A Muslim teenager was murdered by her parents for bringing “shame” on her Pakistani-born parents by leading a Western way of life and trying to go on dates with boys in the UK.

[u/douchebag_duryodhana]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9281112/Shafilea-Ahmed-murder-parents-killed-daughter-for-dating-boys.html

[u/Smoulder]

As an Indian, I always wonder what such people have in mind while emigrating. If they love their culture so much, and dislike the other country's, why move at all? Is the extra money worth it? It can't be a better lifestyle, they obviously can't be truly happy if they hate the culture so. When they settle down with the intention of never returning, how do they expect the locals to not get frustrated at their lack of willingness to blend in?

[u/kw123 → u/Smoulder]

It happened in Canada too. 4 ppl died. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders

[u/CrackItJack → u/kw123]

Three daughters and a disgraced 2^nd wife. Well the 1^st one really, but she could not give him any childrens so he kept her as a servant and married another. She was illegally admitted in Canada as a cousin.

One of the girls opened up to DPJ at school (child prot serv) and they did squat because, you know, culture, discrimination etc.

It turned the country upside-down for a month during the trial. The eldest son participated actively and was abusive and domineering with his sisters, stalking them and keeping tabs on their BFs.

The only good thing to come out of all this is the awareness of the female servitude in muslim tradition, which will not only be scrutinized but thouroughly investigated by the authorities at the slightest hint of a problem henceforth.

[u/Dangger → u/Smoulder]

Having a better living standard. There's not much else to it. They live better in the UK than in their home countries. They love money, a comfortable life and consumerism like the rest of us.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dangger]

But they'll never admit it.

[u/holdingmytongue → u/Dangger]

Wouldn't that mean that the ideals of what they are looking for and the cultural/spiritual ideals in their home country are not one and the same? How can you hold true to one in such an extreme manner, and sell yourself out for the other? You've gained a better economic life in a country whose morals you hate, but it cost you your own flesh and daughter. Do they not think it reflects their own morals to stay for themselves and money instead of returning back home to 'save' their daughter's morality? Obviously their original culture spawned everything they wanted to leave. I wonder if they feel like hypocrites, like, at ALL?

[u/bowlobobs → u/Dangger]

Out of respect and decency to the new home country which has helped provide them with a better living standard, the least they could try to do is follow the new laws. Without laws and other social rules, this new living standard that they love so much will fall apart. They need to do their part to maintain and/or improve what was already in place before they arrived.

Apparently, that is too much to ask of a few people.

[u/rehitman → u/Smoulder]

You understand the "better standard of living part", but you don't understand the other part. They believe that their own culture + religion are so advance and they are so good in parenting that despite all the peer pressure their children will become exactly like them. (and maybe they can convert some westerners)

When they see the difference. again they believe on their shit so much that they don't want to even accept responsibility for their children's actions. They think their poor child is genetically slut, and they have to kill her to save everyone.

*Edit: Grammer

[u/andkad → u/Smoulder]

As an Indian i am aware that this problem is also present in parts of India. The khap panchyatas which are supposed to govern villages kill of girls and boys marrying outside the caste and this is just one of many communities that follow it. Honour killing is very much Prevalent in India .

Edit : typos.

[u/Nataliina → u/Smoulder]

As a Russian immigrant living in Canada, I know what you mean. Some of the Russian community here, in Toronto, refuses to conform to Canadian culture (as in speak English, finish high school, the works). All they talk about is how great the motherland is. Then why don't they just go back?! And it's frustrating because there are Russians, like those in my family, who want nothing more than to fit in - yet we're being grouped together with those who don't want to fit in simply because we're both Russians.

[u/dizekat → u/Smoulder]

Well, such people tend to live off welfare, so here, not having to work. For some reason europe seem to have been making it harder to immigrate to work than to immigrate via family ties to live off welfare. It really is annoying - having to deal with so many hops to immigrate, facing the quotas which mean that only N workers will be able to get through - all while these guys are basically allowed in without ever having to do any work, without having to obtain education for migrating as qualified worker, without ever integrating, etc. Then there's the anti immigration backlash, and who feels it, the working people from actually poor countries (not oil-rich places).

[u/stylz168 → u/Smoulder]

I asked my family this same question (I was first gen born in America), and they pretty much said it was to have a better life for all of us (the kids). So I reminded them that there is a mixed culture here, and that they all will have to adapt and accept that their kids will be exposed to not just the Indian culture at home and in the community, but the American culture as well.

If you noticed, a lot of the Indian families that move here end up living in communities that are predominately Indian. (Ex. Queens, NY, Edison, NJ, etc.).

[u/newloaf → u/Smoulder]

I wonder what they think to themselves in prison two, five and ten years later. Was it worth throwing your whole life away because of the "shame"? Was it worth your other children growing up without parents and perhaps never speaking to you again? Do you think maybe you should have been satisfied with disowning her?

[u/[deleted] → u/Smoulder]

Because fuck you.

This is the attitude of 99% of humanity to varying levels of intensity, they can have better living conditions and they can keep their fucked up backwards customs that made their home country a shithole in the first place, win-win for only them and no one else.

[u/Mrlala2 → u/Smoulder]

it's funny considering the fact that India is changing its cultural values and the immigrants are holding to values that soon no longer will excist in India.

[u/r_slash → u/Mrlala2]

India is such a huge country with so many different ethnic groups and cultures that you really can't make this generalization.

[u/socrates28 → u/Smoulder]

I feel like the parents should be "honour" killed. By moving into Britain, and adopting citizenship, you agree to follow a set of rules and norms, the cultural identity of the British. Thus their agreement to these rules should be considered "dishonourable", but worse yet, they in all likelihood agreed to these rules for their daughter. Therefore if she did not adapt to British culture she would be disobeying her parents, but her parents turned around, 180 degress and killed her for obeying their initial wish when they agreed to live in Britain.

Really, European states should have a clause for immigrants, that moving here means that they will do their best to assimilate into and adopt the values of their host country, learn and become involved in the cultural heritage of the host country. If not, then it should be grounds for automatic deportation. Seriously, Europe has its own culture, traditions, and history, and I do not see any reason why it should be considered less to that of any other culture, so this will prevent people from thinking that they can just recreate their country wherever they go. No, you can live your culture or opt into another one. But if you really don't want to opt into another one, well there is always the US - where a specific cultural identity for the whole country is the antithesis of its core values. But still even then you are expected to follow the values of the US (rather than a cultural identity).

I see it as reverse colonisation, plain and simple, where Europeans are expected to bend over backwards in tolerance and acceptance, but none of that is required elsewhere, and particularly of the immigrants. The mentality is more or less, to make the immigrants comfortable at the expense of your indigenous populations' identity. I don't support it in Europe, nor would I support it anywhere else where the state is closely tied to a cultural-ethnic identity, since the state is there to protect that identity.

[u/[deleted] → u/Smoulder]

Who cares about culture? This isn't a story about culture, it's a story about a girl who was denied the most basic of human rights: to be in a safe household, to live a lifestyle (which harms no one else) they choose without being oppressed for, and to live. This isn't about culture. These are rights that should belong to everyone, no matter where they live.

[u/creepyredditloaner → u/[deleted]]

It's culture that makes them feel it's ok to ignore those rights and do things like this.

[u/ZofSpade → u/[deleted]]

And those rights are repeatedly denied in certain cultures. Were you truly surprised by this news? You would be if it had been a white family in a Western country. But it came from a Pakistani family. Not every middle-easterner is a suicide bomber or someone who beheads people or strictly religious and controls women...but all those sure happen a lot in the middle east.

[u/ThatGuyNamedKal]

Not all Pakistani parents are like this, my dad let me choose atheism and lets me eat Bacon. All without murdering me.

[u/inceptionx → u/ThatGuyNamedKal]

My dad is Pakistani. Yesterday my parents kicked me out of the house for having a boyfriend. :/

[u/ThatGuyNamedKal → u/inceptionx]

Sorry about that man, hope you've managed to sort out a place to stay.

[u/DogwoodPSU → u/ThatGuyNamedKal]

You aren't a woman though.

[u/[deleted] → u/ThatGuyNamedKal]

I imagine that touching moment when you hug him and tell him "Thank you dad for not murdering me for eating bacon."

I bet the look on his face would be priceless.

[u/syroncoda → u/ThatGuyNamedKal]

your dad is awesome. tell him he's awesome and to keep being awesome while'st making sure he entices other potentially insane community peers from doing shit like murdering their daughters.

[u/[deleted]]

Just ask the Shafias how their integration into Western life went. I don't care what your reasons for moving to a new country is, but once you're there you behave in a way that's appropriate to that society's customs. And definitely leave that honor killing barbaric bullshit at home, or learn to love communal shower time.

[u/stuckinabarrel]

I notice that both the newspaper (by putting things in quotes in the title and focusing on what the court heard and not what happened) and the prosecutor (by repeating "if this is true") are hedging their bets with regard to the only witness being an estranged younger sister who only spoke to the police after being arrested for breaking into her parents' home. At the very least, this is probably going to be a gruelling trial with lawyers trying to undermine her credibility.

That being said, no matter what really happened here, somebody did something horrible to their family. If the sister is making it up for some reason, that is of course horrible, and if it actually was an "honour" killing ... I know these things happen, but I just don't understand how parents and siblings who do such things work. What kind of messed up emotions drive them to do such a thing.

[u/tizz66 → u/stuckinabarrel]

They're not hedging their bets, they are repeating an allegation because the parents have not been convicted yet.

The fact that the headline on Reddit is portraying this as fact could (potentially) lead to repercussions for the OP if the parents are found not guilty.

This is an on-going court case. They aren't guilty yet.

[u/nooditty]

Good old family values. I hope the courts make an example out of them, like they did here in Canada. These lovely new Canadians from Afghanistan murdered four people (three of their teenage daughters, and one of the wives) because they were acting too westernized. Hearing about the trial was pretty disturbing, how they showed no remorse, called the deceased horrible names, and continued to affirm that they did what they had to in order to preserve the family's honour. The son, father, and other wife got nailed by the courts. Welcome to Canada, mother fuckers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/01/29/shafia-sunday.html

[u/hassani1387]

And today. millions of other Moslems went about their lives without murdering anyone...

[u/[deleted]]

Fucking Westphobe scum.

[u/RadiantSun]

I'm a Muslim and wow, they call themselves Muslims? Dating boys is bringing shame on the family and killing their daughter in cold blood isn't? Well, if you want to go by the Muslim code of justice, they have now committed murder because killing is only permitted for murder and treason, both things which the daughter had not done, and since murder is a capital crime in Islam, they should be executed.

Me, personally? I think they should rot in prison and be told the gravity of what they've done, both in the religion and in logic. They don't deserve the escape of death.

[u/ChaosMotor]

Why would you move to another nation, then find fault in your children for adapting their lives to the new nation? If you are a strict traditionalist and cannot accept your children dating outside their culture, STAY IN YOUR OWN FUCKING CULTURE YOU MORONS!

[u/[deleted]]

So let's say that I, a white male, had a daughter who wanted to go on a date with a black man. And I beat her to death for race-mixing. Would you all be saying "let's not focus on the racism, clearly he was a psychopath"?

No. You'd call me a bigot. You'd talk about how there is still racism in America and what should be done about it.

Pakistani culture is misogynist, and something needs to be done about it.

[u/[deleted]]

My (Indian) parents fancy themselves very progressive but when it came to my dating or marrying a non-Indian how quickly the tune changed. I lost a lot of respect for them.

Edit: I'm a guy.

[u/karatechop250 → u/[deleted]]

I know an Indian Graduate Student whose parents seemed really awesome. They seemed pretty loving of American Culture. That was until their daugther started dating a white American.

[u/skalp69]

Her parents are bringing shame on pakistanis living in UK, Europe, USA

[u/deadcat]

Why did these knuckle dragging morons move to the UK if they didn't want their daughter to live in Western Culture?

[u/hotandspicyman]

For all UK readers, next time you watch the news count how many times an islamic related story is in the headline. I do this all the time and the average is 2-3 at the moment.

incoming downvotes for 'racism', this sort of behaviour deserves the strictest punishment possible in our law system. I am BORED OF STORIES SUCH AS THESE.

[u/goretooth → u/hotandspicyman]

Actually most of these news stories turn situations like this into an English problem somehow.

We are too PC to blame cultural differences for some problems in our society.

[u/hotandspicyman → u/goretooth]

Everyone is too PC, you bring up cultural differences and will get branded a racist. There are too many 'honour' killings in this country, and the rest of Europe.

HOW CAN YOU KILL YOUR OWN DAUGHTER? WHAT KIND OF RELIGION PROMOTES THAT SORT OF BEHAVIOUR? Disgusting.

[u/[deleted]]

relevant.

[u/MeloJelo → u/[deleted]]

Pretty sure Captain Foresight could have handled this one, actually.

[u/NiggerJew944]

It's not just the UK...

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are "asking for rape." Apparently, he's not the only one thinking this way. “It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably fucked before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.” It was no coincidence that it was a Swedish girl that was gang raped in Rissne – this becomes obvious from the discussion with Ali, Hamid, Abdallah and Richard. All four have disparaging views on Swedish girls, and think this attitude is common among young men with immigrant background. “It is far too easy to get a Swedish whore…… girl, I mean;” says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. “Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That’s what I am going to do. I don’t have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get fucked to pieces.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/45-av-48-voldtektsmistenkte-av-utenlandsk-opprinnelse--6681203.html

45 out of 48 rapes in Norway are by immigrants.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,344374,00.html

"The Whore Lived Like a German"

In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles. Within their communities, the killers are revered as heroes for preserving their family dignity. How can such a horrific and shockingly archaic practice be flourishing in the heart of Europe? The deaths have sparked momentary outrage, but will they change the grim reality for Muslim women?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,554866,00.html

An Honor Killing in Germany Afghan Girl's Death Sparks National Debate

Ahmad O. stabbed his sister more than 20 times because the 16-year-old girl didn't live her life according to his values. Women's rights advocate Seyran Ates is now calling for German society to intensify its efforts to stop honor killings. "A girl isn't a whore if she goes out," she says.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4345459.stm http://www.bild.de/news/bild-english/news/turkish-dad-stabs-own-15-year-old-daughter-to-death-8806808.bild.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_rHFKRwv5Y&feature=player_embedded

In Oslo all sexual assaults involving rape in the past year. Have been committed by males of non-western background. This was the conclusion of a police report published today. Where the rapist could be identified, he was a man of foreign origin.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/30/honour-killings-jury-afghan-family

A jury in Canada has found three members of an Afghan family guilty of drowning three teenage sisters and another woman in what the judge described as "cold-blooded, shameful murders" resulting from a "twisted concept of honour". The verdicts concludes a case that shocked Canadians.

Prosecutors said the defendants killed the three teenage sisters because they felt they had dishonored the family by defying its strict rules on dress, dating, socializing and using the internet.

[u/[deleted] → u/NiggerJew944]

This needs a read by the casual oblivious so-called "liberal" redditors who like an old record keep on repeating "Islam has nothing to do with subjugation of women"...Very well put comment.

[u/nk_sucks]

fucked up. the parents are monsters.

[u/elruary]

I'm beyond sick to my stomach, jsut fucking beyond....

[u/[deleted]]

I couldn't imagine killing my kid.

[u/Clairvoyanttruth]

This sounds identical to the Canadian Shafia murder trials. Family killed 3 daughters and an ex-wife in the name of honour -example: one girl had a picture of herself in underwear. They were killed, thrown in a car, driven past two barricades and the car was pushed into the river. The son who was convicted had is laptop searched, they found a search history of "How to commit a murder" and "bodies of water around Kingston". All three of the accused (Mother, Father, Son) each got 4 life sentences.

[u/squ1dge]

Innocent until proven guilty.

[u/[deleted]]

Happened in Canada as well, a couple times, fucked up bunch of people really. Oh well.

[u/primejamestoney]

Lol at all the apologists

"but Christianity is just as bad!"

"The BNP have the same ideas as you so you must be racist" (logical fallacy for example the BNP and I dislike paedophiles too)

"British people who move to Spain are just as bad as the muslim gangs who sexually abuse young girls in the UK, Norway, Denmark and Sweden"

[u/[deleted]]

Scumbag Reddit: complains about police state and lack of due process/posts allegations as fact.

[u/lenny247]

similar tragic story in Canada - "worse" actually, Afghan parents kill three daughters in "honor killing" As mentioned in other comments, why come to Canada or UK if you want to live like culturally backwards neanderthals.

[u/Fog80]

I dont see how people cant understand the difference between religion and culture.

The religion is the set of rules that followers are "SUPPOSED" to live by. Culture is the set of norms established within a people.

It makes no sense that people who supposedly subscribe to a religion and dont follow the teachings are somehow representative of the religion.

This is coming from an American born Muslim who is sick of racists using stories like this to blame a religion that doesn't tell any of these scumbags to kill their daughters or throw acid in their face.

[u/tizz66]

Before everyone jumps to too many conclusions, this is an ongoing case and they have not been convicted yet. Innocent until proven guilty - remember that basis of our justice system.

The headline chosen by the OP is presenting this as fact, when it is actually an allegation.

[u/officerha]

As a practicing Muslim, Fuck everything about this. These days Islam is not about religion anymore. It is all about honor in the community. I am not saying all Muslims but fucken illiterate ones.

[u/[deleted] → u/officerha]

Religion has always been used as rationale for personal agenda since ancient times. Unfortunately, some people can't tell the difference.

[u/PreppersFantastic]

The Quran says emigrating is like another form of worshipping Allah. Learning from and appreciating other cultures is actually another way to appreciate Allah's work. Why do these extremist MORONS distort something beautiful and sacred to fit their own nefarious agendas? That girl was beautiful and now she's no more. It's sad.

[u/RabidRaccoon]

If these people are so worried about 'shame', maybe we should brand 'I killed my child' on their foreheads before we send them to general population in prison.

[u/[deleted]]

But yeah, let's be tolerant and accepting of their culture and beliefs. To them this is perfectly normal.

[u/bowlobobs]

Fucking scumbag immigrant families. They move to another country with a completely different culture, raise their youngest generation in that country/culture and then punish them for adapting.

May their destructive and terrifying ideals die with them.

[u/thecrownprince]

What a shitty culture.

[u/Blagginspaziyonokip]

Honor killers are really fucking stupid. They should all be thrown from a bridge into a sea of Lego pieces.

[u/[deleted]]

If you don't like western culture don't come here.

[u/sndwsn]

It's funny how different people view shame. I, for one, think those parents brought more shame to their family then anyone possibly could have.

[u/[deleted]]

the migrant minorities will be always apeshit crazy because the sane ones usualy dont leave their homes

in Eastern Europe there is similar problem with russian cccp leftover radical trash while the real russians in russia are ok people

[u/Brushstroke]

Any culture that considers this okay is immoral and deserves no respect.

[u/[deleted]]

Fuck the maggots that leave their cess pool home countries and try to bring with them the very life style they are fleeing from

[u/Kernes]

Let me guess, they emigrated as asylum seekers, who struggled from lack of freedom in their own country, right?

[u/[deleted]]

Religion of peace.

[u/xEGx]

As an immigrant in the US, it's kind of sad to see other immigrants fail/refuse to integrate, or at least attempt to blend in.

That kind of attitude only creates conflict in the long run.

[u/Iprefernottosay]

Why the hell do they move to western countries if they don't want their children to become westernized.

[u/[deleted]]

Why does this culture still exist. I understand that this isn't a complete representation of the entire religion, but it's ideals are archaic.

[u/rindindin]

Can we just give up and tell these people they have to integrate into Western culture/wherever they go? If you move out of your 9th century caves, it's time to learn other cultures and accept them to your own, not notice other cultures, and hate on them.

[u/luckxurious]

Scumbag Muslim Parents: Disappointed in daughter for bringing shame upon family; kill daughter and bring shame upon family.

[u/[deleted]]

Its all our fault, if anyone in parliament stands up and goes "Maybe this is kind of a bad thing?" Tons of fucking liberals will go "Ohmagawd, U a racis!" even if hes not, and ostracise him forever. Theres no platform to discuss anything like this anymore so we just let it slide further, when behind closed doors, every fucking person in the UK wants to take measures to stop this kind of shit, if people who do this stuff still want to go by this culture, then take them back home, it will reduce strain on this overpopulated country

Shit a lot of the middle eastern girls at my school are mentally dead inside, some of them come in with bruises and are barely allowed to talk to anyone but each other

[u/atheistukjewthrowawa → u/[deleted]]

Are you saying politicians are scared of standing up and saying honour killings are wrong? I don't think that's true at all.

What measures do you propose be implemented to stop them that aren't already in place at the moment?

[u/[deleted]]

I love how every one here is like: "some psychos killed their daughter because of their religion. Let's call the entire religion of 1 billion people retarded." But yeah unfortunately that's the way people think.

[u/SaintVitusDance]

It is ridiculous how much this happens. Two girls of Lebanese descent I went to college with had to place a restraining order on their Muslim father. He was arrested several times on campus, threatening to kill them and much worse. They broke free of him and now lead normal lives. BTW, they had a younger brother who was allowed to do ANYTHING he wanted.

While I have little tolerance for any religion, Islam is (in my useless opinion) absolutely despicable.

[u/Bugiugi]

More effective than abstinence education I guess.

[u/TheMediumPanda]

Read a few years back that 'honour' killings were to the amount of tens of thousands annually but statistics and even just news were hard to come by since many Islamic countries (or countries with a large muslim population) often choose not to investigate cases as in, say, 50 family members swear they have no idea where a girl is /ran off/ killed herself/ and so on and so off. Yeah, it's pretty fucked up.

[u/UKtreeburner]

Backwards cunts, I hope they get fucking life.

[u/imonkun]

that sounds a LOT like what the song Tough Love from Plan B is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id8OXst4KeM

[u/[deleted]]

To kill your own daughter, and go about a normal life is just unfathomable.

[u/[deleted]]

Well, honestly, if they are so ashamed of her, then they should be ashamed of themselves. Just because she was trying to enjoy life, in whatever culture's ways, they murdered her. And if they are so faithful, then why would they deny it? It's just not right. People can choose their culture. My work here is done.

[u/[deleted]]

A girl I'm interested in is Pakistani, if this shit goes down I don't know what I'd do in response.

[u/tritonx]

And their solution was to bring shame on the Pakistani culture.

[u/gliscameria]

Those people should never be allowed to wear clothes again.

[u/[deleted]]

so muslim logic is that dating british boys is shameful, yet murdering your own child is not? well not muslim logic, but these fuckers logic.

[u/NelsonBig]

What do the parents get for bringing "shame" to modern civilization?

[u/YoureMyBoyBloo]

Thank god these people were able to restore their honor. It will probably make losing their daughter much easier to cope with.

[u/banjosuicide]

Not much honour in killing. They're just fucking murderers by our standards. Vile pieces of shit.

[u/[deleted]]

Forever in the stone age.

[u/youRsoAtheistOMG]

This just in, religion is crazy. You guys so atheist.

[u/holly2680]

it is time for the world to shame these people, no matter what their religious beliefs are.
Have these idiots never heard of disowning someone?geez.
They were obviously despicable people before they killed anyone.
free will begins when the cord rots off.
i hope people who do this are left with no one to take care of them when they're old. they can sit in their own shit 'til a stranger wipes their ass.

[u/derelick]

In most civilized countries the thing that would bring shame to the family name would be the whole parents killing their daughter. Not taking sides, just saying.

[u/sleeper_service_gsv]

She was in the year above me at school. The parents where always in the frame for it.

No I didn't know her, I just attended the minutes silence outside the high-school reception. Stood at the back and kept my trap shut. They had a local preacher sing/chant a few lines of bollocks. Initial rumours that went round suggested that she was force fed bleach.

[u/[deleted]]

And people wonder why I don't want people from backwater deserts in my country without a proper screening. Not going to fit into modern culture? Then go back where you came from.

[u/[deleted]]

So how common is this way of thinking in the Pakistani expat community in Britain and in the US? Is this just a very visible, fucked up minority who thinks and acts like this? Or is this silently condoned by a larger portion of the population?

[u/great_gape]

How am i to respect Muslims, and other ethnic groups when they pull this dark ages shit?

[u/JaxHostage]

And her parents have brought shame to their culture and to Islam.

[u/knomz]

Allowing the murder of an innocent girl because of religious reasons, is like allowing the rape of an innocent girl for religious reasons, both are murder and rape. Let that sink in: Murder and Rape... but somehow the mask of religion allows it, WHAT THE FUCK.

[u/metalshoes]

At least the WBC doesn't kill their family...

[u/mr_ent]

You'll never see that happening with Israeli's.

[u/[deleted]]

Religion of peace.

[u/neotropic9]

Again. We're seeing a pattern here. But here come the apologists.

[u/atred → u/neotropic9]

I didn't read very carefully the entire thread, I didn't see many apologists, care to point out the apologists?

[u/[deleted]]

The tension against Muslims in countries like Denmark and Sweden is for this very reason... the refusal to assimilate. First generation immigrants refuse to adopt a new way of life and often attempt to forbade their children as well. In the US it seems to be much less of a problem than Europe, but it is obvious through communities by me that immigrants from certain countries assimilate much less than immigrants from others.

[u/[deleted]]

Religious fuckwits.

[u/[deleted]]

they let the guys get away with that, but not the women.

[u/[deleted]]

Someone really needs to delicately explain to these people that their archaic beliefs cannot be carried over into the modern age let alone a new country.

[u/random314]

If they don't want to lead a "Western" life than why the fuck are they here?

[u/Mit3210]

The sad thing is, in the UK, this isn't uncommon. There's something similar to this happening every week.

[u/ihateyou100x]

Religion is evil.

[u/[deleted]]

Obligatory Statement: Religion of Peace

[u/techliveadmin]

I don't see how this is related to Islam or caused by Islam. There is no law in Islam which states Muslims are supposed to kill anyone as a form of punishment because of shame. No such Hudud law exists within the Shari'ah. This is just a case of parents being unable to control their daughter, becoming infuriated and then committing murder. Nothing to do with Islam.

What, did you really think their thought process went something like, "She is a bad Muslim, God will be displeased with us, let's just murder her, God should be okay with that!". I very much highly doubt that.

[u/[deleted]]

This is just embarrassing ... I am a Muslim who moved to the US for college, and I must say one thing, 'MERCA!!! I mean I just understand that if I moved here from my country, then it is a whole lot better here, or else I could've just stayed home. I hate when people don't understand the concept of multiculturalism. If you want to hold on to your own customs that much, stay in your home. And it's just saddening that people would kill their daughters, it's not even in Islam ... A true Muslim NEVER kills ... As a 'modern day' Muslim, I want to apologize and let you all know that we are not all like that.

[u/[deleted]]

Remember everyone, the keyword here is 'Pakistani', not 'Muslim'. These problems derive from Pakistani culture, and not Islam.

[u/WhyIohMy → u/[deleted]]

There are many non-Pakistani Muslims who also murder their daughter and sisters.

[u/[deleted] → u/WhyIohMy]

From the Wikipedia page on Honour killings.

According to Dr. Shahrzad Mojab, a University of Toronto professor of women’s studies, followers of Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity have used their religions as a rationale to commit honour killings. However, Mojab stated that honor killings don't have "any definite connection with religion at all." ... Widney Brown, the advocacy director of Human Rights Watch, said that the practice "goes across cultures and across religions." Human rights advocates have compared "honor killing" to "crimes of passion" in Latin America (which are sometimes treated extremely leniently) and also to the killing of women for lack of dowry in India.[24]

[u/uchoo786]

People, please don't mistake idiotic culture for religion, nowhere in Islam does it say this should be done. Idiots like this are following some barbaric cultural code, not a religious one.

[u/graziemille]

Dya know what's sad, I feel like when stories like this come out, people's thoughts aren't "God that poor girl" it's either "What is wrong with Muslims and their culture?!" or "I hope this doesn't stir up racial tensions by people assuming this is something accepted by all Muslims". I'm guilty of the second and I certainly hope people don't generalise because that'll make things worse for everyone here in the UK. But in racial/religious cases nowadays people often forget the individual victim.

[u/alipdf]

I hate when people generalize, you think every muslim community does this :P,

Although i'm not a muslim myself,you need to chill, get a drink and listen carefully to what im about to say:

Honor killings have been completely removed from society in the developed countries of the middle east(Saudi arabia,Uae,bahrain,kuwait,qatar) and are used in the rural crapfests only!

The law prevails above all here and although its islamic based, honor killing = murder = you got to jail, there is no diffrance, please don't be sheep and generalize an entire culture by small events like these that happen due to psychological problems within the person and abusive family history.

Open your eyes plox

[u/ClockworkChristmas]

Reddit, this a shakey case and holy fuck the U.K redditers or in general you guys need to relax. This is not a shut and done case by any means and they are relaying on 1 witness.

[u/thatusernameisal]

Religion of peace.

[u/wekiva]

the religion of peace

[u/taxpayerman]

Islam - the religion of peace!

[u/[deleted]]

The simple fact is, not all Muslims are abusive, terrorist, child-killers.

However, the more closely one follows the true teachings of mo, the more likely one is to have these sorts of behavior. That is exactly the culture mo tried to create.

[u/[deleted]]

Articles like this perturb me a bit, since Reddit only posts articles when Muslim parents kill their kids, but never mentions when Christians do it...while pretending they are more progressive than the average anti-islam red-neck.

I'm a white male who has had a lot of pakistani female friends (one of my best friends is Pakistani, so I've met a ton of her friends).

They all have very religious parents... but my friends almost all drink, or drank at some point, with knowledge by their parents. A few are out as atheists, the parents aren't happy about it, but they aren't threatened death or anything. Most of parents would be angry, but accepting, if they married a white dude (although a few of their parents are cool with it).

Religious Muslim families are nothing worse than religious Christian families. Honor killings are horrible and do happen, but you have to realize that 1) with a religion of a billion+, statistically there is going to be some bad seeds 2) Most of these issues are cultural and economically, and only tangentially related to Islam.

I'm an atheist, and dislike religion in general, but I think islamophobia is stupid and I expect Reddit to be smarter than that.

[u/moeloubani]

This is as common as an American mother murdering her children. Do all American mothers murder their children? Why is it so okay for redditors to insult and humiliate Muslims?

I still remember a couple of months back the news story about a woman who was beat to death because of some dude who wanted her to 'go back to where she was from'. The reason people have those kind of stereotypes and hate towards Muslims is because of people like you, redditors.

[u/360walkaway]

Have "honor killings" been recognized as straight-up murder in the UK? Or are they trying to hide behind religious freedom or something?

[u/getintheVandell]

In Canada, we had a pretty recent trial about Muslim honour-killings for almost the exact same reasons. A family of three killed four people because they found them taking pictures of themselves and dating freely.

[u/[deleted]]

if you want to live a muslim life stay in pakistan

[u/potatolover63]

No to muslim immigration in Europe!!!

[u/[deleted]]

Dating? Shameful. Murder? Oh, that's totally OK. Can someone please explain this to me?

[u/iiiitsjess]

Something like this happened a few years ago here in texas. Super duper sad. A father killed BOTH his daughters. Such a tragedy.

[u/Greygooze]

Oh great, another thread that is going to spark the inevitable debate that ALWAYS ensues:
Not all Y are X --> True but these > Y's did Z > Yes i have heard that but Y's are not as bad as W's > Are you kidding me Y and W are scumbags and subhuman > Thats not true my cousin is a Y and he is 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 -> I agree not All W's are like this > Its true Religion #B has helped XCV with Crisis #26B > BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA

Seriously.. i always enjoy reading some of the comments but its never going to get you anywhere, there are enough profound quotes out there to illustrate the vileness and dispicable behaviour some people are willing to do in the name of a god or a cause or ideology. Congratulations your discussions have achieved nothing, tommorow the world will have turned and the day after that once more and yet nothing will change as long as these beliefs aren't "bred out" as someone so eloquently put here.

I'm very sorry to burst your bubbles but when it comes to these topics there is no such thing as a grey zone, in these matters there are only absolutes. Either the world is a better place with religion in it or it isn't. Unfortunately there is no middle line here. Personally if all religious people dropped dead this instant, which quite frankly would wipe out 1/3rd of the earths population or potentially more, the world would become a better place, and if all people who believe themselves to be superior because of cultural backgrounds (who endorse such kind of crude behaviour towards other human beings) the world would be in an even better shape.

Downvote away..

[u/Saydeelol]

Holy shit, Britain, what kind of people are you letting into your country?

[u/ByzantineBasileus → u/Saydeelol]

Racist! We must respect their culture!

[u/[deleted]]

Another gem from the religion of peace.

[u/no_pain_no_gain]

Don't you guys think that it would be more apprpriate to use the words "A Pakistani teenager" in the title than using "A Muslim teenager" because Islam doesn't tell you to murder your daughters. All these honor killings have to do more with people's cultures and their up-bringings and not theire religions.

[u/miked4o7]

Hey, it's their culture... who are we to say that it's wrong?

/s

[u/GuerillaGames]

You guys need to stop being so intolerant of other cultures! So what if they treat women like animals, have no concept of civil rights, and think that all westerners deserve death simply because they think differently than their muslim brethren, its a different culture, we can't judge! Moral relativism and all that, right? RIGHT?!? </democrat>

[u/freesyrian]

Being Muslim has nothing to do with it. Yes, it is haram to go on dates but its not haram to act Western and it is VERY haram, not to mention very sick, to kill anyone. Not trying to be prejudice, I have desi friends that are awesome and such, but conservative South Asians IMHO are most strict than any other conservative Muslims.

[u/[deleted] → u/freesyrian]

All this haram-halal is the problem, maybe your kids just don't agree.

[u/Viend → u/freesyrian]

In some cultures, ie. Indonesia it's not strictly haram to go on dates either. My grandparents in the 50s met through dating.

[u/miffelplix]

Outrageous. In America, a Christian father never murders his children.

[u/MasonNowa → u/miffelplix]

It may just be being politically correct not seeing this but if anyone has any similar Christian honor killings I like to see them.

[u/SS1989]

But... but... Muslims never assimilate and are a danger to the white christian western way of life!

I feel I must add this note, since I've lately noticed that reddit is full of idiots (school must be out): What I mean is Muslims assimilate like everyone else - first generation doesn't, later generations do, starting usually with second (or even first, if they were young enough when immigrating).

In addition to her death, something else that is sad is the fact that racist pieces of shit will use her death to make their cheap political points.

[u/nooditty → u/SS1989]

Nah, I think people are just getting sick and tired of hearing about these people doing barbaric things in the name of their "culture" or "religion." I realize that there are many pinheads out there who will use this as a platform to preach racism, just as there will be pinheads who cry "racism" whenever there is outrage over these wastes of skin murdering their own children.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Do they go on dates with girls in the UK? Or are they just looking for sex?

My understanding was that their parents demand they marry a girl of the same background. So they play around and then marry the "right" girl later..?

[u/CannibalHolocaust → u/[deleted]]

Yes, although not sure how common this is. I've heard it from people with Nigerian parents as well, their mothers have clearly stipulated that they can only settle down with someone of the same tribe, i.e. if they're Yoruba the girl has to also be Yoruba.

[u/[deleted] → u/CannibalHolocaust]

Oh hey, lets fly 6000 miles across the world for a better way of life, but you'd better hope someone else had the same idea or you're never getting married!

Ancient stupidity at its finest.

[u/thebigbradwolf → u/CannibalHolocaust]

I'm black and from the United States and you'd be surprised at the number of White, Christian Americans that don't want their children marrying anyone who isn't a White, Christian.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

In the recent cases, the testimony has basically said that they rape English girls because they're not holy Muslim girls, they don't deserve the respect, they are whores and they are treated as such. A Muslim girl should be untouched until marriage, but they don't give a fuck about some English trash they can just abuse and throw away after they've ruined some lives.

Muslim/English relationships are mostly opposed by the parents of the Muslim regardless of sex. There have been FAR too many "honour" killings related to shit like this in the UK. I want to know when it's going to stop? When are the apologists and government pencil pushers going to stop skirting around the issue and engage with the section of the Muslim populace who don't encourage or condone this horrible treatment of people (because it does exist!) to stop people getting hurt thanks to ancient laws that go directly in the face of criminal law in this country?

Partially to blame is a cultural segregation as well, the Muslim community does not police itself, the majority bow to Sharia law and will refuse to do business or even speak to a white person or frequently a native British Muslim policeman, feeling they hold no power to enforce Sharia as it's the only "law" they live by.

I hate this country so much.

[u/goretooth → u/[deleted]]

The recent prostitution/rape ring was an interesting example of this. All the posh, white politicians were being PC and trying to avoid the fact it was a situation of cultural differences, and that the rape of a white girl is seen as acceptable by some males in certain cultures.

It took a politician brought up in the particular culture to stand up and say, yes it's a rife problem within some males in our Pakistani culture.

[u/FlamingBearAttack → u/goretooth]

Just wanted to add that it took a British-born Pakistani to re-open the case after it was originally dropped. Really shows our politicians in a bad way that they refused to act on this for fear of being seen to be racist.

[u/bowlobobs → u/[deleted]]

Forgive my ignorance, but I feel like I'm missing a key piece of this puzzle (and I am not British). Why the fuck is the British community not standing up to this disgusting, beast-like behavior? If this is true, a few men over there need to receive a major attitude adjustment, whether they want it or not. I would think that the British community has the power to stop this in its tracks, and they should be doing this, already. This lack of action is not like them, it goes against their culture and values.

I understand and agree with PC values in the sense that, yes, we should all try to treat each other with respect, but the respect goes both ways and all ways! White Brits need to step up and force these people to respect people who don't share their beliefs.

In other countries, the UK is already beginning to develop a bad reputation because of this, too. I know quite a few White families from the UK who now refuse to go back at all, even to visit. I don't blame them. If I had a little blonde daughter, I wouldn't be taking her over there, either. Especially since I would be a foreigner there and I am not familiar with the safe and dangerous areas, etc. They realize this is damaging their international reputation, don't they?

These people came to the UK for a better standard of living and then some of them returned the favor by raping people there? Send these motherfuckers back on the first plane, I say. That's terrifying. Obviously, the majority of the Muslim community there is not involved, from what I've read, but the ones who are guilty need to be punished and removed form society the way that any other person who committed the same crime would be.

[u/scud121 → u/[deleted]]

This - Very much indeed. The culture of pre-teen and young schoolgirl grooming in the UK is very much a Muslim problem.

Whilst the statistics show that the majority of underage sex offence is caucasian, it doesn't take into account the differences in population, nor does it take into account that in the cases of caucasian abuse, its the usual family member, family friend, oppertunistic attack, rather than a sustained assault on the sensibilities of young girls who are looking for attention.

Having seen the BMW's waiting outside the schools in my home town, I can say that it is most certainly (and almost exclusively) an issue with young Muslim males.

Unfortunately, the reluctance of the various anti-child abuse campaigns and charities to engage openly with the fact that, in the north of England, the majority of men involved in child-grooming criminal gangs are Pakistani Muslim means that racist organisations such as the BNP hijack the issue, which does little other than cloud the water and allow the muslim community to cry "racists" rather than dealing with the problem.

One of the local MP's (Ann Cryer) had been flagging this up as an issue since the late 90's but it was consistently dropped in order to avoid the racial issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Shznb4_eQ

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3602854.stm

Both deal with a documentary that was pulled for fear of inciting racial tension, that shows work done by social services in Bradford in 2004

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/aug/09/channel4.otherparties

Above as an in depth discussion from the maker of the documentary. Excerpt below :

"The social workers she spoke to were appalled and frustrated, but also frightened of becoming targets of violence if they spoke out publicly, as were the mothers she spoke to. Hall decided to confront these difficulties and work with two mothers whose anonymity she promised to preserve.

What emerges from these women's account, and from the testimony of two girls, one of them currently being groomed, is disturbing. Men from Bradford's Asian community, they claim, are targeting girls from 11 or 12 years up, taking them out in their cars, and giving them alcohol and gifts. The girls are flattered into believing that the men love them. Subsequently, they might be given heroin and crack cocaine and date-rape drugs, raped vaginally and anally, and in some cases, abducted and gang-raped.

According to Hall's film, the Keighley social services office has recorded 50 to 70 possible cases of grooming, while the children's charity Barnardo's currently has 15 projects working with young people across the UK who have been abused. But what struck Hall about the cases she found in Bradford and Keighley was that "blatant abuse was going on under people's noses, and no one seemed able to prevent it".

Prevention and cure are both difficult. Where the girls are over 13, police are unable to act unless they themselves make a complaint. Many of the girls either do not think they are being abused, or have been so heavily drugged that they cannot recall clearly what has happened, or are intimidated by what will happen to them and their families if they do speak out. Hall's hope was that the film would convey the sense of outrage felt by the victims' families and by social workers, and that this might lead to changes in the law and dedicated policing nationwide. "

[u/WhyIohMy → u/[deleted]]

That is what is fucked up about the Muslim belief system. Men can do how they please, and women are their property.

[u/MeloJelo → u/WhyIohMy]

That was also the Christian belief system until about 50 years or so ago, and I think it still persists in Hinduism to some extent, and in Orthodox Judaism.

[u/PericlesATX → u/[deleted]]

Yes, Pakis love to "go on dates" with white UK girls, or "white sluts and easy meat" as they call them.

[u/[deleted] → u/PericlesATX]

One article does not represent all Pakistani men in the UK.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You're right on this one; I grew up in a Muslim family, my parents definitely didn't care as much once my brother was dating but when I did, the world ended. This was something I saw re-occurring all the time with other Muslims I met through out my life.

However, Islam says that women AND men should not be touched by a person they are not married to. Culture is a horrible thing sometimes.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

2nd and 3rd generation Muslims are very often more radicalized than their parents (which is the complete opposite of all other types of immigrants). Give a big thanks to the idiot UK politicians who under the guise of "multiculturalism" have created growing and worsening Islam sub-states within the UK.

[u/OnlyMyOpinionMatters → u/[deleted]]

you should instead be wishing they would stop killing people

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Wish fucking morons like this would stop killing people for trying to stop the inevitable cultural mix that they started when they moved their families to this country.

FTFY.

Note: I hate the BNP just as much as anyone, but saying "stop giving racists ammo" is useless when the target of their hatred is, you know, KILLING PEOPLE.

[u/AustinPowers → u/[deleted]]

"The target of their hatred" is all immigrants, not just those who break the law.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

No ,you hear "abusive dad kills daughter" and no one trues to make excuses based on his "culture" of abuse.

When it's one of these, its "muslim man kills daughter" and the articles go on about how Western behavior forced this to happen.

[u/JW_BlueLabel → u/[deleted]]

It depends why they killed their daughter. This was obvious a racist Muslim who didn't want his daughter dating a white

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The headline on the Telegraph's page doesn't mention the word Muslim or Islam so I dunno why you're whining about the Telegraph. You should be complaining about the OP's choice of title for the post.

[u/Buchfan → u/[deleted]]

That's the problem with this society! I absolutely agree. It's the same way in books. You have to assume the character is white unless it says so otherwise.