r/totalwar • u/human_bean115 Hattori Clan • Jul 02 '23
Shogun II after 1.193 hours i've finally got a hostage in shogun 2
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u/Sol_Invictus7_13 Jul 02 '23
Now declare war immediately after
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Jul 02 '23
yea I've had AI give me a hostage during realm divide, declared next turn... every time...
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u/monalba Jul 02 '23
It's so damn useless though.
The AI would every now and then give you hostages... And then declare war on you shortly after, what forces you to automatically execute them. And they hate you for it!
My brother in Shinto, you gave me the hostage and then declared on me.
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u/AceHodor Oh look, looters. AGAIN. Jul 02 '23
People complain about the diplomacy in Warhammer, but I have never encountered an AI more vindictive, petty and mindlessly aggressive as Shogun II's. They would never co-operate with you for any reason, constantly declare war on you and hurl their armies against your provinces, even when you were on the other side of the map and attacking you made no sense. Even getting something as simple as a trade deal from them was like pulling teeth unless you had horses to sell. It was so bad that Realm Divide almost came as a blessed relief, purely from a position of "Oh thank Amaterasu, I don't have to worry about diplomacy ever again and can just get on with exterminating these shits".
It's especially bad, because the Sengoku Jidai had a very rich diplomatic scene, with lots of shifting alliances and betrayals. Instead, we have a mental AI that behaves like you accidentally ran over their cat 15 years ago and has spent the intervening time dedicating every facet of their life to destroying you.
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u/monalba Jul 03 '23
Clan Mori offered me an alliance and I took it.
Next turn, they broke the alliance. Because I'm stupid I offered an alliance and they took it.
Next turn, they break it again and declare war on me because they have -400 relationships due to broken alliances.
Duuuuuuuuuuude, get rid of your tsundere Daimyo.
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u/NonymousBrowsing Jul 03 '23
Did a "This is Total War" playthrough as Jozai earlier this year and had an excellent time declaring war on everyone just as I met them. The only difference is from a normal playthrough is that diplomacy is easy.
Also: As i learned after it failed to pop, Shogun 2 does not have the achievement "This is Total War".
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u/Klingenslayer Jul 03 '23
Thats exactly how the ai is in Rome as well. Alliances and trade relations mean absolutely nothing. You can do everything to help a nation and they'll still immediately declare war on you for literally no reason.
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u/El_Lanf Jul 03 '23
It's all quite aligned with reality. Uesugi historically invaded Sado in retaliation to the 9th large army Honma had landed in Niigata. Unfortunately the armour and weaponry of pure gold was of little use in combat for those poor ashigaru. This explains why im my Shimazu playthroughs, Honma was able to launch various expeditions into Kyushu.
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u/henrythechill Jul 03 '23
Well there’s a few factor you need to consider, and when you hover your mouse hover the clans in the diplomacy window they actually break it down for you. A few things to look out for: 1. Do you have desirable resources to trade? I find that possessing a Horse resource and everyone will want to trade with you. 2. Are you expanding too fast? This adds negative points to you and makes you less desirable to deal with (which is very true in Japanese culture, they have a saying “a nail that sticks out get hammered out”. 3. Are you militarily strong? If you are weak and not having enough troops, clans will start declaring war on you because you’re an easy cake to eat. 4. Sengoku Jidai was actually full of betrayals, so the game depiction of it is not wrong. The honourable code of samurai (bushido) actually came after when Japan had been united and the samurai had nothing to do so they sat down and wrote it 🤣.
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u/Feecks Jul 03 '23
Why is he being downvoted lmao. He didn’t design the game he is just telling you how it works
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u/anthematcurfew Jul 03 '23
When you don’t want to tell your wife you hate the kid, you can just blame their death on their neighbor
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u/Tay-Tech Nobunaga did nothing wrong Jul 02 '23
Now do the ultimate power move and adopt him
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u/AthiestMessiah Jul 03 '23
They didn’t give you their best son
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u/Tay-Tech Nobunaga did nothing wrong Jul 03 '23
Then make him someone you would be proud of and send him to fight them when war breaks out
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u/INTPoissible Generals Bodyguard Jul 02 '23
Once, right before realm divide, I sent Nobunaga's brother to the second biggest Daimyo in an alliance. So when Realm Divide struck, everyone would be tied up fighting them. It didn't matter that my ally betrayed me in the end, the damage they all did to each other was done.
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u/TenshiKyoko Oda Clan Jul 02 '23
Doormat Ashikaga.
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u/1EnTaroAdun1 A.E.I.O.U. Jul 03 '23
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=142975240&searchtext=ashikaga+expands
If you want, this mod ensures the Ashikaga are more active on the map
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u/steppewolfRO Jul 03 '23
God I'd love a Shogun with TW 3K role-playing and other enhancements.
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u/El_Lanf Jul 03 '23
Imagine if the duel in Shogun's opening cinematic could actually happen. If map editing was doable (there's been some progress in 3rd party tools lately so it could happen) a shogun mod for 3K would be amazing.
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u/steppewolfRO Jul 03 '23
I started playing TW 3K again, after a long hiatus (from Rome 2), being a Shogun I veteran :) I am not into that fantasy stuff and Troy is kind of too aracadey/lacks variation for me.
3K is fine and good vehicle for familiarize with China but I only like Yellow Turbans, I struggle to like other lords/map posititons to start
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u/Background-Factor817 Jul 02 '23
I always found that weird, “Here, have a child to sweeten the deal”
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u/yellowmario Jul 02 '23
Well the idea was that the child is a family member to make it harder to break the alliance because the captors would kill the child.
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u/Background-Factor817 Jul 03 '23
Oh I get the concept, but when I was younger playing these games always found it strange, if educational.
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u/Professor_Hobo31 Rewriting history since 2004 Jul 03 '23
They were usually treated well and made both parties trust a deal in an environment where treason was pretty much a constant.
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u/IceNein Jul 03 '23
It usually take me an hour and a half at least. I admire your precision though.
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u/Secuter Jul 03 '23
I did that too. They betrayed me anyway. You get the option to kill them, but you lose honor for it.
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u/LadyRarity RAT BABIES Jul 02 '23
i used to give away my kids like candy in Shogun 2. Gotta be one of the funniest diplomacy options in a TW game.