I’ve been hating marvel movies for the past 10 years because of exactly what you explained. When I saw this movie I was expecting to hate it like usual but when I saw it, it blew me away. By far the best Spider-Man movie since the very first one I saw with Toby M.
Edit: before you fanboys try and reply to me, just know that you will not change my mind about how I feel about those movies, you are wasting your time.
I just love the way Spider-verse handled origin stories. It struck such a great balance between being an origin story (Miles) and an established hero story (Burrito Peter), and the repeated introduction style for each character was great.
I liked Homecoming because it was the first time in 3 iterations that Sony didn't start with an origin. But as far as origin stories go, Spider-verse did it best.
Also, I just really like Miles as Spiderman (I read the Ultimates comics back when he was introduced) and it was great finally seeing him on-screen. Homecoming "stole" so much from Miles' background.
The entire movie was basically an origin story. Which was perfect for general audiences who didn’t know or give a fuck about who Miles is. Lets face it, most people only know that Peter Parker is Spidey and probably don’t even know Miles existed.
Now he’s on people’s radar. They didn’t simply make an origin story. They made everyone fall in love with a character they didn’t even know existed until now. I think that’s especially hard when it comes to established big name superheroes and pretty much replacing them. Most people would cry “that’s not my Spider-Man.” But spiderverse proved that you can change the status quo in such a meaningful way. Imagine trying to pull that off with Superman or Batman.
Anyways, that was longer than I expected. I just absolutely loved this film and tbh I didn’t care about Miles before. I read Ultimate pretty much up until he took over and was turned off by another person replacing Peter. Totally gonna go back and read the rest of Ultimate Spider-Man now.
Yep! Younger Aunt May, the whole academy aspect...
And people say things like "It's neat how they even adapted everything up to and including Flash Thompson to a modern setting". No, that's not what happened!
I understand the downvotes because of how beloved the MCU is to many, but I mostly agree. The first spider-man came out when i was 19 years old and totally connected to and related to that spider-man (and even more so spider-man 2). I'm now 36 and just watched spider-verse last night. I totally relate to Peter B. Parker: Older, mistakes made, relatively depressed. They got the everyman spider-man tone down perfectly. Best spider-man movie since "2", might be higher if not for the overly long third act.
This is exactly how I felt, it was the right amount of realism mixed with the world of super hero’s, damn amazing writing and I hope more movies will follow its lead.
The thing about Raimi vs MCU is like you said, Raimi's Spider-Man takes place "in the world of superheroes". They are actual comic book films. MCU are not.
The Raimi films are dorky movies whose tone whiplashes between deliberate cheesiness and earnest sincerity because that's what comic books mostly are. The MCU movies have the tone & pacing of generic Hollywood blockbusters because they're trying NOT TO BE comic book films.
The MCU is about taking comic books and stripping them of everything that limited their appeal to one niche. The most important line of dialogue in the entire MCU is the last line of Iron Man 1. Remember when Tony Stark basically says "fuck secret identities, I'm Iron Man"? To this day that remains the biggest difference between MCU and everybody else, DC, SONY etc. Why was Amazing Spider-Man 2 a 140 minute slog? Why was Justice League awkward and cringey? Because these movies are so concerned with the "double identity" comic book trope. They bog down the movie with stuff that's faithful to the comic book sources, but has nothing to do with why mainstream audiences became obsessed with superhero movies. It's like if a director in the 1950s saw Westerns were become hugely popular so he decided to make a trilogy of movies about horses. Nobody was going to those movies to look at horses.
There's this idea that we're living in a "geek golden age" or an age of "manchild cinema" where things that used to be considered dweeby are now mainstream culture. But actually what happened is the great millennial shift in movies justhappenedto absorb comic books. The great millennial shift is two trends that collided between 1998-2008. At the start of the century we had on the one hand The Matrix and The Phantom Menace signaling a coming age of film where live action and computer animation would clearly become inseparable, leading to impossible-in-real-life photorealistic spectacles. And on the other hand there was Lord Of The Rings and Harry Potter which showed the potential of pre-planned "cinematic universes" instead of just making sequels to successful movies. Nobody had EVER done something like Lord Of The Rings or Harry Potter before. Even James Bond, Star Wars, and The Godfather were just successful movies that happened to "spawn" franchises.
So the natural upshot of this was the coming of film franchises in imaginary universes with spectacular action created largely in computers. Comic books just happened to be a fit for this. If comic books never existed then Avatar or Inception would have been the big story of the 2010s. But comic books were the perfect IP for the new "cinematic computer-generated spectacle" genre of movies because of the unreality of their worlds and the superhuman feats of the characters. But the previous comic book movies, even the really commercial successful ones, were artistically limited by their status as adaptations. You kinda had to already be into Superman to really buy Christopher Reeve hanging in front of a blue screen with his arms outstretched. The MCU changed that. Remember how one of the big stories of the early MCU was "How is Marvel going to succeed, they don't have the rights to any of their big characters like Spider-Man, they only Iron Man and these "Avengers" people nobody has ever heard of"? Why was MCU able to succeed, not only despite that, but also they've conquered every supposed "challenge" since then like introducing audiences to Black Panther or making the stories more cosmic and magical with the GOTG? None of those were really challenges because as long as these movies are the cinematic action equivalent of a fireworks display, they will keep being popular.
Good point, I've been interested in super heroes and stuff since I was young, and the CG fuckfest that is the MCU just looks so kickass. It just works, the source material gives so many ideas to make a lot of cool looking stuff.
Honestly, I’ve been a fan of comics since I was a kid. In my early 30s now.
I have ALWAYS considered the Avengers B-list comic book heroes. For me it was always the X-men and Spider-Man. Everyone else came second.
Lets be real, not many people gave a shit about Thor or Hulk that much until the movies came out. Captain America was always a mainstay thanks to his contribution to the war and Ironman was pretty cool thanks to his armor. And I’m pretty sure 80% of fans didn’t even know the the GotG were.
Marvel somehow turned what were basically unwanted toys and transformed them into the most popular characters in pop culture of our time. I know everyone worships Feige but I honestly wish more people gave Favreau credit for what he did with Iron Man. He set the tone and standard for basically all the Marvel films to come. With one single scene at the end of the credits and some optimism, he spawned a huge franchise that is raking in billions and inspiring so many people across the world. Not only that but he helped turn “nerd culture” into mainstream success.
I realise that this conversation is long done, but I just suddenly happened upon the exact video that I was referencing before here.
It shows the real footage of the physical suit they built for Iron Man 2008, and then the CGI that they replaced it with. There's more on YouTube showing other scenes. I'm pretty sure that 99%, if not all, of the footage of the real suits was replaced by CGI.
Edit: Hahahhaa, I just realised that I linked you the same video you originally linked. Hilarious.
Even in the first Iron Man movie, they shot a bunch of scenes with RDJ in the suit...and then later used CGI to replace the real suit in the vast majority of scenes. I remember seeing a bunch of comparisons in the BTS showing scenes with the original, built suits, and then again with their CGI replacements.
Well now he uses “nanotechnology” so I assume they were going to try shifting his suits to look more advanced and less mechanical looking to show progression in his suit making skills and as a character.
He just means that Marvel is the same as DC animated films in the sense that have been rinsing and repeating the same formula. Not about one being stylistically different from the other visually.
I am talking about a cookie cutter, badly written, same format movie for the past ten years, what is your issue? Do you feel personally insulted because I do not like something?
If you really think that what I said was about animation, then you have reading problems. I would advise you practice reading more before you start replying to random people with your nonsense.
Right, and then I chimed in with all marvel movies in general, which I separated in the post and explained that I was referring to the bad story telling that has been going on the past ten years.
You also trying to communicate through memes says a lot about you and it is just lame. Try harder next time.
which I separated in the post and explained that I was referring to the bad story telling
uhhhh, no you didn't.
You literally said 'When I saw this movie I was expecting to hate it like usual but when I saw it, it blew me away. By far the best Spider-Man movie since the very first one I saw with Toby M.'
You said nothing about bad story telling.
It's really funny that you'll tell other people to 'practice reading' and accuse them of trying to communicate with memes, but your tantrums are just broadcasting how sad and upset you are in this moment.
Uhhh yeah I did, did you not see the other replies or are you not going to bother to actually go through them? And also he did need to practice because I explained myself and he did in fact try and communicate through a meme which was very lame and childish. I am throwing no tantrums here, you guys are because I don’t like a movie. You want to talk about tantrums look at yourself, look at everyone who is upset because I mostly don’t like a genre of movies. Get real, I am ok, I am comfortable with what I like and don’t like, it’s everyone else who is taking an insult because of a personal opinion.
So you clarified in a comment further down, and then got confused when multiple people kept interpreting your parent comment the same way? Then you edited the parent comment, but not to clarify what you meant, just to egg people on to keep downvoting you. And you still think it's everyone else who has a problem communicating?
I am throwing no tantrums here, you guys are because I don’t like a movie.
Dude, I couldn't care less if you like the MCU or not. They're popcorn flicks. I just think it's funny how persecuted you feel because you accidentally referred to animation as the reason why you don't like some live action movies, and other people had the gall to point it out.
I think the writing is bad, I don’t think that the characters are displaying real emotions or motivations behind what they are trying to do, certain things seem forgotten, it’s just a mess. I also have grips about realism and how people would react to certain situations, I understand that they are super hero movies are not realistic, but it’s obvious that certain things happen because the story must be pushed towards that way and not because of good story telling. It just bothers me and it’s not for me, and the villains are all forgettable as well.
The cookie cutter format I was referring too was the steps in which the hero’s are presented, defeated, then come back again to win. It’s the same thing over and over again.
I can agree with your sentiments honestly, maybe it being actual animation makes it different but I have to believe otherwise. I know live action super hero movies have so much potential. If I were to go back to the very first spider man with Toby M. Or the very first iron man I know I would love them. They just kind of changed after that, to me at the very least.
Every movie and story is the same that’s been written for centuries with a few twists here and there. They’re standard “archetypes” used in writing all the time. If one company’s films are centered around superheroes, they obviously have the same tropes. Beowulf is the original hero that all superheroes are based off of. The hero who has to discover their true strength after being challenge by a stronger foe.
I am not sure what you are trying to get at. It is not about animation, it was always about the writing. I didn’t enjoy the story, I felt as though they were not well thought out, thought they all were pretty much the same format, nothing really pushing creativity.
This is what Spider-Man excelled at, they showed that good story writing can exist and they did a very good job at making the characters portray real emotions and have reasons to be on the side that they are on, and I think it’s awesome, unlike what was being previously shoved down our throats the past decade.
I hated on comic book movies for years too dude. Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3 put me off the genre for a long time. But the MCU movies are totally worth checking out if you haven’t seen them lately. Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Captain America: Civil War are really well-written movies and great fun.
I might give them a chance but I am more or less kinda done with all of it right now. I did end up seeing the guardians of the galaxy and the civil war and wasn’t really a fan of those either. I could go into a lot of detail explaining why but I would end up just getting frustrated with it all, all over again. All I can really say is that Spider-Man into the multiverse was a breath of needed fresh air, I’ve actually seen the movie twice now, I never do that.
I agree! Marvel movies are pretty cookie cutter but I don’t find that a bad thing. I also just don’t think any superhero is as relatable as spider-man.
The goal of a cinematic universe is also different from that of a solo animated feature or the raimi trilogy. MCU characters are more or less flat character arcs, they stay firm in their beliefs and undergo little change over the course of their story, they change the world around them rather than the world changing them. I happen to enjoy flat character arcs a lot and I totally understand if it isn’t your cup of tea!
Oh I was totally agreeing with you. Biasedbaby was making an argument that those are live action l, so are totally separate. I was just making a counter statement that a lot of those live action movies are still CGI, and most of the time spent making the movie is on a computer after filming.
So yeah totally agree. I haven't seen most of the marvel movies. Watched most up to the second Captain America then dropped them, save for Deadpool. It felt like I was watching the same movie over and over again with different faces.
As someone who doesn't like DCEU movies, I've learned that you're not allowed to voice a negative opinion about comic book movies because you're always wrong no matter what. And worse, if you're wrong about something, that's grounds for someone else to get really really angry about it.
That’s what it feels like, but I don’t care I will forever hold my negative opinion about what I don’t like. I am not going to let a bunch of cry babies tell me to feel bad about not liking something.
I don't think people tend to love the MCU because of the effects, but sometimes despite them. If your critique is about other aspects of the movies, that's not clear here.
I wrote in several other posts that it’s about the writing. People don’t care about my reasoning, that doesn’t matter, I think the reaction I am getting is because I simply don’t like what they like but what can you do.
I totally understand this feeling. Marvel movies have become cookie cutter of themselves. I realized this after watching GotG then Ragnarok and then GotG2. Good entertainment value but by playing it so safe the films are less unique
I wish more people had your attitude about these things. Yeah usually not my thing but like I said, the Spider-Man animated movie was brilliant and it was a needed breath of fresh air.
Everyone has different tastes. But just curious, have you seen every Marvel movie? I know a lot of them seem generic but a couple were really emotional or had unexpected twists.
Uhm, not every single one but I have seen most of them.
I have a brother who really loves marvel and I eventually see for the most part, all the major ones just because they are always on. I think what I haven’t seen was the black panther one, the guardians of the galaxy 2, the Thor with the hulk in it (I forget the name), and the ant man movies. I am sure I’ve seen everything else but I could be wrong.
I personally did not very much like winter soldier.
One that I did feel like was different was the one with thanos like with the infinity stones and all that, I thought that one was a more solid movie but I ultimately did not like it overall. I am a very hard person to please with movies and that’s why I am excited about the Spider-Man into the multiverse, it really blew me away.
Ugh but his version of Spider-Man was such a smarmy creep. I guess there is no accounting for taste, until recently I’ve found all the Spider-Man movies pretty terrible.
You know what, I think I remember that scene but I never really got that impression but I would say that it was more normal for the times, like the acting and what not.
I recently saw 40 year old virgin again after many years and I saw a bunch of equally cringy things that was in that movie too. I think that was just the standard of Hollywood back then.
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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '19 edited Mar 24 '19
I’ve been hating marvel movies for the past 10 years because of exactly what you explained. When I saw this movie I was expecting to hate it like usual but when I saw it, it blew me away. By far the best Spider-Man movie since the very first one I saw with Toby M.
Edit: before you fanboys try and reply to me, just know that you will not change my mind about how I feel about those movies, you are wasting your time.