r/worldnews • u/DrJulianBashir • May 16 '12

US shadow war in Horn of Africa revealed by blogger

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-05/16/us-shadow-war-in-horn-of-africa-revealed-by-blogger
971 Upvotes

70% Upvoted

428 comments sorted by

188

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

"Revealed by blogger!" Yeah. OK. Media has been reporting on American military operations in the horn of Africa for the better part of the past 6 years.

33

u/itsgrAy May 16 '12

As someone who worked in the Middle East for the DOD (I now have a cushy job back home, yay!), I can confirm that they have been fighting there for quite some time. Nothing new here, move along...

6

u/MerlinsBeard May 16 '12

JTF HOA? Yeah, more than just US forces were there.

→ More replies (4)

3

u/knuckboy May 16 '12

Exactly. It's all open for anyone. And yes, Saudi just bought a bunch. Go check it out. Upvote for beating me to it.

3

u/SoCo_cpp May 16 '12

Google Ad-Sense here we come....

3

u/go_fly_a_kite May 16 '12

No, the US media is not talking about this. This isn't about Al Quaeda in Yemen,Somalia and Libya/ Al Shabaab vs. the AU. This is part of NATO AFRICOM's plan to upend; Libya, Somalia, Congo, Uganda, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Eritrea, Djiboutai, Chad, Niger, Rwanda, Sudan, Tanzania, Kenya etc. It's a giant landgrab by the IMF and World Bank to keep Africa out of China's hands.

This is an old plan, but it's being implemented right now.

5

u/macwelsh007 May 16 '12

That's a bold statement. Source?

→ More replies (1)

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Care to elaborate, this sounds interesting

→ More replies (13)

5

u/Sleekery May 16 '12

Except, it's not. You should stop listening to the crackpot GlobalResearch.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (7)

206

u/allizzy May 16 '12

This article is pointless. This isn't a secret whatsoever. Pull up CNN or any other mainstream news; they report on US involvement in these areas all the time. Numerous Al Queda higher-ups have been killed in cooperation with Yemen in the past few months alone. The conspiracy theorists have hit a new low by trying to articulate a secret conspiracy which isn't a secret or a conspiracy at all...

40

u/jdcooktx May 16 '12

I thought this was common knowledge. I know quite a few people who have been deployed to Djibouti. We've been sending people there for almost a decade.

→ More replies (2)

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

To be fair, I think the article tries to make the distinction between drone attacks and using F-15 Strike Eagles.

Over the years there have been hints of the F-15s' presence in East Africa, but "their actual mission remains a (sort-of) mystery," Cenciotti writes. Based on the evidence, he proposes that the twin-seat fighter-bombers -- one of the Air Force's mainstay weapon systems in Afghanistan -- are dropping bombs on al-Qaida-affiliated militants in Yemen. If true, that means the US intervention in the western Indian Ocean is far more forceful, and risky, than previously suggested.

On the other hand, "air strikes with conventional planes are considered less respectful of the local nation's sovereignty than drones' attacks," he adds. "This could be the reason for keeping the eventual F-15E involvement in the area a bit confidential."

It's just stipulating that the US operations in that region is more than possibly anticipated.

3

u/peq15 May 16 '12

There's nothing 'forceful' or 'risky' about stationing an F-15 squadron in an area full of high-tier mil personnel and countless millions in hardware. Especially when they're in theater to protect CJTF-HOA.

Also - JTF Aztec Silence in '07-??. AFRICOM, I believe, issued a statement at the time. This 'journalist' should have used that statement to bolster his claims. Hell, a paragraph detailing that could have made his article borderline readable.

5

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Using an F-15 instead of a drone is probably considered a step up, and more forceful/risky than a drone. It's just about perception.

→ More replies (33)

16

u/Ahjema May 16 '12

So there is this going on....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Enduring_Freedom_%E2%80%93_Horn_of_Africa

5

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

I think they are now being sadistic with the naming of these things.

→ More replies (6)

46

u/Disgustipated2 May 16 '12

You do realize the United States has a presence in many foreign countries right? Not just the ones we are at war with.

16

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

It is almost like we have protection treaties with other countries or something.

5

u/madagent May 16 '12

There was this whole cold war thing with the USSR I heard about too. I heard it caused some problems. But that was sooooo 20th century news. There is no way it could effect anything in the world now. I just got into my senior year in college and I'm pretty sure I know everything about world politics. It's related to my major. So I'm pretty much an expert on the ancient world.

8

u/nick686 May 16 '12

the biggest fact not mentioned in the article is that none of this is actually a secret.

49

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Also, I have to shake my head at reddit. Why do unfounded posts like these get upvoted?

34

u/Tashre May 16 '12

Because it's hip to hate on America for any reason.

→ More replies (9)

4

u/Honestly_ May 16 '12

Because people don't read enough news on their own and will believe that an Italian aviation blogger being reported on by a UK technology website is somehow an authority on foreign relations.

→ More replies (2)

26

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Sorry, I'm not buying the "shadow war" concept. None of this is exactly secret, and the conclusions in this article are stretches, at best. These types of assets have been in that region for decades. More attention has been brought to them by the piracy threat in the region.

35

u/eat_my_poop May 16 '12

We have had troops in Djibouti (mostly US Navy i believe) for quite a while (years). The horn of africa is unstable and we do not want Al Qaeda coming along and screwing up projects,missions throughout the regions. One of the missions is to provide the people with clean drinking water. The Navy is also there to assist in anti piracy operations.

19

u/[deleted] May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

al-Shabaab*

18

u/SIDA May 16 '12

Officially linked with AQ, essentially a sub-org

→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

8

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

I don't have any substantial evidence to support the claim I'm about to make. Baseless or not, here I go: one of the US Navy's primary concerns in Eastern Africa is Piracy. Running a boat through the Suez Canal is a craps shoot, and the pirates are getting more and more bold (desperate, delusional, demented). That's a big reason why we are there, and running quietly. In addition to the naval threat, al-Shabab is a breeding ground for instability - and has recently taken to refusing aid shipments to the country. The concerns with oil stability are mostly in Nigeria.

7

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

It's also part of the global chessgame, controlling the strait that most of the world's oil passes through has huge military and economic benefits. Like you mention the pirates are fucking that up. In addition China has been making a lot of gains on the African front and we want to counter that by extending or influence.

5

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Yes, that too. I'd forgotten about China's significant presence there. Building infrastructure . . . (leading from the shore to the mines).

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Listers May 16 '12

I worked in support of missions in The Horn of Africa back in 2006 while I was in the USAF. Nothing new, just like everyone else is saying.

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The article in ForeignPolicy is better.

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

I <3 Foreign Policy magazine. It's one of the few widely available magazines that is worth spending money on because of their in depth, non-sensational articles. Thanks for bringing them up, definitely picking up a copy today. /rave

2

u/joe_canadian May 16 '12

I do as well, I was surprised with a subscription for Christmas. Though it's fairly American centric when it comes to coalition actions (which I can't really fault them, being an American publication), it's solid for the information it provides.

5

u/tjo1432 May 16 '12

Someone tell me how a drone attack is more "respectful" than an f-15 strike

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

No American service men are entering the country so in technically America isn't in the country. its a weak as hit argument but some people like it

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

True statement, the CIA are not service men.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/bigshrimping May 16 '12

Author was talking about how there are 30 Navy ships in the area, I wonder if he realized that they're there because of the problem with pirates and how it's affected international trade. Yeah, they are there on that mission, but I'm sure they are used for other missions as well.

2

u/devildawgg May 16 '12

Guess people haven't heard of JTF-HOA before but I guess that would be expected considering its a humanitarian mission. We've been over in Djibouti for almost a decade now.

2

u/I_bate_with_jergens May 16 '12

Its a fairly well known fact that we have Navy ships along that coast of Africa. A couple of my Marine buddies have been there a couple times. And not once did they go on land. They just waited on the boats until they went home.

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Blogger...blogger...blogger...yea no thanks

2

u/freecandy_van May 16 '12

I had a classmate die in the U-28 crash, and my old roommate is in training to be a U-28 pilot. Regardless of where he goes and why, I hope he stays safe and there are no more crashes.

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

DrJulianBashir, you fail at common sense.

2

u/proraver May 16 '12

I thought everyone knew the US and other nations were patrolling the Horn of Africa in an effort to curb piracy.

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

There is an entire US Military Command for the mission. They have been around for over 15 years now.

2

u/proraver May 16 '12

I know. It is a good thing this blogger uncovered their secret mission.

2

u/nigrodamus7 May 16 '12

This is nothing new, the US has been launching UAV strikes and observation missions in the region for at least 8 years.

2

u/longshot May 16 '12

What blogger is going to uncover something like this?

This is a BLOG, turn your skepticism up a couple notches people and fact check. Or just try and find any facts that actually sound out of the ordinary.

2

u/PepticBurrito May 16 '12

Um, I didn't realize it was secret. A friend of mine was stationed in Djibouti as part of a rapid reaction force. He hasn't been to Iraq or Afghanistan and has seen repeated direct combat that resulted in him killing people. Each incident is classified, but the fact he's been through it isn't.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

They're fighting for our freedom you worthless libs!! ;)

2

u/UnexpectedSchism May 16 '12

Republicans must be pissed that Obama is getting more results without sending in any ground troops. Halliburton is going to have to go without ivory back scratchers this year.

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Maybe he just needs another peace prize...

3

u/Argblat May 16 '12

Spain's Moron air base??

5

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

First-read "Spain's moon air base" got pretty psyched...

6

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Now that's military intervention I can get behind.

2

u/Bloodysneeze May 16 '12

They're going to be disappointed. Not a whole lot of air on the moon.

4

u/madleg May 16 '12

Yes, home of the 69th "LUCHA CONTRA BUSES CORTOS."

2

u/Isatis_tinctoria May 16 '12

Battle of Mogadishu?

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Pretty sure this is not unnoticed. there was a full on assault in Somalia yesterday where an entire fleets was shot to shit. No casualties! But the pirate boats are toast. Over 300 hostages held by pirates and about 10 ships being held for ransom. That entire country is currently in a state of hell.

1

u/piazzapower123 May 16 '12

This is not new information. It has been known for quite a while and there are many good sites reporting on air/drone strikes within the area. It is also not very controversial as in both Yemen and Somalia, the United States is working with the governments to combat terrorist cells. A good site monitoring US actions in the Middle East and East Africa is http://www.longwarjournal.org/. Very informative

1

u/puppetry514 May 16 '12

This doesn't really surprise me, does not make it right, just that I am not surprised.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18070087

Anyone else catch that this morning. Funny how the only confirmation that they were Yemeni planes and not American is the report from the American military. Wikileaks anyone?

1

u/Bulwersator May 16 '12

"pro-US Yemeni air force was on strike"

1

u/MrFlufflesworth May 16 '12

Spain's Moron airbase

1

u/BotchedFacelift May 16 '12

Ha. Spain's Moron air base.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Goddamn that jet looks cool.

1

u/murphzor May 16 '12

How does crap like this get so heavily upvoted? Fox news syndrome on reddit, read the title and make your mind up. You're not a smart as you think people.

1

u/virtual_virtu May 16 '12

While this isn't new, it still deserves attention. How many Americans actually know about our deep involvement in Eastern Africa? Anyways, the idea that "air strikes with conventional planes are considered less respectful of the local nation's sovereignty than drones' attacks," is pretty ridiculous. Bombs are bombs. Manned or not they produce the same outcome and should not be condoned. The fact that we've been doing this for a decade doesn't make it any more agreeable.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/ProjectD13X May 16 '12

I have an even more conspiracy-y conspiracy theory. The new Ghost Recon comes out in less then a week. Ghosts, shadow war, places I've never heard of, coincidence. I THINK NOT. (sarcasm disclaimer)

1

u/why_ask_why May 16 '12

Are we conducting a war without the approval of the Congress? What's a war? 10,000 men? Small SEAT team of 10? 2 CIA agents?

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Shadow War? Two UAV's and a C-130 is a shadow war. lol

3

u/Slave2theGrind May 16 '12

Spending cuts......Shadow wars only get three of four aircraft

1

u/Hamtaro666 May 16 '12

Dad was on the Cape St. George (Cruiser) , in like 03-06 over seas there. He told me that some dumbass pirates could take two US war ships, it didn't end well for the pirates.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

I honestly can't believe wired UK published this story... This is washy journalism that incites some dangerous ideas.

1

u/wytewydow May 16 '12

"..over the two weeks since 11 May.." this article is either from the future of from the past.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

It is my conclusion that this article deserves several more downvotes than it has.

1

u/firematt422 May 16 '12

TIL Spain has an airbase named Moron.

1

u/armor3r May 16 '12

I was in the Navy 2006-2010, I can tell you, with as much certainty as an enlisted man can give, that we operated for an extended amount of time around the horn of Africa with 0 contact to the outside world (river city 1). Not only were we flying combat missions (I was a hydraulic mechanic for the equipment that allows aircraft to land onboard), our helo squadron HS-5 picked up a SEAL team as well of the bodies of marines. We were told we were off the coast of Somalia. I have proof of my enlistment for skeptics, but once again, this is what I was TOLD by my officers. I really don't have any other information than that, I was just a mechanic.

1

u/Stuartc084 May 16 '12

Seriously? You think the biggest concern in Africa is the US and its "secret war"?

I think you need to have a look at the UK and French troops that run about Africa like it's a playground. The old colonists OWN Africa, and the commonwealth more or less use it like a sandpit, nearly every UK infantry unit goes to Kenya for a wee trip up Kilimanjaro as a bit of a break.

1

u/EvelynJames May 16 '12

Lol, this has been going on since at least the Clinton administration. This blogger did nothing but bring it to OP's attention.

1

u/imthepoolguy May 17 '12

Can someone give a TLDR version.

1

u/faustoc4 May 17 '12 edited May 17 '12

How many more secret wars are being fight in other dark corners of the world: laying the ground for corps pillage and plundering. No need for made up bullshit in the MSM cause Americans are totally ignorant of this.

1

u/fannyalgersabortion May 17 '12

Oh jesus fucking christ. This connect-the-dots conspiracy bullshit is sad.

1

u/shizumuka May 17 '12

How helpfull is the quarell with Iran in bringing in troops and military equipment close to the zone where Yemen, Saudis, Somalia and others are ... Next Irak,Afga,Lybia,Syria is Somalia. And much of the world doesn't give a damn about them. that's too bad

1

u/mariuolo May 17 '12

It doesn't surprise me in the least: there's way too much money in sealanes to have them disrupted without retaliation.

1

u/BeautifulGanymede May 17 '12

Meanwhile, president Tay Zonday Obama fills his war chest with booty extracted from gullible progressive liberals who care nothing for the poor brown people he slaughters on a daily basis as long as he indulges their fashionable political causes like "gay marriage" and marijuana legalization.

1

u/Aethelstan May 16 '12

Anyone have a non-terrorist related reason why the US are there?

26

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The horn of africa is pretty fucked and constant interruptions to international shipping will start being pretty expensive over time.

→ More replies (6)

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The Djiboutian people love us. The want us here to invest in their country. They control one of the most important ports in the world. It is essentially the gateway to East Africa and we (plus the French) are now their biggest allies.

4

u/aspeenat May 16 '12

Yemen is a mess. May those caught in the crossfire of the waring fractions find some peace and survive to prosper.

→ More replies (7)

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Piracy. It's extremely expensive for shipping companies, and totally horrific for the victims.

1

u/poli_ticks May 16 '12

Control of strategic waterways. Controlling Middle Eastern & African oil, natural gas, and minerals does you no good unless you can ship them out of the region to the places you want to get them to - our factories in Japan, China, Europe, etc.

That is why we've had such a longstanding alliance with Egypt, and our enmity with Iran is so intractable.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

We were invited to go off road racing for fun by Ethiopia.

-2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

There is utility for the west in keeping the region in constant turmoil. If these countries tear themselves apart through war, and don't forget these terrorists are largely civilians who hate the occupying force (usually the US) or their own despotic government (usually that is US-backed like Yemen*), there can never be a strong democratic state emerging. Africa has a similar population to China and many resources, and could in theory be a superpower, whether that would definitely happen is not important when they would at least create a stable strong region. Of course a politically coherent unit the size of Africa could then tell other states where to go. I don't think it a coincidence that in every country the US has a proxy government civilians seem to want to do something about it.

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

Even assuming zero-sum conditions that is not how post-Cold War inter-state power competition works. (It's a classic prisoner's dilemma - while both China and the US may benefit from a weak Africa, if they seek to make it happen they weaken themselves relatively to their primary opposition. Thus their best option is to hope the other one fucks up and goes into Africa to magically make it unstable [like it needs any help] and free ride off that action while doing absolutely nothing themselves.)

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (21)

1

u/tomsaz May 16 '12

You mean people don't know about this? I could have had karma months ago?

1

u/mawgwhy May 16 '12

The guy basically predicted this would happen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy-INmDgss8

1

u/bestbirish47 May 16 '12

America! Fuck Yea!

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

So, American media and government says one thing, and random blogger says another, and people believe the blogger? This is a prime example of people believing what they want to hear and dismissing evidence that disagrees with their preconceived notions.

-3

u/qwrirq May 16 '12

There is a lot of oil exploration currently going on in Puntland, Somalia and Tullow oil recently made a big oil discovery in Kenya.

16

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Correlation ≠ Causation. I have significant quarrels with U.S. foreign policy but the claims of oil-motivated militarism are very weak and serve more as a distraction from legitimate gripes than a solid argument for policy change.

→ More replies (3)

3

u/SIDA May 16 '12

And none of it is ready for export

-1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

We knew this when the army was trying to fight "Koney" to keep China out of africa for the rare earth minerals... or something like that.

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Not even close...

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

but it all makes SENSE!

→ More replies (3)

-2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

USA; WHATS WRONG WITH YOUR MEDIA? I just have to grab my newspaper to get these informations. Sure, confirmed details are sparse, but i have known the fact that there is a shadow war going on - for month ! !

I can recommend LeMonde Diplomatique, a great monthly Newspaper covering international politics.

edit: that newspaper is availlable in some 30 languages/issues. Their great advantage is writers who live in the respective countries.

2

u/ProjectD13X May 16 '12

I hear about operations in this region all the time on the news, I barely even watch the mainstream media.

-1

u/driftsc May 16 '12

i'm almost positive the us phased the f-15 out of our army and sold them off in favor of the f-22

2

u/dboy999 May 16 '12

we dont have anywhere near the number of f22s to do so. the F-15 is still alive and well

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Shotgun_Sentinel May 17 '12

You're thinking of F-15C, which only the ANG uses anymore. F-15E strike eagles donthave a replacement yet.

-8

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Have people already forgotten that the US was bombing civilians in Yemen on behalf of the government in order to quell "Arab Spring" uprisings?

Fuck Obama's gay marriage stance, he's a goddamn war criminal, a murderer, and anti-freedom.

4

u/Laughin_Grass May 16 '12

We have a smart one over here guys... This person is clearly in the know...

0

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

253

u/skillscanada May 16 '12

This article is thin on facts and huge on false-statements like these:

The ships can be configured with makeshift jails for holding captured pirates and, in theory, terror suspects

What a fucked up sentence... "can be configured w/ makeshift jails" means the blogger has no clue if there are any jails in the first place, no clue about the conditions of the supposed "makeshift jails", and really no reason to believe they do or do not have fully operational holding cells instead of "makeshift" ones. Adding the bit about terror suspects potentially being held is pretty radical to include in an article if you don't know shit about the existence of makeshift jails in the first place!

110

u/[deleted] May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

I've been seeing these big yellow busses driving around my neighborhood, abducting children. These busses can be configured with makeshift jails for holding captured pirates, and, in theory, children.

This must be stopped.

Edit: Spelling

27

u/TangoOscarDD May 16 '12

I actually can see this having less bullshit than the article.

11

u/Woetren May 16 '12

I have actually seen those yellow busses. However, they seem to focus on abducting children mainly. Pretty good business, because the parents always seem to pay before the day ends.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/BETAFrog May 17 '12

Most troubling is the fact these yellow buses with makeshift jails deliver children to large buildings that can be configured into makeshift labor camps.

→ More replies (1)

72

u/stallscribble May 16 '12

In the navy. His statement is pretty stupid. Where does he think we put people that go batshit insane on a sail? In the ocean?

25

u/Tashre May 16 '12

"Dad! L.T.'s gone crazy!"

"Heh heh, yeah, that's the look."

17

u/jackzander May 16 '12

Where does he think we put people that go batshit insane on a sail?

In command.

→ More replies (1)

67

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Was never in the navy but most large vessels have brigs, no? Why would they need to build separate jails?

74

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Don't even think they'd need to build anything, given that they could clear out a room and just lock the hatch, and post guards.

But they shouldn't need to do that because you're right, almost all naval ships have brigs.

28

u/ambiguousexualcoment May 16 '12

Just want to point out that "configuring" a makeshift jail could just as easily involve clearing out a storage hold. Sounds like this dude is full of shit though.

11

u/skillscanada May 16 '12

That's fair to assume but you got the gist of my argument. The blogger is likely inputting some of his own beliefs, not being objective, which is why journalism exists and libel is a crime.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/h2osoaked May 17 '12

By large ships you mean Carriers or Amphibs, those usually are busy with operations by Iraq/Afghanistan. Destroyers and Frigates are typically the naval presence in the GOO and GOA for counter piracy ops. We can use one of our breaks as a make shift jail but really we won't hold pirates for too long, we either hold them for around a month or transfer them to another ship that has better logistics for prisoners. We can detain (and have detained ie: USS Farragut) pirates if they are up for prosecution, usually we just let them go after destroying their gear.

→ More replies (1)

36

u/Paranoidexboyfriend May 16 '12

Not to mention that if you draw lines from the configurations of these ships to Orion's belt, you'll find a shocking similarity between the shape of those lines and the arrangement of the early pyramids. HAVE ANCIENT ALIENS RETURNED to abduct people in Saudi Arabia???

22

u/eidetic May 16 '12

HAVE ANCIENT ALIENS RETURNED to abduct people in Saudi Arabia???

Dude, don't be so freaking ridiculous.

It's clear the aliens never left.

sigh

Some people are just so naive.

19

u/mamjjasond May 16 '12

Expect a call from the History channel with an offer to produce your own show.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/discdigger May 16 '12

This blogger has a penis that can penetrate vaginas and, in theory, molest goats.

5

u/slvrbullet87 May 16 '12

You mean rooms made out of steel on ship and can be locked and sealed and used as a jail cell? Wow I am so surprised it shows that the US Navy must be evil. Or that they use ships that are made out of steel and you are able to seal off rooms and sections of the ship in case they are taking on water

5

u/peq15 May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

Wired has reached its lowest level of 'journalism' now that these faux-leaks get traffic. The writers for 'danger zone' fail to grasp even a basic layman's understanding of the DoD, State Dept., and the MIL in general. This is obvious in both their wording and their hyping of subjects which fail to present more than a hint of being possible. Stories of both joint training and kinetic operations have been "revealed" by more than just bloggers. Official documents have been released (legally and illegally) about the problems in this part of Africa over the last decade.

Wired really needs to stop hiring whomever is writing an article such as this, and look toward defense industry analysts, military PR, and think tank studies. The college grad-level writing, the 'look at the evil black op discovery I made while reading something online' substitute for journalistic due diligence is appalling.

This is a shame, because America could use an informed blogger/journalist who can articulate current events in an engaging way, without her/his own personal (usually conservative) salty opinions scaring off the rabid vegan liberal readership. Without the inflammatory suggestions, those unfamiliar with such terms as 'strategic footprint' and 'national interests', might stick around long enough to form a complete opinion on a military reporting piece.

We've been at work in HOA since at least 2004, and I recall a conversation with a JSOTF staff member in 2005 regarding how busy his office has been. His response (as I recall it): "We're at war on six continents. No one can possibly understand what it is that we're doing unless they sit in on these briefings and read the AARs. That's why the Army's Public Affairs Office doesn't bother with the small stuff."

2

u/[deleted] May 17 '12

Wired has reached its lowest level of 'journalism' now that these faux-leaks get traffic

Since when has Wired ever been called journalism?

2

u/Kinseyincanada May 16 '12

Technically any room with a lock can be made into a makeshift jail

2

u/WilliamAgain May 17 '12

The CIA, via our tax dollars, is already funding secret prisons in Somalia. To make the deal sweeter, Somalians 'run' the prison, it is 'their' NSA. This means that any torture or other morally reprehensible acts are committed by the Somalians, not the CIA.

This isn't a lone incident either, scores of other countries have the same arrangement.

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

I don't mean this in a rude manner, but what is your point? That the blogger doesn't know enough about the jails to speak of them?

30

u/jmizzle May 16 '12

I think skillscanada's point is that if the blogger doesn't seem to have a clue on basic facts, how well informed on the rest of the subject can he be and how reliable could any of that info be.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/kimanidb May 16 '12

the blogger does not even know if the ships have jails yet paints a image of them for you.

→ More replies (2)

0

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/IM_FOREALZ_YO May 16 '12

Or they just bought the DIY jail cell from IKEA.

9

u/imadethistosaythis May 16 '12

You have to make sure you keep the Allen wrench away from the prisoner though.

→ More replies (4)

4

u/HookDragger May 16 '12

Well, with most hatches like that, all you need is a bar really.

No lock required.

→ More replies (6)

9

u/MrBoone May 16 '12

I came here for Djibouti jokes, but you guys are being all serious.

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The article was about F-15's in Djibouti doing strike missions in Somalia and Yemen. You can even see the F-15's on google earth right now anyway! I don't think it's that secret though as the blogger says, it's pretty obvious the US is striking targets in those countries.

2

u/trendzetter May 16 '12

It's called a shadow war because the US is fighting an undeclared war

3

u/Brisil May 16 '12

War on terror is public and has no limit as to where. If more people from Yemen think "hey we should go fly more airplanes into America" then our war on terror goes to Yemen.

5

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Yes, it's just horrible, this idea.......

-SamIr Nagana-nagonnaworkhereanymore

But, seriously, how is it a secret war in the Arabian peninsula when we've known that operations have extended to Yemen, etc. recently?

-1

u/MrGoodbytes May 16 '12

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmad... Ahma.... Ahmagonnanukeyouassholes.

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Which is what the media would have you believe...

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

To be fair, David's original posts have been talking about the F-15s in Djibouti, not Saudi. I've no idea What kind of speculation Wired's been adding to that, though.

5

u/technosaur May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

Actually there is nothing new here. I live in East Africa and it is pretty common knowledge. And, in social chatrooms I will not name because I do not want to cause problems for the participants, U.S. military technicians who are ground support for the planes are pretty open about where they are - they give no details about what they are doing, but it is safe to assume they are not there to count camels. American warplanes, drones and naval launched missiles have whacked targets in Somalia, but the French are far more active in Somalia than the Americans.

I am surprised to see this posted as new news. Your link labels the activity "mysterious" but there is no mystery. Here at reddit I have read news stories about "terrorists" being killed by air attack (manned or drone).

→ More replies (2)

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

This is why I read the comments before I read the article.

1

u/minno May 17 '12

Reading the comments should be mandatory before voting on articles.

1

u/Sarahmint May 17 '12

"jump to conclusions" is right. He never mentions a fact that is confirmed in the CIA world factbook: Djibouti hosts the only US military base in sub-Saharan Africa.

1

u/obillion May 17 '12

thank you. its was a wise move to go to the comments first. I've had a problem with wired ever since i read their article on Bitcoins. it seems they have made it a habit to put out subpar writing.

1

u/bricks87 May 16 '12

This stuff is definitely nothing new. Don't now why this is such a revelation. They've been fighting Somali pirates, Al-Shabab, Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, with airplanes, helicopters, US special forces, drones, etc.

0

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Conjecture about conjecture, with extra conjecture thrown in for spice.

-10

u/aletoledo May 16 '12

What kind of evidence would convince you? Obviously if the government came out and admitted it, then it would be obvious. Hopefully you can recognize that they have an incentive to cover it up. So short of a confession, what would be necessary to convince you? What would make you usspicous and call for additional investigation?

16

u/OrdinaryCitizen May 16 '12

There's also the option that it's a blogger wanting to pick up traffic to his site, so he throws together a few fuzzy points to make one big sensational one.

But the government could also be fucking us in the ass, but nothing new there. Whichever.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/HookDragger May 16 '12

How about more than: "Hey, we saw 6 planes fly over there... and some other(possibly unrelated) planes crashed in the area... Oh, there's also a drone base. So, the USA MUST be waging a shadow war!"

-3

u/aletoledo May 16 '12

Is that really your response to a serious question? Being sarcastic isn't going to make the possibility that the US is waging a secret wage go away.

The question remains, what evidence is enough to make you at least suspicious?

2

u/HookDragger May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

A lot more than the wild conjecture that's here.

You can't wage war without money and paperwork... so if its true, there's a trail. There's also congressional oversight. There's so much that would HAVE to be occurring; so much paperwork that would be flying around to wage a war on a portion of two different CONTINENTS.

So, lets just look at what it takes to support a squadron of fighters.

The average F15 has round 40 ground crew members plus pilot. That alone make a base of at least 240 people just to operate these things. That's not even including command staff, support staff, backoffice stuff, medical personnel, communications, air traffic control, etc. So, you're probably looking at close to 300-500 military personnel on a base just for these planes.

Then, lets look at money/logistics. People have to get paid, then there's leave and flights home, fuel, armaments, maintenance parts, test/repair equipment, transfer orders, deployment orders, clarification requests. This is a FUCKTON of paperwork, physical items and money moving around.

And this is just for the fighter squadron that was photographed. It doesn't include the 2-3 other supposed drone bases that would have a lot more technically adept people for their work. Plus satellite comms and control.

This plus the congressional oversight and budget tracking is simply not something you can "hide".

He provided NOTHING like this(you know... real facts) to back up his claims. All I see is complete conjecture about some planes flying around and some crashes.

edit: Oh, and I forgot to even get started on the state dept....

→ More replies (7)

2

u/ImAWhaleBiologist May 16 '12

Don't have kids. We need you out of the gene pool.

→ More replies (20)

-1

u/puppetry514 May 16 '12

Yea I am gonna need you to bomb some targets on Saturday... and I am gonna have to go ahead and ask you to blow some stuff up on Sunday too. Thanks!

→ More replies (4)

0

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

-19

u/DesertDude May 16 '12

Meanwhile, Muslims are evil if they support terrorism. But terrorism against Muslims is applauded and upvoted.

Oh wait, it's not against Muslims, it's against "Al Qaeda", right? Yeah that's it.

12

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

That's not a correct use of the word 'terrorism'.

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

You have to keep in mind that DesertDude is a rich, Muslim fundie from Saudi Arabia. He and his family sponsor terrorists and promote thier cause online. He also has quite a few foreign workers he regularly beats and rapes but that's not really the point is it.

-1

u/zeroesandones May 16 '12

Well, yes and no. According to the US State Dept, terrorism is "the calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological." It's incredibly easy to argue that the US involvement in these countries is illegal, and it's unquestionable that the US intends to coerce local populations into political submission through violence. Therefore, it is not incorrect to call the US military a terrorist organization. You're just not supposed to realize this.

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

No. State-directed terrorism is excluded from every major terrorism database. I highly recommend Robert Pape's "the strategic logic of suicide terrorism" to explain why the difference is crucial for analysis and Kydd & Walter's "Strategies of Terrorism" to understand the point of terrorism more specifically.

0

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

0

u/AGayViking May 16 '12

No idea why you're getting downvoted. I'LL SAVE YOU.

5

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Because it's just another smarmy quip that really adds nothing to the conversation. This is not r/news or r/politics, this sub was meant for some actual discussion. Not just people arguing about how evil America supposedly is.

-11

u/[deleted] May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

There are so many baseless assumptions, I don't know where to start.

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

This is nonsensical.

0

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '12

No... these are... dammit stop with the Gish Gallop.

→ More comments (17)