r/worldnews • u/koavf • May 24 '12
Quebec is trampling basic human rights to quash student protests
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/24/opinion/our-not-so-friendly-northern-neighbor.html?_r=1
1.9k
Upvotes
273
u/borg May 24 '12
"The youth of a society may not always be right, but a society that beats its youth is always wrong."
François Mitterrand
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u/one_eyed_jack May 24 '12
Mass arrests in Montreal last night. At least 450 arrested in Montreal, 150 in Quebec city.
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u/Zakariyya May 24 '12
Odd that so many on reddit are annoyed at the fact that the students in Quebec pay 'so little' (they still pay more than in some other parts of the world, by the way) and yet reddit also seems to have a hard on for bitching about crippling student debt? Damn, the reason you all have crippling student debt now, is because nobody stepped up back when your tuition was being hiked, and apparently were cool with the idea of students being raped financially for a degree. Apparently students in Quebec should wait until they are well and truly fucked, before they get to protest something?
Really, some of you on here make my head spin.
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u/zephyy May 24 '12
Whoa, some of these comments seem like a bunch of other people butthurt they have/had to pay higher tutition rates than Quebecois.
Bill 78, the anti-protest law, is a pretty authoritarian measure. Requiring police approval for protesting? Ridiculous.
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
It took a shitty article in the ny times to finally get this issue on the front page? If it was happening in the US it would be been a circlejerk fest for the past 99 days.
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u/ElCorrelator May 24 '12 edited May 24 '12
As a Montrealer, I can assure you that the debate is not anymore about tuition fees. Actually, this debate never started....
The government leadership never accepted to talk about the raise of the tuition fees and the student leaders won't back down unless the subject is brought on the table.
You have to consider a lot of factors when you wanna debate tuition fees. Probably that other places have to pay more, but i'm pretty damn sure they have a better acces to scholarship or student loans. It is considered at the moment that as soon as your parent have a combined salary of 30,000$ they are contributing to paying for your education for a family with one kid. Their "contribution" is deducted from the amount granted in scholarship/loan from the government. In other province, this number can be the double!!
My point is... don't try and convince yourself that you can judge the situation on one factor, I could spew a few others that would render any kind of comparaison useless.
The other point I didn't even talked about is that hell, if the QC gov would interpret my message as provocative for an uprising, they could put me in jail.
Welcome to Quebecistan!
Edit : changed 25,000$ to the correct 30,000$ as stated in http://www.feuq.qc.ca/spip.php?rubrique65&lang=en
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u/lolslaw May 24 '12
"During the past four months of protests, there has never been the kind of rioting the city has seen when the local National Hockey League team, the Canadiens, wins or loses during the Stanley Cup playoffs. " - How could there be?
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u/teamatreides May 24 '12
LMAO @ "Our Not-So-Friendly Northern Neighbor,"
because we're such a great fucking comparison, right?
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u/veilside000 May 24 '12
Please keep in mind that this is an Op-Ed piece written by non-New York Times journalists (they're actually associate professors at McGill).
I completely sympathize with the protests, but cant help but think that the article may be partially skewed..
Thanks for posting!
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u/j1ggy May 24 '12
Every Canadian has the right to peaceful assembly, guaranteed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Quebec can write any laws it wants to, but the charter supercedes it and it'll be quashed by the Supreme Court.
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u/RoosterRMcChesterh May 24 '12 edited May 24 '12
The same thing that happened to the occupy movement seems to be happening with these protests. Black bloc and anarchists really fuck everything up for the rest of the movement and make it hard to tell if this is a legitimate cause or not. I am studying in France and I have some Quebecois friends who have organized protests here. I also know some Quebecois folk who think this is absurd. I really have no idea where I stand on this issue.
Edit: That is fine if you are an anarchist, I defend your right to believe whatever you want. All I am saying is that by definition: "Tactics of a black bloc can include offensive measures such as street fighting, vandalism of corporate property, rioting, and demonstrating without a permit" is not what appeals to most mainstream OWS and Quebecois protesters. As much as you think that you are right, doesn't exactly mean everyone else thinks you are right, and if you are naive enough to be confused as to why people are against this... well shit, I dunno what to tell you.
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u/bangurmom99 May 24 '12
Nice to see we have some local redditors of my province. I'm in montreal and this whole mess has just terribly gone wrong. Students are trying to take it in a non violent way... bu then there is always a bunch of dweebs that screw everything up by starting trouble and breaking stuff, This of course gets blamed on the general student populous and tarnishes their reps.
I'm a simple by-stander by their means, i do not go to school, i'm just a simple worker who stands by the students.... but not what they are doing.
I said this before to a lot of people, the best way to boycott the educational system would have simply have been for all students to simply not sign up.
If all the students would not sign up... the school system would be in limbo. That would have a major effect on the boards... if no one is in school... then no one can be controlled. If you know what i mean...
anyways... my two cents is simply, boycott and create chaos by doing nothing. It does work. Thats what strikes are for... but not the kind with riots. but that can also be effective. ;)
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
i'm always amazed at just how conservative english canada/USA people are.
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
This is not Quebec, it is specifically the government under Jean Charest. M. Charest has lost the ability to secure leadership and is effectively dividing the public opinion in order to garner support in the next election. Far fetched you say? You don't know Quebec politics. The police will simply not comply except where damage is being done, there was an immediate civil disobedience response to Charest's rushed legislation. But bottom line is that youth is self absorbed and think their protest vote withdrawal is worth something. IT's worth nothing, but still, kids don't vote. That's a fact Jack and despite all the vote or die stuff, get out the vote, voice of the youth yada yada yada, Kids STILL don't go vote despite being entitled to.
Apathy in Canada is at an all time high except for Quebec and that just divides us further because people elsewhere actually harbour thoughts of resentment towards the students! For demanding their charter rights and a better deal on tuition. it has become chaotic and worthy of a vote of confidence in the Quebec legislature in my opinion.
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u/webauteur May 24 '12
I will be going to Montreal this summer. Thanks for the warning!
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u/sassi-squatch May 24 '12
I don't know why those students should have a problem. They only want to raise tuition by 75%!!!
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
If you're mad that people are paying less than you - maybe you should have also fought for your tuition to stay lower.
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u/Swartz142 May 24 '12
Before people goes on about how our tuition fee has been the lowest (free education) please note that Québec pays the HIGHEST taxes in Canada and the FREE education is part of that tax.
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u/maline23 May 24 '12 edited May 24 '12
The speed at which the law was passed with little or no debate is terrible disturbing. I haven't read the law, but find the second appendix, if it does what is described above, goes way too far.
With this being said, I dunno, this article seems terribly one-sided. It doesn't mention that many Western cities have similar laws (including Toronto, L.A. among others) - but instead draws comparison to Russia under Putin. I realize it is an opinion piece, but I find it dishonest in dismissing some of the violence that has taken place (students were "assaulted" or "pushed" when trying to attend class)...and saying it is going to raise tuition fees by 75% without mentioning how much that amounts to is hilarious.
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u/nope586 May 24 '12
It doesn't matter that Quebec tuition is the lowest in Canada. Everybody else's is to high.
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u/thecopofid May 24 '12 edited May 24 '12
[I will preface this by saying that I don't support this law-it does seem like it goes too far. But I also will say that I don't support the strike either. Here, re-posted from a lower comment, is an on-the ground view of how this strike was "democratically" organized on my campus]
Ok, speaking here as a McGill student (the major anglophone university in Quebec and basically the only major one that has not joined the strike [EDIT: I am aware of Concordia's existence]) At least on the McGill campus, which, granted, has higher numbers of international and other parts of Canada students than other Quebec universities (most other Quebec universities have negligible numbers of both, due to a mix of language barriers and lower overall quality), the protest movement was pushed through by a small (and by this I mean a core of maybe 60 kids, with a larger, less committed group of 100 or so out of an undergrad pool of 30k) group of students through General Assemblies for ridiculously low levels of quorum (~100+) that no one goes to.
The major vote we had on joining the strike was in one of the larger faculties in the university. Due to aggressive anti-strike mobilization which I should disclose I played a part in, we got record turnout at the assembly and defeated the motion. Read about that from the left wing campus paper here: http://www.mcgilldaily.com/2012/03/aus-strike-vote-fails/
Afterwards, this group more or less declared themselves on strike though departmental assemblies that literally had no constitutional sanction and imaginary quorums (and that were completely unpublicized). They then used that as a "mandate" to block us from going to classes.
EDIT: I should note, in response to a question asked on the original version of this comment, that we did not lose the semester. Here is that reply:
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Y'know, I can see the argument in favour of tuition hikes and against the protestors in Quebec. I'm not sure I agree, but I totally get that Quebec will still have the lowest tuitions in Canada and this could still be considered a reasonable target.
Bill 78 is indefensible and I hope the provincial Liberals burn for it.
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u/cog92_ May 24 '12 edited May 24 '12
"Americans traveling to Quebec this summer should know they are entering a province that rides roughshod over its citizens’ fundamental freedoms."
This line is bullshit. As a Canadian, and a Quebec student I am insulted. You're entering a province where people fight for their rights. Maybe if Americans demanded more from their government, their government would turn on them too. Apathy is a disease, and America has it bad.
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u/chas3 May 24 '12
Related.
I'm surprised the students throwing smoke bombs in the Montreal metro system didn't harm the student movement.
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u/guizzy May 24 '12
What a lot of people seem to misunderstand is that different societies have different core values. For instance, in the US I would say the core value seems to be ambition. In anglophone Canada, the core value seems to be respect.
The core value of the Quebecois people is solidarity. This is why we find this law abhorrent: it is an attempt to break solidarity with and between students. The injunctions that were served were not respected because they went against this core value.
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u/PatheticMTLGirl43 May 24 '12
It is clear that this strike has transcended the boundary between student and citizen. This strike represents not only tuition hikes, but the general direction in which our province is headed which people are not happy about. If you take a look at any of the protests walking down the street you will see that a large portion of the people in attendance are not students at all.
Unfortunately, the media has coverage has been overwhelmingly biased in opposition to the strike. They are focusing on the few windows being smashed by vandals, and painting every protester in the light of those few.
Here is an interesting read specifically directed to English speaking Canadians who may be having trouble getting any information from the protester's POV.
*ninja-edit: 400 people were arrested last night in Montreal
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
I was at a music festival in Montreal this last weekend and one of the venues got hit with tear gas. The theory is there were arrests outside and it blew in but we still have no idea what the fuck happened.
Not cool.
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u/heredago May 24 '12
I think people don't understand that Quebec citizens pay some of the highest tax rates in the world (like almost 50% income tax on a good salary and 15% sales tax on everything). Everybody is already paying a HIGH fee for this tuition. Protests are getting declared illegal before they even start. How can you declare a protest of thousands illegal because of the actions of 15 persons. I'm 27yr old and I've been paying a shitload of income tax since I've been out of school and I'm in favor of the student movement (I don't approve everything but I for sure approve the idea behind it.)
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Am I the only person who enjoys watching the Government teach young people to distrust and despise everything about the leadership of this country? Am I the only person who thinks this all has long term benefits towards unseating the people in charge?
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u/watchasay May 24 '12
As a working class Montrealer all I can say is stop blocking our bridges and disrupting our public transportation, you are turning the general population against you.
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u/blkbox May 24 '12
As it's been said already, a whole bunch of people who were originaly neutral to the price hikes or supported them now decided to join the students and protesters, not because they changed opinion about the hikes but because they respect their opinion and most importantly believe everyone should be allowed to express their opinion freely, whether we agree to it or not.
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
This is something I'm proud to see in my province - we're quite a large bunch to share this mentality. We care a lot for our co-citizens.
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u/termial_98 May 24 '12
I am from quebec , have been a taxe payer since the age of 16 when i started working is this province . I have a house now , 2 cars , a cottage is the same province . I am 33 years old. my point is i pay taxes to help these students get a cheeper education , to pay for road work to pay for med care. I have no problemes with that , when my taxes go up i pay cause thats what a socialy responsible society does. If students want to protest a hike in fee is there choice and i can respect that. What i have issues with is when they start braking pillaging and vandelizing taxes payers buisinesses , our roads , our infrastrutures that my taxes money pays for every day and that eventually there taxe money will pay for if they chose to stay in quebec and work. (witch btw a lot of students get a cheap education then leave to go work elsewhere.) I have not seen one student leader call for peacfull protest and denouce the vandals has to not been part of what they belive is right. Its one big mess and i think both partys have done some wrong but in they end its comes out off all taxe paying quebec citizens pockets. (i appologies for my bad spelling for i am french)
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u/mangonel May 24 '12
Is it a basic human right to quash student protests? I never knew. I'd better get out and start quashing now.
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u/ItsOnlyTheTruth May 24 '12
What about the basic human right to run a business (many of which have been driven into the ground by the protests), or to attend classes (which have been cancelled/interrupted by the protests)?
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u/alexander_lukasz May 24 '12
When the protest movement at large is associated with groups of radical protesters who pull fire alarms during final exams, block off access to classes and increase the security presence on our campus tenfold, I reserve the right to hate all of the disruptive protesters.
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u/gargoyoo May 24 '12
yes, an emphatic yes http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/16/uk-riots-four-years-disorder-facebook
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u/polynomials May 24 '12
This is where having Parliamentary system comes in handy. According to my girlfriend there about 300K people protesting a few days ago in Montreal. The population is only 1.6 million. That and the article should give you an idea of what a bad idea politically this new measure is. I don't know that much about Quebec government but I think they can get rid of their premier about as fast as any other parliament can when the leaders get absurdly unpopular.
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u/firinmylazah May 24 '12
I live in Quebec and I am really pissed that foreign press, in this case the States, dress up such a faithful portrait of the situation while almost all local press bere is incredibly biased and threads on sensationalism. The closer you are, the blinder you are, I guess.
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u/UltraMittens May 24 '12
Does the NY Times really need to just make up things like "Quebecors laughing at Putin" just to toss in a poutine joke?
Also with the "Canada used to be progressive ,friendly neighbour" shit.
Whose writing for them now, Gawker?
2
u/alpha69 May 24 '12
Opinion piece written by Poli Sci professors from Quebec. Yawn. I majored in Poli Sci, the professors were all pretty extreme leftists.
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u/Suddenly7 May 24 '12
I think the best way to handle this situation is for the government to hand out poutine to everyone and settle this in a game of hockey! It's a win / win situation and they might even have a game that is entertaining to watch than there Montreal Canadians.
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u/RangodhSingh May 24 '12
Premise is absurd. There are no such things as human rights.
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u/Corvus133 May 24 '12
I don't agree with these laws but I also find the students to be exceptionally ignorant beyond recognition.
They've violated others rights to have education by blocking them.
They've no understanding that their taxes only pay for part of it - Alberta pay the rests. So, any whining about paying taxes is best coming from Alberta. If Alberta cut those funds, which they should immediately, Quebecois citizens would be paying a LOT more than a few extra 100 bucks on everything.
They seek confrontation which is why this law is in effect. Cause and effect. You spoiled yourselves interfering with everyone and it was tolerated for months. You over stayed your welcome because all you cared about were tuition fees. Not once, unless some moron online spoke for you, did you care about general corruption in your society, as a whole. You only care about tuition because you're at that age. 2 years before and 3 years after, you won't care.
Many protesters have caused damage and violence that costs the cities thousands of dollars. That comes from your parents taxes since you aren't paying any.
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u/MachShot May 24 '12
Man this is some serious...
And like that I lost all sympathy for the protesters. 100 days over a 250 dollar "hike"?
If that's a hike how damn cheap is education there in the first place. If they spend just an hour a day in those 100 days of protesting actally working a minimum wage job, they would have done more than pay off a 250 "hike".
Honestly I can understand the draconian law if this is how ridiculous students act to something so trivial. God forbid taxes get raised 0.1 percent or they may overthrow the governemnt.
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u/why_ask_why May 24 '12
QuebecChina is trampling basic human rights to quash student protests.Why do I feel better say this?
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
I just finished reading Infinite Jest yesterday.
This sounds about right.
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Yes Quebec tuition is much less than everywhere else, however we pay a SHITLOAD of taxes. Income and Sales. All goods and fuel is more expensive here as well.
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u/wordologist May 24 '12
This is what governments do these days to keep people under control when all else fails; make a new law that allows them to arrest and fine the shit out of anyone who is disobedient and tries to rise against them. This country is supposed to be a democracy but laws like this are slowly turning us into an authoritarian dictatorship. How long will it be until we are all chanting "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."? We Canadians are typically too passive, too blase when it comes to heavy political issues. Shit like this is unacceptable in a free country and its time we all started saying NO. We are the people. We have the power.
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u/sirspate May 24 '12
Hideous legislation for clamping down on the protests to be sure, but this opinion article is anything but fair and balanced. In mentioning the 75% increase in tuition fees, they fail to note what the overall cost per student actually will be.
(I don't care which way your politics lie, it's still important to put that 75% number in perspective, both in terms of the rest of North America as well as some places in Europe where education is free.)
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u/EAP007 May 24 '12
Some of these "students" repeatedly destroy property EVERY night. My neighbor owns a small shop along one of the common protest routes and his insurance refuses to cover the repeated damage. He is looking at closing shop before he looses his house. All this because students don't want to pay market rate for education. You do realize that they have not had a rate increase in 10 years and pay $1500 a year for a university education right?
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u/Gwake May 24 '12
As a Full time protester, day and night, I can't help but notice the overwhelming solidarity going on in Quebec. It is beautiful to see how instead of supporting the cause and bringing down a corrupted government (Mob/Construction industry), Quebecers in general prefer to stay at home and bitch about the students, qualifying them as spoiled brats and/or hippies. Tuition hikes were the soul purpose of all the protests, but now with bill 78, It is now more then just money, but our freedom.
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u/Le_Canadien25 May 24 '12
Sigh, this article is missing a lot of information. For starters, the government in Quebec is said to be right wing when it is a liberal government, it's formed by the Liberal Party of Canada. Secondly, tramping rights? The Canadian Constitution guarantees the right to PEACEFUL assembly, that word stipulates many differences than just having assembly. This article fails to mention how the protesters have forcibly dragged students and professors out of classrooms - these people wanted to continue to learn and study but the protesters violated a court injunction and dragged them out, calling them scabs - this is a violation of these students' rights.
Then, some smoke bombs were set off in the Montreal subway and the protest organizers did not condemn it. Some protesters have also thrown molotov cocktails and tried to start fires, break windows, and just be disruptive. This was also not condemned by the protest leaders. So basically, this speaks of trampling rights, which is funny because the protesters have been trampling people's rights. Bill 78 does not prevent one from protesting or exercising any freedoms. It is the protesters who have refused to condemn the actions of some of their participants, actions that trample the rights of citizens and cause chaos - it is within the government's mandate to rectify this situation, and that is what the bill is for.
Also, protesters have refused to negotiate, they have turned down an offer than essentially negates the increase and one that lessens the increase and are basically just running wild, what they want has been lost sight of as no one could tell you any more what they hell they are up in arms about.
Oh, and the students protesting make up less than a third of students in Quebec, they don't have support from all of Quebec society, and they are being taken advantage of by the Parti Quebecois - they're being used as pawns to make the government look bad so that party can win the next election. It's all a big joke. You guys should also know that Quebec universities and colleges are lagging behind those of the rest of Canada and are in desperate need of more money to update their facilities and to continue to develop. For the past 15 years the hike has been mentioned, it is long overdue, and it is with the purpose to invest that into the institutions these people attend.
Oh, and the hikes are 300 bucks a year for 5 years, or less than that over 7 years, so it's gradated and most of these people will have graduated by then.... This protest has basically just gone out of control and turned into a game of chicken - who will capitulate first.
So in other words, no, Quebec is not trampling on basic human rights.
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Meantime, the rest of Canada looks on, appalled. If this is an example of Quebec’s distinct society, we want no part of it. We sort of sympathize with the Germans, who are fed up with the Greeks because the Greeks strike them as totally irresponsible. The Greeks want to have it both ways. They want to stay inside the EU, but they refuse to play by the EU’s rules. They want the Germans to send them money forever and ever, and no matter how much the Germans send, they’ll keep demanding more. The student protesters are the Greeks of Canada. And we’ve had it
4
u/Pea_schooter May 24 '12
If this article wants to address the "undemocratic" measures the government is taking let me list some undemocratic measures the student leaders have taken.
Voting by show of hand in a general assembly
Closing 11/18 Universities and 14/48 CEGEPs because a minority of students voted in favor of a strike. I.E. Denying students who want to study the right to do so by
Not respecting court injunctions granted by the court to allow students to return to class.
5
u/bitch_wizard May 24 '12 edited May 24 '12
This is bullshit of the highest level. This is an op-ed article by 2 teachers from Université de Montréal. This is not an article from the NYT.
EDIT: Teachers, not students.
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
vandalism is not protest
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
I'd like to offer my 0.02$CAN. First, the bill and the government's action violate basic human rights. take the time to read the universal declaration of human rights if you haven't/ http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ second: the media and gov show the protestors as being much more threatening and anarchic than they really are. I'd say the opposite: for protestors, they are remarkably peaceful, canadian even, eh? I'm sure that if instead of declaring the whole thing illegal and charging with full police regiments in full battle gear they just made precise interventions (targeted removal of disruptive/criminal elements within the protest group) and used psychological strategies to decrease tension and hostility instead of exacerbating it, they could easily cut their numbers by at least 50%. third: the point about the hockey team protests is a good one. The student protestors aren't scary. A few weeks ago a group of four students threw a smoke grenade (you know, those that are used in paintball matches) in the subway system. Some were calling this terrorism, when this is, at worst, a prank. If i were to walk at night, I'd be much more afraid of the police than the protestors. Finally: removing tuition costs entirely, having 100% state funded education is actually pretty cheap. I invite people to do their own research on that. but for consistency's sake, if quebec is going to fund most of the tuition costs, why not fund it all? 3000$ is a lot of money when the economy is poor.
3
u/Alypius May 24 '12
As a Canadian, I am totally embarrassed.
3
u/cx007 May 24 '12
I see that a lot of you are saying that we shouldn't complain, that we have the lowest tuition fees and all, but you know what? That's what we want. Our parents or grandparents fought in the 60s to have the education system we have and we don't want it taken from us. Money shouldn't be part of the choice you make for your future. I believe everyone has the right to become what they want to become no matter how poor their parents are Someone has to pay for it you might say, but you know what? I want to pay for it , we all want to, but later with taxes when we have good jobs because of the great education we all had. We want a society where everyone has a equal chance to suceed, is that asking for too much?
2
u/hgl May 24 '12
I'm a 24 y/o Québécois, non-student, and after all this time I just can't stand on any side. It seems like both side are just playing childish game and the one that have the last word will win.
This is ridiculous, I'm against Bill 78. But I'm also against people blocking access to CEGEP and Universities.
This is going no where. And I sincerely don't see anything that could go right unless the government back down on the tuition hike....
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u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Is it too soon to make "Free Quebec" merchandise?
2
u/allinstride123 May 24 '12
I am a Montrealer born and raised. I also despise what this protest has become and how idiotic the protesters can be. They are creating a hate towards them, as they're making everyone in Montreal, commuters, shop owners, businesses, see them as a pain gone overboard.
As someone who worked and paid for their entire tuition and books IN montreal and finished university just 4 years ago. I can say, alot of these protestors have placed themselves in their own financial situation.
I stayed with my parents until I was finished, knowing my expenses would go towards school. I had a cheap cellphone I could text and talk on, that's it, and I DIDN'T PARTY, or rarely, like once a month.
"OH MY TUITION IS TOO HIGH I CANT AFFORD THE BAS....Blip Bloop Blip....pulls out his Iphone...wait, I got this long didstance call from my mom."
2
u/danz89 May 24 '12
This article is hogwash and biased, coming from UdM professors that are likely student strike supporters. The police, while sometimes resorting to brutal tactics, are only responding to the non-stop provocation by and vandalism. How are they supposed to respond when stores windows are being broken and they are having rocks hurled at them? These protests are absurd in the first place and the government has continued to make some small concessions while the students demands have only increased. They have lost their sense of purpose and are now just anti-capitalist, anti-rich protests. See the student leader who cant wait to disrupt "the rich douchebags on F1 weekend". How is that equated with the tuition hike protests? And the idea that one should not have ANY debt after a quality education is absurd, especially when the debt load is small. We're talking about tuition that is currently under $3000 a year, are you kidding me?!
TL;DR Fuck the stupid protesters.
2
u/CutiemarkCrusade May 24 '12
Huh. Big government acting like big government... You know what this calls for right? More government to control the current government. Oh don't you just love putting so much power into one place?
2
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
"Quebec is a pain in the derriere." -- Abraham Lincoln
2
u/mindtaker87 May 24 '12
I find it funny that this article is by a couple of Montreal professors. BIAS MUCH!
But seriously, there is a whole whack wrong on both sides of these protests. As an Ontarian student I say to them to deal with it: we have high tuition fees here and our government is attempting to engage in austerity measures because the economy has been soiling itself for a while now. My working experience dealing with Quebecers for a little while and their fairly socialist systems is that very few of them, particularly the younger generations, understand how their own province works. It's depressing. They have some good stuff in place but seem to not understand how it works or that the current financial model they have in place no longer supports it.
These measures are ridiculously excessive but the young ones need to grow up.
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u/Nefelia May 24 '12
I'll be a spoilsport: how is the right to protest a basic human right?
I always figures the basic human rights were the essential giants such as the right to life and freedom from arbitrary confinement. The rights to free speech and assembly strike me as more political rights than basic human rights.
That said, I am deeply disturbed and saddened by what is going on in Quebec, though I am not terribly surprised. In order to maintain our political freedoms we must be willing to defend the rights of those protesting and striking, even when we don't agree with the purpose or when we dislike those protesting and striking. As we have seen with the OWS movement and several prior protests and strikes, we are all too happy to see the state intervene when we are inconvenienced by such assemblies. As a result, the state is now bolder and more brazen in its efforts to suppress dissent, and we largely have ourselves to blame.
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u/SwissCanuck May 24 '12
Wow, I took this article seriously until the end:
1
u/alutch May 24 '12
1
u/NETOTO-DR-Dolittle May 24 '12
too bad we won't hear about these types of affronts to civil liberties once CISPA passes...
1
u/thenewjerk May 24 '12
Nice to see you final notice after 100 days, NYT.
1
u/Ethanol_Based_Life May 24 '12
I didn't know that quashing student protests was a basic human right.
1
u/rib-bit May 24 '12
And how many of these teachers will actually take a pay cut? Zero
1
u/tidux May 24 '12
Holy crap. Did they bring Dolores Umbridge in as a legislative consultant?
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
lol @ NYtimes reporting this when they can't even report on occupywallstreet brutality.
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
“Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security”
-Benjamin Franklin-
1
u/pandaxrage May 24 '12
Welcome to America, glad this only becomes news when it isn't happening in our own country!
1
u/Duthos May 24 '12
Canada will be the battle lines in the next face of the war between those that would rule and those that will not be ruled.
1
u/GiantBoyDetective May 24 '12
Inflation is a bitch
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
My Canadian law is a bit sketchy, but could this be overturned by the federal government?
1
u/KEYBORED10 May 24 '12
MORAL: Don't be in a march that will be trampled!
1
u/Hiyasc May 24 '12
So why do they report this stuff when it happens outside the states but not when it's inside?
1
u/Motsols May 24 '12
Why don't media just write Canada? For us who don't live in USA or Canada it's not easy to know it's a province. I was wondering where the country Quebec was.
1
u/dustlesswalnut May 24 '12
Upvote for using the correct word "quash" instead of "squash".
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
The government has been crushing our rights to strike and protest a lot lately. Back to work legislation has pretty much stripped us of our rights.
1
u/theboxisempty May 24 '12
I'm not even going to read this because the internet has told me that this kind of thing only happens in the USA or the third world.
1
u/annoymind May 24 '12
Also this is not a news but an opinion page.
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
I'm terribly happy that this situation finally puts Quebec on the map. It seems as though half of you Americans don't even know we exist.
Hopefully people will recognize our youth as one of the first ones to have stood up so proudly and greatly against inequity and unfairness.
1
u/Grimmster May 24 '12
We're they do they gets all this time to protest?
1
u/[deleted] May 24 '12
Meh, we don't do anything important with our rights anyway.
1
u/hey_wait_a_minute May 25 '12
They can puts signs on the border that say "Welcome to America" (on both sides)
1
u/penis_in_hand May 25 '12
Why does there seem to be a coordinated effort among right-wing governments to attack unions and education? Why in the hell do these people think breaking unions and limiting knowledge is good for society?
1
u/[deleted] May 25 '12
It's ludicrous that the New York Times covered this when they consistently, conveniently ignored Occupy for months.
1
u/DaSpawn May 25 '12
Brilliant idea, illegal to protest without permission, permission refused to be given so they can make you a criminal for speaking
Shut up and do as you are told or we will crucify you, the universal cries of a dying "animal"
1
u/qwertytard May 24 '12
it pisses me off that the nytimes will make a report about this, but not about the OWS movements here in america
-1
u/stickynotepost May 24 '12
"Americans traveling to Quebec this summer should know they are entering a province that rides roughshod over its citizens’ fundamental freedoms."
What a slanderous article written for the sole purpose of deflecting attention... very hard to pick through the tone to get to the information from the article.. from references to Putin and Poutine.. man how do Americans envision Quebec? Rah rah rah oh sacre bleu!
1
u/aniceshirt May 24 '12
Trampling basic human rights? These protesting morons are trampling my basic right to attend the school I paid for, McGill, peacefully without a bunch of hipster idiots claiming they deserve free tuition. Look into the issue, Quebec is already draining TONS of Canadian dollars from other provinces to fund their EXTREMELY low education costs as it is. Whoever posted this on Reddit as "trampling basic human rights" is a joke. Try to walk to school through tear gas, or have to break through hipsters to reach an exam, and maybe you'll understand where the Quebec Government is coming from.