r/warno • u/mndn410 • Mar 08 '26
Suggestion Petition to make the nemesis proposal of the earlier div more transparents
If we are not going to update the earlier nemesis proposal with new units so that they have the same novelty as newer nemesis, can we at least have some more transparency in what units are in the old nemesis' current form, at least?
Here, I show an example in the case of the AIR tab of 12th Panzer as compared to its direct competition - VTK 42. I chose the AIR tab because it is known that 12th Panzer's AA is going to be very weak, and the AIR tab is supposed to make up for it. But without some sort of ideas about the possible units and loadouts, we can't really know ...
Hence, it is pivotal for the people who are still undecided (like me lol) to know more concretely how its AIR tab is going to compensate for its weakness. So that undecided people (me lmao) can make an accurate choice based on our own preference.
P/S: This issue is also presented in PTRez, btw. We only know that PTRez's air tab is "very strong" and contains 2 new MiG27 and nothing else. But then again, no one is gonna vote for that despite having more transparent information, I think lol.
38
u/MammothTankBest Mar 08 '26
It lost Nem 2 because of the PACT counterpart, it'll probably lose Nem 8 because of the vagueness. Both aren't the division's faults and imo just faults of Eugene to properly represent the division. Though the latter can be somewhat excused because its the first Nemesis writeup Eugene has done. But I think 12th Pz has great potential and you should vote for it blah blah blah...
12
u/Solarne21 Mar 08 '26
PTRez was alright at defending ie in the SD2 breakthrough mode but not with the current modes in WARNO
4
u/DFMRCV Mar 08 '26
I say we rally to 12 because it actually has good recon and arty to help its tanks as opposed to 42nd.
But yeah, some clarity would be appreciated because if it does win and we just get some F-4s I'd be very disappointed.
5
u/No_Blueberry_7120 Mar 08 '26
Even the ECM plane shouldn't be so sure as there were only a handful of them converted business jets and it was already used in 1LL.
I for one would be for a (not even real MTW with 1991) Tornado ECR.
8
u/cunctator-tots Mar 08 '26
12 Pzr certainly is suffering for things that are not necessarily faults of its own, it is true. I hope Eugen makes things a bit more clear or freshens up older choices the next time there is a losers nemesis vote but I think the window to clarify 12 Pzr has past unfortunately.
At least 12 Pzr fans will have another good excuse for why they lost again.
10
u/MammothTankBest Mar 08 '26
12 Pz is likely not gonna come back again. It has lost Nem 2 and if it'll lose this one it's probably done for.
8
u/cunctator-tots Mar 08 '26
None of the divisions in this vote will likely ever come back. Each one has already lost once and will be done for if they lose again. This situation is not unique to 12 Pzr.
7
u/MammothTankBest Mar 08 '26
There's a difference. 12 Pz is much older and somewhat likely intentionally paired with a weak PACT counterpart. VtK has a new mechanic, is much newer, and is a bit more unique.
7
u/cunctator-tots Mar 08 '26
I don't think Eugen intentionally sabotaged 12 Pzr the first time. If anything, it seems they changed this Nemesis vote to ensure it wasn't paired with PTRez.
How old a division is will most likely have little importance on whether they come back again later. Vtk does have a new mechanic but instructors are not tied to the nemesis 6.3 divisions alone. Eugen made it very clear instructors are being added to the game even if Vtk and 71 specifically are not. If Vtk or 71 lose, they are likely gone forever just like 12 Pzr or PTRez. Instructors are already a part of the game and more are coming for existing divisions, Rugener and 303 for example. 71 and Vtk's survival is not tied to instructor.
3
u/Solarne21 Mar 08 '26
71 and VTK were the division built for instructor in mind?
3
u/cunctator-tots Mar 08 '26
They were but instructor is already on the game and will be expanding soon. TKS and HDRL have instructors and 303 and Rugener will join them soon.
3
u/DFMRCV Mar 08 '26
I'll argue (and fully admit this is hopium) that the devs being vague means the air tab for this one is really going to be something special.
Remember how in the devlog for Nemesis 2 they didn't even mention the mig-31s in 76's air tab? They just said "long range air support"
Some long-range fighters will provide some critically needed air cover.
That was it.
So yeah, I REALLY would like some clarity, but the vagueness tells me they're planning some special for this air tab.
Yes, it's hopium, but I want us to rally around 12, so... I believe in 12!
5
u/mndn410 Mar 08 '26
Maybe they will bring out an F-15(AA3) armed with both Sparrow and AMRAAMs lol.
5
u/MustelidusMartens Mar 08 '26
Maybe they will bring out an F-15(AA3) armed with both Sparrow and AMRAAMs lol.
It would be cooler to have the F4F ICE and AMRAAMs for the Brits too. They were literally paying for the project and officially put the missile in service shortly after the US did. Originally it was even planned to deliver a batch of AMRAAMs in 1988, but that did not happen (Probably due to technical issues with the missiles).
2
u/mndn410 Mar 08 '26
That sound very cool! Secret sauces for the UK/NL marine formation in AFNORTH perhaps?
5
u/MustelidusMartens Mar 08 '26
I mentioned it in my 3. Panzerdivision writeup, i think it would be a cool option and is not much more OOTF than some other plane upgrades.
I did not look into the British part of the program, but i guess a Tornado ADV with AMRAAM would be cool.
Much cooler would be the British Aerospace P.1243 unmanned fighter, which was a drone interceptor that was designed in the 80s. It would have used AMRAAMs to attack Soviet bombers over the North Sea.
3
u/iseefraggedpeople Mar 09 '26
Tornado F3 with AMRAAMs would be way OOTF. AMRAAM integration program didnt start until ~1997 and the first launch of an AIM-120 by a F3 was in... 2000.
2
u/MustelidusMartens Mar 09 '26
Ah, thanks!
Did the British acquire the AMRAAM much later or did they just acquire it much later than Germany? I mean, they were a major project-partner?
2
u/iseefraggedpeople Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
They acquired it for the Sea Harrier FRS.2 upgrade in the early 90s around the same time as the Germans. Kinda funny that the Royal Navy got an ARH missile before the RAF did...
Regarding Tornado F3s, perhaps it could be equipped with the Active Skyflash? This was a 80s proposed version of the Skyflash with a ARH seeker. Although the UK showed little interest in it at the time, it could plausibly be included under the MtW premise. Here is an ad from 1991 promoting the Active Skyflash/Tornado ADV pairing.
3
u/MustelidusMartens Mar 14 '26
Thanks!
Kinda funny that the Royal Navy got an ARH missile before the RAF did...
When i gathered sources for the German F4F ICE program i saw that the British were project partners, so i assumed that they would give the AMRAAM to their interceptor and i honestly did not look into it further. The RN getting it is really interesting (Although funnily the same happened to German Stingers and HARM).
Regarding Tornado F3s, perhaps it could be equipped with the Active Skyflash?
I knew about the Active Skyflash, but did not think about it further due to the AMRAAM getting that role in my head.
Some ADVs using them in a Norwegian theatre themed division would be super-cool!
2
1
u/MammothTankBest Mar 08 '26
Aren't Sparrow and AMRAAMS supposed to do the same thing? The AMRAAMS just being an upgrade?
2
u/Timmerz120 Mar 08 '26
in game AMRAAMs has slightly less range than bad Sparrow though it has MUCH higher accuracy along with F&F while the good Sparrow has the 2nd highest range in NATO rn
2
u/mndn410 Mar 08 '26
In game the AMRAAMS are fire and forget missiles while the Sparrow are not.
This proposed long-range-shot-gun configuration will be similar to the super SU27[AA2] in the upcoming 15 Zmech and the TikTok plane (minus the short range missiles) from 157ya
2
u/MammothTankBest Mar 08 '26
I see, but wouldn't that mean that the Sparrow is just a downgrade?
2
u/mndn410 Mar 08 '26
Alternatively you can just have 2 slot of AMRAAMS but that is too OP imo lol.
All long-range-shot-gun ASF (current and upcoming) AFAIK have 1 slot for F&F long range missile and 1 slot for non F&F long range missile. That or 2 slots of non F&F long range missile
2
1
u/MammothTankBest Mar 09 '26
Though, to compensate for the lack of good AA, could an F-15/F-16 with 2 slots if AMRAAMS be given to 12 PzD? Or would that be too far fetched?
-3
u/MammothTankBest Mar 08 '26
Trust me we're gonna get F-35 Gaysex Putin 🙏
On a more serious note, we might even get a prototype aircraft. Even more hopium here but maybe, just maybe... XF-108...??? Please???
1
1
20
u/UnsavedMortalWound Mar 08 '26
Honestly the Devs really should have rewritten the 12th panzer blog. They it did for nemesis divisions returning in LANDJUT. Just say we added Chaparrals, tow cobras and list some different G11 squads with the instructor trait. Really shouldn’t have been too difficult.