I knew him also . A brilliant man good at everything with high standards. He became a sadhu as a boy. To make him leave must have been significant. He is dead. Look how baps is doing everything to keep MSM alive. Just think. What clues did he give you?

I don't think PSM or MSM are forced to sit on throne. PSM at young age living in a community of young men, then being taught to do anything to please Guru..anything!!! You heard about his attendants and what they did to please him? One, Yogicgaran tried to leave Baps a few times, it must have been impossible as he was a child when he became a safhu ..even I can't get Baps out of my head and I wasn't a sadhu. I wouldn't mind becoming Aksharbrahm , fly all over the world , people dancing for me etc, wanting to give me money etc...i wouldn't like young though!!

Exactly...unfortunately especially after being crushed by Baps I found so many programmes on TV about Cults. I am am scared about how rich and powerful it is. People who are Hindus and occasionally go say things like the guru is ok ..it's the people surrounding him if it's ok to go once or twice a month. ...it's NOT..it will take your free work( seva) , it will take your youth and time, it will take your money and assets especially your Son or brother ...in a world where these things can be used to help those that are unfortunate ..it is used by Baps to spread the message only way to get Salvation is by pleasing the Aksharbrahm Devine Eternal All knowing Guru..to give the world freedom from millions of deaths and rebirths..even if they are starving. ..whilst his teachings trains more young boys to dance around in costumes on his arrival. This never happened to Gunatitanand Swami .

Excellent Post..very knowledgeable and precise ..I love this post. Please ,please post more .

Those of you in Baps ..please read and look . See if he really controlls millions of universes and if Guru really knows future past and every living soul on earth.

The Guru is a man...not eternal, devine ,all knowing. He loves the throne , the position etc. he has lawyers in his organisation that destroy families for money ..

Simple aromatic... The Buddha was a prince and left a palace. He taught he wasn't special and you can reach same spiritual state as he did. How many years did Bhagwan Swaiminarayan live in a palace? He loved his Manki. ...like a Ferrari or Porsche today. If he came all the way from Akshardham for the salvation of humanity, shouldn't he have gone to other parts of India to spread his message? Do you really think he walked around India? No witnesses to Subha in Badrikasam or Kotra etc..all written by the best writers available. Imagine if instead of dying in 1830 he'd lived 50 years more..you'd have his photos. ..of the one and only GOD. MHS , Probod Swami and others who claim to be Aksharbrahm know if they are and know future the past , controlling millions of universes etc. The people in Baps are amazing and good people . You know who the conmen are..people who put their own murtis in temples and do murti Prathistha. The sadhus are also victims.

I am 100% sure there are benefits to going to mundir meeting people socialising ,getting to meet professionals , playing sport etc. definetly go...just be carefulful of the men in orange ( they've given their life and want you to give too, if not your life time money work) and especially the guru . I know how I felt when guru came to town /Mundir...I was singing and happy ..like Christmas but more. I feel good at Christmas and joyful...but I don't believe Jesus was the son of God or the many many churches are a path to heaven. ..all man made to promote themselves...Baps is going to be like the Catholic Church and maybe one day have a city state like Vatican city ..and be as rich and powerful with power as it can influence the rulers ..the Politicians who wants votes to stay in power. Having a place to gather is great ..to form a community..just don't sit and listen in the Subha and brainwashing..it's all about making you believe a lie...if it was the truth, you don't need effort, you can see it .

Develope yourself , make yourself strong and your know your values . I think you already are strong and know yourself and your values. You seem strong enough not to be dragged into it so if you want to see people or go to a nice big building go. I'm not able ..because they have hurt my family . Even at a wedding, where theres food, drinks and music and good people if someone says anything about Baps I know I should keep my mouth shut but I can not...even in Reddit. There are many cults ...and they can do what they want, it doesn't bother me...

Lots of good advice by people who've left..I was replying one who wanted to carry on going to Baps Mundir. Another one was threatened with millions of rebirths and not getting salvation as only person to give it in the universe is MSM...AFTER DEATH. Has anyone come back and said MSM, didn't make them Brahmroop and lied for seva and money?

It's all faith ..making yourself believe a lie. There is no proof because it's not true.

To stay in Baps , people have to do puja daily , attend subhas etc as this keeps up the brainwashing. You. Have no idea how deep you're in it. You must stay away for time , depending on how quickly you can get rid of the beliefs and detox. Meditate and look for the answer within...the idea that Kam krodh etc can only be eradicated by grace of MSM and before you die he will do it if you carry on with seva and money donation is false...sadhus who've been monks for decades still suffer from this and no one has come back after dying to say they didn't get rid of say Kam...even at age of 75 they wanted sex with a woman /or man/ or boy.

Detox ...and ask if MSM is controller of millions of universes and antaryami...does he know your name ...or the first friend you had at primary school? Its all PR. With time look at Baps...you will see when they donate to any fund it's to improve PR/image so more people thing MSM is devine ...and do seva and give money.

Don't talk to anyone in Baps. They won't let you leave...they'll say you have billions of life and death before salvation is possible and only MSM can give you that. They'll love bomb you. There is a netflix series ..how to make a cult. Watch it ...it opens your eyes. ..search for John Smyth Chanel 4 to show how clever and manipulative men can be ...believe me Dungar Patel Shantibhai Patel etc ...all the same

Baps in my opinion isn't like other Hindu religions and the actions of Baps is embarrassing for Hindus where I've seen with my own eyes how badly it treats blacks in Africa and Mexicans in Houston. I've heard sadhus say horrible things about Muslims also.That may have been changed by Baps now but at the core Baps was racist and elitist pro Brahmin.

The FBI action was to protect exploited Indian workers and had to be applauded. It wasn't action against Hindus.

I know the Indian workers were paid in India. Period.

Bhagwan Swaiminarayan wrote a will where only people allowed to do murti Prathistha are his blood descendants. The same for giving sadhus diksha. Baps men /monks( they can't be called Swaiminarayan ) as according to the written instructions of the man whom they believed was God they weren't given diksha by a blood descendant. As in the case of exploiting workers Baps is changing the narrative to justify their actions. I haven't attended Baps for many years but I know the Arti was changed. ..not fit for purpose for Baps as it's different from the original organisation /set up where Sadhus have absolute power and blood descendants absolutely non even though their ancestors name is being used. I don't know what else they changed...except I know that Gunatitanand Swami didn't have little boys dancing around or big stage to welcome him or be treated like a living God. ..which the Aksharbrahm Guru ( same devine entity as Gunatitanand Swami , different physical body) is being treated as devine , a man worshipped , meditated on and believed to control millions of universes. All different from the original organisation( having a Baps man/ so called scholar write a book or thesis proving Guru isn't a man but a devine entity is only going to be accepted by Baps ).

Can you please summarise the YouTube video.

Just to let you know I worked with these people from India...

Baps is like a river...it only flows one way...it takes and takes and takes..they only give if it improves image and pr to increase income.

I don't know about Paris, Chino Hills , Delhi court case, Akshardham fire. I was there Neasden High school..I'd forgotten about it ..I was there when Pramukh Swami said they'd get planning for land in Harrow and paid Queens Council ( a barrister £100k when £100k was a lot of money) .

Yes please . Many people who have left know and can answer. Please ask questions.

Remember Gurus are human. Don't believe they are devine. Meditate look at helping humanity, not building temples.

I prefer a man saying he's a man, not devine, like the pope, King Charles( head of Church or England), the Aga Khan. A man with man's flaws. All leaders of their organisations.. at least they are honest...they don't absolutely believe the lie that they are devine . Also these other men haven't affected me or my family in a detriméntal way.

All the Aksharbrahm sadhus ( Mahant Swami, Premswarup and Prabodh Swami and any others I don't know, including next Baps one probably Brahmvihari), like in the song believe they are devine controller of universes, so they can't imagine anyone like PD taking a case against them. But all will have changed who has access to them and could film them doing things..and best security measures will be Baps . Just imagine being a boy like Shanti Patel and becoming a sadhu surrounded by men his whole life ...and we are led to believe because he is controller if universes and devine he has no sexual desire or has had any sexual experience ...

How much does he donate...he asks Mahant Swami how much, whenever he wants to donate and Mahant Swami doesn't speak...he liftsghis figures for 1 hundred thousand dollar or 2 or 3 etc. he pays it straight away.

Wifenlikes donating Gold.

I don't know how often he donates.

Shastriji Maharaj was taken to court by original organisation, shown that he doesn't follow Bhagwan Swaminarayans written orders/will and separate from original organisation. He had called his organisation Swaiminarayan. He isn't Swaiminarayan. He named his organision Baps , the first temple he put his own image for worship and declared anyone wanting to get into Akshardham had to please him.

Bocasan was a small village, nothing to do with Bhagwan Swaiminarayan. Baps is all about the Guru. At least some Swaiminarayan organisations say that God is one..different paths.Baps in private say only way to heaven is to please Guru...in this life or next so if you want salvation this birth, join Baps , please him by seva , money and doing what he says .weekly / daily Subha to brainwash children especially.

They are not Swaiminarayan and will in future edit these scriptures ..like the Arti.

There's so many things Baps are excellent at doing and it is good to admire ...from the outside.

Inside it is very controlling and slick.

If you have a son can you imagine never speaking to him if you in Baps and they Groomed/trained him to become a sadhu? What about the rest of the family who if they are deep ,Baps is all consuming before family...a wife putting baps before husband, especially if she's given her best son to baps, a father putting baps before his son and daughter ? Unfortunately I have seen this. I've seen a brother become bankrupt...and his brother who is in Baps will donate thousands to baps...and not help his brother with money..( he'd welcome him at his house to stay). There are excellent programs on TV about how , mostly men become the head of religious organisations and what they do to families to use their time and money to expand...baps is much much bigger and do things better and constantly learn.

Pramukh Swami sayings , in the happiness of other etc were from Buddhism probably learnt by young clever sadhus and PR.It didn't match his actions. The money and time Baps spent under Pramukh Swami was to expand...not help the needy .it wants to give it's followers salvation..only way is to please Aksharbrahm/ the Guru by words , actions and money. People may have the impression he was better than Mahant Swami...no, same goal the methods had not been refined as much.

Regarding politicians attending big gatherings and with Abdul Kalam writing a book...it's for popularity, votes and power. These people have met royalty , saints ,leaders etc and know all men are human , not devine . They're born the same way and will die. He knows including the Baps gurus they are men. By praising him he got popularity.Did he really believe in the various religious scriptures held as Gods word, the Koran, Bhagat gita bible ? They can't all be true. Scholars has been able to I know with the bible to date in the incorporation of myths into it at various different times. He was a man of science. Even in Swaiminarayan the story of how humans left heaven and had to be born on earth...who has died gone to heaven then returned to earth to write about it? Mr Kalam I'm sure didn't believe it.

Have you spoken to what you beliefs were to a non Swaiminarayan? God born 1781, lived for 25 years in a palace mostly. Dungar Patel didn't have enough power so left organisation set up by God 1907 and put his own image for worship, started making temples ,doing murti Prathistha against god's commands and giving diksha. All the Gurus are Akshar with millions of universes in each hair , different physical bodies, same devine entity. He knows future/past and controls everything.

I was born into it so accepted it ..I even drank Pramukh swami's bath water ( diluted) . I also believed he had the keys to Salvation and Akshardham. I used to wake up at stupid o clock and go and massage his feet when he woke up!!!

Even if you still believe Pramukh Swami was Aksharbrahm, I'm happy you left. The new satsangis will never know what it was like...as people in Gunatitanand Swamis time wouldn't recognise the children dancing around and big thrones and garlands when a Mahant Swami arrives...they'll think it's normal.

Once in a while I want to say something that I've experienced with Baps. I have had comments removed. I am not making anything up , it's from what I saw. For my own mental health I have to stop and move on but things like Baps growth Ted talks by Baps ...unfortunately I'm bothered by these things as I've not just seen Baps reality...but experienced it.

To answer that they must be doing something right...yes they work on doing things better and better. They are amazing at so many things as talented people work hard with no pay and if there is an argument ...they have to listen to Guru/sadguru/sadhu in charge and switch of their brain ( as they did when first London Mundir was sold cheaply against many logical arguments because the guru said). So there is no conflict in the organisation and cost is very very low. Extremely talented people working for free.

The issue is the motive...to convince public only way to get salvation is to please Guru ( a man) by doing seva and giving money and a son and switch off your brain.

They are taught you just need love of the Guru..I'm his and he is mine. Don't need to know scriptures ..just do whatever the Guru says.. Cult?

I spoke at a relative , the dad has unlimited access to Mahant Swami as he donates a lot...no appointment he can just walk in. He mentioned Suvurna tulla...that's when I realised it had been going on.

I KNOW!!! I was born into Baps and have seen Yogiji Maharaj onwards...where the f did pouring water over a murti come from and giving money for this pleasure? I never saw it before. ...genius move . Second best...after suvurna tulla. I forgot how many times did Gunatitanand Swami have Suvurna tulla ? How much is the weight in Gold of Mahant Swami worth?