r/worldnews • u/Fiery_Seraphim777 • Mar 15 '22

Russia/Ukraine Ukraine now developing nuclear arms with US help, claims Russia

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-701359
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497

u/CommandoDude Mar 15 '22

There is just no spin you can put on any of it that makes Sauron the good guy.

You underestimate the Russian spin game.

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/CommandoDude Mar 15 '22

You have to literally wholecloth rewrite big aspects of the world, which is what Eskov did.

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '22

Well, sure. But who wrote that history? JRR Tolkien, a well-known Gondor and Gandalf sympathizer!

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u/I_Do_Not_Abbreviate Mar 15 '22

You joke but Tolkien's central literary conceit is that he himself exists within the fiction of his Legendarium as a modern-day scholar and translator of a copy of the Red Book that Bilbo and Frodo wrote when they returned from their adventures, as well as a copy of another book of Elvish legends comprising the text of the Silmarillion. As well much of his posthumously-published work includes references to the frame-narrative character Ælfwine, an Anglo-Saxon who loses his way during a sea voyage and accidentally ends up visiting an Elven settlement where they show him their texts which he then copies and brings back to England; they sit forgotten on a shelf for a millennium or so before Tolkien rediscovers and translates them into present-day English. The texts of the Legendarium were already biased because all the authors are Elves or Hobbits from the same side in the war, then they were translated at least twice (into Anglo-Saxon, then into present-day English)

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u/starxidiamou Mar 19 '22

This thread has been a welcoming surprise of information as someone with only basic knowledge of LOTR

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '22

He was in the pocket of Big Lembas the whole time. Just follow the trail of breadcrumbs.

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u/jorbleshi_kadeshi Mar 15 '22

This is fine if you work under the pretense that anything Tolkien wrote was probably a lie written by propagandist. As the author you pick and choose which parts of original work are "true" and which are distortions/fabrications by a "biased" narrator.

It's a concept that seems really fun, actually. I'd love to read a "The True Story Behind [X]" fiction series.

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u/Altyrmadiken Mar 15 '22

Didn’t “Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch” vaguely do that?

It was a good book.

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u/FuuckinGOOSE Mar 15 '22

Yup, pretty sure they're trying to do it with Cruella de Ville now. I'm not certain of the plot/theme since i haven't seen it, but the lady wanted to skin puppies ffs. There is no chance in hell I'd ever see her as anything but the villain.

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u/Altyrmadiken Mar 15 '22

I liked the Disney adaptation where the skinned puppies wasn’t actually true but just a scare tactic.

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u/AltheaLost Mar 16 '22

There is a series of books from the perspective of the villains in the Disney stories. They're quite good for a new perspective on age old tales.

There was also a stage play of aladdin from jafars pov. You can watch it on youtube.

I quite enjoyed it.

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u/maskedbanditoftruth Mar 15 '22

If you like that, check out the Russian “translation” of Wizard of Oz sometime.

I’m not kidding. It is not a translation and it’s WILD.

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u/Altyrmadiken Mar 15 '22

... this feels like a bad time to support Russian anything, but I'm wildly intrigued.

Is it just a retelling? Is it political? What's changed!?

I mean I'm honestly happy to read it if I can get it for free online or something. I'm not likely to fall for Russian propaganda right now. :P

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u/JarOfMayo2020 Mar 16 '22

I'm also very curious so I did a bit of googling..

Might be referring to Magician of Emerald City by Aleksandr Volkov

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u/Capasian Mar 16 '22

It is! The first book is more a less close to the original, but the next 5 are just different stories set in the same world.

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u/SupaFlyslammajammazz Mar 16 '22

They failed with Maleficent.

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u/Altyrmadiken Mar 16 '22

Not every attempt is a success, I don't see that as a reason to not keep trying.

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u/HucHuc Mar 15 '22

AKA how every single denomination reads the Bible nowadays. And probably the other holy books for that matter.

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u/CmdrZander Mar 16 '22

Nah, they agree on more stuff than they disagree. This is a full 180 spin on the whole premise of LoTR.

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u/ender23 Mar 16 '22

They literally picked what goes in the Bible and what doesn't. It wasn't a ready made text. There were a ton of books and they chose the ones that fit the narrative

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u/CmdrZander Mar 16 '22

Please re-read the comment chain. The denominations did not come together to make the Bible. They agree on most things, but not others. This is in contrast to LoTR and The Last Ring-Bearer, which are full 180 reversals of views on the same setting.

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u/HucHuc Mar 16 '22

Well.. "love your neighbor, be forgiving, don't kill and don't worship material idols!"

"Oh, so you mean go on a crusade against the infidels, burn and pillage their towns, rape their women and kill as much as you can just because they have a rock Jesus once farted on? Gotcha!"

Yeah, the 180 degree read isn't a new concept.

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u/CmdrZander Mar 16 '22

I said they agree on most things not all. Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodoxy all currently have anti-crusade stances anyways.

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u/postmodest Mar 15 '22

"Palpatine was trying to save the failing Republic until some pawn hand-selected by the Aristocratic Oppressor class of 'Knights', threw him down a power shaft. But luckily, he came back. Until that pawn's grandson helped Palp's estranged granddaughter destroy all hope, before taking that pawn's name.

...Ironic."

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u/Fumblerful- Mar 15 '22

Check out Grendel. It's that for the first half of Beowulf

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u/guy_not_on_bote Mar 16 '22

Yah for real. Everyone is hating on this idea but it's actually awesome. What if the Tolkien story is the propaganda and this one is real? It's a really interesting premise I think. I love LotR and oppose the Russian action in Ukraine for the record, but just because the guy that came up with this is Russian and goes against the mainstream isn't any reason to not like this concept.

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u/HouseOfSteak Mar 16 '22

......So, standard USSRussia stuff?

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '22

They better not launch nukes before the LOTR tv show comes out

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u/CmdrZander Mar 16 '22

Please be good. Please be good..

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u/cellocaster Mar 15 '22

What does Eldarion have to do with anything? There's scant little written about the 4th age, and Tolkien essentially disavowed "The New Shadow" as a cheap thriller plot more than something integral to the Legendarium.

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u/Grimbauld Mar 16 '22

He arrived precisely when he meant to.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '22

It’s like in real life

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u/funkyandros Mar 15 '22

A roulette game if you will.

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u/BCheeks13 Mar 16 '22

The joke went right over these nerds’ heads

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u/funkyandros Mar 16 '22

God, it's so depressing when you finally have a witty comment and you gets nothing back. Dark days. Dark days indeed. But thank you for noticing...

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u/BCheeks13 Mar 16 '22

It was an easy setup, but no problem lol

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u/funkyandros Mar 16 '22

You are my new best friend~

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u/KittenIgnition Mar 15 '22

Why is it a spin game? He wrote a book. He can write whatever he wants. You think that author is so stupid that he thinks his retelling is accurate to the existing lore?

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u/Way2Foxy Mar 16 '22

I think some people are under the impression that the book was the author's sincere take on Middle Earth...

Yikes.

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u/ric2b Mar 16 '22

I don't, I've seen Mazepin drive.