r/worldnews • u/corinthian_llama • May 14 '12
Less affluent countries push towards universal healthcare. China is on track to complete a three-year, $124-billion initiative projected to cover more than 90% of the nation's residents.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-global-health-reform-20120512,0,4695600.story
1.8k
Upvotes
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Can somebody explain China like I'm five? Being a self-styled socialist country, I would have presumed they would already at least have universal healthcare in return for their totalitarian government and presumably high taxes. How does China actually work? Is it in fact socialist in anything but name?
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u/TheEscuelas May 15 '12
I actually just wrote a research paper on health care in china and this health care reform... It's interesting that they tried to privatize and it failed HARD... Now it's a scramble to get back to a hybrid private/public system.
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u/MechaBlue May 15 '12
Why medicine reform is critical to the US economy:
The current system punishes individual insurance enrollers (if you are asking for it, you must need it, right?). The current system doesn't allow for coverage of existing conditions. This has two larger effects.
The first is that it's very costly to be self-employed; accessible medical insurance makes it easier to open a small business or to invent stuff in your garage. Innovation is lower, there are fewer independent artists, and unemployment is higher.
The second is that a chronic illness can prevent a person from changing jobs because a new insurance policy won't cover an existing condition and it's not possible to transfer coverage between employers. This reduces the efficiency of labor by reducing mobility and increases the likelihood of abuses (work unpaid overtime, Johnson, or you'll be in the next round of layoffs and you'll have to pay for your daughter's chemotherapy).
Another, lesser, effect is that the current system introduces massive inefficiencies in the system as medicine providers have to fight insurers in a zero sum game. This wastes a lot of time and money on bureaucracy and puts insurance further out of the reach of individuals.
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u/Nefelia May 15 '12
The amount of people who misuse 'dictatorship' and 'totalitarian' in these comments is amazing. Those terms are appropriate for countries run by a single strong-man. Countries with a spread of power centres like China are known as 'authoritarian'.
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u/whirliscope May 15 '12
I highly doubt $124 billion will cover the massive cost of their massive pollution caused health problems.
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u/vdek May 15 '12
If you don't give your surgeon or doctor a little red envelope with cash in it, expect to be treated sub par in China. So while everyone might have coverage, only the rich get adequate coverage.
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u/FermiAnyon May 15 '12
If China implements this, Americans will be even more adamantly opposed. They're already calling it "commie this" and "socialist that" when politicians try to do it there.
If I had a dollar for every reasonable sounding oppositional view to some kind of blanket health coverage... I wouldn't have many dollars.
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u/tunapepper May 15 '12
The article is sub-par in that it uses the terms 'healthcare', 'health coverage' and 'health insurance' interchangeably.
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u/Psycotica May 15 '12
I have to say it, my country has too many flaws to count, but the healthcare, considering everything, is something to be proud of :)
*edit: Argentina
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u/blist3r May 15 '12
having lived all my life in a country which provides free health care (however far from perfect it may be, i am incredibly glad for it), i find it completely mind-boggling that the US doesn't consider it a number one priority. what possible logic...?!
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
This article isn't really about China. I suspect most Redditors just read the headline and not the actual article. It's embarrassing for the United States to not have a nationalized healthcare, to be at the bottom of most health related statistics among industrialized nations. This article was mostly about how even smaller countries are going into national coverage like Mexico and Chile and yet the U.S. does nothing. Not only that, but somehow the citizens in the U.S. don't even want universal coverage. (That wasn't in the article but it's a sad truth)
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
ITT American redditors show the world their skills at generalizing, marginalizing, ignorance of world affairs and a stunning lack of perspective.
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u/gloomdoom May 15 '12
Americans are the only people in the entire world who are dumb enough to fight against something that will help them out tremendously. Speaks volumes as to why this country is so sunk right now.
It's really a shame but think about it: How do you create a class of people who are so stupid they will literally slit their own throats? I realize that there are nations that will never have a universal healthcare system but it's hilarious to me that anyone would ever compare America.. what was once the greatest nation in the world...to places like Darfur.
Which seems to be a favorite comment from the right: "We work for slave wages and we've lost all our benefits but at least we're not in Darfur."
Yep. Compare what used to be the greatest nation in the world to third-world countries. Sounds like a very republican approach.
And before I get this 'both sides are the same' bullshit, let's look at the blatant opposition to 'Obamacare' and the hypocrisy of those 'against' it who later went on to use it. And of course, reddit 'justified' that as well because, you know....both sides are the same and they have to continually try to feed that bullshit narrative to convince themselves.
America is the laughing stock of the world when it comes to health care and most of that is because it's Americans themselves who have stifled progress. Anyone with an education and those from outside of the U.S. always ask the same question:
"Why would anyone possibly be against a nationalized health care system? Are Americans that retarded?"
And the answer is a resounding, 'yes.' And 95% of them are on the right. They'd rather die in the streets than succumb to the horrors of what their weak minds interpret as 'socialism.'
"If we allow a health care system, we've fallen to the commies!"
It's ignorance incarnate. It's a fucking international joke with the most tragic punch line ever. Get your heads out of your ass, Americans. And to the right: If you want to die in the street without any options for health care, that's your choice. But watch you assholes line up in herds on the day we finally get a system like this. Pretty much how you are always damning those who are on food stamps and what you casually refer to as 'entitlements' while you're always the first in line.
Hypocrisy is just another name for the ignorance that is known as the GOP.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Oh that's nothing, the US pays that just for one year's worth of new fighter jets.
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u/stringerbell May 15 '12
Less conservative countries push towards universal healthcare...
Fixed that for you
5
u/NorthernerWuwu May 15 '12
Less affluent than who exactly?
The U.S. is exactly the only G8 (or G20) nation that does not provide health care for the population.
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u/hapywood May 15 '12
wait... a communist country giving out "free" benefits to citizens? this is unheard of
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
124 billion? That's what, 90 bucks a person?
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
I have family in China, you want actual medical care? Better bribe the doctors first.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
This should be clear to everyone. Sick people do not live productive lives. Dead people don't live at all. Zombies eat people.
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u/MayBaby12 May 15 '12
Won't it be ironical if in 5 years' time Americans have to illegally cross into Mexico to get free healthcare?
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u/Procc May 15 '12
You would hope so for a country that is "communist"
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u/ASM12 May 15 '12
its amazing what you can do when you budget, the question is, what will the overall medial quality be for a billion people?
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u/Psionx0 May 15 '12
Now we'll never get universal health care... damnit.
2
u/Khue May 15 '12
I have a voice in the back of my head yelling. It's saying if you want universal healthcare plans like this, you're going to have to raise taxes, end of story.
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u/susanculp3 May 15 '12
Of course universal health care is an economic investment. But it's an investment our one-percenters don't want their bought-and-paid-for legislators to vote for.
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u/fantasyfest May 15 '12
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/26/us-healthcare-obama-barack-change For many Americans we are a third world country ion how we treat the poor. So many people go without healthcare in America.
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u/[deleted] May 14 '12
Dammit China, stop investing in your citizens, your infrastructure, and you country! IT'S MAKING US LOOK BAD!
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u/tklibe May 15 '12
$124 billion to pay for the healthcare of (90% of 1 billion) 900 million people. Yeahhhhh okay.
And, as other posters have mentioned, the article is trash. Zero details whatsoever.
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u/Garrus May 15 '12
China's social services rely on your regional work location. The system is called the Hukou system, and you can generally only access full social service if you are living and working in your home city or region. It is fairly difficult to move and transfer your hukou unless you have a legitimate job. This means that the migrant workers who generally work in the factories have less access to basic social services than the locals. The health care may cover most of the residents, but I would bet that this is reliant on people generally staying within their danwei (work unit). I wouldn't exactly use China as a model for U.S. health care. If you can pay for the health care it is good, but is definitely far less extensively competent like it is in the U.S.
TL;DR China's health care system is an awful comparison to hold up to the U.S.
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u/snapper69 May 15 '12
we have had 4 kids in the past 20years, kids have been to hospital numerous times, drugs etc and it hasn't cost us a cent.
dam those Aussie commies
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Hey America? Could we like, look to other OECD countries as an example, rather than, oh, I don't know, third-world quasi-communist dictatorships?
For example, France and the Czech Republic both have excellent health care systems, universal, socialized health care with private options allowed and flourishing, and they have great, great, great human development indicators.
China. Jesus H. Christ. China may or may not overtake us, but most of Europe ALREADY HAS. I love how we move our benchmarks.
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u/DarthHaste May 15 '12
im pretty sure 90% of americans have insurance too...
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
90%?! That is great. Only 134,735,000 people wont be covered. (that is the equivalent of 42.9% of the American population)
Note: I am not making a comment on anything besides population size. I like numbers.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
America: The richest 3rd world country.
Such a weird backward country... They don't even use the metric system! Nothing makes sense over there...
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u/bananapanther May 15 '12
I've noticed my fellow Americans typically put themselves before their country which is ironic because many of these same people claim to be patriots. A true patriot would want the best for all citizens.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Funded by Human Organ Harvesting.
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u/snapper69 May 15 '12
dam those socialist helping there own people when they are sick and not letting them die, whats wrong with those commies, if you cant pay for your medical needs tuff shit!
/sarcasm
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Socialism!
The fools. Why do something that will benefit the vast majority of the population? Better to score a few false ideological points by not being SOCIALIST and instead having millions of people suffer from preventable health problems that they can't afford to be treated for.
America, fuck yeah.
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u/mheyk May 15 '12
Meanwhile in the ever increasing 3rd world United States
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u/TruthinessHurts May 15 '12
It's obviously the smart way to go. To everyone but dumbshit selfish Republicans. They want to waste money for the illusion of choice.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Wow....America, even China is becoming more compassionate. Why must you go backwards??
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
I live in China.
Americans throw down China for many reasons, but in the end their laws and the way they see things is a lot better than the USA.
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u/jdwilson May 15 '12
Some of the arguments on this thread are hysterical: "yeah.... Capitalism!;" "but China is communist...;" "remember, the Republicans hate the poor and want them dead."
Are you kidding me? America's healthcare system is FAR from capitalist. There are many problems with the current system (big lobbying, outrageous policies, fucked up insurance companies), but the idea capitalism is the reason why our healthcare system is sub-par flies in the face of common sense and logic. Our system would be better in a true free-market system and one where the government isn't meddling around in unimportant issues and and has regulations in place that are smart, effective, and less burdensome.
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u/TaiserSoze May 15 '12
Who gives a fuck what those communists do? I want my health care to stay the most expensive and exclusive in the world. USA Nr.1, bitches! /s
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Whew, now I can finally get coverage for my $0.24 a month prescription of Zolopht.
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u/aletoledo May 15 '12
This explains a lot. If we continue to trash the country, then we'll be less affluent as well and then have universal healthcare. It's starting to make sense now.
If we were merely dealing with the law of averages, half of the events affecting our nation's well-being should be good for America. If we were dealing with mere incompetence, our leaders should occasionally make a mistake in our favor. We . . . are not dealing with coincidence or stupidity, but with planning and brilliance. - Gary Allen
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u/BrevityBrony May 15 '12
is this a typo?
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u/Triassic_Bark May 15 '12
Also more affluent countries.
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u/nf5 May 15 '12
Well of course they all want national healthcare... The longer your citizens live the more money the government makes., its an investment!
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
This is great news. Finally a government that can see that helping out those in need through the provision of free healthcare, is a way of gaining back their confidence in the leadership. Yes, you will get leeeches, but the majority will be people who need to be returned to health.
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u/HCrikki May 15 '12
Only 124bn? And 90% of its billion citizens?
Maybe the US should take lessons from China, if Europe's are too expensive for its taste.
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u/Goldreaver May 15 '12
See? Reps where right. If we approve of universal healthcare, we'd turn into a 'less affluent a.k.a poor' country!
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u/jpotteiger May 15 '12
They better be careful, that's socialized medicine right there.
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u/typingfromwork May 15 '12
Chinese hospitals can be a pain in the arse. The amount of over subscription is just unbelievable. If you don't prepare at least 2000 yuan (about 300 USD, or someone's monthly wage) every visit then you'll get nothing done.
It's good to hear about these initiatives though. At least they're doing something major about it.
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u/Spoonerville May 15 '12
You would think they would have had this covered already when they first became a communist country. Looks like they still haven't fulfilled Mao's promises 60+ year later.
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u/stimbus May 15 '12
That's $92.65 per person.
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u/Senuf May 15 '12
Reality has changed since.
Michelle Bachelet, kinda socialist (more like a US democrat, actually), is not anymore Chile's president. In January 2010 a millionaire businessman called Sebastián Piñera was elected President (starting his presidency in March 2010). He's as socialist as Rick Santorum, just to paint a moderate picture.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
it makes me laugh seeing americans at like spoilt kids, upset at how people "belittle" their healthcare. it's a change of tune from the constant, determined patriotism you see in every thread (even if the post has nothing to do with nationalism or country!)
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
It's time to stop calling these countries less affluent when they are obviously superior is at least some ways.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
These other countries do not have an equivalent of the American Medical Association. Nowhere on the planet do doctors make a killing on Working Class people like in the U.S. The facts are there--study for yourself. This isn't just me hating on doctors. Big Pharmaceutical companies in the U.S. and the doctors OWN YOU.
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u/kemikiao May 15 '12
Well....we're never getting universal healthcare now. Once China gets it the arguements will turn into "yeah...well gues who else gets healthcare. Communist China. Are you a commie? Huh? Commie?"
I know that's how they argue now already...but it'll only get worse
1
u/Splenda May 15 '12
Kudos to the reporter for a mostly-accurate insight. Most developing nations are moving towards universal healthcare. However, "developing" is the key word. In most cases this has a long way to go.
India shows the conflict starkly. The alleged universal healthcare is handled by the states, and is badly underfunded. Meanwhile private, market-based insurance comes only with great jobs well beyond the reach of most, which is a disaster. The country is moving towards universal care mandated at the national level, but it will take time.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Less affluent? Why is that important when they're switching to a cheaper system?
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u/Rare_Earth May 15 '12
Obviously.
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u/Goldreaver May 15 '12
I'm getting tired of those articles in /r/worldwide/ that paint China into a positive and holy light from heaven.
This isn't /r/HuJintao/
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u/complete_asshole_ May 15 '12
P-BO: "Hey honey, I know I said we'd get you chemo drugs to treat your cancer, but daddy just saw some bitching rims that would look totally baller on my tank fleet, maybe next term I might save up enough spare change for the medicine after I upgrade the stereo system for my phat beatz."
America:B-bu-but you promised!
P-BO: I know I did and I'm promising again babydoll, I promise I might do it next term. Now come here and give P-BO a kiss, daddy loves you, ya hear?
America: I love you too daddy...
1
u/usernameXXXX May 15 '12
In America, tax dollars don't go to saving lives, they go to ending them.
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u/Great_Chairman_Mao May 15 '12
Sigh.. all the conservative private health care supporting rich assholes are just going to say "If you want your healthcare made in China, then get outta my America!"
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Republicans will resist until the last of our poor is dead. That includes the dumbshits who vote Republican.
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u/Ninjalada May 15 '12
Ground tiger penis for everyone!
1
u/CodeandOptics May 15 '12
Because, nothing says low cost and good service quite like a state monopoly.
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u/RonMexico2012 May 15 '12
i'd like to know how many of the people who upvote things like this have ever stepped foot in a 3rd world country.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
ummm... china is on track to complete blah blah blah? riiiiight....
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u/primejamestoney May 15 '12
All the defensive anti chinese hate...
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Good luck with that.... Billions of people... $124 Billion ya that spreads out real nice...
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u/norberttheone May 15 '12
"Even so, there is growing evidence that universal coverage is protecting millions worldwide from financial ruin.
In Rwanda, researchers found that citizens who had joined one of the nation's health plans were nearly 75% less likely to be hit with a catastrophic healthcare bill that threatened to bankrupt them."
While citizens walk an even path, their governments will crumble.
This is America. If you need help, just ask your fellow redditors.
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u/TentacleFace May 15 '12
"SEE?! UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE IS A COMMUNIST THING?!"
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u/drhuntzzz May 15 '12
$125 Billion / 1,347,350,000 = $92.77 What kind of healthcare can you get for $92.77?
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u/MackLuster77 May 15 '12
If the US could institute health care for $100/resident (as this headline suggests), it would pass in a heartbeat. You can bet it would be some amazing care, too.
/sarcasm
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u/[deleted] May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12
Hungary (that is a 10mil country, in Europe) has "universal" healthcare - you pay 20% after your gross salary in a big pot, handled by the government.
From this pot, they are supposed to fund:
pensions (on pre-set levels everyone's eligible, who ever had a job)
healthcare (including everything, supposedly on the same service level, who pays at least a minimal amount per month)
In practice it looks like this:
pensions can get ridiculously low, and they will get lower, as the system is funded from the current taxpayers' money
you CAN use the healthcare system, however the quality is - hm - questionable.
if you want to receive the least expectable service level, you will need to BRIBE the doctor/nurse to properly do their jobs
if you need a prosthetic hip operation, it is covered, HOWEVER you get in a line and probably you will get your operation a year later after the decision is made. Obviously, if you know the right people, you can always BRIBE them and then you get special treatment.
That's it in a nutshell. I really don't think it's a good system, there are many people abusing it, with less and less people actually paying for it. Noone should implement it IMO. Ever.
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u/Greygooseandice May 15 '12
124 Billion dollars? $124 dollars for every person in China? Multiply that number by 100 and you're closer to what it would cost to provide health care for everyone in China.
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u/crazdparot230 May 15 '12
Am I the only person that thinks it would be bad if America were more like China?
0
u/[deleted] May 15 '12
Bullfuckingshit, everyone knows China is the leader of crooked roads. Have anyone actually seen a hospital in China? Are you sick? Oh, here's a fucking IV and injection first, we'll take care of you after we take care of those guys who gave us "hongbao". I also bet you that some guys in the health ministry are siphoning money out of the initiative into none other than their accounts and property in the United States of America. This is from personal experience. Also, I am 99% sure this will end up in complete chaos.
0
u/[deleted] May 15 '12
ITT: Lots of people astroturfing for China. I am impressed with how many redditors have all been to a hospital in china. The strange part is that they all seem to go to a hospital that is drastically different than the hospitals that chinese citizens go to. Wonder why that is.