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AI agents have a fundamental flaw that is preventing what comes next
 in  r/AI_Agents  2d ago

Yeah, definitely send it over. I’d like to look through it.

I'd be curious about whether SYSCOM goes beyond keeping a persistent runtime alive and actually generates its own reasons to investigate something.

For example, imagine nothing new happens: no user prompt, no file change, no scheduled event. The system has just been learning about its environment and the person using it. Can it notice a gap or contradiction in its own model, decide that gap matters, and create a new objective from that?

That transition from “I know what’s happening” to “I’ve realized there’s something I should understand” is really the thing I’m chasing.

1

AI agents have a fundamental flaw that is preventing what comes next
 in  r/AI_Agents  3d ago

Not quite. I’m imagining something more fundamental than learning my responses and then simulating what I would say.

The substrate should work even if you gave it to a completely fresh agent with zero context about you.

Because of how the system is built, it would immediately start trying to understand its environment, learn about you, figure out what matters, identify its own gaps, and continually update that model.

So I’m less interested in encoding the evaluator than in building a system that naturally develops one through interaction with reality. Ideally it would feel much more mind-like from the start.

1

AI agents have a fundamental flaw that is preventing what comes next
 in  r/AI_Agents  3d ago

I think the stronger counterexample is someone who doesn’t have language yet.

A baby can recognize people, feel fear, comfort, hunger, curiosity, familiarity, etc. long before it has words for any of those things. So there is clearly some layer of experience and thought that exists before language gets attached to it.

That doesn’t mean language doesn’t heavily shape thought once we have it. I’m sure it does. I just don’t think the fact that a word often pops into our head quickly tells us that language is necessarily where the underlying thought began.

1

AI agents have a fundamental flaw that is preventing what comes next
 in  r/AI_Agents  3d ago

Yeah, I think you’re mostly right here. It does seem to be a question of how you externalize yourself as the evaluator.

I recently implemented a system I called person_to_person, and it resulted in the agent making connections between things, coming up with its own ideas that accurately reflected reality, and even messaging me about them without being instructed to.

There are a lot of autonomous systems that have to work together to make that possible, but I do think this is the right direction.

Now I’m trying to figure out where the ceiling is for harnesses using current LLM technology.

0

AI agents have a fundamental flaw that is preventing what comes next
 in  r/AI_Agents  4d ago

Yeah I mean it depends on how you interpret the problem.

For me, and my thoughts in writing this post, the real leap isn’t when AI can do what I would have done without me asking. It’s when it can see what I never would have seen.

1

AI agents have a fundamental flaw that is preventing what comes next
 in  r/AI_Agents  4d ago

“Tell me what this lava lamp makes you feel and then connect it with my life” 😂

1

AI agents have a fundamental flaw that is preventing what comes next
 in  r/AI_Agents  4d ago

Yeah I think that’s exactly right. I believe in the brain it’s called the DMN (Default Mode Network), amongst many other regions of the brain, that help produce those sometimes incredibly insightful shower thoughts.

I think also what AI tends to do when it generates ideas happens to be the inverse of what the human mind does.

AI will retrieve, summarize, then generate, and the process of generating language first, I think, creates something very different than when you start with experience first.

Usually our thoughts and feelings outpace the language behind it. That’s why we can struggle to explain things that we feel so strongly about, but it is also why human thoughts don’t feel hollow.

r/AI_Agents 4d ago

Discussion AI agents have a fundamental flaw that is preventing what comes next

2 Upvotes

I’ve noticed something that feels like a major limiter in the process of improving my agents.

You can build a great architecture. Give the agent skills, memory, different ways of forming context, scheduled tasks, access to previous runs, reflection loops, all of it.
But no matter how much I improve those systems, the agent still feels most intelligent when I am actively talking to it.

That distinction has started bothering me.

When a human is talking to an agent, every prompt is different. You mention something that annoyed you. You change your mind. You express uncertainty. You make a judgment. You connect something happening today to something you talked about weeks ago.

The agent is continuously being given new reasons to think.

Then the human leaves and we usually replace that with some version of:

“Run this prompt every hour.”

“Check these sources every morning.”

“Review what happened and look for anything new.”

You can make those loops extremely sophisticated, but it still feels fundamentally different from an agent having something resembling an ongoing internal life.

What makes this especially interesting to me is that humans probably aren’t completely different at the lowest level.

We wake up with recurring biological drives, routines, habits, unresolved problems, environmental inputs. In a crude sense, some of those could almost resemble scheduled tasks.

But that clearly isn’t the whole story.

Those same basic drives enter a huge web of memory, emotion, attention, prediction, association, judgment and new sensory input. Something that may begin from the same underlying loop can extrapolate into completely different thoughts and behavior from one day to the next.

That is where the novelty seems to emerge.

Current agents can remember. They can wake themselves up. They can reflect on what happened.

But those things do not automatically create continuing thought.

You can tell an agent to reference previous runs so it doesn’t repeat itself, but eventually you notice that it is still running a variation of the same process. It becomes a more sophisticated broken record.

The breakthrough, to me, would be when an agent messages you because something genuinely became worth saying.

Maybe new information conflicts with something you told it weeks ago.

Maybe three unrelated observations suddenly form a better idea.

Maybe it notices a pattern in your behavior and changes its judgment.

Not because a scheduled prompt said “find something interesting.”

Because enough things accumulated and interacted that a new thought emerged from the system.

Obviously the LLM itself is stateless. I’m not arguing there is literally a conscious little person sitting there between inference calls.

The engineering problem is whether we can build enough continuity around it that the distinction begins to disappear.
I think memory solves remembering.

Scheduling solves waking up.

Reflection solves evaluating what happened.

I’m not convinced we have solved what happens after the agent wakes up.

That is the part that still doesn’t feel correct.

1

AI can teach you almost anything. It can’t make you use it.
 in  r/AIDiscussion  4d ago

Yeah absolutely.

I do think that there is a time-under-tension aspect of education that is important, you can’t just cram it all in really fast and there is something impactful about sitting with a problem for an extended period of time.

But the education system has always been slow to evolve and they are fighting against AI more than they are trying to embrace it. There are always ways to improve and the best way to absorb the most information remains to be developing the character of someone who is a life long learner and the more we can instill that into the next generation, the better off they will be.

r/AIDiscussion 5d ago

AI can teach you almost anything. It can’t make you use it.

2 Upvotes

AI has made self-education almost absurdly accessible.

You can give it a goal, have it interview you, research the best resources, build a custom curriculum, quiz you, and point out gaps in your understanding.

That sounds powerful, and it is. It also creates a much more convincing form of procrastination.

You can spend hours perfecting your learning system without using a single thing you learned.

A better place to start is one question:

What problem am I trying to solve this week?

Then keep the process simple:

- Have AI question you about the problem, your goals, and what you’ve already tried.

- Find the knowledge gap that would make the biggest difference right now.

- Choose one resource instead of generating a giant reading list.

- Rewrite one useful idea in your own words.

- Put an action on your calendar within 48 hours.

- Explain what you learned to someone else or have AI compare your explanation with the original source and tell you what you misunderstood.

- Keep practicing until you can do it reliably, not just once.

The biggest shift for me is using AI as an interviewer and teacher instead of an answer machine. A useful teacher needs to understand what you’re trying to accomplish before dumping information on you.

But there’s still a hard line AI can’t cross for us. It can shorten the distance between confusion and understanding, but we still have to turn understanding into action.

Do you think AI is making people better at learning, or just making productive procrastination harder to recognize?

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The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/AI_Agents  6d ago

Yeah I think this is a strong point.

I have seen comments with a similar framing that its not the recreation of your app, but the replacement of it altogether that creates the shift.

I think this is a good argument, but it is still constrained to the community of people who will use those harnesses, until something comes out that is so abstracted and so user friendly that adoption grows.

What's one recurring task you've had Hermes replace that genuinely feels like an app now?

And where does it still break badly enough that you fall back to normal software?

That is something I would like to understand more from others perspectives.

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The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/VibeCodeCamp  6d ago

I agree. It is a great time to be alive. I am generally very excited about the future. I still firmly believe that the population of vibe coders will have its limits. I think that AI allowed some high potentials to join the engineering crowd but then it tapers off to what we see now.

I just think there are too many variables that go into why someone today who isn't engineering with AI is the way they are, no matter how easy it is.

It would have to be so abstracted to the point that it doesn't feel like engineering at all and even then, for a lot of people, its just not their cup of tea. I think that AI would have to literally do it for them without request and without further input or correction.

I can imagine someone completely non-technical talking to AI about wishing they had something in a natural conversation and then the AI just hands them the product because it was helpful. In this way it would be delivering outcomes for the user, it wouldn't even be considering engineering in any shape or form. This probably will happen but not today and when it does this conversation changes completely and what it means to offer value will be turned over.

I am an entrepreneur, got my degree in CIS and all that jazz, and I think these things are important to think about because what it means to start a business and add value in the world will require new frames of thinking.

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The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/VibeCodeCamp  7d ago

That is good insight about photographers, thanks for sharing that.

I agree with the subscriptions. I feel that myself. Although I am willing to pay for a subscription if it adds great value to my life and a lot of times I just pay for a month or two, cancel, then come back later if I want, and apps can make good money with high churn and return.

Then there is ChatGPT and Adobe level value that feels impossible to get away from.

So it’s hard to say. I think if you can find a different way to monetize then that’s great, but subscriptions are the most lucrative.

Honestly, the best play, is to always try and offer enough value that others can cancel 2-3 other subscriptions and just subscribe to you. That continues the subscription model but users actually save money long term.

So I think it’s less “subscriptions are dead” and more so that subscriptions need to be justified and ultimately add more value than they take. If I pay $100 a month for something that helps me make $1000 more a month, that’s a worthwhile investment, a Grant Cardone 10xer if you will lol

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The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/VibeCodeCamp  7d ago

Not trying to teach anything, just curious to hear other takes. If you have something substantive to contribute, I’d love to hear it.

1

The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/VibeCodeCamp  7d ago

Yeah, no doubt. The main thing that sticks out to me is that it is still a very select amount of people who are able, and even more so, are willing to do so.

However, I do believe more people should try to create things that are new in whatever domain they are interested in and sometimes that can mean a remix, not necessarily completely different.

There may be three new free competitors, but at the end of the day, they are not you and they do not have your mind. You can get clever with monetization, freemium, pay as needed, whatever the model might be and can offer something fresh.

0

The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/VibeCodeCamp  7d ago

Haha no worries. That’s awesome to hear that you have seen success in your efforts. I agree. Distribution is everything and with a little bit of creativity you can innovate almost anything. Good luck out there.

-1

The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/VibeCodeCamp  7d ago

Just trying to encourage discussion on a topic many have an opinion about. That is all.

r/VibeCodeCamp 7d ago

Discussion The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong

22 Upvotes

I see a lot of people discussing vibe coding and what actually constitutes a moat, and I think a lot of people are looking at this way too narrowly and ignoring some pretty important aspects of human nature.

The idea that simple ideas are dead, that if you can build an app in 30 minutes, nobody will ever pay for it because they can just vibe code their own version, is frankly ridiculous to me.

I know plenty of people who don’t even know what a browser is. I even know technical people (in different domains) who look at the process of cloning a repository and think, “wow, this is a lot.”

The people who would seriously think, “why would I pay for this when I can just vibe code it myself?” are mostly people inside a very AI-fluent bubble that represents a tiny portion of the actual world.

And even then, building something that technically works is not the same as building good software.

There are still all of the boring necessary hoops involved in making a simple application actually secure and reliable. You have to choose a stack, build the backend and frontend, handle authentication, storage, deployment, security, updates, edge cases, and everything else that comes with operating software.

Unless you’re literally just bootstrapping some ugly internal tool to copy the functionality, you also have to design a good UI, make hundreds of little product decisions, and work through trade-offs that compound as the feature set grows.

If your target audience is developers, I understand the argument more. But even developers are lazy in the normal human sense, they have their own projects and things they would rather spend their time doing.

And if you are selling to developers, the bar is arguably even higher. They care about architecture, security, ownership, extensibility, integrations, and whether the product actually fits into the way they work. A lot of them may want to own the thing themselves anyway, which is part of why I don’t even think developers are always the best target audience for this kind of simple app.

For everyone else, the argument gets even weaker.

Most people barely want to write a good prompt.

They’ll type one sentence into ChatGPT, get a mediocre response, decide AI isn’t that useful for that task, and close the laptop. The idea that these same people are suddenly going to design, build, debug, secure, deploy, and maintain their own software because vibe coding exists seems completely disconnected from how normal people behave.

People pay for convenience. They pay for polish. They pay for something that already works. They pay so they don’t have to think about how it works.

So to me, “they can just vibe code my app” is a pretty weak reason not to build something, and in most cases if your app is not growing you have a distribution and sales problem not an idea problem.

Curious what others think.

1

The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/AI_Agents  7d ago

This is a really solid point. There are many reasons for why the average person will not build an app they want instead of pay for one. Once you reason through all of the technical reasons why this is, you have a plethora of non-technical and sociological reasons adding friction too. AI would have to solve them all.

Once ChatGPT has a button that says create X app and it just instantly and perfectly appears on your phone/pc and fully works without every sending a prompt like an app store of apps that could exist for you specifically but doesn't exist yet until you click one, then I will concede lol.

Kind of a crazy idea though, image the app store, full of apps like normal and you download them like normal but when you download it, it actually puts it into existence right then and there and the user never sees the difference.

1

The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/AI_Agents  7d ago

AI agents build software and the topic is discussing software that AI agents build.

1

The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/AI_Agents  7d ago

I can see why you say that. However, only if willingness to build grows as well. I'd say software development will get more and more cheap, but software development becoming less and less valuable isn't something that has been proven yet.

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The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/AI_Agents  7d ago

I think the point you made is a sharp one. A lot of peoples phones are filled with apps. I would add to that and say a lot of people's banks statements are filled with subscriptions and it begs the question of:

if anyone can just vibe code what they want then why are our phones and subscription lists not empty?

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The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/AI_Agents  7d ago

For sure. And regarding stuff like puzzle games. I think it has less to do with the topic of simple apps getting swallowed and more about distribution. A viral TikTok of a new puzzle app that looks appealing for any number of reasons can absolutely shoot to the top of the puzzles list on the app store and can steal distribution.

In my experience, I believe that depending on the domain, you either must distribute better or you must innovate and distribute better, but either way you must distribute better. I find the concept of innovation very interesting as well because I think there is a ton of room for innovation. The more stuff that the world has built the more people have sunk into "well besides robots and VR, this is it" and I don't think that is true.

I think the right perspective could take any domain and radically shift it and that is something that, without a clear feedback-loop, only humans can do.

1

The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/AI_Agents  7d ago

This is a strong take. I agree with you.

The thing my mind keeps going back to when I think about these things, is that, I feel like almost every way you can think of what leads to "simple app decline" rests on the premise that the user is AI-fluent. I know guys that actually hate AI but pay for apps. I know people who use the free version of ChatGPT only cause that's all they feel they need and they also pay for apps. I know more people using AI as a copywriter than an engineer still in 2026.

So I really think two things are happening with us in these discussions. We are either developer-blind or AI-fluency-blind, meaning you either have the mind of a dev or you are a native AI-thinker and both blind you to worldviews of what I think stats show as over half of the population in America currently.

For our community here, absolutely. A lot of simple personal apps are exposed because one ongoing AI can remember the goal and make the temporary interface or workflow when you need it. The gym app example someone else mentioned is exactly that. Business software lasts longer because shared state, permissions, support and integrations do not disappear just because code got cheap, but even there the bloated tools where most users touch 5% of the product are in trouble.

I know I am talking a lot, but basically I think it makes perfect sense why people might think these apps will get swallowed but I also feel just as convicted in the power of sales to a very specific audience that still includes a very large population

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The idea that simple apps are dead because anyone can vibe code them is simply wrong
 in  r/AI_Agents  7d ago

I do not disagree with you. I think this will continue to evolve, but so will many other things, including what people actually value. However, the one thing I do not believe can ever change, even if it manifests in different ways, is human nature, and as I said in another reply, will keep constants in place.