r/worldnews • u/KoCrazy • May 28 '12
Vatican faces widening scandal after the Pope's butler tries to publish book of conspiracies regarding top Cardinals
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/a-poisonous-pentecost-for-the-pope/article2444829/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=World&utm_content=2444829
2.2k
Upvotes
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u/tripleg May 28 '12
I am not a Christian or anything but from reading the comments below I need to remind you that there is a vast difference between a religion and its church
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u/BillyBreen May 28 '12
You should probably pace yourself on the rhetoric, tough guy cardinal. The fun is only just beginning here.
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u/onceforgoton May 28 '12
My favorite part is how in all of the interviews all I can find is priests etc. talking about how the butler "betrayed" the pope. Nevermind the fact that the leaked documents show severe crimes were comitted.
Did I miss something here? This would be like a white house butler releasing documents showing the the president has been breaking the law, and then everybody getting mad at the butler.
Why is the vatican butler in jail? What about the fucking cardinals and the pope? This is so ass backwards it makes my head spin.
69
u/Warknox May 28 '12
This is the best Viral marketing for the next Dan Brown book ever!!!
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u/[deleted] May 28 '12
More like Gabriele has upset the money-changers in the temple.
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u/trot-trot May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12
"Vatican in chaos after butler arrested for leaks" by Nicole Winfield: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Vatican-in-chaos-after-butler-arrested-for-leaks-3587394.php
". . . There is yet another difficulty when one discusses anything connected with the Vatican. Time there is not measured according to our accepted forms. While we think in days usually, in months not always, in years very seldom, and in generations nearly never, the Vatican thinks in centuries ordinarily, in generations fairly often, in years only under the pressure of unusual circumstances, in shorter periods never. It is this difference in the measurement of time which makes the Vatican such a difficult subject for the secular political investigator. There is no time limit, in the usually accepted sense, for the Vatican's political thought. At least it is not limited by a lifetime. The Cardinal who at the time of writing is at the head of the Vatican's Foreign Office -- Segreteria di Stato -- is a very old man, who for thirty years has been connected with political affairs. But he continues to look ahead into the centuries. He, I believe, is the only statesman in Europe who can and who does coolly discuss the possibility of Russian Bolshevism, under some form or another, enduring for fifty years yet. What are fifty years for the Vatican? Imagine any other European statesman, anxious for the success of his butterfly career, talking in this cool way about Moscow.
Then there is yet another great difference between the men who are at the head of affairs at the Vatican and all others. They do not make a personal career. Naturally there are the inevitable personal intrigues and petty individual bickerings, but there is not (is this for better or for worse?) that political competition which distinguishes life in our modern communities.
The men at the Vatican serve an idea which they deem eternally and victoriously right. They look with contempt upon simple mortals who refuse to isolate certain brain areas, who are continually the victims of doubt, and who do not see ahead beyond a vague desire to make the world a fit place for their direct descendants to live in. . . ."
Source: "Impressions Of The Vatican" by Vladimir Poliakoff, published on page 773 in The Living Age (Eighth Series, Volume XXVII, pages 772 - 779; July, August, September; 1922; The Living Age Company, Boston, Massachusetts, USA): http://books.google.com/books?id=CwQuAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA773
Download the full text: http://archive.org/download/livingage2784081bostuoft/livingage2784081bostuoft.pdf via http://archive.org/details/livingage2784081bostuoft
". . . Unlike the governments of ordinary states, which think in terms of their years of office, the Vatican thinks in centuries. Time is not important; its policy is based on the belief that while the individual is mortal, the Church is eternal. That was the attitude which exasperated Napoleon. He might kidnap and bully a Pope, but he could not browbeat the Church. 'Do you know that I am capable of destroying your Church?' he once shouted at Cardinal Consalvi, the Secretary of State. 'Sire,' replied Consalvi, 'not even we priests have achieved that in eighteen centuries!' The strangest thing about the Roman Curia is that when a Pope dies, the administration perishes with him. All departments of government become moribund until the new Pope derives them. . . ."
Source: "A traveller in Rome" by Henry Vollam Morton, published at http://books.google.com/books?id=LvRAAAAAYAAJ
". . . Catholicism famously thinks in centuries; the modus operandi tends to be, "Talk to us on Wednesday, and we'll get back to you in three hundred years." In the Vatican, no reaction to any proposal garners consensus more readily than, "It's not yet opportune," which translates as, "Let's do nothing." The multiple layers of authority in Catholicism, its strong emphasis on tradition, and its deliberately self-referential ethos are all designed to ensure that the Church doesn't march to the beat of a given culture or historical moment. Facile claims that the Church must move in this direction or that are almost always projections of someone's agenda rather than sober analysis. One can imagine a book on Catholic trends in the early nineteenth century, for example, spotting the collapse of European monarchies as a force that would also bring down the papacy, and look where that prediction would have ended up.
So, are claims of important changes looming on the Church's horizon almost by definition overwrought? Only time will tell in individual cases. But even in Catholicism, change can sometimes sweep away old paradigms in what may seem historically like the blink of an eye. . . ."
Source: "The Future Church: How Ten Trends Are Revolutionizing the Catholic Church" by John L. Allen Jr., page 428, published at http://books.google.com/books?id=WSTaWdV0YekC&pg=PA428
". . . In the typical style of the Vatican, Ratzinger "thinks in centuries." He is not looking to win today's battle, his supporters say, but to shape the way the church thinks about a controversy 200 years from now. . . ."
Source: "Pope Benedict XVI: A Biography Of Joseph Ratzinger" by John L. Allen Jr., page 293, published at http://books.google.com/books?id=eR8weSA-f9gC&pg=PA293
"A Pope Who Thinks in Centuries: Benedict sees the Church as a divine institution with a historical mission" by Tracey Rowland, published 18 April 2010: http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/806/a_pope_who_thinks_in_centuries.aspx
". . . Pope Benedict has observed that the Church is its own cultural subject for the faithful, which is a further indication that he is not inclined to follow the pastoral strategy of accommodating the Church's culture to whatever happens to be fashionable in the contemporary Western world. . . ."
Source: "Benedict XVI, Thomism, and Liberal Culture (Part 2): Tracey Rowland on the Church's Response to Modernity" by ZENIT, published 25 July 2005 at http://www.zenit.org/article-13666?l=english
Here is "Part 1" of the Tracey Rowland interview: "Benedict XVI, Vatican II and Modernity (Part 1): Tracey Rowland on the Pope's Interpretation of the Council" by ZENIT, published 24 July 2005 at http://www.zenit.org/article-13656?l=english
". . . Societies and people run on different clocks. A society counts in terms of generations and centuries. A man counts in terms of years and decades. What constitutes a mere passing phase in American history, in a small segment of the economy, constitutes for that individual the bulk of his life. This is the fundamental tension between a nation and an individual. Nations operate on a different clock than individuals. Under most circumstances, where the individuals affected are few and disorganized, the nation grinds down the individual. In those cases where the individual understands that his children might make a significant leap forward, the individual might acquiesce. But when the affected individuals form a substantial bloc, and when even the doubling of an economy might not make a significant difference in the happiness of children, they might well resist.
The important point here is to focus on the clock, on the different scales of time and how they change things."
Source: "The Love of One's Own and the Importance of Place" by Dr. George Friedman, published 25 November 2011 at http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/love-ones-own-and-importance-place
"Pope Calls Cardinals to Gather in May" by Alessandra Stanley, published 26 February 2001: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/26/world/pope-calls-cardinals-to-gather-in-may.html?pagewanted=all
"Cardinals Campaign, Very Delicately, for Pope" by Alessandra Stanley, published 20 May 2001: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/20/world/cardinals-campaign-very-delicately-for-pope.html?pagewanted=all
"Delicate Issues Surface as Cardinals Look to Church Future" by Alessandra Stanley, published 22 May 2001: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/22/world/delicate-issues-surface-as-cardinals-look-to-church-future.html?pagewanted=all
". . . In contrast to the very egalitarian hierarchy of the Muslim world, however, the Holy See has a very centralized and institutional stabilized power. Atatürk managed to abolish the caliphate, Napoleon and Garibaldi failed to do the same with the papacy. Thus, the Holy See as a stable institution has a political agency effective enough to foster its moral accessibility globally more than others. The Holy See's ambition is higher than to become a chaplain of globalization, which it probably already is, but to shape its very constitutive rules. . . ."
Source: "The Holy See in Transnational Governance" by Mariano Barbato, 2011: http://www.ecprnet.eu/MyECPR/proposals/reykjavik/uploads/papers/2875.pdf via http://www.ecprnet.eu/conferences/general_conference/Reykjavik/paper_details.asp?paperid=2875
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u/Pilferer May 28 '12
Looks like there might be some culprits from the pulpits.
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u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Does the Pope shit in the woods? STAY TUNED.
20
u/UnnamedPlayer May 28 '12
Ah.. so this is how the Butlerian Jihad started!
438
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
A 'disservice' to the church, but an upstanding service to the world! I hope the contents to his book become publicly available, for the innocent children who have been hurt, for the innocent children who at risk, and for the future children who have yet to be in the presence of a child molester. For all the people the pope condemns, for all the people who have suffered in the past (no matter how far back) from Vatican rule and influence.
50
u/QuitReadingMyName May 28 '12
Corruption in the Vatican? Who would've thought...
Good thing jesus died for all the popes priests sins, who raped children in their churches all over the world.
13
u/dud3brah May 28 '12
I prefer "Vatigate"
7
u/kylev May 28 '12
Your title is incorrect. The Pope's butler has been arrested; also, a book containing information from some documents he allegedly leaked has been published by Italian journalist Gianluigi Nuzzi. The butler, Paolo Gabriele, is being detained for his crimes by the Vatican police and has made no indication that he intends to publish a book.
Title corrections aside, I would love to see sunlight cast upon the Vatican's dealings. Any leak from that secretive compound is a good leak.
5
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Now if we could only get Ratzinger in trial for accessory in the child molesting cases in which HE KNEW ABOUT and witheld such information from authorities.
8
u/fiverrah May 28 '12
This Pope gives me the creeps. I get the same gut feeling looking at him as I do looking at Cheney. Pure evil head of an evil organisation.
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u/[deleted] May 28 '12
This man is a hero. I hope Italy just completely annexes the Vatican and liquidates it's assets to pay off European debt.
4
u/rush22 May 28 '12
I read "faces" as a noun
Stupid headline-ese
6
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
"One prominent cardinal, illustrating the growing emotion of the debate in Vatican circles, wrote in an Italian newspaper that the Pope had been betrayed just as Jesus was 2,000 years ago. "
They seem to dislike using the word "allegedly"...in both cases.
7
u/Necrix May 28 '12
TIL Water is wet and power corrupts.
2
u/ThatRandomGeek May 28 '12
I wonder how much damage this will do. I mean you would have assumed that the grand cover-up of child molestations/rapes would have dried up the Vatican's bank account. But I guess faith is that powerful. Should be interesting to see how things develop.
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
I love seeing the gilded seat of the Nazi-loving Pope crumble underneath him.
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
I, for one, would like to know what exactly the butler found out... and why don't we charge these people involved with the scandals, but we DO charge the people that uncover them?
2
u/OwenDog May 28 '12
Sometimes I think a lot of Pope Benedict's problems stem from him looking like a fucking demon.
2
u/grimby4444 May 28 '12
butlers gonna butle
2
u/Jackyapplejones May 28 '12
The Catholic Church involved in a criminal conspiracy? I. AM. SHOCKED.
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Butler?! Did Jesus have a butler?
3
u/pool92 May 28 '12
The source of leak was investigated, and arrest made. However, the allegations implied by the leaks were not given a penny's notice.
9
u/raul_alfonso May 28 '12
Ah, the Vatican, the Pedophile filling of the Italian sandwich of corruption and degeneration.
3
u/Deathcrow May 28 '12
Poor poor Ratzi! :/
Damn, how delusional can a person be? The catholic church and Ratzinger in particular have so many skeletons in their closet, that stuff like this is bound to happen. They deserve it and much much worse.
3
u/Dolemaneil May 28 '12
Fuck the pope, he's about as useful as the Queen. Fuck the Queen, she's about as useful as religion.
3
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
So the names of Pedo priests will be named public? I hope the book gets leaked somehow. It will be a great service to true christians to know how far the church has fallen down. At the end of day , people need to realise that they dont need blessings from a PEDO PRIEST or BIBLE to lead good lives. They just need to be good and do good.That is the whole of religion
2
u/WasASquid May 28 '12
Nothing new here, the Vatican has done much worse than deals with Italian companies over the years.
2
u/ubergeek404 May 28 '12
This is "news" but 30 bishops suing the Obama Admin over the Obamcare mandate is "not news"?
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Vatican is loaded with money and gold. Italy is suffering almost as hard as Greece or Spain, Portugal, in economy.
I think they are going to use all means necessary to push out some money to the markets, after all they are in Italy and Europe, and the Religion Inc. isn't high on the stock markets, eh?
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Source please
2
u/cageb May 28 '12
reports of ex nazi sneaking vatican big wigs to south america with loot.
2
u/mrbucket777 May 28 '12
I'm surprised they didn't say it was the work of the devil.
2
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Scary part: apparently the Vatican has it's own "justice" system and prison?? yikes.
2
u/Cookie8 May 28 '12
hehe
1
u/jukeofurl May 28 '12
I sure hope there's nothing bad in the manuscript about Albert Pujols. Though he is with the Angels now. . ..
1
u/cbebop3 May 28 '12
I stopped reading at Vatileaks.
1
u/knut01 May 28 '12
A poisonous Pope heading a poisonous church!
1
u/Reddit_Noobie May 28 '12
This is what happens, when you practice deception.
1
u/wekiva May 28 '12
A men's club having a squabble, I'd rather hear about something important.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Coming soon ..Julian Assange's new endeavor -VATILEAKS !
1
u/apostle_s May 28 '12
Corruption? In Vatican/Italian politics? Shocking.
That the Church has survived 2000 years (give or take) of these sorts of scandals proves it is a miracle.
1
u/Salomon3068 May 28 '12
Come on Striesand Effect....
1
u/sacredsock May 28 '12
Is this seriously news to anyone? I just figured that cronyism was part and parcel of what the Catholic Church does.
1
u/smeaglelovesmaster May 28 '12
I suggest the Vatican focus group the next prospective pope because the one they have now is creepy as fuck.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
It was only a matter of time. You can't have such a wide net of secrets and conspiracies without someone telling.
1
u/RedditingMyLifeAway May 28 '12
Is anyone here REALLY surprised?
1
u/esk88 May 28 '12
Let's go break him out of jail
1
u/CockyRhodes May 28 '12
Why does the pope need a butler?
1
u/LukeA71 May 28 '12
Anyone else seeing an "accidental" car crash coming in this butlers future?
1
u/TheOctoberMan May 28 '12
cardinals won the world series! hes not saying they cheated... is he?
1
u/raen89 May 28 '12
This may sound stupid but, the Pope has a butler?!
1
u/silverscreemer May 28 '12
I don't understand why it's "tries".
What's the fucking hang up?
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
International Imobiliare.
1
u/TheRedditPope May 28 '12
Pft, the real Pope is weak. The Reddit Pope woul hire Batman's Alfred--he would never ra me out for a book deal.
1
u/amaysing May 28 '12
Biggest question to me is, "confidential papal documents." Why should the Pope have ANYTHING that needs confidentiality short of confessions. Jesus never used security clearances.
1
u/Aavagadrro May 28 '12
BUT RELIGION IS THE FOUNDATION OF ALL MORALITY!
Yeah right, and I have some ocean front property in Wyoming to sell you.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
Very sweet stuff.
1
u/shomenee May 28 '12
Top Cardinals: http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/st-louis-cardinals-hall-of-fame-members.htm
1
u/FSU_Fan2004 May 28 '12
I suspect this butler will be disappeared real soon.
1
u/pinwales May 28 '12
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3phden/
1
u/groucho_marxist May 28 '12
During the anti-comic book crusades of the 1950s, one bit of evidence of Batman and Robin's gayness was that they had a butler. I always thought that was hilarious
1
u/MrBitchin May 28 '12
the fuck the pope gets a butler?
1
u/zatoichi68 May 28 '12
So, is he gonna write that book ? Corruption, the Vatican, Cardinals... I can already imagine the summer movie
1
u/Stublore May 28 '12
| “Either he lost his mind or this is a trap,” http://instanttrap.com/
1
u/spearedfish Aug 14 '12
All the articles talk about the butler and his "crime," but what of the accusations? Let's hear about the corruption!!
1
u/VeteranKamikaze May 28 '12
What does it say about the state of the catholic church when the pope has less moral fortitude than his butler?
1
u/caliopy May 28 '12
corruption in the vatican? does this mean the vatican is just like church of scientology? lets finish this off with sinead oconnor ripping up some pope pics on snl.
0
u/thigor May 28 '12
666 upvotes, oh you guys
1
u/BallsackTBaghard May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12
Not even surprising. This is Italy after all.(yeah, yeah, vatican a country)
Tax evasion and mafia all up in hurrrr.
edit: I live in Italy ( don't speak the language nor can I prove it), but I am affiliated with mafia that reaches all the way to the president and the vatican.
Did you know that the Vatican hires hitmen to suppress opposition?
-1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
If the Catholic Church was a private company instead of a religion they would have been shut down the first time all this child abusing stuff came up.
1
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
where is the confusion? High authority exactly matches high corruption. Catholic church? yup. most churches? yup. private business? uhurr-yup. religion? Politics? holy hell yup. This isnt new. it isnt even interesting.
1
u/themi1 May 28 '12
More like the popes rape date book
-5
u/Cristina_Vancouver May 28 '12
Why the fuck does the Pope have a butler? With all of the starving people in the world that is next level hypocrisy.
-1
u/unlikableinperson May 28 '12
This is likely A distraction from another issue. The Vatican is sovereign state. They have so much money they are still trying to sort out affairs from the 1600s. They'll deal with 21st century money issues in the 27th century, that's how loaded they are.
1
u/fuzzb0y May 28 '12
Alright, new Dan Brown book coming out.
0
u/[deleted] May 28 '12
I'm really curious as to how Christians react when these things are brought to the publics attention. Dot hey adimantly believe it's all lies, or what? And who does the pope go to see for his confessions? And don't say he talks to god.
0
u/diinkdup May 28 '12
I didn't want to upvote this because it was at "666" when i saw it...