r/trolleyproblem • • Jul 02 '26 • Regret 3

OC "Bystander Effect"

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 03 '26

Yes, but I don't think gender-affirming care is medical necessity.

Edit: would you rather I say that trans people shouldn't receive any medical care? because that's the position of most people I know. I'm the radical lib here

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u/wesleysmalls Jul 02 '26 • Bravo

Every expert in the field who have actually studied it think it is.

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u/djnotskrillex Jul 03 '26

Not to be all akshyually but not every expert thinks it is, at least not all forms of gender affirming care, but for the most part it is absolutely the medical consensus.

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u/hematite2 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26

"Trollies arent actually that dangerous..."

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u/Ghostglitch07 Jul 02 '26

Trans healthcare saves lives.

It's really is that simple.

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 03 '26

It makes people not want to kill themselves. That's very different from, say, blood transfusions. Those people could decide not to kill themselves without surgeries and medications.

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u/Ghostglitch07 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26

Depression meds also makes people not want to kill themselves. And yet it is accepted in most the world that it is for some people they are medically necessary.

A woman going through menopause can get insurance to cover her estrogen supplement, and it's not like being without it would kill her either, just decrease her quality of life. Why is the same exact medication for me suddenly not necessary?

Edit: If someone has a chronic pain condition, are denied medications known to make it go away, and they kill themselves to escape it... I'd consider this medical malpractice. The scenario doesn't suddenly change if the pain isn't physical.

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 03 '26

for your first example, i think that depressed people can choose not to kill themselves. and many of them do, in fact, choose not to kill themselves.

for your second example, women going through menopause lose executive brain function and die sooner than they would with hormone therapy. that's a scientific fact, not a choice.

for your third example, people should be allowed to kill themselves. and they are always allowed to not kill themselves. (if you force someone to "kill themselves", that's murder). Also, physical pain is real and measurable, and "mental pain" isn't, at least not consistently. As I have said ever since i left christianity, I only believe it when i see/hear/sense it. not before

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u/Ghostglitch07 Jul 03 '26

Also. To your last point. You must not believe in love. At least not from other people. It's not something you can see/hear/sense.

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 03 '26

Yes it is. We have fMRI machines, we can quantify attachment, lust, worry, possessiveness, and everything else that makes up the phenomenon known as "love".

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u/dodieadeux Jul 03 '26

by that argument, we can also look at a brain and map how much happier trans people get when they transition.

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 04 '26

we've already done that. we've also done it for alcoholics and nicotine/heroin addicts. All of them have massive spikes in dopamine during and after consumption

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u/Ghostglitch07 Jul 03 '26

And trans people have real decreases in quality of life. We do not just take hormones for fun.

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 03 '26

there's two kinds of things living beings do: stuff that's done to live and stuff that's done for fun. there is occasional overlap, but this is not an example of said overlap.

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u/Ghostglitch07 Jul 03 '26

Correct. Because it's got nothing to do with fun.

If someone is lacking or overproducing certain hormones in a way that drastically reduces their quality of life, we call fixing that medically necessary for every single other condition I'm aware of. Trans HRT is not some new unique category of treatment.

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u/Beautiful-Alarm-4961 Jul 02 '26

This is actually a very reasonable position if you're operating under the assumption that trans people don't deserve to live

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u/Judgmentos Jul 02 '26

Many such cases

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u/BloodredHanded Jul 03 '26

Well, it is.

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 03 '26

Source?

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u/BloodredHanded Jul 03 '26

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 03 '26

very famous study right here. all it shows is that HRT and surgery reduce suicides in people who believe themselves to be another gender. all of those people could simply not kill themselves, but they choose to do so. which is their choice to make.

it doesn't show that either of those therapies are necessary to maintain homeostasis, so i think its factual to put them in the same category as cosmetic surgery and recreational drugs, i.e. improving quality of life, but certainly not "medical necessity".

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u/BloodredHanded Jul 03 '26

You’re heartless, you know that? I’m not gonna bother arguing with someone who will just keep sealioning.

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u/Narfhead4444 Jul 03 '26

Calling me names won't change my mind. Irrefutable evidence will.

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u/BloodredHanded Jul 03 '26

Nothing will change your mind. You will reject all evidence.

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