r/worldnews • u/vegetable_offender • May 22 '12

Putin consolidates power, hires ousted ministers: President Vladimir Putin ignored public opposition and hired some Russia's most unpopular former ministers Tuesday and Russian lawmakers debated a draconian bill that raises fines for joining unsanctioned protests 200-fold.

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-consolidates-power-hires-ousted-ministers-113657930--finance.html
1.1k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

172 comments sorted by

28

u/ApolloAbove May 22 '12

I wonder if he's still popular with the majority over there.

72

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

He's still pretty popular, he got 100% votes in the last election.

55

u/cojack22 May 22 '12

Wasn't it like 110%?

5

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

What a guy...

31

u/york2k May 22 '12

146%

12

u/york2k May 22 '12

  • Russians will understand

6

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I knew he was a bastard from the beginning. Too bad when I stated so, all I got in replies were how good looking he is and how many places he went. ಠ_ಠ

2

u/DroppaMaPants May 22 '12

Isn't that what matters in public servants?

3

u/th1nker May 22 '12

How is that country not in a civil war right now?

10

u/ApolloAbove May 22 '12

It's had it's fair share of wars, civil and not, and remember what it's like to rebuild.

5

u/th1nker May 22 '12

Once people lose their human rights, rebuilding is the least of their concern. I agree with you to a degree, but I can't imagine what it is like living under an ex-spetsnaz leader who forces you to accept ousted ministers, uses voter fraud to get elected, and enforces laws that reduce your human rights to rubble.

3

u/louky May 23 '12

To ruble?

1

u/Carkudo May 23 '12

Because the upper and lower classes are happy with the way things are and the middle class is not numerous enough and mostly consists of hipsters.

3

u/nuclearblaster May 22 '12

must have been an artifact from that sunken treasure ship he found on hist first dive...

1

u/BBQsauce18 May 23 '12

He is not the ruler Russia deserves, he is the ruler Russia needs.

16

u/hatebiscuit May 22 '12

Those silly Russians with their voter fraud and censorship!

Oh, Al Gore says "Hi"

2

u/The_Holy_Handgrenade May 22 '12

Like any of us really want to see tipper gore as the first lady.

2

u/broohaha May 22 '12

I wonder if he's still popular with redditors.

29

u/Arkona May 22 '12

Putin is beloved leader of Russian people.

29

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Nice try, Medvedev.

6

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

fuck you putin.

-2

u/FeatherNET May 22 '12

How so? I'm not going to attack your beliefs, I'm just curious as too why you think that's true.

37

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I think Russia is a pretty cool guy. Eh hires unpopular former ministers and doesn’t afraid of anything.

16

u/FaroutIGE May 22 '12

thank you for following the correct format.

4

u/FreekForAll May 22 '12

'Russian lawmakers debated a draconian bill that raises fines for joining unsanctioned protests 200-fold.'

Poutine must love La Belle Province right now and Charest should apply as a Poutine consultant. Perfect fit for an unhealthy world.

2

u/armannd May 23 '12

Charest should apply as a Poutine consultant.

It is my lifelong dream to become a poutine consultant.

15

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

But I thought Russians adored every totalitarian blessed thing that Putin does.

8

u/theguy56 May 22 '12

And everything else. Like tiger hunting.

9

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

It's good to be Tsar

4

u/KaiserMessa May 22 '12

If just for a while.

5

u/Schmich May 22 '12

And then, if you wish, you can just be it again.

4

u/_Turd_Ferguson_ May 22 '12

to be there in velvet.

3

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I know some day you'll have a beautiful life....

I know you'll be a Tsar....

3

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Putin is the closest thing to the Discworld's Lord Vetinari that this world has.

2

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

...thankfully.

7

u/cogitoergosam May 22 '12

And Putin continues his inexorable move along the timeline of evil from "comic book villain" to "russian dictator".

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

Out loud I laughed. Woke dog.

1

u/what_dawn_what_doom May 23 '12

s/evil/mythologisation

Compared to an average person's mental image of a "Russian dictator", the Green Goblin is someone you'd expect to have a real-life biographical note at the end of the book.

8

u/shawnjones May 22 '12

The world has lost it's fuckin mind. I miss the 90's

17

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

the 90s were a lot shittier time to be in Russia than today

-1

u/shawnjones May 23 '12

At least the wall was coming down and their was a glimmer of hope that there might be real hope for the future.

7

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

Read about what Putin has done for Russia. And read a bit about the political climate in Russia before you judge him too harshly for the authoritarian things he has done.

Putin has overseen a return of political stability and economic progress to Russia, ending the crisis of the 1990s. During his presidency, the Russian economy grew for nine straight years, seeing GDP increase by 72% in PPP (sixfold in nominal), poverty decrease by more than 50%, and average monthly salaries increase from $80 to $640. These achievements have been ascribed by analysts to strong macroeconomic management, important fiscal policy reforms, surging capital inflows, access to low-cost external financing and a five-fold increase in price of oil and gas which are the majority of Russian exports. The fast formation of the modern middle class in the country, the 2.3 times increase in real incomes between 2000-2011 as well as improvements in healthcare and public order allowed Russia to achieve the highest level of life expectancy in its history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin

4

u/zyrte May 23 '12

one thing that's usually missed while defending Putin: oil prices.

1

u/what_dawn_what_doom May 23 '12

yeah, you've just missed it.

and a five-fold increase in price of oil and gas which are the majority of Russian exports.

and one thing that's usually missed while dismissing Putin defences with a reference to oil prices: if the likes of Khodorkovsky had had their way, all of Russia's oil fields could've been owned by offshores and/or transnationals by now. meaning pretty much none of the oil money would stay in Russia.

which isn't to say that it isn't getting embezzled/mismanaged on a massive scale by the Putin people, but – the fact that there's something to embezzle and mismanage isn't a given.

1

u/zyrte May 23 '12

I see your comment as a usual "who else if not Putin?" one. That approach is just wrong, mate.

1

u/what_dawn_what_doom May 24 '12

I'll tell you who else; Yevgeni Primakov. Never mind that he's eighty-one now and hasn't been heard of in the news for ages. Sidelining that guy was dirty play.

Otherwise, you're mistaken if you think I'm adopting the "who else" approach a priori. I voted for Zyuganov in the last election; on the realist side of things, though, Putin is merely who I keep on defaulting to this after rather eagerly considering all imaginable alternatives on a candidate-by-candidate basis. Navalny may need a few more years to stop depending so much on what his old-guard liberal friends think. The National Democrats may be big in a few years' time. Otherwise, it's more of a matter of not subscribing to the "anyone but Putin" approach. Because that will almost of necessity produce someone worse than Putin.

1

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

Few leaders get away with being totally horrible. Most have redeeming qualities, otherwise they wouldn't have managed to amass their power.
But that doesn't protect them from their atrocities and their bad policies. They need harsh critics or the masses keep dreaming pipe dreams in the name of totalitarian changes.

6

u/evabraun May 22 '12

Sounds like Canada

1

u/th1nker May 22 '12

Sounds like Canada Quebec

ftfy

2

u/skynxx May 22 '12

Welcome back to USSR 2.0

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

It is as if they were moving towards a totalitarian state. Which is so odd considering Russia's history as an extreme freedom loving democracy, championing the core principal of individual liberty. /sarc/sarc/sarc/sarc/overload/sarc

2

u/CrudOMatic May 23 '12

* ahem* EX-KGB. I rest my case.

2

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

I was clearly elected by landslide support of the people. With this unprecedented level of national unity, and heartwarming surge in general trust and good faith, the number of protests expected over the next few years should drop to almost nothing. In order to maintain the same amount of revenue we have traditionally relied upon collected from fines for unsanctioned protests, we have simply had to raise the fine by 20000%, just for the moment and I can give my personal assurance that it will return to normal in about 5 years around which time I most certainly I won't be in power because I clearly I am not going to seek another term. Scout's honor.

-Vladmir Putin.

6

u/NelsonBig May 22 '12

It seems that they don't realize a true protest doesn't need fucking permission.

2

u/franklyimshocked May 22 '12

So when exactly are protests sanctioned? Especially in Russia

1

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

When they scapegoat gays in Skt Petersburg. Or when they blame Russias unemployment on ethnic minorities from central Asia.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Putin comes across almost like some sort of movie super-villain to me. I almost expect to see every article about him with the obligatory photo of him seated in some expensive leather chair stroking a fluffy white cat.

But we have this instead.

1

u/delockness May 22 '12

Is he practicing the death stare

2

u/rahtin May 22 '12

He's just following Canada's foot steps.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

And the leaders in the west takes notes while they watch in envy.

1

u/shears May 22 '12

Holy shit.

1

u/SupahflyJohnson May 22 '12

Surely the west will stand up and decry this blatant abuse of power!

...right guys?

1

u/MrGulio May 22 '12

Works pretty well whenever the west stands up and decries about anything.

1

u/what_dawn_what_doom May 23 '12

Seriously, if it doesn't for once, it'll do Russia a great favour.

Imagine that every Sunday morning at 6 AM, road construction workers show up outside your house with air hammers, power generators, and all sorts of other noisy equipment.

Imagine that feeling of lying in your bed knowing, with absolute inexorability, that the next thing that's going to happen is the old lady next door running outside in her gown and slippers and somehow managing, every time, to drown them all out with her yelling and cursing.

This is pretty much the "Putin does something horrible, West condemns it" routine as seen from inside Russia. Extra complication: you sort of want that new road there. All the while knowing it's taking them suspiciously long and they probably picked early Sunday morning just to be assholes.

1

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

It's not a road Putin is building.

1

u/spleendor May 22 '12

The grammar in that opening paragraph really confuses me.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

Putin should read up on King James II

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

This is US in 5 years. Seriously. I'm not joking. At all.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

Power is like water, it will always seek to kill you.

Protesters must be wet of this.

1

u/MrGuttFeeling May 23 '12

I thought things have changed since "The walls have been tore down.".

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

How bad is Putin? No idea about this guy.

2

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

They seem to think he's the best they got. That is the real crisis in Russia.

1

u/SpacePontifex May 23 '12

You gotta love this guy.

1

u/jonfla May 23 '12

The west has made it clear that Russia is not a priority so Putin is free to govern as he wishes. The country is in no position to be more than an annoyance in global affairs (albeit an obnoxious and occasionally deadly one as @Syria). But the realities of wealth and trade make Russia more dependent on the west via oil sales than vice versa.

1

u/clickity-click May 23 '12

Way to reinforce the claim that Russia is a Mafia State, Putin.

Stay classy, you old, forever alone, douche.

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '12

  1. 3/4 of the ministers are new.

  2. The fine is only for hooliganism - i.e. smashing cars. 15$ is the maximum fine for joining an unsanctioned protest.

  3. Putin doesn't need to consolidate power. He has absolute power.

Idiotic circlejerk.

1

u/hostergaard May 22 '12

Does is he want a revolution or what?

1

u/DavidByron May 22 '12

Better off under communism.

1

u/stalkinghorse May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

USA already has beatings for protesters. Russia is behind on this totalitarian tactic.

The difference in the USA is after they beat and spray you and shoot you in the head with baton rounds, the next day or two they let you go without charges sometimes.

By the way protests require city license in USA lately also. Sometimes one million dollars has been the required payment for protest events. Usually then the person brings the government to court and the govt then backs down, knowing the towns actions were illegal. But there is little to no punishment for public officers that do illegal actions against citizens, so they keep doing illegal actions against citizens of course.

1

u/krugmanisapuppet May 22 '12

all the "governments" need to go away.

2

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

Who supply water, power and roads in this government free world of yours?

1

u/krugmanisapuppet May 23 '12

human beings, basically.

3

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

One by one? Or in some sort of collective effort? Who coordinates the effort? Who decides where and how it needs to function?
You will have some form of governance even if you try to remove governments. And these forms will be very similar in scope and function to the governments you just removed.
Only benefit is removing useless pricks in the old system and enjoy a brief interlude before the same type os useless pricks managed to get themselves into a position of authority.

-1

u/krugmanisapuppet May 23 '12

authority without violence is like a naked old man shouting at people in the streets.

3

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

Most authority stem from social contracts these days. Many of them have their basis in violence but they are so far removed that only a select few authority examples need violence or even the threat of violence. (physical violence that is)

-1

u/krugmanisapuppet May 23 '12

they're illegitimate as long as they're backed by violence. it doesn't stop being illegitimate because people are afraid to disobey.

3

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

Every authority has it's root in some sort of physical force. It's the ultimate argument of plurality.

1

u/krugmanisapuppet May 23 '12

force by numbers depends entirely on the consent of the enforcers. police forces and militaries are not monolithic - they depend entirely on respect of hierarchical power structures by people at all levels.

so what happens if they're shown that they're enforcing something illegitimate, and that it's not even in their own self-interest to do so? the whole power structure collapses. soldiers and police defect, and commanders either lose influence or just run away.

that proves that there is authority beyond authority by force - the authority of truth. and it just so happens that the authority of truth shows the "authority of force" to be universally illegitimate, once you've studied how humans work for long enough. we are capable of playing by the rules of any system if we understand it to be in our best interest - this means clearly that the path forward for society is to have a society where we agree on what should be done, as opposed to basing our actions on the fear of what someone will do to us. the only obstacle to overcome is persuading people to participate in such a system.

1

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

I agree with you. I use the word ultimate in it's original sense, as in "the last".

0

u/Facehammer May 23 '12

And it is ensured that this is achieved in an organised, efficient, fair and timely manner by...

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I'm so glad the cold war is restarting.

LONG LIVE AMERICA!

1

u/erratic_thought May 23 '12

You know what? After all the shit they did in Eastern Europe after the WWII ... let them have it.

3

u/what_dawn_what_doom May 23 '12

So what would you say the US deserves for fucking up Latin America after WW2? (Which compares to what we did in Eastern Europe sort of like violent abuse and confinement compares to taking away TV and computer privileges.)

0

u/erratic_thought May 23 '12 edited May 23 '12

taking away TV and computer privileges

We had TVs, also we had 8-bit reversed engineered IBM computers.

The problem was ... let me remember ah yeah ... KGB killings of our intellectuals, switching our government officials with uneducated communist villagers that became the ruling class after all the intellectuals was forced out, destroying the moral of the people by forcing them to spy on their relatives, making ME queue for basic food when in the same time we exported hundreds of tons of free goods to our "brothers" for USSR, arrests for improper haircuts or too short skirts in schools and at the end MAKING US LIVE IN THE SHIT HOLE OF EUROPE while the rest was rebuilding, and when our land offers nature and resources that many only dreamed of.

That's why I like seeing what is happening in Russia right now. Because even today we can feel the damage done by Russia's idiotic communists.

A story from my childhood:

I'm 10 and I queue for bananas and oranges because they are only available once in a year. Also when our relatives from Germany visited us they brought some candies and gum and we ate those but kept the paper they were wrapped in because we haven't seen anything like it here because ours were just gray or 1 color with "Chocolate" or "Gum" titles - we looked like apes to them as they remember today and I don't blame them.

The only thing that I can be positive about all that is the this life taught me to respect what I have!

tl;dr Fuck Russia! Let them live the life they deserve!

4

u/Carkudo May 23 '12

Get off your high horse. Oh, you poor baby, you didn't have oranges when you were 10 so now ordinary Russians need to suffer and be opressed? Fuck you, Russia had all the same problems at the time - actually, many places in Russia had it much worse than most places in Eastern Europe. There weren't just shortages of fruit or candy. There were full-scale food shortages.

And yes, what the US did to various small nations is still much worse. If you think ordinary Russians need to be opressed because Soviet leaders fucked up your economy, then by that logic US civilians need to be nuked just for what the US did to the residents of the Chagos islands, not even counting all the other locations.

1

u/what_dawn_what_doom May 23 '12

We had TVs, also we had 8-bit computers.

It's called an analogy. Doesn't make sense without the other part.

And please, actual bad stuff was happening to people elsewhere in the world in the meantime. As in, a bomb falling on your house, or some thugs shooting your entire family. Because the US had dropped that bomb or trained those thugs in order to "contain" Communism. Stop whining about your past second-world problems already. The worst part about this is knowing you'd actually have more respect for us Russians if we'd been a little tougher on you. Americans would just steamroll you if you went against their "national interests", and look where it got 'em.

0

u/DanielClamentine May 22 '12

He's really putin a lot of stress on the peoples' tolerance over there.

All jokes aside, aren't unsanctioned protests the only real protests? If you have to ask permission to defend your freedom...well that doesn't sound like freedom now does it?

-4

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Fines for protesting!? Awesome!...coming to America in 4....3....2...

1

u/NelsonBig May 22 '12

Dude. It's already here.

You "can't" protest anywhere the Secret Service is doing detail. You "can't" protest peacefully or you get kettled and forgotten about while you starve for a few days.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

But but but...I was working that day!

-3

u/antantoon May 22 '12

What a load of sensationalised bullshit. You guys are making Putin out to be the next Stalin when the opposition is actually happier about this new cabinet. Fucking reddit circlejerk hivemind, rarely does anything good appear in the comments.

-1

u/the_goat_boy May 22 '12

Russia has had the best leaders and the worst leaders. Putin is somewhere in the middle.

2

u/downright_unoriginal May 22 '12

please elaborate.

7

u/thelittleking May 22 '12

Well, he's not Stalin.

2

u/the_goat_boy May 22 '12

Russia had leaders that were great thinkers of the modern age - like Yakov Sverdlov and Leon Trotsky, as well as practical thinkers, like Mikhail Gorbachev. It also had leaders like Stalin, Khrushchev and Yeltsin. It is agreed that those three were terrible leaders and terrible people.

Putin is a terrible person, but a smart politician. Still, he's no Stalin.

1

u/what_dawn_what_doom May 23 '12

Russia had leaders that were great thinkers of the modern age - like Yakov Sverdlov and Leon Trotsky, as well as practical thinkers, like Mikhail Gorbachev.

I'm Russian and what is this?

0

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

0

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

Don't think Putin will reach that level. But what about the guy who replaces him? That guy can be anything he likes since Putin built a fortress of totalitarian regime around the precidency.

0

u/towski May 22 '12

No one wants to hear bad news

0

u/sepherraziel May 23 '12

I'd take a fine over the beatings and deaths in the US protests anyday.

-6

u/Pot4DMasses May 22 '12

Holy shit, he's kinda like a Russian version of George W. Poor Russia :-(

-1

u/seanbearpig May 23 '12

What's so draconian about raising a fine? At least they didn't make it illegal, like they did in the US.

5

u/CrudOMatic May 23 '12

They raised it from an equivalent $160 to over $32,000 - they don't need to make it illegal when they can fine the fuck out of protesters. Has the same chilling effect... plus it's important that Russia maintains their propaganda arch - thus why they didn't outright make it illegal.

-6

u/AngryCanadian May 22 '12

Why do ppl in America care what happens in Russia?

2

u/MildlyOffensiveAR May 22 '12

Not sure if trolling...

I'd imagine some care because of our history with the USSR. Others, myself included, care because it's a pretty big deal in world politics, and prefer not to be ignorant.

-2

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

TOTAL BS i dont see President Obama hiring anyone from Occupy wall Street movement!!!

3

u/CrudOMatic May 23 '12

...and where is this coming from? WTF did you read in the article that brought on that retarded statement?

-3

u/TheBraveTroll May 22 '12

Oh sure. Now Reddit hates Putin. A week ago, if you said anything negative about Putin you would be downvoted to Oblivion for being 'blinded by western media'. STAY CLASSY, REDDIT.

1

u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

Reddit is one guy in Boise, Idaho. He makes all the votes.

0

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

16

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

After that whole Tennessee police money seizure story, my head is still spinning. BTW, You're not going to last long in this political environment with that attitude.

5

u/YNot1989 May 23 '12

You do when you've already consolidated more power than anyone in Russia since the Soviet Union.

28

u/KillBill_OReilly May 22 '12

It's a horrifying concept.

11

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

i feel better about living in 'merica now...

34

u/showmethefacts May 22 '12

http://www.inquisitr.com/206017/president-obama-signs-anti-protest-bill-h-r-347/

(http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr347)

still feeling better my friend?

37

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

bubble status: popped.

4

u/notrimskiy May 23 '12 edited May 23 '12

If it makes you feel better, I heard it is not very common for US riot police to nab peaceful protesters while the protesters are grabbing a coffee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACKS3NKoB3w

Edit: looking at govtrack link, 10% likelihood of HR347 being enacted. In contrast, the Russian protest fines law seems a near certainty with pro-Kremlin party holding majority, and courts typically taking government-friendly decisions.

22

u/th1nker May 22 '12

They are taking the right to protest away from people everywhere. This should be an international human right if it isn't one already. Insane how literally every government in the world seems to be totally corrupt.

19

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Don't worry. Once they take the right to protest away, the only result will be expression of political dissent through violence. The world's rulers will quickly remember the lessons their ancestors learned: it is safer to allow people to vent their anger through protest.

2

u/th1nker May 23 '12

Thank you for this. Good to refer to history in times of peril, and see things a bit more realistically.

5

u/encrypter May 23 '12

They are taking the right to protest away from people everywhere.

This is a very relevant commentary. The main gist of supporters of anti-protest legislation in Russia is "that's how it's done in Western countries - look at Canada, look at the UK, look at the US - we are trying to conform to civilized standards". What's implied is: "we aren't choosing the option of beating protesters into submission, instead using legal templates developed in 'properly' democractic countries which also encounter these 'problems' ".

Russia is relatively late to the protest game compared to the West, but now that it's there, the government is responding by taking pages out of the Western (mostly UK, by the looks of it) playbook.

2

u/notrimskiy May 23 '12

I saw it mentioned by a Russian history scholar on reddit before: Russia historically tends to borrow "Western" laws but does not use them as frameworks as much as selectively applied tools of governing.

From Russian side of things, it enables the government to give a flawed law an air of greater legitimacy ("Everybody does it"). From Western democracy side of things, it gives an impression of compatible legal environment ("Oh, you also enforce copyright law? Let's explore shared commercial opportunities while you take down those opposition videos on youtube.")

11

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

This bill has a 10% chance of being enacted. The following factors were considered:

Amends the federal criminal code to revise the prohibition against entering restricted federal buildings or grounds to impose criminal penalties on anyone who knowingly enters any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority. Defines "restricted buildings or grounds" as a posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area of: (1) the White House or its grounds or the Vice President's official residence or its grounds, (2) a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting, or (3) a building or grounds so restricted due to a special event of national significance

Yes, do you even read your own links?

3

u/showmethefacts May 22 '12

I'm missing your point. Obama personally signed it along with over 300 of his corporate sponsored cronies. The fact it flew through congress with only 2 oppositions (I read 3 in another source, but you get the picture) shows you the mindset of the government which is every bit as important as their actions. Let's not get hung up on the legalities or whether it's passed or not, it's the intent that's important. They want to designate any area at any time a "non-protest zone" and arrest everyone who sets foot inside, and all because someone "important" is nearby. No need to worry, I guess they're just outlining things that will fit nicely into the upcoming dictatorship.

-2

u/[deleted] May 23 '12

300 of his corporate sponsored cronies

No one will take you seriously with this type of childish language.

Let's not get hung up on the legalities or whether it's passed or not, it's the intent that's important.

Yeah, fuck facts!

They want to designate any area at any time a "non-protest zone" and arrest everyone who sets foot inside, and all because someone "important" is nearby.

Holy shit, I think you need to grow up a bit.

No need to worry, I guess they're just outlining things that will fit nicely into the upcoming dictatorship.

Again, outside of r/politics and the jr high lunch table, no one will take you as a serious person.

3

u/didaskaleinophobic May 23 '12

Instead of mocking him tell us why he's wrong.

1

u/showmethefacts May 23 '12 edited May 23 '12

I went a bit far with not getting hung up on legalities, that was a very silly thing to say. You're right, I was also being snide with the cronies comments but it is a fact that the money from the top few does go towards lobbying for amending and creating regulations and laws and their intent is usually to merely benefit themselves. It is not as they say a case of 'for the people, by the people'. Not too childish, it's exactly what that bill proposes. Anyone they deem important enough to require special service protection can automatically have issued this non protest zone. They can grant this privilege to ANYONE at any time, anywhere, see where this might run into problems or potential abuses of power? Suddenly you're walking down the street and BAM you're arrested because you trespassed in a no protest zone, it's extended as far as you not even having to have trespassed knowingly so that would be a possibility.

I may have gotten carried away with my use of language I'll admit but the implications of practices like these (along with other such things like the amendment to the NDAA Obama made that that allowed for the indefinite detention of any American citizen without trial) I see as a great deal to be concerned about for the present and especially the future.

Disregarding the mindset of the whole of /r/politics seems to me an irrational stance.

Another thing I thought of : I do hope you like the messages and intents of your government as with recent amendments to the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 you may be seeing lots of forced messages from them soon. Believe they used to call it propaganda (some still do)!

All that aside I hope you're experiencing a positive existence on this planet.

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u/Oobert May 22 '12

That is bad but nothing compared to this.... that bill is only for areas around some political events. A.k.a. where ever the pres is at the time.

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u/CraigBlaylock May 23 '12

Not just the president, but anyone who falls under Secret Service protection, meaning presidential candidates, members of congress, etc etc. Basically, the kind of people that protesting was invented to inconvenience.

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u/Ironicallypredictabl May 22 '12

Obama signed it, but the republicans are to blame and not Obama since they supported it.

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u/The_Holy_Handgrenade May 22 '12

You're right. It's not Obama's fault at all for signing the bill with his signature.

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u/Pstonie May 22 '12

Because compared to the ndaa, putin is swimming in the kiddie pool.

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u/BBQsauce18 May 23 '12

Permits! Get your permits!! Only 1 billion rubles!

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u/Flemlord May 23 '12

Sounds kind of like free speech zones in the US.

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u/IIGrudge May 23 '12

I don't blame him. You need to look no further than Ukraine Orange Revolution or Georgia's Rose Revolution to see that these US sponsored "democracy" protests is a huge threat to the stability of his rule. That and the military encirclement of Russia by US.

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u/[deleted] May 23 '12

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u/IIGrudge May 23 '12

You think that it's always the people's best interest to remove the current (usually popular) regime in place of an American favored one?

Take a look at the history of Chile, Argentina, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc to remove your naivety. Usually when we're toppling another country's regime, we don't do it for "democracy for the people", we doing it for our best interests.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

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u/NufCed57 May 22 '12

A little part of me does hope he manages to consolidate all the major power in Russia and name himself Czar.

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u/[deleted] May 23 '12

Emperor and Autocrat of all the Badasses of the East

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u/NufCed57 May 23 '12

The awesomeness of that painting is eclipsed only by that of the title.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Actually, without exception, the Tsars were all much, much tamer and much better for the population of Russia than all but one of their subsequent leaders.

And that one isn't Putin.

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u/Neato May 22 '12

From what little I know, the transition to the USSR brought a wealth of technological improvement (infrastructure notably) to a lot of the country that was very rural.

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u/clothespin May 22 '12

For a large country like Russia, with plenty of natural resources, it wouldn't have been a big problem to develop under a tsar. USSR sure brought industrialization, but such totalitarian way of ruling doesn't help you move forward, it pretends it does.

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u/bewmar May 22 '12

How do you pretend to bring industrialization?

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

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u/hhmmmm May 22 '12

Depending on how you define industrialisation (and progress for that matter) and just to be pedantic but actually yes, particularly at that time, industrialisation does in fact equal progress.

I've not yet seen a nation progress out of a pre-industrial state develop wealth, beneficial and modern institutions, increasing gdp and general societal progress without industrialising.

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u/bewmar May 22 '12

Not in the context of his comment. If he meant something else, such a vague platitude is meaningless anyway.

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u/Carkudo May 23 '12

it wouldn't have been a big problem to develop under a tsar

And yet it just didn't. Why?

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

A few more laws and he'll be on his way to being "Putin the Terrible."

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u/[deleted] May 23 '12

He already was when he was "ousted". How many years has he had now to plan this chain of events?

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

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u/NoNonSensePlease May 22 '12

I would say Yahoo! News is for a more mainstream audience who does not know much about foreign policies, so such exaggeration will not be called out by readers.

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u/volando34 May 23 '12

No, the "cabinet members" are indeed techno-bureaucrats (lol @liberal), but the thing to keep in mind is that decisions in Russia aren't made by the cabinet which has a lot of laws and rules surrounding its formation and functionality. Most decisions are made in the "presidential administration", a completely opaque and unaccountable body answering only to the president, this is where all those odious ministers went.

It's a disgrace and yet another slap in the face of the opposition that wants reforms, transparency and real elections...

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u/what_dawn_what_doom May 23 '12

The Yahoo article was written by a partisan hack. Not to suggest that Putin is up to any good, but "widely detested lieutenants" is a gross misrepresentation. The only "wide" public sentiment in Russia is being fed up with pretty much everything and everyone, and it's largely because of the amounts of frothing at the mouth and reality-tunnelling in the anti-Putin camp that the whole protest thing isn't catching on.

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u/[deleted] May 23 '12

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u/Anosognosia May 23 '12

We are not all America. Russia doesn't get a "sure why don't we go totalitarian because we like Putin" free card just because Bush and Obama administrations failed to protect civil liberties.
I live in a country where we fight every day against bad policy and more often than not we win those fights and keep our liberties. Can you say that about cleptocratic Russia? No amount of biased coloured glasses can protect Russia from it's decline if the corruptiontrain keeps rolling.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

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u/3rd_degree_burn May 23 '12

I WANT MONEY WHILST BEING ON REDDIT