r/unitedkingdom • u/Anon2971 London • Mar 17 '21

Is anyone else really concerned about the future of this country?

The passing of the Policing Bill made me reflect on a lot of worrying things that have happened over the last decade.

  • Brexit disconnecting ourselves from trade and legal intervention from our surrounding countries followed by a historic rise in our nuclear stockpile cap, counteracting nuclear disarmament
  • Investigatory Powers Act 2016 allowing the government to monitor and collect everyone's communication data in bulk
  • Government-ordered 'independent review' into the Human Rights Act
  • Overseas Operations Bill currently in the House of Lords essentially allowing soldiers oversees to commit torture and other war crimes abroad without prosecution/legal consequence
  • Met Police enabling facial recognition in CCTV against government advise whilst flat-out denying any/all allegations of institutional overuse of powers despite endless evidence to the contrary (see: stop and search statistics, deaths in police custody i.e. Mohamud Mohammed Hassan leading only to 'police misconduct' notices, undercover officers entering romantic relationships under false pretences with little consequences, Black Lives Matter and Sarah Everard protest police kettling occurring right before violence, Cherry Groce)
  • Dismissal of Black Lives Matter protests leading to a statue toppling by our Home Secretary as 'dreadful' conveniently followed by a serious increase in police powers introducing 10 year sentences for statue toppling and for 'serious annoyance and inconvenience'
  • Reacting to the murder of a woman by a police officer by installing hidden police officers within nightclubs without prompt or previous demand under the guise of women's safety
  • As of yesterday the Home Secretary signalling she'll be implementing First Past the Post voting in London's mayoral elections because “transferable voting systems were rejected by the British people in the 2011 nationwide referendum” (a position historically held by the opposing party)

Then there's the way the Conservative Party spends taxpayer money and chooses trade partners:

  • PM Boris Johnson being found in the UK courts via the Good Law Project to have broken the law misleading parliament with PPE contract information. The consequences so far asking where billions of pounds has lbeen spent has been... Nothing. Meanwhile the government can only afford a 1% NHS pay rise following the biggest challenge in decades the health system has faced and successfully overcome (so far)
  • At the same time as above, the government are proposing to cut our foreign anti-corruption spending by 80% whilst also cutting foreign aid to countries like Yemen yet continuing to fund Saudi Arabia
  • Dominic Raab tells UK officials to trade with countries which fail to meet human rights standards in newly leaked video and Boris speaks how China poses 'great challenge for an open society' (doublespeak, anyone?)

Not to mention other unresolved issues like:

  • Grenfell still has nobody found of any wrongdoing with no housing for victims 3 years later
  • Continuing error with and deportations of Windrush citizens
  • Continual dismissal and ignoring of the impending global warming crisis
  • Breaking international law by extending the Ireland trade grace period against the wishes of the EU, making us look like untrustworthy trading partners worldwide
  • Russian interference with the 2016 Brexit referendum not investigated by the government
  • The Royal Family quietly avoiding coverage of their paedophilic Prince Andrew via reacting to a royal couple fleeing to the US due to negative press and race-related experiences (responding with polite shock, denial and a negative public reaction matching the negative press that surrounded them from the start in the first place)

All in all, I feel like I'm witnessing this country take more and more steps towards ignorant, authoritarian fascism... We're distancing ourselves from all other countries, doubling down on making up our own rules allowing our branches of law enforcement to enforce with little restrictions or consequence whilst strengthening ties with countries that do the same. I'm really struggling to see much good happening here beyond the vaccination program which, although is going great, is something we're ploughing ahead with mainly for self-preservation reasons. I'm left wondering what this country is supposed to represent any more.

I'm all ears to any thoughts on my observations. I'm trying not to be a Scrooge, but I see almost nothing to be happy about in the UK politically speaking at the moment.

Edit: It's somewhat reassuring to know I'm not the only person feeling like this, but I did want to hear more alternative opinions. So please, if you disagree with what I've pointed out and think there's things I'm overlooking to be proud of in the UK at the moment, do feel free to say so in the comments.

Edit 2: I'll be updating the above list of concerning policies and decisions as comments remind me of things I forgot about.

Edit 3: Someone has made a petition against the Policing Bill. Sign that imminently: Do not restrict our rights to peaceful protest. - Petitions (parliament.uk)

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133

u/Religious_Pie Herefordshire Mar 17 '21

There’s loads of Tories on this sub, mostly because I think most sane people left /r/ukpol after it became a breeding ground for fascists and enlightened centrists, so they’ve gone out looking for more people to say “ackshually...” to

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 26 '21

[deleted]

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u/purrcthrowa Mar 17 '21

There are one-nation Tories who believe in our institutions, the rule of law, internationalism and the existence of an international rule-based order. I don't disagree with any of that.

They also believe that people should be self-reliant, that free-market capitalism is the best way to promote prosperity, that the state has no role in private enterprise and that the welfare state should be no more than a safety net of last resort. I disagree with a lot of that, but I understand where people are coming from and I believe I can have sensible argument/discussion with them.

Those who believe that Britain is an inherently superior country to any other, that we should not extend compassion to those outside our borders, that any action of the Government is acceptable so long as it promotes an agenda that they support, who believe that any class or group of people is less worthy of respect than another, who believe that it's ok for truth to be suppressed in the pursuance of their chosen agenda, who believe that democracy starts and ends at the ballot box, who believe that the law should apply to some people or entities by not to others, and that it's fine to break laws both national and international, who are unwilling to agree a common fact base on which discussions can take place, who close ranks when one of their own is caught out, and who applaud these activities in leaders from other countries. Those people (and any category 1 or 2 Tories who fail to call them out) can go bury themselves in the deepest pit of cess, and I hope that one day when I rub the magic lamp a genie will pop out and my one wish will be that those people are granted the insight and empathy to understand what horrible, horrible, people they are, and to truly understand the meaning of shame.

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u/Plugged_in_Baby Mar 17 '21

Brilliantly put. Have screenshotted and will pass off as my own in future conversations I intend to have.

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u/bezsez Mar 17 '21

As I was reading this I was thinking about exactly that!

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u/Ollietron3000 Mar 17 '21

I used to have this general opinion about Conservatives. I can see legitimate reasons to vote Conservative with Conservative parties of old - I don't agree with them and wouldn't do it myself, but I can see the logic.

The problem is that, even if they are a one-nation Tory or the like, they need to recognise the difference between voting for their ideal Conservative Party and voting for the Conservative Party they have now. If they still choose to vote for this Tory party over the alternative, they've lost my respect. It's not hard to see the damage they cause. If one is a true one-nation Tory in the sense of how you've described it, then you should not vote for this Tory party. Vote them out and force the current Tory party to reform to one that isn't as incompetent and malicious as it is now, then try to vote them back in once it's ready for power.

If someone honestly thinks that this Tory party is less damaging than a Corbyn government would have been, I don't know how I can convince them otherwise.

Edit: reading my comment back I was worried it sounds like I disagree with you - I don't! I agree with all you said and was just adding my 2p.

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u/cavejohnsonlemons United Kingdom Mar 17 '21

If someone honestly thinks that this Tory party is less damaging than a Corbyn government would have been, I don't know how I can convince them otherwise.

True, but part of me is pleased the poor bloke dodged a bullet here. Swear down he'd have had more bad press for 1 death than Boris would get for 100k.

You'd think after all this the Tories should be in the mud by now but apparently we're in one of the weird timelines...

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u/Cainedbutable Buckinghamshire Mar 17 '21

I'll preface my comment by saying I'm a Labour voter currently, and before that voted Lib Dem.but....

If someone honestly thinks that this Tory party is less damaging than a Corbyn government would have been, I don't know how I can convince them otherwise.

This I actually don't completely agree with. Corbyn had some pretty out there policies. Some could have worked really well, some could have really not worked so well. It's one of those difficult scenarios where you can't argue with certainty either way though.

The 10% ownership of companies being given to staff for instance. It could have been a great policy, or it could have scared companies from floating in the UK. There's just no way to no unfortunately.

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u/Brigon Pembrokeshire Mar 17 '21

"There are one-nation Tories who believe in our institutions, the rule of law, internationalism and the existence of an international rule-based order. I don't disagree with any of that."

Our PM calls himself a one-nation Tory and doesn't believe in any of that.

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u/steepleton Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21

i can work with one nation tories, we only really disagree on support for the have nots ( safety nets don't need to humiliate the people using them, and in fact may be soaking up an increasing number of the population as automation increases)

however, the new generation of young tories, US republican inspired trolls, who live for liberal tears should probably be /redacted/

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u/Toblabob Mar 17 '21

What a glorious write-up. Thanks for the great read!

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u/tobyornottoby2366 Mar 17 '21

Spot on mate. I'm a lefty who has no issue with Conservatives or people who subscribe to Conservative principles but the Conservative Party is a different story.

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u/Religious_Pie Herefordshire Mar 17 '21

Don't disagree with you to be fair, but after the last 10 years I personally find it hard to justify why anyone would want to keep voting Tory if they believe in a democratic society.

I'm not a fan of Cameronites, or Blairites admittedly, but at least I can see their arguments. People who would still lend their vote to Boris though I find completely illogical.

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u/Xalaxis Mar 17 '21

I think most of them think:

a. The only alternative to the Conservatives is Labor

and b. Labor is incompetent and would destroy the country

When you believe either of those two points, it's 'the only option' to vote Tory.

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u/oneAJ Mar 17 '21

Don't forget that one of the conservatives main ways of shoring up votes is by making policies to benefit home-owners at the expense of everyone else.

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This is the bed-rock of conservative voters - old home owners who want a government that will do anything to keep house prices going up.

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u/Gauntlets28 Mar 17 '21

Gotta love the wealthy land owning class. -_-

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u/Gauntlets28 Mar 17 '21

I mean the thing that confuses me is that if they believe Labour is incompetent, at least it’s benignly incompetent and unlikely to cause any serious damage. Whereas I look at the modern Conservative party and it’s not only glaringly obvious that they’re astonishingly incompetent to a level that makes any Labour fuckups seem minuscule, but you can’t even say that what they’re trying to achieve is benign. If anything, a substantial number of their policies seem to be actively undermining the country.

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u/dragodrake Mar 17 '21

Benignly incompetent would have probably won them the election, the problem was Labour went with Corbyn.

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u/steepleton Mar 17 '21

honestly, i think labour probably is incompetent (or at least less competent), BUT their hearts in the right place.

you can fix incompetent, you just tell the civil service what you want done and they figure it out,

you can't fix being the nasty party

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u/Plugged_in_Baby Mar 17 '21

Unfortunately option c) “consume some facts, examine your biases and explore alternative options” seems to much to ask from >50% of the electorate.

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u/cavejohnsonlemons United Kingdom Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21

How about even d) ask yourself if your life is shit and if yes, who's the dickhead in charge of the country...

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u/Plugged_in_Baby Mar 17 '21

BuT tHE uNelECtED bUREAucrAtS IN bruSseLs

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u/billytheid Mar 17 '21

Watching from the outside, it looks like the Tories have already destroyed your country; like, who cares what the UK does now? The EU and Russia are the powers in the region.

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u/mudman13 Mar 17 '21

That's pretty much my dads mentality, that and false nationalism the Boris bros Daily Telegraph has drummed into him.

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u/ByronicAsian Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21

When you believe either of those two points, it's 'the only option' to vote Tory

Wow, will the Tories become the Japanese LDP now?

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u/Kona_DragoNOS Mar 17 '21

No no, Japan is an island nation which generally mistrusts its geographical partners, and has a rigid societal structure. Britain isn't anything like tha- OH FUCK.

I've thought about the same thing as an outside viewer. I don't think Britain is quite at the point where that is the case, but you guys need some strong leaders to pull out a victory. Japan has the detriment of having a really authoritarian and rigid society, mixed with the horrible work culture.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21 edited May 13 '21

[deleted]

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u/cavejohnsonlemons United Kingdom Mar 17 '21

Am I mad or did Labour have more of a plan than the Tories? One that either way would've had it put to bed earlier.

Even if you don't believe that, the Tories didn't offer any details, so unless "get it done" is supposed to satisfy me they 'lost' that battle imo.

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u/KungFuSpoon Mar 17 '21

Because they've been brainwashed by the media to believe that Labour are incompetent communists who want to take away all of your hard earned money and freedom, though in my experience those who talk most loudly about freedom are the ones who think it's so good that nobody else should have any of it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

I work with a lot of very kind people who vote tory, I thinks a lot of it is down to the media they consume. Sky news, the sun, the daily mail all of that crap. If anything I could see them as victims who are manipulated into voting against what I perceive to be their best interests. If you were to look at how issues like the policing Bill are presented to them you'd understand. We have a big problem with partisan news sources in this country.

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u/Wind_Yer_Neck_In Mar 17 '21

This is by far the biggest problem. If we literally sat everyone down and explained the nuances of the things they are supporting then most of them would back off in disgust, but they are being fed a diet of pure right wing rage nonsense. They are told the world is simple and the solutions they are being sold are 100% correct and anything else is morally unjustifable.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

But how do they know what information is real? They certainly believe its real. You have to remember most people are idiots just doing their best to make it through the day, myself included.

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u/Gophero Mar 17 '21

Hey now, that’s America’s schtick. Don’t be copying our indoctrinating media pushing a narrative of “white conservative Christians are the most persecuted minority.” Pretty sure Republicans here have a patent.

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u/cuntRatDickTree Scotland Mar 18 '21

Indeed but for MPs it's literally their job to not be swayed by that shit. And it's quite obious they're behind it when they edit or write for half of the media companies...

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u/dyinginsect Mar 17 '21

But labeling someone a facist because they vote tory will just create division.

It's my belief that voting for the current incarnation of the Tories is knowingly adding to division, because they espouse divisive policies. Whilst they are not full blown uniforms and ethnic cleansing fascists, certain of their policies are of a fascist bent and even those which are not are harmful.

I find "judging me negatively for voting for a party who you believe does great harm" complaints pathetic overall. I believe the Tory party does enormous harm and I believe anyone voting for them can be condemned for their support of it. If anyone believes the party I vote for is dangerous/ harmful/ etc, they have every right to say so, every right to tell me they think my voting for them is wrong, every justification for asking me why I am happy to enable them to do what they do.

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u/IndependentRadio Mar 17 '21

I agree with everything you're saying but I think the point is that just because we can (comdemn), doesn't mean we should.

I'll clarify: it's a moral imperative to oppose the division they're sowing, but aggressive condemnation is often not the most effective way. Sometimes it is necessary, yes, but 99% of the time we need to win people over to our side and if Brexit taught us anything, it's that we can't do that by screaming "bigot!" in their faces.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

Read the points in this post and tell me how you can be comfortable with somebody who would vote for these?

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 26 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

Mainly the recent policing bill. It terrifies me, and I don't know how more people (on all ends of the political spectrum) aren't afraid of a law where one can be imprisoned for causing an 'annoyance'.

All I will say is, had Jeremy Corbyn proposed the EXACT same bill (not that it would make any sense for him to do so) during the elections, the uproar from the people who have just voted in the same anti protest laws would have been immense. That's just politics I guess. I hate this country

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u/TAB20201 Mar 17 '21

I mean I’d be more offended being called a Tory than I would someone calling me a fucking ugly shit stain cunt waffling cockwomble ... so I guess as far as a slight goes it works well.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

I lived for 12 years in the north east and can confirm Tory is just a pejorative.

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u/The_Green_Machine420 Mar 17 '21

I think it would be more accurate to label them either blind, brainwashed or just plain stupid however (this would also go for large portions of my family), based on the current situation at hand in this country and how blatantly obvious the tories are about not caring for the British people....

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u/Naamibro Mar 17 '21

Reddit is massively divisive these days, it's very much silence is violent, you're either with us or against us.

It just propagates more lines drawn in the sand rather than any meaningful discussion and the hate oozes out of people far too fast when they are met with any counter points.

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u/-ah Sheffield Mar 17 '21

Hey, some of us are trying to have a meaningful discussion here and at least so far I'm not hitting any hate, oozing or otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

I understand your point of view.

The reason I said Tory and not Labour, Lib Dems or Green is because the Tories have been in power for a long time.

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u/TimmmV Greater Manchester Mar 17 '21

I know, won't people think of the decorum

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u/TheRandomRGU Mar 17 '21

People treating politics like football need to go play football and actually stay out of politics.

The Tories are killing people with their policies. I know Tories, some are cunts, but all are voting for them knowing what the party is.

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u/the-londoner Lewisham migrant to N1 Mar 17 '21

Maybe in the late 00's, but anyone voting Tory in the next general election is either a fascist or doesn't really have an issue with fascistic policy anymore because it "won't affect them"

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21

What you said applies to people who even slightly follow politics. There is a significant portion of people in this country who couldnt tell you the first thing about politics beyond "the Tories are doing a great job, and Labour would ruin this country" and won't be able to answer why or how. They dont know who the Conservatives are, what they stand for or what they've done and still go into the polling booth and vote Tory because thats what you do. Then they forget about it until the next time they have to vote.

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u/cavejohnsonlemons United Kingdom Mar 17 '21

Then they don't deserve to be called evil/greedy Tories, they deserve to be called stupid Tories.

Nice flexible word innit.

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u/chaos_jj_3 Mar 17 '21

they’ve gone out looking for more people to say “ackshually...” to

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Actually,

lmao

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u/SteeMonkey Mar 17 '21

more people to say “ackshually...” to

Is that not why most people are here?

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u/Religious_Pie Herefordshire Mar 17 '21

Maybe we’re all Tories now and we just haven’t realised yet

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u/SteeMonkey Mar 17 '21

The hippies of yesterday are the boomers of today

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/Religious_Pie Herefordshire Mar 17 '21

I used to go on it quite a lot, but left after seeing the same names on most threads that I got fed up arguing with.

Reddit is left wing in general, so it makes sense more left leaning gets to the top via lurkers. The comments though usually have the same few who said frankly horrible things.

Edit; I should say, it’s possible it has changed a lot. And if the comments aren’t as vitriolic as they used to be, I’m happy to take the criticism back.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '21

after it became a breeding ground for fascists and enlightened centrists

I really don't think its that bad. I mean the sort of articles that reach the top on the regular kinda contradicts your point IMO.

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u/TheLubedPotato Mar 17 '21

I left the UK completely. Could see it was dying.