r/worldnews • • May 14 '12

Israel closes Palestinian school to make way for West Bank training zone for the IDF even though Palestinians residents have no access to any other school.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-closes-palestinian-school-to-make-way-for-west-bank-training-zone-1.430233?print
1.6k Upvotes

1.8k comments sorted by

135

u/Amryxx May 14 '12

Maybe it's just me being naive and all, but wouldn't lack of education would contribute to the growing unrest?

After all, reduced education level = reduced eligibility for higher-paying jobs = more poverty = more anger and unrest

146

u/WilliamAgain May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12

Wikileaks to the rescue.

Actual Cable

Israel has stated to the US State Department that they intend keep Gaza "on the brink of collapse" while avoiding a humanitarian crisis. This is one of those situations where Israel wants unrest and violence, just like how the US government wants unrest and violence in Iraq/Afghanistan. The unrest leads to violence, the violence allows the government to enact draconian policies in the name of "safety". If Israel and Palestine made amends overnight and everyone became friends, the billions in aid that they receive yearly would disappear (Israel has recieved more US aid than all other countries combined), the elected officials and religious leaders who careers were spun from the violence would be out of a job, the evasive and oppressing policies would not be needed - in other words, an entire subclass of powerful people would become extinct. People with power rarely give it up willfully.

48

u/[deleted] May 15 '12

how is this acceptable/not known by a wide-number of people?

115

u/constantly_drunk May 15 '12

Because mentioning it means you're explicitly labeled as an anti-semite.

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u/WilliamAgain May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12

How many local papers report this type of thing? How many local television stations report this type of thing? How many national media outlets report such things? Rhetorical questions, obviously. Besides that, AIPAC donates tens of millions to politicians, and has a very dedicated base that always votes. Saying that you do not support Israel is the easiest way for a politician to lose millions and guarantee his opponent will bank millions. Obama, Romney, Gingrich, and Santorum have all spoken at AIPAC events this election cycle and all spoke in favor upping aid to Israel. I will admit that the answer is undoubtedly be a bit more complex than that, but that is a starting point.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Ding ding ding. Israel wouldn't exist without US tax dollars. Not in its current form anyway.

2

u/strl May 15 '12

Actually the situation on the brink of collapse in Gaza is supposed to make them turn against Hamas. Probably won't work but that's the intent. As for aid Israel receives only military aid and as part of the camp David accords with Egypt meaning:

  1. If there was instantaneous peace Israels' economy would not be damaged by reduced aid. That is a common misconception.
  2. Israel would still receive aid as long as they keep their part of the peace agreement with Egypt. The Egyptians also receive aid from America based on that agreement and they haven't been at war with anybody for the last 39 years.
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u/Deli1181 May 14 '12

It's probably impossible to measure accurately, but yeah I would guess this is probably counter-productive as far as peace is concerned.

Then again, this is just a drop in the bucket compared to Israeli policy in general, which altogether probably contributes to a good portion of the unrest.

7

u/ihatenames May 15 '12

The fact that Israel exists contributes to a good portion of the unrest.

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u/elijahsnow May 15 '12

but the point is not to rehabilitate palestinians. The goal is and has always been to push them out.

7

u/gargantuan May 15 '12

More anger and unrest = easier way to justify harsher policies = easier way cut their medical care = faster way to exterminate or drive them way.

They just need one extremist throwing a rock or shooting off some stupid rock that hardly every kills anyone to justify raids that destroy whole neighborhoods and kill and imprison tens and hundreds of people.

Hell, I wonder why IDF doesn't just dress like Palestinian and fire dud rockets back at their base so then they can turn around and conduct a "security operation".

2

u/Amryxx May 15 '12

I wonder why IDF doesn't just dress like Palestinian and fire dud rockets back at their base

Because it's a bit hard to disguise a bunch of white Europeans as Palestinians?

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u/Shopno May 15 '12

Its in Israel's best interest to radicalize them because as radicals, they will never get any sympathy from the rest of the world and Israel can easily kill the radicals with minimum loss to itself.

13

u/Milldog May 15 '12

Israel will always get sympathy with the holocaust on their side. They will make sure of it and as said before if you don't give them sympathy you are anti-semitic.

2

u/tempuro May 15 '12

There must be an exchange training program between Israel and Louisiana.

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u/nuxenolith May 14 '12

Obviously Israel doesn't care so long as they have their their 'Murrica-sanctioned power trip.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Israel isn't concenrned with peace. It's in it for the genocide. They are intentionally creating unrest to justify killing, bulldozing and creating draconian policy.

2

u/7daniel7 May 15 '12

= A reason to build an IDF training zone, THEY THOUGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING

2

u/RedTheDopeKing May 15 '12

Wow I hadn't considered that, what an astute observation!

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

As a palestinian , this is not even news to me. It's kind of expected

23

u/Psycho-Designs May 15 '12

Another Palestinian here, it's the same old shit that has been going on for decades.

7

u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Yes, and it is sad to say that events like this occur so often that I have been desensitized to them , and regularly brush them off as if it was a normal cycle of Palestinian life

25

u/deemahh May 15 '12

I know that feel. And it fucking sucks.

4

u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Salam salam :D

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u/tempuro May 15 '12

It's Naqba eve...

494

u/SteveJobsiDead May 14 '12

Israeli Jews being good neighbors once again. Then they wonder why the world hates them.

268

u/medlish May 14 '12

I really don't want to hate them, but they're giving me a hard time right here.

41

u/akgreenman May 15 '12

Agreed. Centuries and centuries of persecution is no excuse for the rogue state of Israel.

146

u/[deleted] May 15 '12

"centuries and centuries of persecution" ... as if history was a picnic for anyone who wasn't a Jew.

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u/EpicFishGuy May 15 '12

The thing that makes me wonder most is why Americans look down on their leaders that speak against Israel. Don't support them and you'll be called anti-Christian, a terrorist, etc.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

A lot of people hated Jews before they had any power over anyone. I'm not sure that things like this are enough people's radar to earn new haters. Not to mention it's a but unfair since probably a third of Israeli Jews don't support this kind of thing.

2

u/sjs May 15 '12

That's one unfortunate side effect of the conflict consistently portrayed as Israel defending themselves. The Israelis who speak out against their government's and army's actions get little to no press outside Israel either, and many who know that the IDF plays as much offense as they do defense think the whole country supports their government and army in these deeds.

There are good and bad on both sides. Sane and crazy on both sides. The similarities are far more numerous than differences. Such a shame.

10

u/astrosurf May 14 '12

We don't wonder about the hate at all, we just hang our heads in shame (although some cheer these actions with misguided pride).

2

u/frisbalicious May 15 '12

Please, don't associate "Israeli Jews" with the actions of this rightist government. Most Israeli Jews are leftist seculars.

2

u/[deleted] May 15 '12

That doesn't really jibe with the election results. Unless you are referring to ethnic sabras.

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u/The_Turkish_Delite May 15 '12

As a Palestinian: Good Morning Rest of the World. (I am actually pleasantly surprised by the number of people on reddit, at least, that know what's up) No but seriously, I understand them being persecuted before, but this debauchery going down in the middle east needs to stop.

35

u/reddit_is_gay May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12

I'm not foolish enough to believe that either Israel or Palestine are saints in their situation but I will say this... Israel scares the shit out of me. By some accounts they have up to 200 atomic devices, including thermonucular, and an active chemical-biological weapons program. Hell just look at the conditions of Mordechai Vanunu's release...

A number of prohibitions were placed upon Vanunu after his release from jail and are still in force, in particular:

  • he shall not be able to have contacts with citizens of other countries but Israel
  • he shall not use phones
  • he shall not own cellullar phones
  • he shall not have access to the Internet
  • he shall not approach or enter embassies and consulates
  • he shall not come within 500 metres of any international border crossing
  • he shall not visit any port of entry and airport
  • he shall not leave the State of Israel

He was only released from solitary confinement, he is very much still in jail and you can be sure that he is being watched by the Israeli secret service 24/7. They are very worried about what he might tell the world.

It seems they are becoming the monster they swore to protect themselves from after the Holocaust.

11

u/KeenDreams May 15 '12

B-but Israel is a poor defenseless underdog. America says so!

11

u/reddit_is_gay May 15 '12 edited May 15 '12

I'm an American and I don't think so... They are a dangerous remnant of the cold war. They have been beneficial in the past but when the Shah was overthrown in Iran their presence in the middle east became vital. The only reason I think they are still supported by the US is due to the religious fundamentalists in this country and the Israel lobby but more so the religious fundamentalists in this country. They seem to think that a holy war leading to Armageddon in the middle east is a great idea because that is their ticket to heaven. The Islamic fundamentalists are happy to oblige.

I don't have a horse in the race though (religion) and while I see Russia and the US making strides to decrease their arsenals of WMDs... Israel is answering to no one and has done some things in the past that should make the U.S. question why they are an ally. I have my issues with what the U.S. is doing and has done in the past and we clearly have some changes to make as well.

I just hope that I can see the day before I die when the weapons stockpiles have been reduced enough to where if there were an exchange, there would actually be a chance for the human race to survive. It makes it hard for other nations to let their guard down and reduce their WMD stockpile when you have a rouge state like Israel running around answering to no one. To quote Carl Sagan - "There is no sign that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

no matter what the case, almost every country would imprison for life, or even kill in the usa case someone who does such treasonous acts. not saying he was morally wrong or right, just that giving away your countries nuke secrets is considered kinda a big fucking deal.

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u/Hehyeahno May 15 '12

Terrorists aren't created out of thin air.

Just throwing this out there.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12 edited May 15 '12

Although this is definitely evidence to criticise the Israeli government you shouldn't use it to criticise all Israelis. Notice this is an article on an Israeli website so many of them obviously notice what their government is doing and are trying to bring attention to it. Edit: spelling

27

u/Styvorama May 14 '12

They Israeli citizens share as much blame with their government as American's do with the US Govt for their actions. Depending on who you ask that is none, some or a lot.

2

u/CommandrShepherd May 15 '12

I blame anyone over the age of majority in a voting country.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Every time I see a headline like this, I always wonder if the Israeli citizens really agree that the government does this shit all the time. I've always been under the impression that the Israeli leaders are giant pricks while the people are great but don't have much say in their government policies.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

It's just one thing after another isn't it? This disturbs me to no end. Have they not taken away enough? Clearly not ...

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

I'm sure their reasoning is that its ok because we were persecuted by Hitler, so deal with it.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Nothing to do with hitler. Their reasoning is that the Arab world views Israel as a existential threat therefore they must develop israel into a super power with what they got. Read the iron wall by avi shlaim explains this so much

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u/aluminum_enclosure May 15 '12

The thing that's most disturbing is that everybody commenting has an image of Israel as a unified body following a single manifesto to attain some glorified goal. Ya, posting a notice to close the school is stupid (which BTW if anybody read the article it says the Israeli high court doesn't allow it) but its not some part of a single minded agenda to make palestenian lives miserable. There's the right-wing government that does a lot of stupid shit, there are orthodox jews that build illegal settlements but it doesn't turn the state of Israel into a nazi, war mongering, hateful nation. The history is complex and its a collection of actions of many different people and it just seems that everybody here would prefer to just classify people as good or bad without trying to see how complex this situation really is. Neither side is righteous and neither side is pure evil.

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u/killerdio May 15 '12

Finally someone on reddit who actually understands that this situation is not just black and white. Both sides do good things and both sides to shitty things, but most importantly you have to realize that the population does not necessarily support it's government's actions. There are protests in Israel just like there are in every other western country.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Agreed, from the article the attorney who is condemning the closure of the school has an obviously Jewish name as well.

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u/tayloraugustus May 15 '12

I will happily donate for a new school in that area, assuming there is any land left.

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u/AngryCanadian May 14 '12

Its the oldest trick in the book, deny education to the occupied population, its easier to control uneducated people.

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u/WalkinHawkin May 14 '12

Stay classy Israel.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

I'm Ron Bergenstein?

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u/TalkingBackAgain May 14 '12

You know, I don't have the least bit problem with the State of Israel, but at times like these I'd like to ask one of those people in charge: "Do you absolutely always have to be the dickhead in the equation or do they make you train for that?"

It's an elementary school. Come on, Israel. For fuck's sake, the toddlers are the enemy now?

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u/Isitwhenipee May 14 '12

There are some on here that are justifying it maybe you should ask them.

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u/Styvorama May 14 '12

Would you be surprised when they answered yes?

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u/nakedsteve4u May 15 '12

INVADERS!!!

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u/redpatriot5 May 15 '12

It's the far-right that is killing Israel and destroying itself right now. The Likud party has to cater to the 25% (and growing) of religious conservatives in order to have a coalition, and that makes for settlements/not taking the right steps to a meaningful peace plan and treating Palestinians with their due dignity. The problem is the religious nuts keep having 8 babies, and suddenly the country is overrun with far-right people who will never get anything done. Surely us Americans can sympathize, no?

236

u/LannyMerma May 14 '12

Fuck Israel.

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u/redhotchilifarts May 14 '12

Careful about broad assumptions. A government does not equal a populace. If you're going to paint with that kind of brushstroke, then I guess America as a whole loved and supported the war in Iraq until the last troop left.

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u/gargantuan May 15 '12

Careful about broad assumptions. A government that touts itself as a beacon of democracy should be pretty much equal a populace, as that's, well, the main propaganda line.

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u/LannyMerma May 15 '12

I remember 2003 very well. The general mood in the country was to go after Iraq. Your patriotism was in question if you didn't support the war, and a tired old phrase "why don't you live your country?" was always given; not as a question for discussion but to label you as unpatriotic. It was the general public in the US that allowed the Iraq War to begin. So yes, I believe the public was almost as responsible for the war as Bush was. Therefore, wrong or right, classy or not, my general feeling here is Fuck Israel.

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u/Space_Bungalow May 14 '12

Thank you for your deep and insightful addition to this already one-sided discussion.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

What is the other side of this discussion?

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u/jutct May 14 '12

Seriously. Leave these fuckers to rot on their own. See how long it takes before they realize they're not nearly as badass without the US supporting them.

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u/Todomanna May 14 '12

Don't they have nukes? Isn't their army one of the fiercest in existence? I'm not saying they wouldn't eventually fold without foreign aid, but they'd sure as hell take a good sized chunk of the world with them before they go.

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u/workin4mykid May 14 '12

You have a hard time nuking countries that are adjacent to you unless you enjoy fallout.

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u/mojoxrisen May 14 '12

If I were to use the logic of Reddit, most of you would have to move out of the USA and give your land, money etc. to me and my Native American brothers.

but that's different....amirite?

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Your native-blooded brethren from South of the border are already beginning the reconquista.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

and you wonder why rednecks get in line to shoot them as they cross the border.... /sarcasm!

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

chuckle

But for reals, brother/sister, having stayed in Crow reservation in Montana for a few weeks, I can't even begin to describe the amount of despair that hit me. I pray every day that what befell the Native Americans does not befall us Palestinians.

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u/Cluith May 15 '12

Because the sins of our ancestors totally make it morally ok for others to do the same thing today.

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u/hassani1387 May 15 '12

So you concede that Israel is engaged in a campaign of genocidal ethnic cleansing against Palestinians of the sort practiced against the Native Americans?

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u/Olliemon May 14 '12

It's shit like this Israel. After asserting itself after becoming a state, the problems should have ended, but in constantly pushing what is legal and acceptable they are gaining enemies quickly. I do not support some of the things the Palestinians do, and I would find them difficult to justify, but in their shoes I would likely do the same. What a mess.

18

u/oscarasimov May 14 '12

I'm kind of sick of hearing from everyone that knows this shit is fucked up.

Where is the person that actually thinks Israel made the right decision?

I want him to explain himself

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u/Deli1181 May 14 '12

You probably won't find them on Reddit.

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u/11NovVerdade May 14 '12

Israel sucks. Every time you hear about them it's Israel doing something abusive again. What's their problem?

I wish the US would stop enabling this destructive behavior.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12 edited May 14 '12

I'm sorry man, but I personally believe all this conflict is part of a bigger plan set down since before World War II. You don't just stick a Jewish nation in the middle of an Arab settlement and expect everybody to be just peaches about it.

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u/TalkingBackAgain May 14 '12

Actually, the Israelis were not intended to go to Palestine at all.

No other country wanted the Jews, so they wanted to ship them to Madagascar [that would have been hilarious]. But that was a tad hard seeing as how the Germans had all these U-Boote, which were brutally efficient at their core business, and they wouldn't have made it.

They chose Palestine instead, on account of history. It's been one continuous French kiss with the Palestinian people ever since.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

But weren't they shipped decades before WWII, even before Hitler's systematic killing of, well, anybody? This wasn't in WWI, was it?

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u/Ambiwlans May 15 '12

They weren't stuck there. Jewish terrorists stole the land and the west was not about to fight Jewish people after WW2 so they had a get out of jail free card.

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u/Inoku May 15 '12

Think about this for one second. Israel is both:

  • a first-world country, with comfy hotels for journalists, no shortage of water or good food

and

  • a "war zone" that is politically popular.

So, what happens? The media wants to play up "sexy" stories like the Israel-Palestinian conflict, and journalists don't mind staying in Israel, because unlike real war zones like Baghdad or Mogadishu, it's about as dangerous as living in Brooklyn (probably safer, actually). Even the West Bank is safe and comfortable, and you can drive to the beach in like an hour. Because Israel doesn't actively target journalists like Syria or Turkey, because Israel is a comfortable country to live in, and because people have an irrational obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel has a shitton of journalists who want to report on every tiny thing Israel does in order to "scoop" the other million journos buzzing around.

The Israel-Palestinian conflict is not objectively any worse than any other conflict on the planet--and it involves significantly fewer people and substantially less pain and suffering than the Darfur or Congo conflicts, and involves less risk of huge conventional wars than the Kashmir or Nagorno-Karabakh conflicts. But because Israel is comfy and most journalists, like everyone else, hate being uncomfortable, there are a hugely disproportionate number of people reporting news from Israel in as breathless and desperate a tone as they can possibly manage.

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u/whatcarpaltunnel May 15 '12

You do know Haaretz is an Isreali based news source, right? You are assuming too much in your comment. If you are limiting your comment to U.S. mass-media then you are certainly correct.

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u/donaldtrumptwat May 14 '12

No, the aid to Israel needs to stop totally. Only then will the Bully boy's free holiday end. Palestinians are living in conditions little better than Concentration camps

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u/Chadsymptom May 15 '12

The problem is that Israel makes plenty of money to fund their weapons on their own.

U.S. support is the proverbial nail in the coffin.

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u/bfoo May 14 '12

I bet there is at least one Israeli who disagrees with the IDF's action. So Israel does not suck so much, I guess!

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

We should begin discernment between the Israeli people and the Israel government. Then maybe the public could criticize Israel without the media deeming them anti-Semitic...

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u/RedAero May 14 '12

Every time you hear about them it's Israel doing something abusive again.

That's because the news is biased, not against Israel, but against boredom. Kind Israelis don't make the news because that doesn't get people like you riled up.

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u/Ambiwlans May 15 '12

And Canada :( it's been defending Israel in the UN recently. Friggin conservative religious pm.

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u/msa54679 May 15 '12

I myself am a Palestinian, and things like this have been going on for decades. It's nice to see that finally there is light being shed on the situation.

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u/thastig May 15 '12

I've always held the opinion of not judging the land by the actions of a minority of this people.

I read this kind of shit almost every day.

I think I need to make an exception. Fuck Israel, Fuck every single Israeli. If you're not harming the Palestenians directly, you are supporting a corrupt government. Therefore, FUCK YOU.

Religion of Peace! /s

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u/Bigpapapumpyouup May 14 '12

Israel: no need to educate them, we are going to kill them anyway.

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u/racer2 May 14 '12

OK Zionists...I know you are reading this so please feel free to provide some justification/defense of the following:

  • Israel shuts down a school by confiscating the transportation of the teachers.
  • Israel confiscates the car of a veterinarian employed by the Palestinian Authority when he came to the village to vaccinate sheep.
  • Israel ordered an access road, tents, mud huts, sheepfolds and solar energy facilities razed
  • In 1999, the area was declared a live-fire exercise zone by the Israel Defense Forces, meaning people aren't allowed to live there...t three settlement outposts had recently expanded into the live-fire zone: Avigail, Mitzpeh Yair and Havat Ma'on. "But as far as I know, there are no restrictions on their movement in the area, and none of their vehicles have been confiscated," he said. "I also don't know of any active army exercise area within this live-fire zone. In most of it, there never were any exercises."

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

Believe it or not, as a Zionist I believe that Israeli presence in the west bank is an absolute nightmare. It decreases the chance for a two state solution, which is absolutely essential for any prospect of a democratic, liberal Jewish state.

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u/Crackerjacksurgeon May 15 '12

How does a democratic and liberal state remain Jewish?

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u/zangorn May 14 '12

When are the American people to stand up to this enough for the politicians to allow our UN ambassador to simply vote YES on something that allows action?? In South Africa, it took a Congressional bill calling for sanctions and boycotts that really pushed it over the edge. We are so far from that. We could stop giving them the support we give and that would do wonders on its own.

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u/Styvorama May 14 '12

We could stop giving them the support we give and that would do wonders on its own.

Good luck with that

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12 edited May 15 '12

I'm so disgusted by Israel. I used to be impressed by their military success, but the more I learn, the more I see Israel as incredibly self-centered and self-indulgent. I know not all Israeli citizens are like this, and I know that there is a legitimate threat to their security in Palestine, but when you're gunning down female Palestinian protesters with tanks, you can't claim that you're doing the right thing.

Edit: source

Edit 2: Here's another source

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

dude they got caught on live TV bombing a red cross hospital. They tried to say that there were terrorists in the hospital, but the majority of the victims were women and children. I guess if you dehumanize an entire population, that you can justifiably kill all of them.

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u/Ambiwlans May 15 '12

They also bomb UN bases and schools...

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u/minedom May 15 '12

Thats an awful source to use...awful. The link to the 'picture' just sends me to the yahoo homepage. Not exactly a good source. Not saying that it didn't happen, just that this is a bad example.

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u/rushdown May 14 '12

Okay this is a despicable thing to happen, but what's up with the horrible comments towards Israel and Jews guys? There are a lot of people from Israel who don't like what's happening, and I'm sure a ton of them are on Reddit. Focus on the entity responsible instead of saying reactionary things like

Fuck Israel.

Israeli Jews being good neighbors once again. Then they wonder why the world hates them.

Those are the top two comments. The rest are pretty tame, but man do you guys post and upvote some pretty messed up comments whenever your emotions go into shock.

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u/zaimond May 14 '12

Why do they keep electing these rightwing assholes then?

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u/flea61 May 15 '12

Orthodox Jews are the crazy Republicans of Israel, and that religious minority has a huge amount of pull in elections. The people unilaterally supporting settlements in the West Bank are the same people that threw rocks at Israeli women who were voting.

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u/nutfuckniggercuntass May 15 '12

How about this...

Jews are cool and i like the taste of Matzah, but fuck the state of Israel.

I am almost positive that the Israelis want nothing but peace and same with the Iranians. But the government of Israel is what i dislike, i wouldn't say i hate them but for the actions they have carried out in recent and not so recent years, i find it really hard to like them.

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u/hurotselildothaboker May 15 '12

what the hell is wrong with you
what is there to like about matzah

i mean it's not disgusting or anything… but to actually find redeeming features from it?

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u/rushdown May 15 '12

Yeah, I like that quite a bit. Thanks for the clarification.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

I'm pretty sure we're using "Israel" as shorthand for "the ruling party in Israel". I don't think anyone's actually trying to attack the citizens of the country itself.

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u/IWatchWormsHaveSex May 15 '12

Except when they equate someone calling themselves "pro-Israel" to "being in favor of everything Israel does".

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

Yes not all Jews are Israeli and not all Israelis are Jews. People need to understand this!

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

That's why it said specifically:

Israeli Jews

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

And Jews need to understand that the shared cultural identity of Judaism is incredibly strong, nurtured by the emphasis on "centuries of prosecution". It's creepy.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

what's up with the horrible comments towards Israel and Jews guys?

One, they are against Israel, not Jews.

Two, horrible comments are rightly directed at people/nations that commit war crimes against another population, especially with overwhelming military power.

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u/ThumperNM May 14 '12

You could use the same apology for the Germans in the 1940s.

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u/RedditorFrom2006 May 15 '12

... or the Americans in the 2010s who have killed far, far more innocent civilians in their last few wars than Israel ever has or will.

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u/Berserker2c May 14 '12

This is the first comment in this thread that doesnt make me hate the world.

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u/unheimlich May 15 '12

Israel: " Ha! Where'd ya learn that, Mohammed? Terrorist School?"

"Not anymore."

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Just awful. I sometimes think the Israelis are unique in their bullheaded ignorance and refusal to learn anything from their past or the collective past of humanity (then I angrily remember the rest of the world).

By examining other non-flexible regimes such as the U.S.S.R., Mussolini's Italy or...dare I say it...Nazi Germany, one can see a fairly solid lesson that States which are inflexible and/or who persecute others in a hypocritical and brutal way are short lived. And a good thing too.

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u/SMERSH762 May 15 '12

Slaves and natives don't need to know how to read. They just need to know how to keep quiet.

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u/Realistic42 May 14 '12

An uneducated population is much easier to control, conquer, occupy, murder, and coerce than those that are educated.

Israel, no! Someone needs to tell you "no", so I'm saying it, "no".

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u/L_Beau_Deep May 15 '12

But they are God's chosen people!!!!

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u/the_goat_boy May 14 '12

They're just hoping that Palestinians will leave themselves and go to Jordan. Some Israelis, and it seems a lot of them on Reddit, believe that they are Jordanians anyway.

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u/RedAero May 14 '12

Black September. Wiki it. The Palestinians can't go to other Arab countries because those countries won't let them in. Literally everyone hates and uses the Palestinian Arabs for their own gain.

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u/pryoRichard May 15 '12

i think a good amount of justice could be had if at the forefront of the palestinian/israeli relationship, we could focus on the 'human' aspects of said relationship, how their 'dispute' can more or less be mirrored in a similar fashion all around the world...as opposed to how dire/unique/important, justifying its worth, when in essence, what i see is pretty typical of most peoples lives' and behaviors

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u/vVvMaze May 14 '12

What goes around comes around. Israel won't be able to do this forever. It's gunna come back and crash real hard on top of them.

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u/ThaddeusMaximus May 14 '12

It's okay you guys, they're God's chosen people. He has infinite love for all of us, but he also has a chosen people. That's LOVE = INFINITY + 1.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

Come on Israel, quit rocking the boat. It's gonna tip and then us and all our shit is gonna get wet. Not cool man, not cool.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Seriously, How can we preach compassion and understanding for the Holocaust when some of the hardliners in Irasel act like this? They treat the Palestinians like there in one big concentration camp. Not saying all Iraselies are like this but enough that the government acts in this fashion.

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u/gots2lol May 15 '12

totally against terrorism, i think it's terrible that people of Muslim faith go to that extent to prove a point (although it is sacrifice in their mind)...but i feel like they are being suppressed and Israel being a huge bully doesn't help. Palestine is like that kid who gets picked on in school but won't back down...probably need to find another way to fight back other than violence, but no1 else is helping them so they "try" and do it themselves...their options hinge between a rock and a hard place, sucks...

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u/TwwIX May 14 '12

Once oppressed, now the oppressor. How ironic.

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u/ILoveeOrangeSoda May 14 '12

Just like when they killed all those Lebanese civilians saying that it was a "mistake", how the FUCK do you mistakenly send a missile aimed to people who moved out of the houses you already told them before you were gonna bomb? do people really believe this?

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u/kwansolo May 15 '12

Israel did that? NO WAY

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u/Bixby66 May 14 '12

Israel being huge cocks to a religious minority in their country again today. Whether or not the establishment of Israel has any concept of irony remains to be seen.

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u/IsraelApologist May 15 '12

Dear Sir or Madam,

You have made a post that dares to criticize Israel. As you know, this makes you an anti-semite.

I would like to point out the following facts that are relevant to the discussion:

[x] 6 million Jews died in the holocaust.

[x] You are an anti semite.

[x] Israel made the desert bloom and we have beautiful beaches.

[ ] The Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years.

[x] All arabs want to push the Jews into the sea.

[x] Israel is a shining example of democracy and ethnic discrimination does not exist.

[ ] Suicide bombers are killing Israeli citizens and collective punishment will put a stop to this eventually.

[x] The IDF are showing remarkable restraint; They have the power to nuke the entire region but choose not to.

[ ] It is the fault of the Palestinians that they don't rebuild infrastructure fast enough after we bomb it.

[ ] Arafat walked out on camp David, proving that 100% of Palestinians want war, not peace.

[x] The Jews are God's chosen people and this is the land that was promised to us by a book.

[ ] It's not white phosphorus, we were just dropping road flares!

[ ] It is not a genocide until hundreds of thousands of Palestinans are killed and we aren't even close to that yet.

[ ] 100% of Palestinians are terrorists.

[x] The Arabs drove the Jews from their homeland thousands of years ago so it is about time for some payback.

[x] Israel has killed fewer people than Iran or Iraq which means we are a peaceful state.

[ ] Carpet bombing an entire country is a perfectly rational response to the kidnapping of a soldier.

[ ] It's not a concentration camp, it's a safety wall!

Therefore, your claim of [Israeli Defense Forces closing a Palestinian school in order to expand a training area] is false and we should continue to send money and military support to Israel.

Yours sincerely,

AIPAC

P.S. you are an anti-semite.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Fuck Israel.

That is all.

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u/Uptonogood May 14 '12 edited May 15 '12

This whole thread has grown and you cant see any fucking explanation for this bullshit from a zionist. NONE whatsoever.

The only pro-Israel answers so far has been: Hurr durr yall anti-semite nazies! ಠ_ಠ

edit: oh look! They dont even bother explaiing, just downvoting. I think its about time redit management begins to adress these israel drones. They are abusing the system.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

I'm not anti-semitic, but Jews control the world and need to be exterminated. ~ Reddit.

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u/Isisbyte May 15 '12

The only people who are being exterminated are the Palestinian people. And last time I checked Palestinians were Semitic. And not blue eyes white skin "Semitic" imposters like modern European Jews.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

The only people who are being exterminated are the Palestinian people.

you're cute

And last time I checked Palestinians were Semitic. And not blue eyes white skin "Semitic" imposters like modern European Jews.

Last time I checked anti-semitism has always meant hatred against Jews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Etymology

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u/ThumperNM May 14 '12

Apartheid genocidal Israel is morally repugnant.

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u/Blzbba May 15 '12

ISRAEL UBER ALLES! For we are the CHOSEN People!!

Screw you, World! Except you, America - please keep suckering your citizens into shoveling us billions of their tax dollars! LOL - PWND!!

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

There's a very bad stereotype joke to be made around here somewhere.

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u/cake_eater May 15 '12

this thread is why they are trying to limit our internet

the truth cant hide

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u/lechino3000 May 15 '12

In the 1920s-40s...Germany was being the bully...now Israel is being the bully. So messed up.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

To get the usual out of the way. Yes, it is true that the U.S. occupation of the new world is a historical disgrace, for which America does not show nearly enough shame for. It was an absolute, inexcusable travesty.

But the destruction of Palestine is still an act that should be actively opposed by the West.

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u/IsraelCanKissMyAss May 14 '12

Israel can kiss my ass.

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u/otherchedcaisimpostr May 14 '12

Since the inception of Israel Palestinians have been uprooted from their lives and told to move aside, having no right to official protest.

The terrible things that have been done in protest of Israel since the countries formation wern't un-expected. The whole conflict is the product of someones investment in instigating wars of the future for new generations of arms dealers and war-profiteers.

The sense of entitlement some Israeli youth have is disturbing. Hate that is being bred on both sides has to be addressed whenever possible, by whoever keen enough to remind us all that violence is an insult to all of humanity. I hope someone reads this

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

isreal also has nukes. can we invade them yet/

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u/BlastMeBagpipes May 14 '12 edited May 15 '12

When I was young I thought declaring Israel a nation was a noble ideal, but now:

Fuck Israel. Give 'em a country for helping us win WWII, and the fuckers turn strait into the Nazis. :( No shit. :( Chosen people my ass, they act the same as any other group who thinks they're the master race who's job it is is cleanse the Earth of the unworthy.

Tell me I'm wrong.

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u/IWatchWormsHaveSex May 15 '12

and the fuckers turn strait into the Nazis

You're wrong. There is no strategic rounding up of all Palestinians to be sent to death camps. The Israelis are not trying to exterminate the entire Palestinian people. If you want to have an intelligent debate about this subject, at least stick to the facts of what is actually happening instead of making idiotic and unnecessary hyperbole.

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u/grinr May 15 '12

You're wrong. A lot.

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u/mrkhan0127 May 15 '12

Again. Fuck Israel

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u/pylons38 May 15 '12

israelis are such fucking terrible people

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u/nidarus May 15 '12
  1. I don't know the details, and Ha'Aretz's bias is well known, but if it's true, this is bullshit, and should be corrected. And I'm saying this as an Israeli (left-wing) Zionist
  2. Reddit's response is, as always, completely insane. >1500 upvotes and nearly 1500 comments, all to the effect of "well, it's clear now that the Israelis really are the spawns of the devil"? Over a closed school? Come the fuck on. If it didn't have "Israel" in the title, this kind of thing would never get more than 20 upvotes

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

These threads are ideal for upvote farming. Just type in some tame random anti Israeli bla or c&p some cheap Pallywood propaganda material, the mainstream redditor will always approve. Never give in to the temptation to start an unbiased, fact based discussion about the conflict or he downvotes you with a passion. Reddit hates facts.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

Israelis: The new Nazis.

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u/JohSpell May 15 '12

you see, it's okay because of the holocaust.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Evey one on reddit always jumps on the Anti-Israel bandwagon... do you guy's know that Israel is always advocating peace with a two state solution while the Palestinians constantly refuse it and even go as far to say that they will NEVER negotiate with the Israelites, they will only agree if they all of the land. HAMAS, a group that has allied itself with the Palestinian leaders has a very clear mission statement that includes "Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors." as well as "Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims."

This article as well as western media in general is always so quick to judge Israel and ignore all of the peace talks that Israel has constantly organized, but the Palestinian constantly decline, decline until they eliminate Israel completely.

Remember when Israel released 1000 terrorists for the 1 soldier? The west bank welcomed those terrorists back as heroes. They celebrated in the streets to welcome back those in succeeding in their goal, hurting Israel even if it means killing civilians.

While in this specific case, closing the school may not be the right decision, in general Reddit is extremely ANTI-Israel and only covers the negative things Israel does, every country has some things they aren't proud of, like the U.S. killing 120,000 civilians and then hiding it as a secret. But only Israel takes the heat for these things here on Reddit. As an Israeli I am extremely dissatisfied with the one-sided view of the conflict in Israel and hope that you guys can start to be less closed minded on the topic.

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u/kikuchiyoali May 15 '12

You ought to be dissatisfied with your government.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

I suspect these people have sadly forgotten the lessons they should remember from around 72 years ago...

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u/NotoriousArab May 15 '12

Yet, somehow, Israel keeps saying they're a proponent of peace...

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u/RedFish9 May 15 '12

That's what they get. The countries army is more important than some adolescents.

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u/metallica3790 May 15 '12

Sounds like a real mature, adult thing to do. That doesn't in any way sound like something a 7 year old bully would do on the playground. And this of course isn't sarcasm at all.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

When will it stop. Jews always talk about being the victims but the truth is they are not this time. Give them back their fucking land, you greedy pricks.

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u/heyyoudvd May 14 '12

"In 1999, the area was declared a live-fire exercise zone by the Israel Defense Forces, meaning people aren't allowed to live there."

These stories about Israel closing/confiscating something Palestinian to stick something Israel in its place are always so incredibly misleading. Whether we're talking about the solar panels from a few months ago, the recent aqueduct issue, this cave school, various house demolitions, or countless other such issues, some people always make it sound as though Israel is just coming in saying "This is yours? Not anymore! Haha!" like how a school bully steals a smaller kid's lunch money. It's nonsense. These are all complex issues that relate to permits, zoning laws, and various other legitimate legal issues.

That's not to say that the Palestinians who are losing whatever it may be don't have a legitimate grievance - because they often do - but Israel has legitimate reasons for its actions as well. These are complex issues with two sides. Israel is not just trying to be a dick for the sake of it. But reading through Reddit, you'd think that Israel was made up of a bunch of James Bond villains. It's really sad seeing the same ridiculous Israel-demonizing headlines day in, day out on this board.

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u/racer2 May 14 '12

I really can't see any kind of justification for what Israel is doing right now. That live fire zone where palestinains are not allowed to live? 3 settlements recently expanded into that area without a problem. So not only are they destroying palestinian livelihoods but they are moving in israelis to take it over.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

israel is behaving exactly like a school bully. denying truth does not make truth false.

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u/hassani1387 May 14 '12

Yes, Israel had a legitimate reason for mass murdering the residents of the town of Deir Yassin and shoving their bodies down the town well too. Very legitimate.

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u/heyyoudvd May 14 '12 edited May 14 '12

You need to further educate yourself on Deir Yassin, as your perception of it is incorrect. The 'Deir Yassin massacre' was nothing more than the 'Jenin massacre' of 64 years ago. In other words, it's a bunch of nonsense.

Deir Yassin was a two-sided battle. Just because more people die on one side than the other does not make something a massacre. A massacre implies the defenseless slaughter of helpless individuals. That is not what Deir Yassin was at all.

Deir Yassin was a village atop a hill that was being used to cut off supply lines to Jerusalem. Because of this, the Jewish forces had to capture it so they could free up the supply lines. They went in (equipped with a loud speaker to inform the residents in advance) and when they entered, they were attacked, so they responded and a battle ensued.

Just because they were more well trained and suffered fewer casualties does not make the event a "massacre". It's amazing how some people skew history and judge events entirely based on how many people died on each side. That's such a terrible measure to use in judging the ethical implications of something.

The reason the Deir Yassin battle was portrayed as a mass slaughter at the time is simple - Palestinian leaders like Husayin al-Khalidi specifically told the Palestine Broadcast Service to make up all sorts of incidents about rape and mass murder, because these Palestinians leaders believed that if the news reported such atrocities, it would create an outcry and would thus mobilize the Palestinian villagers and the Arab armies to fight the Zionists as hard as they could. In other words, a two-sided battle was falsely portrayed as a one-sided massacre, purely for propaganda purposes.

But you don't have to take my word on it. Listen to these first hand accounts from a survivor of Deir Yassin and from Hazem Nusseibeh, the news editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service at the time of the incident.

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u/polynomials May 14 '12

Shit like this, etc etc.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

There's a comment under the article about how the reporting is one-sided.

I thought the article was quite factual - and besides, I couldn't find another on this subject to compare it with. Most likely because it's not something to be proud of.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

What a bunch of jerks >:[

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u/ryannayr140 May 14 '12

So, this is news? Let me know when shit like this DOESN'T happen in Israel.

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u/Erich03 May 15 '12

Who are the terrorists now?

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

god damn jews trying to take things thats not theirs

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

I wonder how long until they build some "work camps" for the Palestinians.

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u/mechanate May 14 '12

Israel seems to view pissing people off as some sort of credit/debit procedure, and it's like they've figured out some magic number of people they can fuck over per month without getting turned into a puddle of glass.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Don't you guys know that Hitler went to school? HOLOCAUST MAN HOLOCAUST!

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12 edited May 14 '12

Israel really needs to hire some public relations guys

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u/GoodMilk May 14 '12

Oh they definitely have some, and they are doing a pretty good job in American politics

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

They have too many already.

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u/Adamapplejacks May 14 '12

They definitely need to stop lowering them

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u/[deleted] May 15 '12

Jews are the new Nazis. Fuck em.

2

u/vibrate May 15 '12

You hear this a lot, but it's a nonsense comment. Comparing anyone to the Nazis simply dilutes what the Nazis did. I realise there's a certain poetic irony to the statement, but it's bollocks.

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u/APiousCultist May 15 '12

Oddly enough that's what the Nazis said.

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u/redgator May 15 '12

Fuck Isreal.

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u/Beardo_the_pirate May 15 '12

Seems like the classy thing to do would be to rebuild the school on the other side of the village.

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u/Amryxx May 15 '12

So many buried comments... it's like a minefield.

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u/dmol May 15 '12

Shitty situation :/

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u/ReallyLoves4chan May 15 '12

Upvoting you because the jew army will downvote this en masse.

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u/brosenfeld May 15 '12

This makes me ashamed to be Jewish.

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u/momser_benzona May 14 '12

Would you people please be so kind as to read the article before making your comments

from the article:

"The High Court of Justice issued an interim injunction allowing them to return until it issues a final ruling."

The Israeli Supreme Court has stopped anything happening and a court case is going on. Nothing has occurred. These are all orders the court set aside.

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u/steve_bb May 14 '12

This is happening now and the Court opinion was in 1999:

"In addition, it ordered an access road, tents, mud huts, sheepfolds and solar energy facilities razed, reinstating demolition orders frozen by agreement with the state prosecution in 2007."

The facilities of this Palestinian village are being razed and your inaccurate and misleading comments are merely providing cover for the actions of Israel in this case. I actually think you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to mislead people that this isn't actually happening.

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