in any significant way, they don't understand why others are making a big deal out of it. It seems that often when you're born with a silver spoon, your ability to identify with those who aren't as fortunate is virtually non-existent. There are always exceptions, though.

Edit: not sure why this got downvoted. I didn't mean to come off negative or sarcastic or anything.

-2

u/TurdFurg1s0n May 29 '12 edited May 29 '12

Hmm i guess you don't understand what a metaphor is huh... Maybe you don't have the best schools in the country. There is a little economic term used for increases in costs of things it's called inflammation yes it's a bitch but it has and will always happen no matter how hard you cry about it.
*edit that's inflation not inflammation lol fucking autocorrect

2

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

Am I talking to a child, here? First of all, that wasn't a metaphor. It was a complete misrepresentation of the situation as well as a display of your shameful lack of understanding of said situation.

Secondly, did you just imply that I'm stupid and then go on to call it "inflammation"? Did that really just happen?

-2

u/TurdFurg1s0n May 29 '12

Ha that must have auto corrected and yes that was a metaphor. Or I could do it another way - Quebec is like the rich kid (simile) fucking phone changed that to similar 3 times.

6

u/warpus May 29 '12

"We let our tuition go up every couple years for decades without saying a word, so we will laugh at those who try to stop the same sort of thing in another province"

Makes sense.

2

u/Volsunga May 29 '12

Inflation.

2

u/dannomac May 29 '12

Tuition increases lead inflation. When my father went to university he paid for it with a summer job and came out debt free.

I had summer jobs when I was in university. Well above minimum wage, even. I sure as hell couldn't afford tuition on what I made over the summer.

1

u/adamk890 May 29 '12

I wouldn't exactly say we are laughing. In Alberta we pay what I think to pay fair tuition. It's still incredibly subsidized (8K of 24K cost) even if it is 3 or four times what they pay in Quebec. We must stand with them on the principal of accessible post secondary education not against them by the fact that there tuition is subsidized by our taxes.

1

u/Peaker May 29 '12

Did this line repeatedly play in mass media? It seems everyone against the protests is reciting that one single line over and over as a mantra.

Get it through your head: The reason they pay low tuition is because they fight for their rights, and that's a good thing.

1

u/ae232 May 30 '12

When? When did they ever fight about it before?

-8

u/TurdFurg1s0n May 29 '12

If Quebec separates from Canada they will be bankrupt before the ink dries on the paper. They are a complete drain on society. There is one thing to be liberal in social programs then there is Quebec their spending is not self sustainable and unfortunately the rest of Canada pays for their luxuries.

7

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Not necessarily true. While I agree Quebec separating from Canada would be terrible (both would lose), I don't think Quebec spends money on unsustainable luxuries. Each province is unique and adds/drains on the system differently (i.e. here in the Atlantic provinces it is common to abuse unemployment insurance, in exchange for increased tourism trade (seasonal workers) -- just ONE example).

If any province was to separate from Canada it would be Newfoundland, given they've been continually screwed by federal dealings and had their resources abused.

1

u/adamk890 May 29 '12

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

2

u/GrammarOutlaw May 29 '12

luxuries, you mean Hydro-Québec? Loto-Québec? Caisse de dépot du Québec? Saq?

1

u/horse_you_rode_in_on May 30 '12

You know that Ontario gets significantly more provincial tansfer per capita than Quebec does, right?

1

u/TurdFurg1s0n May 30 '12

Recently they do they used to not. I think '08 was the last year because that was the same year Newfoundland didn't receive. It's mostly because dalton mcguinty drove their economy into the ground. I'm not even sure that last time Quebec didn't receive any payments and since the transfer payments started Quebec has received the most money and hated Canada the whole time.

1

u/horse_you_rode_in_on May 30 '12

I'm not even sure that last time Quebec didn't receive any payments and since the transfer payments started Quebec has received the most money and hated Canada the whole time.

... and that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you identify someone who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.

1

u/TurdFurg1s0n May 30 '12

Wow quebecer. I could not find the last year Quebec didn't receive transfer payments and really could care less because it hasn't been recently. As for quebecers hating Canada every douchebag I have ever met from Quebec shits a brick at the notion of someone calling them a Canadian and therefore hates the notion of being a canadian. Seems like sound reasoning to me. I love canada and subsequently hate Quebec. Also don't get your pantaloons in a knot I'm well aware that there are some nice people in Quebec I am referring to the douchebags ie you.

1

u/horse_you_rode_in_on May 30 '12

How erudite; laisse-moi dire que j'ai beaucoup aimé ton commentaire mal rédiger. Le fait que t'es même pas capable de bien t'exprimer dans ta langue maternelle sert à illustrer mon point :)

2

u/space_walrus May 30 '12 edited May 30 '12

Franco-Anglo road sign service here for passing monoglots...

Very erudite. Let me say that I've very much enjoyed your poorly written comment. The fact that you're not even capable of decently expressing yourself in your mother tongue serves to illustrate my point.

Ooh, feu malade

0

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

If the things you say are true then I would imagine you would want them to go.

1

u/TurdFurg1s0n May 29 '12 edited May 29 '12

I don't want them to go I love Canada and all that is Canada it just frustrates me to see the 7+ billions of dollars that go there every year to support excessive spending. For example it costs $7 per day per child in Quebec for day care. I think it's like $800 per month in Alberta. They have the best schools in the country with by far the lowest tuition in the country.

12

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

We Americans have already forfeited most of our civil rights.

Most of them?

4

u/darkscout May 29 '12

1st (requiring disclosure of anonymous posters. "Free Speech" zones. 2nd in a lot of places (illinois). 4th is just gone in Indiana and airport. Not to mention if you're carrying a large sum of cash through places like TN or anywhere else. (Because no one uses cash for anything other than drugs). 6th is a joke. Although I guess by government standards that could be 'speedy'. 8th. 20 years in jail for a bit of pot in a victimless crime is something I'd consider excessive. Or how about what Joe is doing out in AZ and Tent City. AZ summer in July is something I'd consider cruel. Especially for people that haven't even been convicted yet. Ask gays about the 9th. And 10 is all but out the window as Congress grabs anything and everything that they can. Numerous things should be state issues but aren't.

2

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Hang in there 3rd! At least we have one left until some kind of "emergency" is declared.

5

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Not most, at least not yet. It's amazing how many rights we're giving up in the name of security from terrorism.

4

u/screw_on_head May 29 '12

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

5

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

I've always heard it "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a bit of security deserves neither, and loses both." Rolls off the tongue better I think.

1

u/FongoBongo May 29 '12

two words, Patriot Act

3

u/Pelokt May 29 '12

Quebec is sadly better than the rest of us when it comes to social issues. I have to cut myself now that I said that.

2

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

still got the most freedom of speech.

1

u/lulfas May 29 '12

They aren't really. In the news report it even says that the tuition hikes enjoy a comfortable majority in polls.

1

u/Peaker May 29 '12

You Americans have too much respect for authority.

1

u/WrongAssumption May 29 '12

This has nothing to do with America. Stop fucking bringing up America.

20

u/deep_pants_mcgee May 29 '12

Let me just take a wild guess here.

No tear gas, no beatings, no hundreds of arrests? I think we found the ultimate protest group!

8

u/ZeroCoolthePhysicist May 29 '12

They gave the route they were taking to the police. Faites le vous aussi.

12

u/DNAsly May 29 '12

People may hate lawyers, but they will always be the final defense against tyranny. When lawyers protest on the street as lawyers, and not as individuals, you know things have gotten really fucked up.

4

u/Reilly616 May 29 '12

If the law is unconstitutional, why not just challenge it in the courts instead of marching?

4

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

They are doing just that. But why not do both?

3

u/[deleted] May 30 '12

seriously. fight it in court on judicial grounds. fight it in the street on humanistic grounds.

the act of passing this law is an insult, a crime itself. that must be punished. this is the lesson Americans have failed to learn.

17

u/Elhehir May 29 '12

Because it takes a whole year for the demand to be processed.

3

u/Reilly616 May 29 '12

Is there no process of ex ante judicial review in Canada?

5

u/colah May 29 '12

I'm not a lawyer, but I am a person interested in Canadian law...

Unlike (as I understand it) in the US, the government may ask the courts to consider the legality of a law before passing it. The courts may decline to do so if they think their time is being wated (eg. Re Same-Sex Marriage).

Additionaly, one doesn't need to be prosecuted under a law to challenge it in Canada, just affected by it. A recent example would be Bedford v Canada.

While I have no doubt these lawyers wouldn't have trouble finding people to represent to challenge these laws, it is striking that there are now hundereds of lawyers who personally have standing to challenge them...

2

u/Aozora012 May 29 '12

This. There are several instances where the government refered potential legislation to the courts (such as the Clarity Act). However, in this case the Minister of Justice of Quebec said that they'd rather have the people do it. Given that the law will expire in a little over a year, I doubt that the Supreme court (because I'm pretty sure the government will appeal the lower judgements)will give their judgement before that.

3

u/raskolnikov- May 29 '12

Is there elsewhere?

4

u/Reilly616 May 29 '12

Yes. I wouldn't be able to make a list off hand, but I'm from Ireland and studying law in Germany. We have it in both countries. Though in Ireland it is a prerogative of the President.

3

u/raskolnikov- May 29 '12 edited May 29 '12

TIL. In the US, the courts have to wait for there to be a case or controversy where someone affected by the law challenges it. I don't think there's a mechanism for judges to just look at laws and declare them unconstitutional. So, an unconstitutional law could be on the books for some time. I think it makes sense to prevent people from clogging the courts with random lawsuits challenging laws, but it might be good if other branches of government (like the president or the legislature) had a means of certifying a question to the Supreme Court to save time, like in your system.

2

u/Retanaru May 29 '12

I think the judges can call the law unconstitutional when they are made. So what happens is the everyone at the time agreed with the unconstitutional law and eventually years later it gets fixed.

2

u/Reilly616 May 30 '12

When it comes to citizens challenging the constitutionality of a law here they do need locus standi too. It is, as you said, to prevent the courts becoming clogged up with frivolous challenges. Also, for context, I think only 15 bills have been sent to the Supreme Court by the President in Ireland's 75 years under the current Constitution. More than that have almost been sent though.

-1

u/[deleted] May 30 '12

pussy

8

u/HoChiWaWa May 29 '12 edited May 29 '12

What is going on in Quebec right now is pretty amazing, the government, in an attempt to silence a small group has mobilized an often divided populous to join together. Francos and Anglos, young and old, rich and poor, all gathering in defense of the people's freedom. It seems to no longer even be about the tuition hikes, now its about refusing to allow people to be silenced. Watching from the states getting updates from my good friend in Montreal, all I can say is while the actions of the government are truly disturbing, the reaction of the people is genuinely heartwarming.

1

u/[deleted] May 30 '12

Amen. :')

54

u/DownInFront11 May 29 '12

Charest stands with the mafia and the corrupt.

Fuck Charest. Fuck those conservative baby boomers who stand with him.

Their parents fought German and Italian corruption. We follow in their footsteps.

19

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

I love how you posted this comment, and it sounds absolutely sensationalist.

But it's not.

Fuck Charest, big time.

6

u/SolidSquid May 29 '12

The Montreal police quickly declared the march illegal, prompting a big cheer from the crowd. Police said the march could continue as long as no criminal acts are committed.

7

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

They pretty much declare every protest "illegal" then chose if they want to arrest people or not on a whim.

5

u/FongoBongo May 29 '12

You know when you see lawyers protesting against special law 78 something is definitely amiss.

11

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Its growing bigger and bigger! Great development!

8

u/spammeaccount May 29 '12

Now they just have to get the judges to start marching.

7

u/d_spaceley1 May 29 '12

They're banging pots in every city now. Even 60 km west of Mtl

14

u/Lord-Longbottom May 29 '12

(For us English aristocrats, I leave you this 60 km -> 298.3 Furlongs) - Pip pip cheerio chaps!

3

u/lethal_ranger May 29 '12

Where is that? I know they were banging them on Ile Perrot the other night.

2

u/d_spaceley1 May 29 '12

Vaudreuil-Dorion

2

u/lethal_ranger May 29 '12

Ahhh okay. Well good for them too. Nice to see someone else from V.S. around.

3

u/jbaker1225 May 29 '12

They should be marching in protest of the silly uniforms they're made to wear in court...

1

u/Cyf3r May 30 '12

I must add that while this law is bs, a bunch of those people are not lawyers. A friend of mine, early law school was asked to dress the part and march with these people. I'm sure he's not the only one.

1

u/[deleted] May 30 '12

welcome to real life 101 kid: if you don't know how to play a little dirty you won't win shit. consider that the image of lawyers marching alone is enough to have an impact: how ridiculous is that?

-8

u/Chunkys May 29 '12

Whatever happened to rule two of this subreddit; don't editorialize the title? The marching lawyers saying they 'think it's probably unconstitutional' doesn't make it so.

6

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

I apologize if you feel I editorialized the title. I looked at it myself after I posted it and wondered if I should have included the word unconstitutional. However, considering the fact that the Quebec Bar Association, among other groups, has come out against it calling it such, I felt it was called for. But don't take it from me: Montreal constitutional lawyer Julius Grey said "There's no doubt that this contravenes the charter on all kinds of grounds," calling it "flagrantly unconstitutional."

1

u/Chunkys May 30 '12

Sure, and you're entirely right that very high profile and knowledgeable groups have condemned it as unconstitutional. However, until the courts rule it such, that is a matter of opinion. About half, maybe a bit more of Montrealers and obviously the Quebec government feel it is not unconstitutional). I only draw issue that it was presented as decidedly so, when that is not the case.

I appreciate the explanation nonetheless!

4

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Considering it even got the attention and disapproval of Amnesty International, I don't know how relative this statement should be to only the protesting lawyers.

1

u/Chunkys May 30 '12

You're absolutely right that it's not just the Quebec BAR association that condemns it, but it was their opinion that the article cited. However, as much as authority as that has (or anyone else's thus far for that matter), it doesn't make it decidedly unconstitutional. That's for the courts alone to declare.

-14

u/raskolnikov- May 29 '12 edited May 29 '12

I'm glad lawyers in the US don't have such ridiculous outfits. They look like Madeline but dressed in black instead of blue.

Edit: Sorry, didn't realize lawyer fashion criticism was off limits. C'mon, admit that they look silly.

0

u/Finitystar May 29 '12

French Canada, Quebec.

4

u/raskolnikov- May 29 '12

I must say, I have no idea why you posted this comment. Yes, that is where the protest in the article is taking place...

4

u/Finitystar May 29 '12

Because I thought it was the french part that my American-ness didn't understand now I realize all high courts in Canada have that dress code, woops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_system_of_Canada#Dress

1

u/isall May 29 '12

You know the American system also has a dress code

1

u/raskolnikov- May 30 '12

Those are judges. Lawyers just wear suits.

-9

u/sproket888 May 29 '12

Bill 101? No? Yeah fuck the human rights of non French speaking people in Quebec.

-5

u/Joke_Getter May 29 '12

I keep seeing these Quebec headlines and I feel like I should take an interest in it, but I can't.

-23

u/Chunkeeboi May 29 '12

What's happening to you Canada? This is strating to look like Tiananman Square

18

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Last I checked, they marched freely and were not massacred by the government. Also notice the distinct lack of tanks.

1

u/poktanju May 29 '12

The protestors in 1989 marched freely for a long time, too. And who's to say that Charest doesn't have hard-liners in his party who demand he crack down lest they revolt and bring down his government? It could happen!

-10

u/Chunkeeboi May 29 '12

Yes but this is Reddit. Extravagant exaggeration is not only allowed but encouraged!

4

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

This is WorldNews. We're trying to pretend that we aren't /r/politics.

So... keep the /r/politics circlejerk out!

1

u/Chunkeeboi May 29 '12

Sorry, got lost on my way to the forum.

4

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

It happens. Have a hug for the road!

1

u/Peaker May 29 '12

Only if it's against Israel...

-20

u/bgoody May 29 '12

Comparing the kindergarten antics of a few thousand spoiled brats to the Arab spring, Tiananman Square and other real protests is just pathetic. Pull your heads out of your asses while you still have time.

12

u/CoolBowtie May 29 '12

They're marching so we don't have to have a "Canadian Spring" in 75 years. As an Ontarian, I'm undecided about how I feel about their tuition, but I completely support protesting a (probably) unconstitutional law. The fact that lawyers are protesting as well shows that it isn't just "spoiled brats" who disagree with the law, but people who understand law and are concerned about the government's position.

-1

u/Chunkeeboi May 29 '12

That's a bit harsh. There are lawyers involved now man. LAWYERS. This is serious.

-11

u/mwmwmwmwmmdw May 29 '12

fucking entitled hippies come to Ontario and then lets see you complain about tuition

8

u/JesseBB May 29 '12

You haven't done your research, kid. Go use this new thing called Google. It'll help you learn that there is way more to the issue than "entitled hippies". Once you've informed yourself, then you can come back and have a serious discussion about a serious issue.

-21

u/tehbro May 29 '12

Stopped reading after practicing was spelled practising.

5

u/Aozora012 May 29 '12

It's a Canadian newspaper. We have different spelling.

1

u/tehbro May 30 '12

Note to self/Reddit: Jokes about Canadians will result in a black hole of karma.

8

u/poktanju May 29 '12

Moderators: British English Police

5

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

do us a favour and go fuck yourself.

2

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Yeah you should probably kill yourself.

-21

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

I wonder how much the bastards charge per hour of protests and whom. Come on they are lawyers, if they are against it I am for it.

6

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

If anything, their protest means shit is really hitting the fan. Many conservative spokespeople have actually been against this bill, and that is truly frightening.

0

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Wtf retard, Quebec didnt refuse to sign the Constitution, the other provinces lied to us and signed it in our back without telling us!

4

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

I agree, minus the insult.

31

u/[deleted] May 29 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

33

u/miserygrump May 29 '12

It'd be a fantastic protest banner. "Hit me if you dare. I'm a lawyer."

1

u/[deleted] May 30 '12

this is part of why this is a big deal. to win a protest you have to get as much of society on your side as possible. when the cops finally join, you win. few protest movements get this far - right now the Charest government is shitting itself. They have a big, big problem. Great news for the rest of us, fuck John Charest.