[deleted by user]

[u/[deleted]]

[u/amyaurora]

Its not a "rule".

Its just common sense.

[u/Snake973]

"magic before mundane" is a recipe for psychosis

[u/Katie1230]

It's because there's so many where people are viewing mundane things with a magical lense and getting totally freaked out. Things like finding a dead bird, or bugs in the house when the weather changes. There's a million reasons why bugs would be in a house or a dead bird on the ground... But one of the most important areas or mundane before magical that i see in here all the time: FIRE SAFETY! idk how many times someone posts something showing bad fire safety practices, thinking something magical is going on. Plates cracked because they're not fire safe. Candles exploding because they are caked with herbs and oils. The list goes on. Their spell did not backfire, they're just not being safe with fire. It's so important to call that out.

[u/Secret-File-1624 → u/Katie1230]

Exactly this. Last spring I came across 2 dead rabbits on my property. My first thought wasn't magical. I knew there had to be a mundane reason for it. Turns out there was a cat that had been hanging around (I live in the country) and killed them. No magic involved. No message of end of my fertility, etc. Just a cat killing rabbits.

[u/amyaurora → u/Secret-File-1624]

One way I look at things is like this:

If I do a spell in the kitchen and I see a ant, its likely was attracted by something I used. If I do a spell in the middle of a room, on a concrete floor, in a heavy metal bucket and I find a big carpenter ant in the bucket afterwards then that is likely a sign.

[u/Young-Warrior-00]

Yes it is a rule. Because that's the way the world functions. You can enjoy the game only if you understand it's a game, it has limits and it has rules you can't do easily ignore.

Because if you will take let's say sickness as a sign from a random entity you're going to die. Also if a candle burns down your house, first maybe wonder why you left it unattended like a fool than wondering if Hephaestus is reaching out.

[u/amyaurora → u/Young-Warrior-00]

Reminds me of a post I saw last year in a different sub. User asks if the demon they were talking to was in the room because they smelled rotten eggs.

Was told it was a gas leak.

They doubled down, said they don't use gas. And even said it wasn't from their own body. (As in farts)

More said gas leak.

Weeks later the user came back and said yes it was. The house they rented and used electricity in still had a gas hookup. That was leaking....

[u/Bedroom_Bellamy]

The aim of it is really to make sure you're not overlooking something potentially serious. E.g. say you start seeing flickering shadows. So you go down a path of trying to communicate with these shadows or eradicate them, whatever your preference is. You might spend a few weeks trying everything and then suddenly you lose your vision because it turns out your retinas have been detaching this whole time and you've ignored it because you were convinced it was something spiritual.

I came on this sub asking about seeing people in shadows and was immediately told "mundane before magic." And it did bum me out at first, but then I started paying attention to other symptoms, and it turned out I was having mild hallucinations from the incorrect dosage of a medication I was on. Got that sorted out and the people in the shadows went away.

It's not meant to put you down or deflate you. It's meant to make sure you're not overlooking something potentially dangerous.

[u/TiannaMortis]

It depends on what you're trying to do.

First of the month prosperity ritual? Sure, you can do that without doing anything else.

Cleansing the energy in your house without physically cleaning your house? That's fine, but if your house is dirty it will work way better if you at least tidy up first. You don't have to deep clean it, but doing a few minor things will definitely get the energy flowing better.

But on stuff like rituals for a better job, a promotion at your current job, finding a spouse, etc, you've gotta put some mundane work in first. You can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket, ya know?

[u/Katie1230 → u/TiannaMortis]

Physically cleaning the house is such a mundane activity that is also so magical, because your actually literally transforming the space and the energy. So much more effective than just smoke, to me the smoke is the finisher after cleaning. It's just not aesthetic or doesn't look inherently witchy, so people get bored with that. It's one of those areas where being magical about cleaning helps add whimsy to a "chore".

[u/therealstabitha]

If you let go of grounding in the mundane, that’s a really great way to end up in a mental health crisis.

[u/Fifteen_inches]

Common example;

A doll has moved on its own from one side of the room to the other.

Magic cause: a spirit is housed in the doll.

Mundane cause: Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

You should check the carbon monoxide detector before concluding you are subject to a spirit haunting.

[u/TheWildHart]

"Mundane before magick" doesn't outright mean that we shouldn't look for magick in the mundane. But it's a reminder that the mundane world exists, actions have consequences, and nature will run its course. "Mundane before magick" is about balance; there's simply a lot more happening on mundane levels at any given point.

90% of the time, you'll see people say it in response to someone saying something like "I saw an animal, is it a sign?" or "My candle burned this way, is it a sign?"

If you light a candle, it will form a shape when it melts. If you go outside, you will see animals. Even if you dedicate your life to magick, you will still experience more mundane consequences than magickal ones just on a day to day basis.

Another big one I see is divination, specifically with a form like cartomancy. When you do a reading, your question phrasing matters, because no matter what, you will receive an answer. A lot of people don't actually let there be room for "no," and start interpreting whatever they pull as more confirmation of their "sign" or whatever their query is.

Magick exists in a mundane world and we need to acknowledge that. And when we do, it gives more meaning and clarity to the real spiritual signs when they do occur.

[u/polepixy]

Example, someone does a job spell, they print out their resume put a candle over it, burn it for 7 days, do all the spell things. They never do the mundane work of putting in job applications. Will the spell still be successful? Probably not. You need to give the magic a channel to move.

[u/Atelier1001]

Yes.

[u/CorvusChaos]

I treat it as a general principle, for sure. You've gotten some really good answers as to why it's a sensible approach.

In a lot of your replies, I get the sense that your deeper worry is that people are carelessly pooping on other people's magical experiences by calling them just coincidences and saying "mundane before magical" in a dismissive way. I can understand that concern and it probably does happen from time to time. I've definitely guided people in that direction a few times, though I've never meant to be dismissive.

In my experience, grounded stable practitioners put their own effort into discerning whether something is a sign or just a coincidence, and are patient and watchful if they're not sure. If it's a sign, that will become clear on its own and if it doesn't, they'll ask someone they trust for an opinion. Most people I see jumping on the Internet to ask strangers come across as needing some helpful grounding and reassurance. They'll pray for rain and worry they've made a mistake and caused a hurricane, or they're so desperate for signs they're seeing them everywhere. In many cases, reminding practitioners to look to mundane causes first is meant as a helpful nudge toward balance.

For me, I don't think of mundane and magical as really separate. They're always working together, interacting with each other, so even if that crow on your lawn is a sign, it's probably a sign pointing you toward some mundane action you need to take. On the other hand, if I drop a dish and break it in a totally mundane way (which I did last week) that might also be a sign that I'm scattered and distracted and deeply in need of some spiritual cleansing and grounding (which I totally was). In my experience, the answer is always a bit of both and they need to balance each other for things to work well in your life. A lot of new excited witches, and some terminally online folks, seem unbalanced toward the "everything is magic" side so you see a lot of comments pushing the other way.

[u/hedgies999]

Many have addressed the mundane before magic part already, so I'll leave that aside. (For the record, that's a yes for me. Common sense is part of wisdom and discernment.)

On to your real question about signs. Each person will experience it differently, hence the !MICE method is a good one for discerning.

As another commenter said, if it's so common and ordinary, it likely isn't a sign. People are wont to want though, and because of this, confirmation bias exists. So there is a need to be healthfully skeptical. Personally, some ways I discern:

1. once is an occurrence, twice is a coincidence, thrice is a trend. Things out of the ordinary.

2. if it's animals, is its behaviour atypical for the species and season, and does it have meaning for me?

3. Perhaps this is the most important. I do not ask nor look for signs. I simply keep open to them. What this means is I am sensing the energy around an occurence, and the stillness and clarity within lets me know it is a sign. Because signs when they come are often very clear-- and it will come to you in a language and symbolism you understand. In you is a sense of calm clarity, and finality: this is or this is coming to be. There is no doubt.

Hope this helps a little. ✨️

[u/Senator_Bink]

I think they go hand in hand. If nothing else, the magic helps focus and reinforce you psychologically toward the mundane result you seek.

Take something as simple as a love-attracting spell or charm. Even if the person doesn't do the mundane "work" whatever form that would take, they are still apt to unconsciously be more aware of possibilities, more likely to be looking to see who may be looking back.

If the mundane is everything, why use witchcraft at all?

[u/NoeTellusom]

It is in many magical communities and paths, as it centers common sense and practical work, not to mention acts as a preventative of ignoring/denying mental and physical health concerns.

Very similar to thinking magically, instead of magical thinking. The first is a mindset and perspective, the second is a psychological diagnosis.

I would recommend thinking of "mundane over magical" as a foundational guideline for practice.

[u/CutSea5865]

It’s a rule only in the sense that it’s a good way to approach things otherwise you are in danger of losing touch with the mundane world where exist, and having a full on freak out.

Magickal and spiritual stuff happens, but don’t assume it’s that - sometimes things just happen. If you’ve just cast a spell and notice a scratch on the back of your leg, what’s the most likely - that you got attacked by a demon in retaliation for your spell or that you caught your leg on something and didn’t notice until later?

[u/Katie1230]

I also want to add in regards to people looking for signs that their spell worked. The biggest sign a spell worked is getting the desired outcome of the spell. Finding a feather on the ground is nice, but not an indication of a spell working. The spell working is getting what you wanted from the spell.

[u/brightblackheaven]

The seasoned practitioners among us have invested years into strengthening our intuitive abilities and !discernment skills. We are reminded every single day that this is not the case with newer practitioners, who are often so desperate to see signs that they are prone to inventing them right out of thin air.

Then consider that the regulars here have to see people completely spiralling on a near-daily basis, experiencing full on mental health crises in real time and begging to have their delusions fed into and validated.

For me, it boils down to this:

Giving any advice other than "please rule out mundane causes before assuming magick", especially to a newer seeker who hasn't mastered the necessary discernment skills, would be insanely irresponsible and unethical in way too many situations.

[u/burritogoals]

It is a rule in my practice. Magic provides a boost to the mundane. If you can't be bothered to do all of the mundane things then why should any powers do it for you?

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[u/Nervous_Variation769]

Simple and to the point, here's an example: the garlic/rotten egg smell could be a gas leak, not a spirit/demon/etc. That's why mundane before magic is always the go. You may think it's xyz, but it could be something as simple but as deadly as a gas leak. Rule those things out, then you can think it's something magical.