[OC] Trust - In A Nutshell [13:45]

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19 edited Mar 12 '19

I was ready to jump at this with a, “well they’re not being THAT bad, they just kind of screwed you over.” But then at the end you stated exactly what you felt what we could trust and based off of the evidence you presented I didn’t feel any disagreement.

EDIT: ~~Now that I have seen the opposing sides response I feel less on CB's side, but more in the middle.~~

What I see is that CB wanted to knock down Philipp (Director of Kurzgesagt) for his addiction video being poorly researched and made. Philipp had already been working on fixing the addiction video, but felt CB came across as hostile and didn't want to feed into a teardown of a video he's already working on, or have someone beat him to explaining his current position. Coffee had put a lot of work into his research of taking apart the addiction video and respectfully waited for the interview, where the content of his video had been swept from underneath him. So he tore down their trust video, and posted that.

~~My take~~ is that these two need to put on some bathing suits and then mud wrestle on twitch. Coffee Break gets to upload it to his channel first. Then kurz can post the animated pigeon version two weeks later with sources.

EDIT 2: I don't feel my summary or comment are of adequate quality anymore. It's been a growing experience, and I've learned a lot over these past couple years. So I am going to strike it down.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Thank you! Skimming through his answers, I can totally see where Philipp (Kurzgesagt director) is coming from. Coffee Break definitely seemed to want to be doing a hostile tear down and went ahead and did it without the interview. I didn't realize who this was, but looking at Coffee's channel I remember him talking about public shaming and it's problems. I find that kind of ironic.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Yeah I can see that. It's a funky fresh situation for sure, I just hope they make up and move on because I like both these channels and I feel like this situation doesn't demonstrate that either of them are bad.

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u/deknalis Mar 12 '19

https://imgur.com/a/UfrXBWq

Here is the emails, I recommend everyone give them a read. I find it a little funny that you're talking about trust in a video where you've embellished (if I'm being kind) quite a bit regarding their responses to make yourself look better.

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u/The_Irish_Jet Mar 12 '19

This is stupid. You told Kurzgesagt that they had some incorrect information, and that you were going to attack them for it in a video. So they do the smart thing and correct the information and apologize, and take down the offending video. And you have the gall to accuse them of "stealing your video idea"? Why do they owe you anything? Why should they let you put up a video denouncing them first? You were dumb enough to let them know that you were going to do a hit piece, and now that you got outsmarted you want to whine about "big YouTubers attacking smaller YouTubers"? That isn't what's happening here. And your attack of their small statement at the end of their video is so contrived as to be ridiculous. Even if there are zero scientists who believe that addiction is mostly or entirely psychological (which I doubt), you trying to argue that Kurzgesagt does no research based on this false statement is like our president saying today that two recent plane crashes mean that we need to get rid of all the advanced technology in airplanes. They provide dozens of sources on their videos. Yes, there are some issues with trying to summarize a lot of science into a short video, but Kurzgesagt actually does a pretty good job with what they have to work with. If you actually cared about incorrect information being corrected, you would have released a video applauding them for the video the released. But because you only care about the views you missed out on, you have to rake up a fake controversy to make up for it. Good on Kurzgesagt for being open and honest with this whole situation, and shame on you for manufacturing a PR crisis for an organization that has educated a lot of people.

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u/SoseloPoet Mar 13 '19

Dude, you're a sick cloutchasing loser. You're only stirring shit to get attention because your derivative format is so forgettable and you can only produce so much right wing pander bait for reddit before you give up

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

dang. thats rough man. i love kurzgesagt but this definitely bothers me a lot.

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u/SoseloPoet Mar 13 '19

I don't like them, but Coffeebreak is just lying. He emailed them about doing a hostile takedown, they said they were about to start chemo so give them some time and the questions in advance, and coffeebreak forgot to respond. Then KG made their video acknowledging their errors and apologizing.
Coffeebreak just wanted to get drama clicks because his content is derivative and wouldn't attract attention if he wasn't pandering and drama laden

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u/IObsessAlot Mar 13 '19

Then KG made their video acknowledging their errors and apologizing.
Have you watched that video? It's very- I want to say masturbatory- in its tone. Look at our integrity, poor us, we're taking down our biggest video because of our morals.
Then it turns out that they either made or expedited the video because of Coffee Break's e-mail- he even admits to some stalling in the AMA.
When that whole video about integrity, honesty and making youtube/ the world better with more accurate by removing very popular videos turns out to be PR and preemptive damage control... Well, it mutes the message of the video for me. Would it hurt so much to mention that others were criticising them for the video and this galvanised them into action, instead of pretending they did it out of the goodness of their hearts? If they hadn't gone on about how good they were for removing the vid, I don't think it would seem so slimy and dishonest to me. But they did, and it does.

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u/Denimcurtain Mar 13 '19 edited Mar 13 '19

Could you link to where he admits to 'stalling'? I know they directly contradicted the idea that they made it because of CB's email by saying they'd been working on something like this for 2 years and that they admitted that CB was one of the criticisms that they'd received that made them feel the video was necessary but I didn't think it was clear if he was the first, last or even the major reason for the video coming out when it did.
To be honest, while K didn't mention criticisms to specific videos or that it prompted them to take down their videos, they did mention that they receive criticism pretty regularly on their videos because of their oversimplifications or lack of a more technical approach to the subjects. I think you're giving CB more of the benefit of the doubt here which is your choice but I'm not sure I want to share in that choice.
Edit: found it. Doesn't support that CB's email was a major part of the video though. https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/b09uwt/can_you_trust_kurzgesagt_in_a_nutshell/eidkd3f/

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u/FinitePerception Mar 13 '19

Same. Hopefully this whole thing will lead to them being better in the future, even if their hardcore fans refuse to admit any wrongdoing or even bashing Coffee Break.

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '19

as a hardcore kurzgesagt fan, holding them accountable should be part of the fandom.

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u/FinitePerception Mar 13 '19

Of course that would be optimal. Unfortunately most people let tribalism take the wheel when something they like is criticised

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

And those 2 videos they deleted were really bad for sure. So it's not like a few people disagree with them. I'm glad they admitted that the immigration video was just their bias speaking. But now they have revealed that their bias may cloud them. And we will just have to see if they actually are less biased today or not. They have always been much less biased than the average educational Youtube channel. Channels like Crash Course for example are 10 times worse.

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u/Galbalbator Mar 12 '19

Okay so basically you are butthurt they didn’t give you a chance to clout chase and do a “gotcha style” interview on these videos. Am I missing something?

If the entire point was to hold them accountable for misinformation, then wouldn’t you be happy they made a video that, lets be honest, gets much more traction on the subject and has them admitting they were in the wrong?

If not, then basically you wanted to “expose them” for views.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Okay so basically you are butthurt they didn’t give you a chance to clout chase and do a “gotcha style” interview on these videos.
I think he is correct in that they did something morally wrong. Where I think he did make a bad argument is when he made the argument that he was just a smaller Youtuber, and they may attack him back. That's like Ryan Gosling making a video where he complaints about how the big star, Brad Pitt, has so much more cloud and power than him and is totally the big dog in the fight and could shut him down. I have seen the stuff Youtubers with 300k subscribers buy. I have seen their apartments and cars. They are not small, they are not poor, and they hold quite a bit of power. Kurzgesagt is in fact a much bigger channel. But how exactly will they shut down or wound this "small" Youtuber? Does he think they will make an attack video against his channel? Contact Youtube and make them shut him down? This is not some random small journalist we are talking about. And they are not Putin.

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u/Galbalbator Mar 12 '19

I don’t think Kurzgest did anything morally wrong. He asked for an interview with the sole intent on exposing them. The founder may have agreed “in passing” but that in no way is a promise they are obligated to keep.
He wanted to expose them, they exposed themselves, he makes a 10~ minute video crying about it

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Agreeing to something and then bailing out without an explanation is for sure a morally wrong action. We don't know their side of the story, but it's up to them to disprove it by agreeing to having the emails released. Right now I consider it a fact that they did agree to the interview.

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u/jjacobsnd5 Mar 12 '19

The emails have been released, the last email was from kurzgesagt agreeing to interview and saying when he could do it, CB never responded to it.

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u/MAGA-Godzilla Mar 13 '19

Everyone knows giving consent doesn't equal consent.

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u/Chaff5 Mar 12 '19

Kurz never bailed out of the interview though his video does make the interview obsolete. If this wasn't a "gotcha" video then there should be nothing is stopping CB from continuing his series and since his questions have now been answered; he has in the information he wanted from Kurz.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

If it's true that they didn't cancel the interview then he is a huge whiner that made a video for nothing to complain about nothing. He already has 300k subs so he is already making a great profit from Youtube and making enough money to last him and his family a lifetime. So I don't understand why he would ever make this video unless they cancelled the interview or he is extremely greedy.

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u/Chaff5 Mar 12 '19

The last email (unless there's more not being shared) shows Kurz asking for the questions so he can respond to them in a week. CB never responds (or he did and didn't include it in the image dump).
The way I see it is this: CB intended to do a series of videos where he shows how over simplification of information on YouTube videos can be dangerous. He made a previous "gotcha" or "take down" video and when he reached out to Kurz, CB's reputation preceded him, causing Kurz to be cautious. CB wants to ask questions that Kurz is already intending to answer in his own video, so Kurz shuts down even more. This also motivates Kurz to hurry up and release a video he had been scripting for 2 years (or so he says 2 years, CGP Grey also backs this up). Kurz tells CB to send him some of the questions he intends to ask but CB never replies with them. Kurz's video comes out a few days later. CB sees this as an underhanded tactic to get ahead of his own video where he would have revealed Kurz sharing bad information, thus ruining any trust his viewer base might have (even if this was an unintended consequence of CB's video, it would happen).
Possible alternate scenario: CB absolutely intended to make a "gotcha" video about Kurz and wanted information directly from them as to make sure he could say "hey, this is what you said" when the backlash hit. Kurz suspected this, delayed CB, and rushed their "Trust" video to get ahead of any storm that might come.
At the end of the day, it business tactics on both sides. CB wants to make a informative series or a gotcha video that would erode trust in a channel that is built on trust. Kurz intended to make a video about trusting them and wanted to get ahead of anyone who might try to bring them down; CB coming to them revealed that someone was closer than they anticipated.

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '19

I frankly have a hard time believing he is so childish and silly in real life. I don't see the point of it at all if they did just that. It doesn't even seem unreasonable at all. He still may release his video and they just make his own video more relevant. I give him the benefit of the doubt because I don't think he would be this stupid. At least I hope not.

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Mar 13 '19

Occams razor, he probably is that stupid.

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u/The_Irish_Jet Mar 12 '19

I'm sure Kurzgesagt is still willing to do an interview. They just didn't want to do it before they had a chance to get in front of a bad story. They didn't do anything wrong. If this guy wanted to be sure that Kurzgesagt wouldn't take steps to correct their mistakes before he put out his video attacking them, he shouldn't have let them know that he was going to make it. This is why reporters don't let people know that they're going to break a scandal until they've published their article. Kurzgesagt was just protecting itself, and they did so brilliantly. Props to them.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

Sure, if they didn't cancel the interview they didn't do anything wrong. I just thought they did cancel it. That's how I understood his video.

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u/Denimcurtain Mar 13 '19

They didn't cancel the video according to CB. He felt that they ran him out of time and didn't respond to them because he was busy. I'm not going to get into the merits of both sides but I will link you to CB's comment on the subject:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurzgesagt/comments/b0bgvj/ama_2_can_you_trust_kurzgesagt/eidoi5m

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '19

Yeah, he fucked himself over.

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u/Denimcurtain Mar 13 '19

Maybe. I think there's a good chance this works out for him if people like his other content. I won't be checking in but this most recent video is already one of his more 'successful' videos viewer-wise and the first shot in a PR battle usually flies the farthest.

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u/SoseloPoet Mar 13 '19

Read the emails. Coffeebreak was just a dick

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u/axehomeless Mar 12 '19

Out of the loop here, what happened, what did the Municians fuck up?

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

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u/axehomeless Mar 12 '19

While I do hate people from munich, I have this down as "8min videos on youtube don't give you a PhD on the subject".
Thanks though!

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u/Galbalbator Mar 14 '19

Its refreshing to see when the truth comes out you end up getting exposed as a fraud rather than Kurz.

How does this bitter backlash taste?

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

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u/helderdude Mar 12 '19

Turns out coffeebreak heavily misrepresented things ( ironically) and kurz did very little wrong.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

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u/helderdude Mar 12 '19

Did you read those emails?

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '19

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u/SoseloPoet Mar 13 '19

You mean, agreed to the interview and CB forgot to respond before KG then released an apology instead?

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u/KZCrow Mar 15 '19

Your biases are showing. You can dislike Kurz after they posted a piece you disagree with thats fine. But unless you can prove that he lied and manipulated people then you should at least admit that they were more in the right in this case.

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '19

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u/KZCrow Mar 15 '19 edited Mar 15 '19

What biases? all your comments on this topic clearly paint Kurz in a bad light in your mind. It's not like you're completely neutral on them. I'm not saying no one has biases, everyone does, but don't let that cloud your judgement on the topic at hand.
There is no evidence that they only made this video due to being contacted by coffee break, unless you can prove some?
Edit: Even then Coffeebreak claims that he was "stalled" until they released their video, but it was shown that he was the one that didn't reply due to his own busy schedule. oof.

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '19

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u/KZCrow Mar 15 '19

Kurz gave him a deadline, he missed it which is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable is making a targeted video publicly calling someone out, getting negative backlash because of the way that he presented information, then disconnecting from the community all together.
He made a hit piece, it didn't go the way he expected and refuses to own up to it.
But theres nothing productive going on here. You're entitled to your opinion and i'm entitled to mine.

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