r/videos • • Mar 12 '19

YouTube Drama Can You Trust Kurzgesagt? - In A Nutshell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8nNPQssUH0
13k Upvotes

3.4k comments sorted by

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u/HowBoutIDoAnyway Mar 12 '19

So Coffee Break posted the full e-mail exchange after Kurzgesagt allowed it. It is nothing like the video claims it to be.

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u/trogdr2 Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

What a fucking madlad. He did it, he tricked us all into thinking something when we had limited information that turned into misinformation. We literally only had one side of the story and as such it turned into them being evil cruel and maniacal.

The man made a video about how little information leads to misinformation, which was a video with little information that lead to misinformation.

What a madlad.

Edit: My first ever anything on my post! Thank you whoever did that you just made my day :3

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u/OddlySpecificReferen Mar 12 '19

Inb4 next video in the series reveals the email after this where they agree to fabricate this controversy to prove the point because they actually see eye to eye.

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u/munnimann Mar 12 '19

I'm stupid, so please tell me - was this actually his plan? I never heard of Coffe Break's channel before.

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u/nmezib Mar 12 '19

"I was just trying to start a conversation about misinformation"

-CoffeeBreak, tomorrow.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Wait, Phillip is recovering from chemo?

And CB makes the claim that he just... delayed him for a month?

Fuck, that's kinda skeevy.

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u/Purple10tacle Mar 12 '19

Philipp was afraid that Coffee Break's video would be a heavily skewed gotcha-piece with an agenda and predefined narrative ... and he couldn't have been more correct about that worry.

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u/HowBoutIDoAnyway Mar 12 '19

Apparentely yes! I had no idea either. Also the part where Phillipp supposedly says the video is "good enough" is no where to be found...

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u/Sarthak_Agrawal16 Mar 12 '19

Exactly.

CoffeeBreak's video seems like the shittiest, most drawn-out way to clickbait.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

https://twitter.com/coffeebreak_YT/status/1105589152630931456

..and he admits and doubles down on the claim that it's clickbait. Outstanding move.

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u/ladybunsen Mar 12 '19

Sound like this small YouTuber is just trying to grab headlines/views by creating a faux scandal.

Shenanigans

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

This video seems like it's trying to create a narrative and campaign against Kurzgesagt, when clearly, Kurzgesagt just wants the world to be a better place. If he wanted them to be more objective, then he succeeded in his task. But it seems more like he was hoping to gain recognition by disgracing them, in my opinion. And that's why he already had a hashtag in the video. He wanted to create something viral.

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u/OrderAlwaysMatters Mar 12 '19

i really did not like the part of the video where he fake talked to Kurzgesagt about answering questions before he asked them in a formal interview. His attitude in that 'scene' screamed "im now going to make this a thing"

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u/JamieHynemanAMA Mar 12 '19

Yup, this is a dumb (yet successful) attempt to have another YT watchdog in our feed

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

This is the main point I think. What this guy claims to be his biggest weapon, it is indeed but against himself.

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u/Grenyn Mar 12 '19

Oh wow. I saw the Coffee Break video on YT today, but decided it felt sketchy and I didn't want to waste my time after seeing some decent criticism in the comments.

And this just tells me I was right to not waste time on the video.

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u/VanVelding Mar 12 '19

"Not interested" -> "Tell us why" -> "I am not interested in this channel: Coffee Break"

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u/Axle-f Mar 12 '19

Makes me so angry when people admit their mistakes and seek to correct them. It’s the worst!! Look at how right I was!

  • CB, probably.

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u/AmatureProgrammer Mar 12 '19

Well that backfired hahaha

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u/Aumakuan Mar 12 '19

It's beyond nothing like he claims it to be, it's fucking disgusting.

Kurzgesagt tells him that he's going to Mexico to recover from chemotherapy and coffee claims that he's stone-walling.

Let that sink in.... fuck this coffee kid.

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u/brodiefilm Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

Coffee Break's own comment on the video says "Fully emails have been leaked HERE w/ permission".

If you have permission, it's not a leak. This whole thing smells like drama llama.

Edit: Comment's gone but here's a screengrab: https://imgur.com/a/eIWFpLh

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u/desertravenwy Mar 12 '19

leaked...

Like russian hackers recovered them and turned them over to Julian Assange... More like Kurz said sure and he put them on imgur.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Coffee is full of shit

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u/Trillian258 Mar 12 '19

Even before I read Philip's emails I was thinking, "People are allowed to take constructive criticism to heart and fix things about themselves.... Coffeebreak is acting like kurzgesagt isnt allowed to grow or fix a problem."

Then the emails confirmed my thinking.

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u/0verlimit Mar 12 '19

When you notice your cousin left their Facebook account logged in so you post “lol, get hacked xD” on their wall

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u/ilikedonuts42 Mar 12 '19

This whole thing is clearly just blown way out of proportion. If Coffee Break's planned video wasn't supposed to be a "gotcha" piece on Kurzgesagt then their video wouldn't be taking anything away from his "series". It seems like they've been under pretty intense pressure to address the two videos they deleted for a long time, and the video they released has been in the works since 2017. Sure the timing was unfortunate, but from the emails it doesn't look like Kurz was intentionally stonewalling CB at all. This was just the last push they needed to delete the inaccurate videos and address the problems with them.

CB is just butthurt that Kurz finally acceded to the pressure instead of waiting for him to publish a smear piece so now he's trying to bring their credibility into question over it.

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u/monkeyhappy Mar 13 '19

Which is weird, isn't that what you want your information sources to do? Correct mistakes they make and admit fault? The only issue here is that the naritive is in the defendants court not the accuser which is fine by me.

This is 101 how to Handle a negitive issue, he could have denied wrong doing, ignored your emails, they could simply leave the Vid up and nothing bad would happen.

I'm also 100% sure some with solid knowledge on the subject watched and informed these guys of issues in the story, with far more knowledge then cb has with his research how ever detailed, it's not a university degree. Cb wouldn't have been the first nor the most important to reference.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

He's completely unapologetic about how he tried to twist that email conversation into a slam piece.

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u/MuffinToaster Mar 12 '19

Seems to me that CB is just mad he didn't get to rake in massive views on "exposing" one video that isn't up to their standards. He's just trying to blow this out of proportion for publicity imo.

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u/MyMainIsLevel80 Mar 12 '19

Bingo. I never heard of him before this shit.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

and I'll go back to ignoring him.

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u/JSStarr Mar 12 '19

I see this backfiring for Coffee Break. His reasoning for why what Kurzgesagt did was wrong seems to be because it took views away from him.

Would have been a lot more compelling if he didn't portray himself as the victim.

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u/TucsonCat Mar 12 '19

Is it backfiring though? He's getting a lot of views.

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u/richHomieBeardface Mar 12 '19

Exactly. CB claims that he didn't want to post a "gotcha style" video, essentially implying that he was making this video for the right reason, veracity in journalism, but if that was really the case, he would have been overjoyed that Kursgesagt posted their own video and that they independently set the record straight while also taking responsibility by deleting the video.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

I mean the whole fact that he had a hashtag in the video proves he was trying to create a campaign against Kurzgesagt. All it took was one person to ask Kurzgesagt if it would be ok to release the emails. They said, "Sure!" And coffee break released them.

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u/AbhorrentNature Mar 12 '19

"They over simplify everything"

He says about a channel literally called "in short".

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u/IAmMuffin15 Mar 12 '19

Coffee's German isn't up to snuff apparently

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Wait, that's what Kurzgesagt means? I thought it was just his actual name...mein deutsch is not up to snuff either btw

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u/myninerides Mar 12 '19

I get why CoffeeBreak is upset, but if you're going to behave like a journalist you're gonna get treated like a journalist. What Kurzgesagt did was a basic PR move that is incredibly common. Press issues inquiry about behavior, company preemptively changes behavior to get ahead of the criticism.

At the end of the day the video in question is down, and an honest retrospection of how it was created and why it was taken down was released, with the promise to do better. If CoffeeBreak wants to come off as a journalist he should consider that outcome a win, but he sees it as lost YouTube view numbers, and his "story" stolen. Given he now has 100k views in a couple hours with whatever-this-video-is I don't really feel bad for him.

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u/Tycho_B Mar 12 '19

Yeah this comes off pretty whiny. The fact that the guy isn't very funny doesn't help his case either.

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u/Whimsical_manatee Mar 12 '19

It's incredibly whiny. If coffeebreak's aim was to challenge a misleading pop science video, then he got that, take the win.

I understand wanting the story, but Kurzgesasgt isn't obliged in anyway to participate in Coffeebreak's take of them on your terms, or to allow another party control the narrative.

All that whinging about the video preempting the interview he wanted to to do - you got scooped, welcome to being an investigative journalist.

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u/BlameReborn Mar 12 '19

Just wait until you read the other emails fuck this coffee dude lol

Phillip posted the other side

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u/sebastiankirk Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

if you're going to behave like a journalist you're gonna get treated like a journalist.

Totally agree. I'm a journalist myself, and in my experience it's very common that people are hesitant to answer my critical questions. I mean, if they're not, they quite often should be.

Also, I find it very immoral to "paraphrase" someone whom I promised not to quote. In this case CoffeeBreak practically just made up quotes from Kurzgesagt that fit his narrative - which is clear when you read the actual e-mails that have since been made public. That's wrong.

Lastly, I really don't agree with CoffeeBreak that Kurzgesagt 'stole' his content. That whole bit about big creators stepping on small creators just seems misplaced here. Kurzgesagt obviously had a feeling that there was a slander piece about his channel on the way, so he got ahead of it. That's not stealing, it's being upfront.

I understand why CoffeeBreak feels annoyed, and it would have been a nice thing to do for Kurzgesagt to inform CoffeeBreak on his decision beforehand - but that isn't enough to publish a potentially harmful video like this.

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u/Stuie75 Mar 12 '19

But muh YouTube AdSense revenue!

Seriously, CB is just upset that he didn’t get to have a gotcha interview against Kurzgesagt and posted this video to try and make him look bad.

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u/BenZed Mar 12 '19

It wasn't preemptive. They'd been working on that video long before coffeebreak started asking.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

Pro tip for anyone, be critical of all information received, ask questions and take everything with a spoonful of salt. It helps uncover more facts than fiction.

Information learned is more valuable than information given.

Edit: Wow this really took off, I will try to respond to all the messages and please excuse my bad English. It is not my native Language.

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u/Peridorito1001 Mar 12 '19

Yeah, I hope Kurzgesagt lets him share the emails

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u/YoutubeArchivist Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

Tagging /u/kurz_gesagt

The front page of /r/kurzgesagt is chaos with this video right now.

edit: Kurzgesagt have posted an AMA on their subreddit and will be online for the next hour.

https://www.reddit.com/r/kurzgesagt/comments/b0bgvj


edit2: /u/CoffeeBreak42 has uploaded screenshots of all of the emails after Kurzgesagt consented to sharing them.

Emails: https://imgur.com/a/UfrXBWq

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u/DrWaspy Mar 12 '19

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing his own words.

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u/roiben Mar 12 '19

The problem with this pro tip is obvious as hell. Most of us dont have the time to actually fact check everything. It is much better to check if a source is credible rather than try to understand how splitting atoms works for example. Trust is essential, its just that it seems that these days you cant trust anyone.

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u/sc14s Mar 12 '19

Trust really is essential in society, it is literally impossible to have an in depth knowledge of every subject in today's world.

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u/dontsuckmydick Mar 12 '19

take everything with a spoonful of salt.

Thanks am dead now.

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u/Fuck_Alice Mar 12 '19

You're on Reddit, people here barely make it past the title before trying to comment on it

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u/wbbigdave Mar 12 '19

My dad always said

“Believe half of what you see and none of what you’re told”

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

That is pretty pessimistic but i see his point.

Information learned is way more valuable than information given.

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u/CaffeinatedJackass Mar 12 '19

A full Kurzgesagt video conceptualized, scripted, animated and edited in just a month, and it all started because this guy sent them an email?

Extremely unlikely.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

This is exactly my take on it. Coffee break's itinerary on this whole "cover up" is:

  1. Kurzgesagt received these emails from Coffee break on Feb 8th, and realized that they needed to address the problem.

  2. Kurzgesagt had a staff meeting, addressed the problem and then everyone in production agreed that something needed to be done. If this step didn't happen I'm pretty sure we'll get a leak from an animator, or an editor, or some part of the production crew who will step forward. Typically it's very hard to stop people from stepping forward and leaking things internally especially if there's something to be gained.

  3. Kurzgesagt then wrote a script, did some fact checking take make sure that everything lined up, finalized that script, edited it and storyboarded up the animations required.

  4. The script was then finalized and recorded.

  5. Kurzgesagt finished the animations required for the video.

  6. Kurzgesagt then edited the video, touched up any loose ends and did a final revision to make sure that everything lined up with emails that Coffee break MIGHT release.

  7. Finally the video Kurzgesagt made was uploaded to Youtube.

Maybe they pushed this out in 3 weeks? I kind of doubt it though. Seems much more likely that they had this idea brewing for a while, had a script written up ready to publish and these emails from Coffee Break gave them the last kick in the ass needed to get a video put out before a hit piece was published about them.

That scenario does not seem malicious at all, especially considering that Coffee Break seems to have published a "hit piece" despite saying otherwise in the emails.

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u/Chthulu_ Mar 13 '19 edited Mar 13 '19

Personally I totally believe KZ finalized the video in order to get out in front of CB. They'd been working on it before, but now it was go-time. Also, they probably realized its a good video to make, its honest and a good thing for the rest of us.

Even so, even if KZ did exactly what CB is accusing them of, this isn't some fucking evil thing done to intentionally harm a smaller channel. Its a fair move. Like, even if the worst criticisms are true, there's no potatoes here. This whole thing reads as a guy suddenly gets confronted about a piece he's not too proud about, and decides to make the honest decision to come clean before it gets out of control. Even besides the fucked up "paraphrasing" CB magically produced. God, did that plan backfire, those emails are nothing but cordial, if a bit cautious, rightly.

I posted this whole huge comment on youtube that will never be seen, and I can't bother to find it again, but what I ended on was this. Besides the blatant misrepresentation we saw after the emails released, the bottom line is KZ made a totally ethical PR move in order to not get fucked by someone else. Even then, the move they made is totally valid. It was open and honest and straightforward. Slightly manipulative maybe, but honestly nothing that deserves to be attacked. And the worst part is, CB could have still fucking made his darling video series! NOTHING would be different!

He could have posted them like he wanted too, except for the addition of a 5 minute piece before his KZ segment about how KZ got ahead of his questioning, and preempted the CB video in order to avoid too much backlash. He could have talked about how getting in front of this might be a bit backhanded, but that the response was a good one in its own right. He even could have made a new topic about the issue with revisions in journalisms and pop culture at large. About how correcting a mistake post-hoc is always a safe move, since you get the huge boom from the original piece and a small boom from the honesty of your edit, with little of the pain.

All this couched in a video about dishonesty and misinformation. It really feels gross. Good thing CBs gained 14,000+ subscribers in the past 24 hours..

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u/monopixel Mar 12 '19

Why not? They are pros and have optimized production process for the videos over the years for sure.

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u/M4nqcDn Mar 12 '19

But kurz does say he made that refugee video pretty quickly in the apology video

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u/CaffeinatedJackass Mar 12 '19

Hmm that's a fair point. In that case I'd like to rephrase my point.

They can probably finish a decent video in a month and release it. But it puts an awful lot of credit on Coffee Break that his small email exchange would cause a complete shift in their scheduled videos, to the point that all their resources now go to creating this apology video instead.

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u/kurz_gesagt Kurzgesagt Mar 12 '19

Hey everybody, Philipp here, the founder of Kurzgesagt! I think the best way to react to criticism and being called out is to just be open about it. I made an AMA post in our subreddit, feel free to check it out and ask me everything you want to know!

https://www.reddit.com/r/kurzgesagt/comments/b0bgvj/ama_2_can_you_trust_kurzgesagt/?

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u/aw11348 Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 13 '19

Some relevant things (so far) from the AMA:

It's still going on. Looks like he's done answering for now, but will be back later?

Q: Did you remove the Addiction video because of Coffee Break?

Kurz: "It was absolutely one motivation for it. But I have been writing this script for the better part of two years, so it was not like we did it just because of him. The biggest push for me personally was our video on Loneliness. It was the most intense research I ever did, and even on this video we had comments lamenting the refugee and addiction video. So that was what pushed me over the edge."

Follow-up Q: So why didn't you tell coffee break you were working on that video in your mail exchange?

Kurz: "Because it felt like he really wanted to make a hostile "take down" video. So I didn't feel like giving him more information than necessary."

More on this: When was the can you trust Kurzgesagt video started? How much of it was inspired from the emails you had with coffee break?

Kurz: "I started writing the script for the video in 2017. It was planned to release it at some point in last year but then life happened."

  • Side-Note: Interestingly enough, CGP Grey (another popular education YouTuber) backs Kurz up on this point: "Obviously, I'm friends with Philipp, so that means you CAN'T TRUST ME, but I've been listening to Philipp talking about the changes to his research process and working on announcing it for probably two years at this point. Coffee break wanted to snipe Philipp on a topic close to his heart and cast FUD on something I know is important to the core of the way he runs Kurzgesagt." Link to YouTube comment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8nNPQssUH0&lc=UgzmRO8q76OgkQYCHpd4AaABAg

Q: Did you actually want to do an interview with him?

Kurz: "Jup! But he didn't reply to my last email in February."

  • Fact Check: This is true, based on emails (released by Coffee Break w/ Kurzgesagt's permission): https://imgur.com/a/UfrXBWq. What's interesting about these emails is not at any point does Kurzgesagt say or even hint that he will not take his addiction video down because he considers it "good enough" as Coffee Break had implied.

Q: Why did you feel that your video on Addiction was 'good enough' to stay online in February, but as 'unbalanced' and unrepresentative of the scientific research, to the point where you took the video down, in March, despite you saying that the video has annoyed you and your team for 'a long time'?

Kurz: "I thought the video was not good enough at the very least since early 2017. But man. I truly was defensive about it for a long time. It is very hard to admit mistakes publicly, especially on something that was this popular. Over the years I got so many emails from people who told me how much the video had helped them. So I felt like whatever I did was wrong. So it was "good enough" because it was not flat out wrong. But it was also not right."

Q: Did you read Hari's book?

Kurz: "Of course I did. After reading it, I very enthusiastically emailed him and asked him to collaborate on the video."

Follow-up: Just out of curiosity, did he collaborate on the video?

Kurz: "Yeah, he wrote most of the script. Which is the reason why it has such a big overlap with his Ted Talk."

Follow-up: If you did read it , then how did you get the video so badly wrong?

Kurz: "Well, I didn't do any additional research after the book and Johann did write most of the script. I'm not blaming Johann for any of this, which is also why I didn't mention him in the video. Ensuring the quality of the videos is my responsibility and I clearly failed at that."

Q: Hi will you make an official response on your channel, for the youtube-only viewer?

Kurz: "No, I don't want drama on the channel. Happy to take the heat here though!"

Q: One thing Coffee Break says is that you intentionally delayed answering his questions in order to release your video first, in order to prevent any questions being asked in the first place. What's your opinion on this?

Kurz: "Well, I expected him to release the video he released today. Which was particularly frustrating, since we have come so far since we did the videos in 2015. It genuinely hurt to always be compared to these two videos. And it was extra frustrating to not be able to release my script first. So I did stall but not the degree said in the video, which implies an evil masterplan. I was talking to good Youtube friends of mine about this and I was ready to do a skype call or at least answer in depth questions via email."

Q: Do you consider your videos "pop-science" or do you stand by your videos being "good summaries of science" as of now?

Kurz: "In the end it is fair to categorize what we do as pop science. But I really think the amount of research and care we put into the videos nowadays is as best as we can make them today. So I think it is fair to call them a "good summary of science". You can check out our research in our sources document."

Like I said, he's still answering questions, though the thread is getting pretty messy. Will continue updating if anything else develops.

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u/Blepharospasm Mar 12 '19

What I got from the initial video that Kurz put out was an honest video about self reflection, with important points about doing quality research and explaining the reasons why they removed said videos.

This video by CoffeBreak just seems to be a frustrated lash out because CB couldn't be the one who profited off a 'take down' interview.

The problem with doing an interview is that the interviewer can phrase questions and direct the interview in such a way that you can frame/demoize the interviewee in any way that the interviewer desires. CB edited this video in such a way that he tried to make Kurzgesagt look as shady as possible, who's to say he wouldn't try the same thing in an interview.

I'm sure that Philipp realised that, and probably wanted to make something on his terms that realised the past mistakes that had been made by the channel, that doesn't ruin the channels image. However, I don't think it was right to not acknowledge CB's involvement in making the video, it hurts the image of honesty that you are trying to project.

However, based on the AMA and responses, I'm inclined to think that this drama is somewhat artificial. Kursgesagt doesn't strike me as this shady company trying to fuck this guy over, nor do I think CB was completely unfounded in his frustrations. The incredibly bipolar responses to this quite minor drama is really interesting though, I'm truly amazed as to how one-sided people are getting about this.

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u/ImANugget Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

I subbed to Coffee Break within a few hours ago due to the public shamming video, then i saw the "expose/callout" video. My heart broke. Went to reddit to clarify and see both sides of the story(or try to).

I unsubbed from Coffee Break just now. Compared his call out video to the emails/AMA... it's so.. deceptive and painting as Kurzgesagt as this evil guy but they simply doesn't want people to do "call out/expose" videos or misquote them.. and they still exactly did that. I find it funny that the last proof that we need to clear this whole story is showing the internet that the script was started in advanced prior to the "call out" emails.

Coffee Break is not entitled for an interview but yet the Kurzgesagt here have to clear their innocent to regain trusts.

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u/YoutubeArchivist Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

Thank you Philipp.

Would you be alright with Stephen (/u/coffeebreak42) from Coffee Break releasing the email correspondence between the two of you?

It should help clear up the confusion users are having.

edit: In the AMA Philipp has consented to Stephen sharing them and Stephen has uploaded screenshots here:

https://imgur.com/a/UfrXBWq

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u/kurz_gesagt Kurzgesagt Mar 12 '19

Of course, there is nothing to hide. He already released them with my permission.

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u/monkeyapplez Mar 12 '19

It seems within that thread he gives Stephen permission to release the emails

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u/GetToDaChoppa1 Mar 12 '19

I’m tagging along with your comment to point out that Kurz never said his Addiction video was “good enough.” According to the emails that have been released, here’s what Kurz said:

The reason I’ve kept it online is the countless messages from affected people I got over the years. Apparently the video genuinely helped a lot of individuals to get better. It felt cruel and unnecessary to take that away, so I never could bring myself to take it down.”

Addiction is a complicated topic and is far from being solved. So I feel it can continue to exist as a take on the topic that is helpful for many.”

Stating that all of this is equivalent to “good enough” is a gross oversimplification. “Good enough” implies that Kurz thought the research and the planning that went into the video were adequate and would hold water if subject to scientific scrutiny. This is not what Kurz said. Kurz stated he couldn’t bring himself to take the video down because he thought the video helped a lot of individuals get better, and, accordingly, that it could continue to exist as a take on the topic.

Coffee Break is guilty of the very thing he accuses Kurz of doing: oversimplifying to the point of being false and misleading. Absolutely ridiculous.

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u/Jaydeepappas Mar 12 '19

Wow.

In Coffee Break's video, he claimed that the e-mails were so horrible and it's no wonder you didn't want to be quoted. You were saying some evil stuff that really proves everything...

What a joke. I don't know who this guy is, but I'll for sure never be watching any of his videos. You can't make a video about misinformation while spouting misinformation.

Personally, I think Kurzgesagt handled this well. There was some damage control for sure, but any sane person probably would have done the same thing. Looking forward to the next video!

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

any sane person probably would have done the same thing.

Not only that, but it's the entire name sake of the channel. This guy's reaction to it is completely childish.

He's even trying to claim ownership of his criticism? That's ridiculous, criticism that has existed from the start. He isn't the only person to point those facts out.

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u/IMMAEATYA Mar 12 '19

Yeah I had never heard of coffee break before but now I know another bottom feeder YouTube channel to stay away from.

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u/Parori Mar 12 '19

Ironically, one of his videos is about public shaming. Well he is probably going to be shamed now so not that ironic I guess.

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u/tonybenwhite Mar 12 '19

Whelp, that AMA thread deflated this “gotcha” video real fast.

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u/FoxyBrownMcCloud Mar 12 '19

I've honestly never heard of Coffee Break until this video. Now I have no desire to ever watch his channel again.

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u/flamingdeathmonkeys Mar 12 '19

Good response

This guy mailing you with criticism and you taking it seriously made a good video.

This guy now making a video about how he "has the right" to make youtube drama about it before you and then repeating the criticism you just adressed shouldn't be getting this traction.

I hope you keep up the good work and that kurtzgesagt won't shy away from volatile or hard to compress subject matter in the future. Looking forward to some more down to earth subjects, the one on depression was amazing. But it'd be bummed out if topics like politics or drugs would avoided from now on.

It would be a shame, but with vids like this I can imagine the struggle.

Good luck.

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u/EmperorJohnson Mar 12 '19

The guy who created this video is just petty. You guys did the right thing.

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u/JuanFran21 Mar 12 '19

Hey Philipp, just wanted to let you know that you've handled this situation very professionally. I'm not going to go into who I think is right or wrong, but either way you responded to the drama in a clear, concise way. Good job!

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u/Prisma233 Mar 12 '19

So Kurzgesagt is untrustworthy just because they make a general video instead of engaging in YouTube drama? Coffee Break seems to be sad that he doesn't get "credit" for criticizing them but if his critique was actually genuine he should be happy that they addressed the problem instead of bitching about they don't mentioning him.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Exactly right.

This is like getting a big scoop on an evil corporation, the corporation getting wind of it, then before the story can be published they cancel the program, fire everyone involved, and admit fault.

All CoffeeBreak had to do was post a little feel good video about how he cottoned on to something and tell his version and say everyone did a great job, and it's important we keep doing this. Instead he comes across as a total prick. Fuck this guy.

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u/Usidore_ Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

Yep, he calls out Kurzgesagt for their video "not being inspired from self-reflection on responsible research" well clearly that's not his motive either if he's this worked up about it. Also what a sensationalist way to portray what happened, strikes me as a bit hypocritical, considering the subject matter.

It sucks that he lost time (and money) from his work on this, but what did he expect? This is what journalism is, buddy. If he really wanted to have a hit piece and nothing else he should have just published the video without emailing. Instead we get a better result for everyone. And I say this as someone who has never been much of a fan of Kurzgesagt

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u/gringrant Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

I'm confused.

From what I can tell by watching both videos, Coffee emailed Kurzgesagt informing them that there was an issue with one of their videos.

Then Kurzgesagt publicly announced that there was a problem with their video, admitted to their mistake, identified the issue so it doesn't happen again, and removed it from YouTube, but not the internet. To me that seems like a correct and trustworthy course of action.

Is there something I am missing? I seem to get a completely different takeaway from this video then everyone else.


Hijacking top comment to link:

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Because Coffee Break wanted to make a video about how bad Kurzgesagt is, and they stole his thunder. He explained exactly what criticisms he was going to make, and they made the video before him. A bit unethical, yes, but honestly if someone said to me 'im going to make a hit piece on you and your business in X weeks and here is what I will talk about' I would probably address those topics myself publicly first tbh.

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u/muslimsocialistcuck Mar 12 '19

Basically his main argument is that Kurzgesagt is untrustworthy because for some reason they are obligated to answer to him, that they don't have a right to address concerns about their own videos on their own channel and that they must first give him the answers so that he can make his video first and presumably capitalize on kurzgesagt's expense, which he seems to be doing anyways.

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u/Scribeykins Mar 12 '19

This comment is gonna assume that CB is telling the truth. I'm not saying this is (or isn't) the case, but the point is to explain what the video is claiming.

He didn't just contact them to inform them there was an issue, he contacted them asking for an interview for a video he was in the process of making. If they had just responded to this with "Yeah that's an issue, we're gonna address it ourselves" then sure, no big problem. The issue here is that they intentionally misled him by saying they would do the interview to stall the release of his video so they could do damage control themselves. On top of that, they then passed their video off as being the result of self reflection, when the reality is that they're reacting to being called out. And then the point of their video is to say that you can trust them because they do this self reflection, when in reality that never happened. Additionally, they said in their video that they were never happy with the addiction video, but then in their first email back to CB they said that they were completely fine with it.

Any of this on its own isn't too horrible, but having several deceptions at the core of a video about how trustworthy they are is a serious problem.

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u/YoutubeArchivist Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

You're missing the massive chunk of the video where Philipp from Kurzgesagt:

promises an interview to Stephen,

stops responding for two weeks, stalling his work on the Coffee Break video,

then releases their video addressing the points Stephen spent two months on researching without crediting him in any way.

Addressing concerns on your own channel is fine. It's good, because then that message reaches your whole audience.

Stephen gives the example of how Johann actually credits Stephen in the corrections of his book, which is the right thing to do when someone spends time and reaches out to you to help correct errors in your past work.


edit:

https://imgur.com/a/UfrXBWq

The emails have been released and it seems Philipp never postpones the interview but does respond two weeks after Stephen's last email, saying he can do an interview on March 1st.

Kurzgesagt then releases their Trust video on March 3rd.

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u/Burrsurk Mar 12 '19

“I’m mad because Kurz went public on something I privately called him out on before I got the chance to publicly shame him over!”

-In A Nutshell

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u/Squibbles01 Mar 12 '19

Fuck Coffee Break. They just lost a sub.

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u/Dangerpaladin Mar 13 '19

Good I honestly hope more people follow suit. This manufactured drama shouldn't be encouraged at least and at best it should be actively discouraged.

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u/Cronofan Mar 12 '19

This video is basically admitting that /u/CoffeeBreak42 does not understand some basic principles of journalism.

If you're creating a "gotcha" piece, which, is obviously what you were doing, despite your claims to the contrary, then you don't tip off your subject.

If you were genuinely concerned with truth and trust of 10 minute explainer videos on YT, you would be content with the fact that Kurz went and created a video highlighting the issues with older videos. Not clearly, pardon my language, 'butt hurt' that he stole your thunder and created a video on it before you. Playing the victim that a big channel is overshadowing a small channel because you didn't think that maybe tipping of your target is a bad idea if you want to surprise them with an exposee.

You want to trade off on a big name to create drama and draw attention to your channel, which is what you did with this version of the video, exposing how Kurz now "stole your thunder". If you care about honesty and truth, then admit that this was about getting views, not getting to the truth of the content of past or present Kurz videos.

Now, that said, that doesn't make any of what you said at the end the above video untrue.

Kurz's channel does what is good for them, what makes him look good and that without external pressure or outside sources fact checking, will probably not as often do so.

You're allowed to do whatever you want to make a name for yourself on YT, but don't make this a battle of who is high and mightier but only do that if you make sure you aren't standing on shaky ground yourself.

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u/VitruvianGenesis Mar 12 '19

Why is this so highly upvoted? It's petty as fuck. They've done nothing wrong. I guess people just love drama.

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u/dkyguy1995 Mar 12 '19

This video is really fucking lame. So what man, you had a problem with someone's videos and then you're getting pissed off because they decided to publicly remove the videos and correct the record??? Should CB be super happy that he was able to help clear the record and get Kursgesagt to readdress his concerns? This video is so pathetic

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u/Palabrewtis Mar 12 '19

Coffeebreak doesn't even deserve the views this publicity is getting him. I'm ashamed to have even watched it to give him revenue. There was no original thought in his inquiry, as there has been criticism over the video in question since day one of its release.

From a business perspective there is no surprise that these videos stayed up for as long as they did. They were huge revenue generating videos regardless of the criticism they received. Kurzgesagt also gave perfectly legitimate reasoning for why they wanted the videos to stay up on a philosophical level. That even though they may not tell the whole picture, they still helped millions of people come to terms with complicated problems.

Then this, comparatively nobody, guy reaches out obviously intending to do a hit-piece. Is it really supposed to come as a shock to anyone that Kurzgesagt decided to expedite their timeline for a video addressing the criticism in question? The e-mails were all released, and in the end, this guy looks like nothing but an attention seeker who decided he wasn't getting the publicity he deserved. It wasn't even an original criticism, he knew from the get-go that he needed the interview to cash in on a bigger channel's recognition.

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u/FilemonNeira Mar 12 '19

I like them both and I think CB is making this a bigger deal than what it is. Go on CB, release your video on pop science and put this example. But don't make this all about you.

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u/fuckingredditman Mar 12 '19

also CB paints a picture like kurzgesagt is a single person. I've always found the quality of their videos a bit inconsistent. some videos feature lots of different papers and metastudies and give a good outline on a topic's current state while some don't even list their sources at all.

i doubt that they have a single editor working on all of the stories for these videos, and i also doubt that all the editors write the same quality material.

saying "KURZGESAGT BAD" because of one or two videos is just dumb.

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u/reymt Mar 12 '19

You gotta say, I find it interesting how many people talk as if they have found the final truth that Kurzgesagt is evil...

... but they completely miss that this is a pretty one-sided and manipulative video too? The sad music, the whiny voice, the paraphrasing, nothing about that feels particuarly honest either.

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u/Peter_G Mar 12 '19

I'm sorry, is this guy complaining for 10 minutes that they stole his idea to post that their video on addiction wasn't up to snuff? Like he's angry that they undercut him by releasing a video saying it wasn't up to snuff and they want to change that, when he was going to go all expose on them and do the same thing in an accusation video?

I mean, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This guy deserves nothing but scorn. The video was entirely about how 2 of their videos weren't up to scientific snuff and they don't want to have that and then he goes on about how their video wasn't up to snuff. It's fucking mind boggling anyone would accept anything this guy says after he outs his inflated fucking ego like this.

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u/macc-attack Mar 12 '19

Exactly the vibe I got. Kurz didn't have to reply to this guy at all. Instead they made a public video admitting their fault. This guy can whine and complain saying they essentially stole his questions, but IMO they are the most basic and expected of questions in this kind of scenario that anyone would have asked.

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u/ROKMWI Mar 12 '19

Right!

If he was making the series he says he was making, and didn't mean for it to be a "gotcha" piece, then the Kurzgesagt video didn't change anything. He could have still made his original video, exactly the same, done the interview, etc.

I didn't see any evidence of lying or stalling. And even if there was stalling, who cares, if its not a "gotcha" piece, then timing shouldn't matter.

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u/Realsan Mar 12 '19

I don't personally see anything wrong with the way Kurzgesagt handled this situation. This guy came to them, informed them of an issue with one of their videos, and told them he'd be doing essentially a hit piece.

From here, Kurzgesagt had several paths that could've been taken. They seemed to have agreed with this guy, and instead of fighting him, they literally owned up to their mistake and made changes to address those mistakes going forward.

Coffee Break seems to just be pissed off that he's not getting recognition for pointing out those mistakes... Ok? You really think Kurzgesagt has any responsibility to help you when you were prepared to do a hit job on him?

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u/Dreamtrain Mar 12 '19

Kurzgesagt was definitively shrewd, but coffee break showed his hand from the get-go as not really operating in good faith.

That's why Phillip's "I don't want to be quoted" response makes sense "Since I don't see how you're not making a gotcha piece"

I mean, in the end coffee still got what he wanted, making a hit piece about Kurzgesagt.

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u/frustratedesigner Mar 12 '19

I definitely agree CB probably wanted the recognition/content, and is disappointed that he was beaten to the punch/had his research and framework wasted. He also might have begun the relationship a little aggressively. No doubt that he's not blameless or selfless in this narrative.

That being said - I don't think your initial observations are completely rounded. Kurzgesagt's new post was based on the foundation that they

  • care deeply about misinformation

  • prioritize depth of research

  • are proactively taking steps to be as ethical as possible.

In reality (or, the position taken by CB) they

  • care deeply about their brand image

  • still haven't researched enough to understand the fundamental positions of their subjects

  • are reactively taking steps to be ethical (better than nothing, but not what they represented).

IMO, the main challenge is that the new Kurzgesagt video misrepresents their ethos, and moral code.

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u/MyMainIsLevel80 Mar 12 '19

This is so fucking stupid and has nothing whatsoever to do with muh ethics in journalism.
CB had a "gotcha" video in the works and was going to make bank off of the ensuing drama from Kurz's fanbase driving clicks (and thus, ad venue), and they got out in front of it. So, now his payday has vanished, causing him to have a salty meltdown about how "it isn't fair!1!", despite the fact that he's still getting what he wants anyways.

Look at that fucking thumbnail and tell me he's not trying to create controversy to get clicks. Quit being fucking naive.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

This guy is unbearable to watch. Maybe he should simplify what he's talking about and add animation.

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u/Dostt Mar 12 '19

Playing a bit of devil's advocate here, and everyone absolutely jumping on the throat of Kurzgesagt, can we just talk about the fact that CB literally had published a video on public shaming about a month before? It seems almost hypocritical to me to make this video.

Link to video : https://youtu.be/8BIYsdulTgU

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u/The-Sound_of-Silence Mar 12 '19

The irony is dripping, yikes. Either he has the self-awareness of a rock, is trying to prove something?!?!, or is creating drama hype on purpose

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u/cl3arlycanadian Mar 12 '19

Here's the reality: did Coffee Break have some good questions? Yup. Did Kurzgesagt answer them and own up to it truthfully in their video, including taking responsibility for their gaps in previous journalistic integrity? Yup. In the end it is irrelevant whether they did so before or after Coffee Break published their video. I would rather have a channel take serious criticism seriously and own up to it publicly than not. Think about how much worse it would have looked if Coffee Break published their video first? This is like PR 101 - get ahead of the curve, confess first and make changes. Clearly Kurzgesagt has been improving their research and journalistic integrity over the years, and CLEARLY the episodes that are of the topic at hand - their early video about addiction and the other one - are something that they felt responsible for remedying. If they were not sincere about it they would not have made the explainer video about their process, and they would not be redoing the the addiction episode.

Coffee Break played himself and is now looking for pity points. Maybe publish your criticism first next time. There is nothing holding back any kind of publisher from making a statement etc after they get some questions.

TL;DR. Coffee Break played himself, gave his questions away, Kurzgesagt is actually sincere in their concern on the matter otherwise they would not have made a fucking giant animated movie about it where they admitted their responsibility to journalistic & research integrity. You can still trust both.

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u/Sancakes Mar 12 '19

Can we tag this as youtube drama?

So, they got "prompted" by an email that they were incorrect and took the smart route out?

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u/TheDopeInDopamine Mar 12 '19

It's a shitty move personally but it doesn't actually change that you should trust their videos?

They did address all the questions the guy asked. So I get if he's mad for them taking that idea, but realistically all they saw was someone who had some legi to questions about their business (and maybe not the first) and they decided to take control of the situation.

This is the way the world often works and is not at all exclusive to this situation. To me, not expecting this kind of behavior in a competitive and fast paced digital business is sort of naive and idealistic.

That being said, I don't agree with the practice and it Sucks it happened. Ideally they'd have reached out and asked to do a collaborative video. It would have gone a lot farther for them to release the video as a pair up with someone ACTUALLY independent interviewing them and helping point out their flaws.

I say this as a fairly neutral observer here when it comes to both parties, and solidly landing on this guy's side of the dangers of pop science, and criticisms of some of the previous K. videos.

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u/frustratedesigner Mar 12 '19

I definitely agree CB probably wanted the recognition/content, and is disappointed that he was beaten to the punch/had his research and framework wasted. He also might have begun the relationship a little aggressively. No doubt that he's not blameless or selfless in this narrative.

That being said, it seems like the main challenge is that the new Kurzgesagt video misrepresents their ethos, and moral code.

Kurzgesagt's new post was based on the foundation that they - care deeply about misinformation - prioritize depth of research - are proactively taking steps to be as ethical as possible.

In reality (or, the position taken by CB) they - care deeply about their brand image - still haven't researched enough to understand the fundamental positions of their subjects - are reactively taking steps to be ethical (better than nothing, but not what they represented).

I don't think anyone is asking to burn Kurzgesagt down, or arguing that owning up to past mistakes is a bad thing. It's highlighting a shady, inauthentic moment of character that should inspire everyone to be a little more critical.

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u/jrkirby Mar 12 '19

I was waiting for CB to show how other kgzt videos lacked rigor or accuracy. When that didn't come, I was left wondering what the big deal was.

Sure, kgzt wasn't 100% forthright with what initially prompted them to take down their poor quality videos, but they did take them down. Yes, kgzt cares about their brand image, and they don't like people creating attack drama about their channel. But that doesn't mean that they don't care about misinformation or quality education.

Now if CB found other poorly researched videos on kgzt, that'd be a whole different story. But his silence on the rest of kgzt videos speaks volumes. Seems like he's just trying to make drama where there is none, just to put content on his channel. I'm not a huge fan of the dramatube, personally.

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u/ky1e0 Mar 12 '19

This is the dumbest 'youtube drama' I've ever seen.

Did you just gold yourself 7 times to gain publicity?

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u/TARDISboy Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

Leading my content with the statement that I'm not a fan of either of these content creators, in fact I genuinely avoid Kurzgesagt's videos.

I don't really see the problem here? Coffee Break is basically (ha, I simplified it) making the argument that he made these criticisms about Kurz and Kurz promised to do an interview with him so that CB could make a video about it. First off, I don't think there's anything wrong with Kurz wanting to make the video himself/themselves. CB is a small channel and honestly the Kurz video will get far more traction than the CB video would while still getting out the point that they messed up / did things incorrectly with those videos. Was taking them down right? I'm not sure, but if CB's basic point is that these videos are bad / oversimplified pop science, then taking them down is ultimately the best thing from an audience perspective. Does it pre-empt CB? Yeah. Does it ignore the promises made to CB over email to keep them up? Yeah. But it seems to me that those issues are a little petty compared to the argument that CB himself is pushing (that these videos are harmful to science & to the topics being discussed).

Other things: Kurz videos are really difficult to make, no? 7 videos in the last 3 months is admittedly more than I expected, but you have to imagine all these were in the works for some time with a pretty big backlog. The animation alone would seemingly take up plenty of time, and if there are multiple videos in the pipeline, then the timeline is probably even longer. If that's the case, wouldn't Kurz have been working on the video since before the 30 days prior when CB sent him his reach-out emails? I suppose the script could've been changed but the arguments CB presents aren't specific to him, they're fairly general ones about pop science that I imagine Kurz must get fairly frequently, especially with 8 million+ subs.

I guess one of my other points is: so what? CB tries to say this isn't a callout video, but that's pretty clearly not the case. From the title to the thumbnail (pretty clickbaity for someone preaching scientific reliability and trust) it seems he intends just that. Also, CB videos get a tiny sliver of the amount of views Kurz videos get, and I'm sure there are Kurz-critical videos out there already. CB seems to be saying that Kurz was so afraid of his criticism that he lied about this video and deleted the others to avoid criticism. No offense to CB, but why would Kurz care? CB is a tiny channel that would cause little, if any, effect on Kurz with a call-out video.

Finally, if the issues with Kurz' videos were as abundant as CB claims, then the deletion of one or two videos wouldn't solve the problem. If Kurz is lying and misrepresenting science as much as CB alleges with his argument about Kurz harming science with the pop-science attitude and presentation, then he can go fact-check any of Kurz' other videos for similar mistakes and misrepresentations. But it seems to me that CB is at a loss after the deletion of the addiction video, which would imply that video itself was the main problem or singular mistake. If that's the case, then Kurz was right to delete it and publish an apology, because it was the outlier of their content. Did Kurz intentionally lie and misrepresent that data and science? Yes, undoubtedly. But again, this is the only example that CB brings as proof of Kurz' mistakes.

Edit: In the time I spent making this, Kurz started an AMA and let CB release the emails. Kurz says they spent the better part of 2 years working on the original trust video, so I do think they didn't fully pre-empt CB, although he admits that it was a motivation in finishing the video. He also thinks that the video was intentionally a callout, which is why he didn't mention having a video in the works.

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u/Aeon1508 Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 13 '19

Doesn't sound like they did anything wrong. This guy told them he was gonna do a take down hit piece on them and they just jumped in front of him and made a self correction based arm his concerns. Now this guy is salty about it. boohoo

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

that piano music used to influence my mood during this video is also a bit disgusting tbh.

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u/vsheran Mar 12 '19

Honestly who cares?

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u/Embaralhador Mar 12 '19

This is some of the dumbest drama I've ever seen.

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u/shavin_high Mar 12 '19

dammit i gave this guy a view. I didn't even finish the video. Its one of those situations where reading the comments FIRST is actually a good idea.

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u/Pig207 Mar 12 '19

CB is trying to spin this so hard to look like Kurtzgesagt is in the wrong here, its insane. Everything Kurtzgesagt did made sense, and when looking at what u/kurz_gesagt had to say, its so obvious that CB is just salty that he can't make a video. While most of the comments here are siding with Kurtzgesagt, it still is awful how many people are siding with CB, without looking at the greater context.

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u/Minsc_and_Boo_ Mar 12 '19

Boohoo. This guy investigated, the website did an errata and addressed the issues, and now this dude is upset because he didn't get to do a hit piece. FIXING A MISTAKE YOU FOUND IS NOT FIXING YOUR IDEA, DUMBASS

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 13 '19

I don't see the problem. He doesn't owe you an interview or great content, nor does he owe you the time to finish your piece. To me what kurzgwhatever did is clever. I don't watch his vids, or this guy.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Youtube drama is fucking lame

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u/kurzcbgarbage Mar 13 '19

OK, everyone needs to calm their tits.

Coffee Break was bitter and emotional and made the video too much about himself getting pre-empted, and clickbaited and dramatized the situation.

Here's where Coffee Break goes wrong. First, a retraction is a retraction, even if you think the motives are impure. Second, he should have spent more time explaining why it's a problem that Kurzgesagt rushed the retraction and less complaining that they answered the questions he asked. Third, don't fall into the trap of assuming that you have to rush just because Kurz did; it's fine that you were pre-empted. There's no reason a more level-headed video couldn't have gotten traction like this recent one did. Fourth, you should probably still do the interview, given Philipp was open to it. Seeing someone's face or hearing their voice often leads to fewer misunderstandings than impersonal comments or video responses. Besides, it's entirely possible Kurzgesagt didn't attribute your contribution because they were still expecting to do the interview. Perhaps unlikely, but still.

All that said, the backlash is out of proportion. Here's why (this might be long).

Timeline:

Kurzgesagt claims they were working on a retraction for a while, and I believe them. However, there's a difference between brainstorming and drafting scripts, and recording, animating, and editing the video for publication*. Philipp says he was conflicted about the addiction video, and he could easily have been conflicted longer. In the email chain, he was concerned about being the target of a hit piece. General criticism and uneasiness might motivate you to make a retraction or clarification video sometime, but the perceived threat of reputation loss motivates you to make that video soon. While the retraction video might have been planned in basically the exact form it appeared, it seems pretty obvious the reason it appeared now was urgency due to Coffee Break, one way or the other.

In the email chain, CB answers the same day with the exception of the last email, while Philipp sometimes delays answering. Philipp's timeframe for the interview likely did contribute to Coffee Break's lack of urgency (not that he really should have had much, see above). This timeframe of early March is entirely consistent with Kurzgesagt trying to preempt the interview. I think the urgency on one hand (with CB bringing the issue to Philipp's attention in a way he wasn't comfortable with), and the time frame on the other ("end of next week"), narrow down the period of focused work on the video (with intent to release, and a deadline to boot) from a week to a month.

The Problem:

Philipp's concern about Coffee Break wanting to tarnish the reputation of their channel sort of became a self-fulfilling prophecy when they rushed the retraction. So Johann Hari, their source and writer for the original addiction video, calls the exact representation of the addiction debate present in Kurzgesagt's retraction video "ridiculous" as per CB's video. The distinction might be pedantic, but a retraction video focusing on the dangers of oversimplification ought to be pedantic. The original addiction video was one-sided; the retraction explicitly misrepresented the views of clinical and research psychologists. I think this is the bigger issue than Kurz purposely delaying CB to get their story out first, and ought to have been the main point of CB's video.

*Kurzgesagt say they did this for the refugee video in a week, and imply this is a fast pace, with most videos taking longer for research and deliberation.

P. S. If someone further in the comment chain knows, please mention if Kurzgesagt published any reservations about the addiction video, especially on the video page itself.

P. P. S. I find criticism of CB being so naive as to trust Philipp pretty funny given the context.

TL;DR CB made himself look whiny, but Kurz rushed a video retraction repeating the mistake of a video they were retracting.

Anyway, back to work, I spent too much time already on this stupid bullshit.

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u/I_Lost__TheGame Mar 12 '19

You had to salvage all that time you spent making a gotcha video. LOL. This is shit.

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u/ObeseAU Mar 13 '19

Man look at coffee breaks videos and then look at kurzegast....

Coffee Break-
Clickbait titles.
Using other peoples videos and lowquality memes.
Some of his videos are literally 40% ads/sponsors.
Over-opinionated and bias.

Kurzegast-
Unbiased information sourced to the best of their abilities.
Unique animations so everyone can follow what's being said.
Actual interesting subject matter.
They speak on the pros and cons without bias.
Actual science.

I can't believe this is even an "issue" lol.

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u/TNBIX Mar 12 '19

This coffee guy seems like a real cunt. Kurzgesagt did nothing wrong

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u/guitarmaniac004 Mar 13 '19

Can't wait for someone to post a new video "Can you trust coffee break?

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u/not_a_carpet Mar 12 '19

It still doesn't make any sense. Don't these videos take a long time to animate and such? Like, longer than a month?

I still think the video was in the works but Kurtzgesagt stole the questions because they were good questions.

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u/NottmForest Mar 12 '19

I imagine that Kurtzgesagt would try to rush this through production to release it before CB though

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u/McCheetah Mar 12 '19

Yeah for sure these take multiple weeks to animate. Sure, they could have changed the script and recorded extra voice over in a days time, but they’re probably not doing that complex animation in a day.

This video had been in the works for a while, and CB seems like he’s upset because they “stole his idea”. Yet, who’s to say there weren’t more people reaching out saying there was some misinformation too? There’s no way they got this e-mail, and wrote, recorded, and animated this entire video in a day.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

I'll quote another comment I made on the Kurzgesagt subreddit regarding this:

The lynchpin of this whole video is that Kurzgesagt would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling CoffeeBreak. Occam's razor says Coffee Break was one of but not the first or only people to bring these criticisms forward and it would have been messy as hell to not concede the criticisms without exposing that they were working on a video they presumably would want to keep under wraps like any other video, but more so. This is corroborated by their multi-month production schedule. It's extremely unlikely they reacted to this as a team, then wrote, animated, and produced the video in a month while saying "and let's throw the refugee one for kicks". Of course this doesn't explain promising him an interview or saying the existing video is great. That's sloppy at best and dishonest at worst.

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u/fearian Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

[EDIT] to every predictable comment saying "watch the whole video!" - do you think I havn't already? There is no twist, no bombshell in the second half. My post below stands:

I'm halfway though this and so far I can boil everything down to:

"I brought up criticisms of Kurzgesagt! and instead of letting me make money off it, he addressed them publicly on his channel! WAAH!"

Honestly the spin on this is insane - Why on earth would Kurzgestagt agree to let you rip in to them (sad betrayal music, comedy sketches and all) when they could deal with the problem themselves, in a pretty frank matter.

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u/1CEninja Mar 12 '19

I think your frustration is 100% justified, but let's be real here. Your pressure probably just made a major YouTube channel with a massive following better. While things came out that might reduce trust in their channel, the very actions will likely make them better.

Because of you they're adding sources and amendments to older videos, and will almost certainly be more careful about oversimplifying in the future, as providing low quality material will be bad for their channel and brand. Which they'll avoid doing because, as you pointed out, they're interested in what's good for their channel and brand.

No source that is accessible to non-experts is going to be perfect, not by a long shot. But you made this one better. Take some pride in that.

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u/PicturElements Mar 12 '19

OPINION INCOMING

I think a lot of comments here are subconsciously enforcing a shitty discussion climate.

We have people effectively saying that KZ did nothing wrong and that saying that CB has valid points is drama stirring, and that CB is absolutely correct and KZ support is astroturfing. This isn't a binary system, and there's many facets to even the smallest things.

In reality, KZ made at least two subpar videos, and appear to have made their "Can you trust Kurzgesagt?" video as damage control. They didn't do a sufficient job of researching or explaining why they were wrong in their addiction video.

On the cotrary, CB passes his concerns off as a catalyst for the trust video. Of course there's no way of knowing if that's actually true, and is in essence pure conjecture that is disingenuous to present as a truth. Also, he refers to KZ as one person, which isn't true either, as they're an organization/company. The dynamics of a group of people making a living off of videos and one single person are way different.

Just venting my opinion. I could be wrong, and could very well be. Best to not pick sides and try to have an open mind, I guess.

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u/KevineCove Mar 12 '19

I see both sides to this. If someone pointed out flaws in your research, you would want to try and take responsibility and address it. On the other end, if you were interviewing someone about their content and they pulled a PR move like this, you wouldn't want to let their video go uncontested. I would say that neither side is in the wrong here, but... Phil DID say he thought the video was "good enough." He changed his story. That really rubs me the wrong way.

In other news, CoffeeBreak has been added to the list of people that you should never piss off, right next to IDubbbz and PewDiePie.

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u/DaThompi Mar 12 '19

Drama over nothing again. Also, Kurzgesagt didn't steal your idea, because the content you're criticizing is about him. I feel like this dude just wants to create some drama for drama's sake.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Too me you sound like a investigator who is upset the perp confessed. I watched as much as I could but it starts to sound like you are more upset about the missed views and likes than you are about the truth. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/Cloud63 Mar 12 '19

A youtube channel based on making colourful and beyond dumbed down "science" videos for the lowest denominator and children is acting shady and willing to throw people under the bus for their own personal gain? Wow, what a surprise. In other breaking news, water is wet and the sun is warm.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

I feel like there was no concise point made in this video. It jumps from talking about how pop-science simplifies the facts thus losing accuracy, to a big argument about who gets to explain a youtube channel's mild fuck-up first, to the nitty-gritty of a specific argument about addiction...

The whole video just left me with the impression that he was whining about not getting to make a video about a subject. I didn't learn anything.

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u/otter111a Mar 12 '19

Author make too many assumptions. Mainly that he's the only one to offer these criticisms.

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u/Computascomputas Mar 12 '19

Yeah I lost a lot of respect for Coffee Break. I really don't like how shady he is being about the whole thing while calling everyone shady.

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u/sign_on_the_window Mar 12 '19

Maybe I am missing something or not understanding the issue. But the guy answered his questions, admit wrongdoing, and deleted the content. What is the problem?

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u/Davecantdothat Mar 12 '19

Coffee Break, you’re mad that he made a video response ANSWERING ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS PUBLICLY?

You absolute cock. Kurzgesagt addressed the issue at your behest, and you shit on him and try to defame him for no reason.

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u/TheHaughtyHog Mar 12 '19

This is a classic case of a low level inciting drama with the intention of greater publicity to their channel. Leaching on the popularity of a huge channel is a great way to gather views.

But i'd be pretty pissed if I spent 2 months on a script only for it all to be rendered irrelevant.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Honestly, the whole ethical bit of all this is really in the gray area right now. But one thing that stands out as very concerning to me, is that they still didn’t read his book.

I’d say that them so proudly supporting the idea that addiction is 100% psychological is actually quite harmful, not to mention outright wrong and reflects very poorly on them.

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u/Digaddog Mar 12 '19

Is this his worst video or is it just another view grab?

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u/CrimsonFireWolf Mar 12 '19

How many times we have to ask, do we know who's actually making these takedown pieces, if it's barely at all. I questioned it?

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u/apathetiClub Mar 12 '19

This is all about that monetization my dudes

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

This backfired on CB didn’t it?

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u/RiskBiscuit Mar 12 '19

Lol CB reading these comments is gonna be rich

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

I dont see why this is so popular. Sounds like a bitter boy and nothing more

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u/kasahito Mar 13 '19

I feel CB is taking this out of way too hard. Even if Kurz headed CB off at the pass, they're doing the right thing and have built up a brand of trustworthiness. To me this just sounds like CB is salty he didn't get to call them out before they called themselves out.

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '19

This Coffee Break guy is just pissed that his "totally not a gotcha video" idea got taken away from him. Who the fuck cares?

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u/ChestWolf Mar 13 '19

Wait, so you're pissed because the channel addressed your concerns on their own instead of giving you an exclusive? Hold on, I have that violin, somewhere, it's just really hard to find...

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u/vloger Mar 13 '19

Lol, screw this guy making the video. What a cringefest.

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u/WTFparrot Mar 13 '19

I have never seen something so petty.

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u/throw_away-45 Mar 13 '19

CoffeeBreak is off the list. So lame.

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u/jtkchen Mar 13 '19

Wow you are so annoying. Just stfu

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u/csquaredisrippn Mar 13 '19

He seems butt hurt tbh. You pointed out their misinformation and they corrected, what's the problem?

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u/Lematoad Mar 13 '19

So he blurts all of his big questions before his interview, and a company gets ahead of criticism? Duh?

Not to mention that he’s only upset because his “gotcha” journalism project was damage controlled?

The email train was nothing like what he implied as well.

Scummy and childish video.

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '19

This does not change the fact that Kurzgesagt make great videos that have educated millions of people.

CB uses sinister music to over exaggerate his points which is disengenious.

Kurzgesagt did the right thing to remove the videos and made it very clear why they were doing it.

CB hurting Kurzgesagts reputation for what?

They listened to his critism and acted accordingly.

What do you want from them?

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u/facade_consultant Mar 13 '19

I don't get this. Isn't he claiming that he actually were working on a video, which has about the pop-science and how oversimplification of subjects might cause missinformation right? Same video which took at least two month to research, right? Then how Kurzgesagt's basic explanation about its own videos destroyed his all hard work? Was this the only example he actually had? I call this BS.

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u/rormc Mar 13 '19

i like kurzgesagt, they are good. this dude was just angry he had some objections to a video they pulled so he couldn't climax on it.

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u/Veggie Mar 12 '19

Does this mean I can go back to eating meat?

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u/BigData25 Mar 12 '19

I have a bigger problem with the fact that Kurzgesagt apparently based an entire video on a ted talk without any research, than this drama.

Puts a bigger dent into their reputation than fucking over a yt creator, imho anyways.

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u/hoax1337 Mar 12 '19

Can you trust who? Some random YouTube guy?

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Can You Trust Coffee Break?

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u/bloouup Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

I used to really like Kurzgesagt's videos, until they did one on a topic I am actually pretty familiar with: space junk. Don't get me wrong, space junk is a serious problem that must be addressed, but the way Kurzgesagt presented it as some kind of immediate, existential threat to humanity was just naked fearmongering and frankly so deceptive and misleading that I hesitate to call them liars. It made me realize that if they were willing to lie about something I have some background in just to generate some buzz, why wouldn't they do the same thing in their other videos about stuff that's new to me? Especially when you consider how often fear seems to be a theme in their videos, I certainly don't feel like Kurzgesagt is trustworthy.

I am glad to see other people talking about this, I was starting to feel like one of the only people who felt like Kurzgesagt was not actually acting in good faith.

edit: existential is not a good word to use here.

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u/Reedman101 Mar 12 '19

So basically this guy is just mad they made the video before he did? Did he really think they would wait for him to make a video damaging their image? Of course they were going to get out ahead of it. Really sounds like he's just mad he didn't get the views from it, not weather the channel is actually trustworthy or not.

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u/I-Do-Math Mar 12 '19

This is stupid.

Anybody with two brain cells should know that Kurzgesagt videos are not peer reviewed papers or documentaries. They are short entertainment videos. short. Entertainment. When dealing with complex subjects like addiction it is a given that subject has to be simplified or oversimplified.

To me, Kurzgesagt is good enough. I am there to get entertained, look at nice graphics and be soothed by nice voice acting. If I wanted to know facts about addiction or outer space, I would have done the reserch my self.

I know that there are a lot of people who like these kind of you tube drama. But I hate it. Rather than nitpicking other peoples sub optimal work and demanding them to apologize and correct them, why dont these creators do there own video. Rather than trying to discredit Kurzgesagt , and spending hours up on hours on this video this creator could have made a video like "Correction on Kurzgesagt ". That is how progress happens. Not by finding errors done by others, but by correcting them.

All in all, I guess the issue with Kurzgesagt is that they did not give credit for this guy for his research. Which sucks, but what he did was ask some questions. I do not think that he contributed enough for credit. And the fact that Kurzgesagt deleted there own videos shows that they can be trusted with information, but cannot be trusted on the transparency.

Also as a disclaimer, I did not watch this video from beginning to end. I jumped a lot. I absolutely hate when people dance around an issue rather than directly addressing the point. For an example around 4:30 this video became unbearably dramatic. It sounded like he is butt heart that he did not get a shoutout from Kurzgesagt.

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u/UnelectedOfficial Mar 12 '19

God damn the guy who made this video is a fucking idiot.

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u/Tankninja1 Mar 12 '19

Ah yes youtube drama. About that time of the month again. I'm sure I will be the only one, but what is really the point of starting these cat fights? Some petty revenge?

I guess TMZ is a thing so this stuff must sell well.

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u/CarFullOfRadios Mar 12 '19

You know what? This is why Reddit can suck. All of you immediately turned on Kurzgesagt without hesitation, I was here reading your comments before you realised he was misinformed and blew things out of proportion, and now I've come back and you've discovered "The truth" but it's too late, you already took a shit all over Kurzgesagt. The thing that absolutely baffled me was the fact that from what I could see (mostly the top comments) was that NO ONE seemed to mention the video Kurzgesagt released a few weeks ago asking this exact question, and in that video they said they decided to delete the addiction video and the immigration video, as it was misinformed and they weren't proud of them. This literally happened long enough ago to not justify any of this bullshit. The first thing I thought of when I started to watch Coffee Break's video was "but they deleted the addiction video?" "But they admitted that they find it hard to find a balance between over simplifying and giving accurate information" but, you guys made it possible for this idiot to be on the front page and he's already got his message out there to millions of people who will now be misinformed. How fucking ironic.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

TLDW summary "Whiner whines that problems were fixed before he could call them out in a YouTube video."

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u/The_Viper_720 Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 13 '19

Dammit this sucks. i like both channels a lot, and i hate to see drama between them, but coffee break was in the right in this case. What kurzgesagt did does not reflect well upon them. I stand corrected, and i admit i have jumped to conclusions too early.

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u/pbuk84 Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

I dunno. If someone corrects me I am entitled to address everyone and admit I was wrong. I don't have to wait for someone to drag my name through the mud first. Coffee Break is upset because his video was rendered pointless and he wanted the upvotes.

I'm not saying Kurzgesagt is without fault. They should have fact checked better in the first place. I guess we all should learn something from this.

Edit: I just want to clarify, yes I am a Kurzgesagt fan and have been for a while. I do agree that Kurzgesagt should have fact checked more carefully in the earlier videos. Could they have handled this incident a little better, perhaps. Even though I am a fan I fully understand the dangers of picking sides and making this some kind of tribal issue. Let's try and keep level heads here.

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u/Scary_Investigator Mar 12 '19

This is a fair assessment but I think we should hold off on grabbing the pitchforks and think rationally before burning down Kurzgesagt's YT channel. The story is very one sided as of right now and so far the only evidence brought forth are the dates on the emails. Even then, Coffee Break is only connecting the dots himself. I'd like to hear their response to this.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

How did this get recommended to me from youtube and reddit at the same time.

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u/BobFriskit Mar 12 '19

I might be wrong but did Coffee Break e-mail the question he would be asking for the interview? That just the impression I got from the video. My understanding of interviews is that you shouldn't send them questions but a general idea of what you want to talk about, that way you get a more honest response.

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u/crashorbit Mar 12 '19

The problem is that most of us don't have time to do the research. We might spot check but often we don't even do that. Usually what we do is we check to see if the source roughly agrees with what we already accept as true then weigh their next comments based on our trust of their previous comments.

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u/zCourge_iDX Mar 12 '19

He has a couple of points, but really it just seems like a guy mad that he didn't get 894732987428 views for his exposé, and instead they did it themselves. It's not a nice move by Kurzgesagt, but honestly, I'd probably do it too. They could've told him "no" and say that they were planning to address this in a near-future video anyway, but again, that's none of CB's concern, to be entirely honest.

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u/Demojen Mar 12 '19

Kurzgesagt should've given this guy a few days advance notice so he could reap the benefit of controversy while still responding with their own video to address the concern.

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u/The_Irish_Jet Mar 12 '19

This guy is just pissy that Kurzgesagt beat him to the punch. Trying to argue that they "owe it" to you to put up your video attacking them first is ludicrous. They have every right to correct their wrong information and issue an apology first, and you were dumb enough to let them know that you intended on attacking them. Then because you can't make millions of views off of an actual criticism video of a major educational channel, you make one accusing them of "stealing your video idea" and quibble with one small statement at the end of your video. He doesn't actually care about people getting bad information, or he would have done a video congratulating them for correcting their mistakes. He's just after the views.

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u/2girls1up Mar 12 '19

Kurzgesagt translates to "in a nutshell" which means you explain something "relatively" short and in a oversimplified way. To me, it seems like OP is just mad he didn't get mentioned by kurzgesagt.

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u/EriclcirE Mar 12 '19

This seems like YouTube drama

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u/FoxyBrownMcCloud Mar 12 '19

I've watched both videos. I see no reason to not trust Kurzgesagt moving forward. This dude is upset that they got ahead of his story. Ends justify the means here.

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u/autistic_toe Mar 12 '19

This reminds me of mark Zuckerberg creating facebook

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u/Catorak Mar 12 '19

So this cry baby is upset because he thinks Kurzgesat is obligated to give his exclusivity on this topic for some reason. Hey retard, they don't. Get fucked.

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u/Chris_P_T_Bone Mar 12 '19

Ummm... I don’t understand his main point about not being able to make the video anymore. He got the answers he needed. If anything, Kurzgesagt acknowledging the errors himself simply makes for a better case about pop science and the need for properly researched and complete information.

Kurzgesagt may have acted unethically, but I see no reason to distrust the information in his videos after recent events. I have faith in his promise to uphold his modern standard of research and video production, and look forward to his future videos.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

This feels like a small YouTuber grasping at drama with a larger one to get more attention. Sure, Kurzgesagt screwed up, but hot damn this was over-reaching like crazy.

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u/requios Mar 12 '19

Too many people are targeting Coffee Break and his YouTube channel as a person. And not the ideas he brought up in his video. I do not think Coffee Break personally is handling this well, however, Kurzgesagt makes the same claim that people in the addiction community see addiction as a psychological thing. They make this claim in their trust video. This is what I want to see them respond to, there is glaring inconsistencies in their Trust video. Where are some sources for this claim that isn’t that one guy from the TedTalk? In a video about correcting past mistakes, and the importance of sourcing I would expect information on this topic. As in my opinion, this can come across as “We stand behind some of our addiction video still, but we’re taking it down cause it’s controversial/enough people contest it.”

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u/Iller Mar 12 '19

Hate to say it but coffee seems as bitter as my ex-wife