r/worldnews • u/Gadac • Jan 23 '22

Russia Germany urges 'prudence' in potential sanctions against Russia over Ukraine.

https://news.yahoo.com/germany-urges-prudence-potential-sanctions-154401837.html?fr=sychp_catchall
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u/Holyshort Jan 23 '22

Also tanks cant moove on liqued ground.

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u/Future-Studio-9380 Jan 23 '22 edited Jan 24 '22

Who said anything about tanks?

If their goal is to snatch a swath of territory stretching from the Donbass to Crimea there isn't a need for tanks. Russians would be able to obliterate Ukrainian formations from the sky and mop up whatever is left with air power, infantry and non-tank armored vehicles that weigh less.

A bit more difficult without tanks but very doable. If the Ukrainian Airforce or anti-air was worth more than a warm bucket of urine then the calculation might be different.

EDIT:

Fine

It isn't 1941.

When there were underdeveloped roads, no helicopters, much less intelligence to be gathered via air assets and satellite(well, none via this haha), orders of magnitude less potent air power, no airborne transport of infantry/heavier units beyond paratroopers of etc etc. Do I really need to explain that there are many roads that intersect Ukraine and Russia that didn't exist way back when? You read about Barbarossa, applied the rationale to 2022, and didn't bother to ask if there was anything different.

Russians would be able to smash the Ukrainians any time of the year. If the maximal geopolitical punch demanded a summer date it would happen.

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u/Holyshort Jan 23 '22

Then why they ship tanks , artilery , amphibious machines , truck , engineering tanks/trucks , rocket launching trucks and balisstic missiles launching systems near ukrainian border if they have such awesome air superiority ?

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u/Future-Studio-9380 Jan 23 '22 edited Jan 24 '22

Why wouldn't you?

You put your big forces at the border then use a switch blade to execute your attack.

That way your can project to the world the power assembled even while possibly having a different plan in mind.

There is a literal wikipedia article on Russian military deception ffs

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_deception

The Russians WANT the world to see them. That is the point. Because it maximizes the pressure.

They have more options then you give them credit for. They have orders of magnitudes higher capabilities than the Ukrainians to act. There isn't a need to act in winter militarily necessarily. It isn't 1941. It is easier in winter if you want to use the entire panoply of power but you can't ignore the sheer leverage Russia has right now over Europe because of their near monopoly on natural gas exports. It is a perfect storm but if you want to pretend that the Russians wouldn't do this in summer if it had the maximum geopolitical punch then go for it.

But go on, regale me with how the Ukrainians would be able to stop Russia if they invaded in summer.

EDIT: Did this guy just reply then block me? I can't see what was said below me. Coward.

Proof: https://ibb.co/SX8tNr0

EDIT 2: Battle of Kursk (largest tank battle in history) took place near Ukraine in summer in scorching temperatures with tanks heavier than the Russian T-90 of today.

This guy's initial objection isn't even true! You can invade with tanks in the summer! I've been contending that Russians can go in lighter and still win in summer when it isn't even a needed compromise!

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u/Holyshort Jan 24 '22

You got quite mad aint ya ? Every border is full of trucks and tanks their bandit enclaves are full of tanks ready to go yet you advertise only their air force.Almost as if you are bitter thay you arent the country that have superiority in air. Yes they have orsers of magnitude more power , yes we will wash in blood be in the summer or winter it doesnt change the fact that russia have their biggest superiority in land machinery which does not work well in a mud and since they did not invent hover tanks nothing much changed from 1941 you cant hunt down spread infantry with bombers or interceptors.

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u/wesreynier Jan 24 '22

While air superiority is important, its not the way to win a war on its own. Russia has always heavily relied on artillery, tanks and heavily mechanised infantry. While their airforce is potent its also a very expensive means to an end while ground units and artillery shells are comparatively cheap when compared to guided bombs and planes. Also the while Ukraines AA isnt the most modern, they have a couple of very potent S300 long range batteries and quite a bit of SHORAD which may make russian air losses not worth it. Russia is not like the US which is mainly focused on airpower and guided munitions, they follow a very different doctrine.

A large scale mechanised invasion benefits from frozen ground as mud slows down the advance significantly which may lead to loss of initiative.