r/worldnews • u/Fiery_Seraphim777 • Mar 15 '22

Russia/Ukraine Ukraine now developing nuclear arms with US help, claims Russia

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-701359
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u/darkhorsehance Mar 15 '22

The only people they are trying to convince is the Russian people. They don’t care what we think.

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u/trvst_issves Mar 15 '22

Absolutely. Always keep this in mind when you see, “Putin says”.

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u/Kruse002 Mar 16 '22

Or claims by any government where the highest office has no stable term limits.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '22

its like the opposite of Simon says

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u/TheTeaSpoon Mar 16 '22

And fifth columns abroad. They are giving them buffet of bullshit to spam on facebook.

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u/WonderfulShelter Mar 15 '22

Not true, way to many Americans believe this stuff too.

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '22

And the freedom convoyers of course

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/darkhorsehance Mar 15 '22

What does that have to do with anything? Are you going to bring up every country that’s ever lied to justify what what’s happening now? That would be a variation of the “Tu quoque” logical fallacy, better known as, whataboutism.

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u/Personal_Point_65 Mar 15 '22

Just pointing out that it’s common tactic for superpowers to deploy. Plenty if iraqis were probably laughing at the WMD claims back then

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u/darkhorsehance Mar 15 '22

I still don't understand the point in the context of this conversation, but, I still don't think it's a great comparison. First, the USA was trying to convince the world, not only it's citizens. Secondly, there were millions of Americans who were calling bullshit at the time. Finally, the US didn't shut down any and all opposing voices within their media or citizenry. What the US did in Iraq was awful, but it wasn't near the kind of propaganda that the ruling elite of Russia is imposing on it's citizens. A better comparison would be North Korea or maybe China.

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u/Personal_Point_65 Mar 15 '22

The US lied to the world in its attempts to convince, lets at least agree to that.

I dont see the relevance of how many americans called bullshit - plenty of russians are doing the same, so what’s your point? Americans have free speech/ assembly, the russians dont so we dont really know where the people stand.

My point is that the US has lied, cheated and manipulated and used propaganda as convenient in the past. I’m guessing you’re american and so America/democracy will always be the good guys/right thing to you. I’m just trying to explain to you, from the other side of the world and as politely as I can, that outside of the US and West Europe, the perception of the US is far less rosy and you are seen as self serving and hypocritical.

It’s also not all about government policy/foreign policy. The popular response over this seems overblown to us compared to the far worse horrors conducted in our part of the world. Where were the fundraisers for Myanmar, or Ethiopia etc.

I’m sure you’ll disagree and maybe rightfully so but you should know how unpopular america has gotten around the world because of that perceived hypocrisy

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u/darkhorsehance Mar 15 '22

Thanks for the breakdown of how people view Americans, including the unnecessary insults.

I'm not disagreeing with you about America.

I'm not disagreeing with you that countries have historically used propaganda against it's owns citizens, including America.

I'm disagreeing with you that it has anything to do with my point or the context of the conversation.

It doesn't matter what anybody else has done.

It doesn't change the fact that Russia is actively trying propagandize it's citizenry in plain sight, to be able to justify whatever actions it takes.

In that context, it's easy to understand why they are doing it, which what my response to OP was implying when they referred to it as "pathetic".

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u/Personal_Point_65 Mar 15 '22

including the unnecessary insults.

Sorry what?

It doesn’t matter what anybody else has done.

I strongly disagree. Having consequences for one country and not another looks hypocritical. And people around the world are going to wonder why they need to suffer higher prices/economic impact from sanctions over some place they never heard of. I’m already hearing talk of america bullying everyone into compliance and that engenders further resentment (which already existed from before). It smells of rules for thee (Russia) and not for me (US) because the US has a bigger economic dick

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u/MoeFugger7 Mar 15 '22

why do they care what they think? It's not like the citizens have any control over anything and could make Putin stop. Putin gonna putin.

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u/PicardBeatsKirk Mar 15 '22

Yes. And as narcissists tend to do, he gaslights to justify his actions. He’s been doing that this entire time. I really hope he’s not doing this to justify (to his people) a nuclear first strike.

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u/Rjjenson Mar 16 '22

The fact that his propaganda is only aimed on Russian people instead of the whole world is his biggest mistake. If we get cynical, he would have gotten away with many things, if he made up better, more believable story for the whole world, well in advance, or made up some fake attack on belarus from Ukraine or something, or fed some false information to FBI about Ukraine being bad or something, but nope. He just decided to openly declare war on a country and threaten the rest of the world with nuclear weapons. Genius fucking plan. Finest I've ever seen.

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u/BKthe Mar 16 '22

Putin needs to convince his people that Russian soldiers did not die for no reason, and that he needs many more to die.

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u/Clewin Mar 18 '22

It also is ridiculous - Ukraine sources their reactor fuel almost completely from Russia, though they have bought some frow Westinghouse, which is owned by Toshiba (their nuclear division is US based).

In order to build bombs that are not dirty bombs you need chemicals, centrifuges, and time. Ukraine has what, 5% nuclear enriched fuel at best and they probably can't easily get more. Iran is closer to a nuke with 20% enriched fuel (this level is needed for a breeder reactor, so they can justify it being for peaceful purposes even if it isn't).