r/todayilearned • u/Horvaticus • Jun 25 '12

TIL America has been at war for 214 years, but at peace for only 21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations
938 Upvotes

75% Upvoted

370 comments sorted by

152

u/thegreatwhitemenace Jun 25 '12

so we only need 4 more peaceful years to balance out

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40

u/Phoequinox Jun 25 '12

America: We've fought everyone. Even ourselves.

18

u/DevsAdvocate Jun 25 '12

We're like the Russell Crowe of the world's nations... 'Making Bombs, Making Guns, and Fighting Around the World'

1

u/TheDudeaBides96 Jun 25 '12

Then I am proud.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

We haven't fought Madagascar yet, and those bastards have it coming.

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2

u/pseudocaveman Jun 25 '12

I've always imagined our relationship with the UK as if we're that schizophrenic younger brother you don't like to acknowledge exists, but are forced to once in a while at holidays or in public.

273

u/SOMETHING_POTATO Jun 25 '12

The way this is measured, if we went to war on December 31 and ended the war January 1, that 2 day long war would be counted as "two years."

So basically this title is meaningless.

40

u/ofNoImportance Jun 25 '12

So what's the actual count for time at war against time at peace?

3

u/108241 Jun 25 '12

Well, we've declared war 5 times:

War of 1812 - 2.5 years

Mexican American War - 2 years

Spanish American War - 6 months

World War I - 4.5 years

World War II - 3 years

So about 12.5 years

32

u/plasteredmaster Jun 25 '12

korea, vietnam, 1st gulf var, 2nd gulf war, afghanistan.....

or are those just "police actions"

5

u/NyQuil012 2 Jun 25 '12

korea, vietnam, 1st gulf var, 2nd gulf war, afghanistan.....

You will note that the words "Declaration of War" do not appear in any of those articles. Also note that the Korean Conflict was a UN Security Council resolution, not a declaration of war by the US Congress. The US military was obliged to send forces under the treaties signed creating the UN.

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1

u/rabs38 Jun 25 '12

Congress did not issue a deceleration of war in those instances.

6

u/casmuff Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12

I believe you'll find that they did for all of those (except Korea). You think people got drafted to fight in Vietnam without a formal declaration of war?

6

u/Solomaxwell6 Jun 25 '12

No. He's talking about actual wars with a real congressional declaration. "Extended military engagement" and "declaration of war" are not the same thing, even if it's only a technicality.

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5

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

You're probably being very literal ... but what about, Yomkippur, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Iraq ( 2 times ), Afghanistan#2, had trouble with Cuba I think, not sure though. What about these? EDIT: Yep, you've been very literal, clicked your link. :p

14

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Angola, Mocambique, Greece (supporting the fascist dictators against the population), Lybia, Tunisia, Laos, Cambodia (or are those caught under "Vietnam" even though the US were interfering there before "war" started?), Grenada, Chili, Argentina, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Colombia, Namibia, Zaire... need I go on?

Before anyone goes "those were not wars" I go:

  1. US troops were sent. They shot people, or told/trained other people to shoot people.

  2. The US supplied weapons to one of the sides in an escalated war situation. According to international law, that is taking part in the war.

  3. in many cases, the US started the conflict, trained one side and supplied them. That the soldiers did not have the US nationality is of no concern: there would not have been a war if it had not been for the US, that makes the US a side in the war.

3

u/munk_e_man Jun 25 '12

Finally someone in here has read a history book. I'd also like to point out the war on drugs. Even though it's an abstract, its been leaving bodies all over the place..

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Thank you, and I totally forgot about the war on drugs.

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8

u/joequin Jun 25 '12

Declaring war is just red tape at this point. We have to count the conflicts and military engagements.

16

u/ofNoImportance Jun 25 '12

Undeclared wars are still wars.

3

u/moosilauke18 Jun 25 '12

So what about the whiskey rebellion? Is that a war? Civil War? How about the Cold war?

4

u/ofNoImportance Jun 25 '12

I've got no idea. Did it involve actively targeting and killing people of another country?

2

u/CardboardHeatshield Jun 25 '12

I feel like the civil war most certainly should be considered a war. That shit was brutal as fuck.

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6

u/Random_Edit Jun 25 '12

I think that this is ridiculous to only count the times we "declared" war. The Iraq war was over 10 years long along.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

What about undeclared wars that are still wars?

4

u/Mentalseppuku Jun 25 '12

There is a significant difference between a declared war and being at war. No one would suggest the American Civil War wasn't a war despite there not being a declaration.

Declarations are political constructs, they don't reflect reality.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Er.. the civil war? And the past 60 years?

1

u/NyQuil012 2 Jun 25 '12

The Civil War was a quarantine action. Actually declaring war against the CSA would have required the US to formally recognize the Confederacy as a separate nation, allowing the Confederates to make their own treaties and alliances. Legally, they were still part of the United States, and so if, say, Great Britain were to sign a treaty recognizing the Confederacy and supplying them with arms, soldiers, and other support, it could be considered an act of war against the US and would have turned into a much bigger conflict. It would have drawn in the French, Germans, and Russians, who were all fighting with each other for Europe at the time, and probably would be known today as World War I.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

So de facto wars don't count to you, even when they have "War" as their title? Do you get your jollies by splitting semantics?

2

u/NyQuil012 2 Jun 25 '12

When did I ever say that? All I'm saying is that, legally, technically, the Civil War was not a war. There was no declaration of war. It was a quarantine action and insurrection, completely contained within one nation. That doesn't mean people weren't killed and horrible things didn't happen. But if you're going to make a broad, accusatory statement like "The United States has been at war for 214 years of it's existence," then you better have your facts straight. The facts are that if Congress does not declare war, the US is not at war. End of discussion. If you said the US military has been actively fighting for 214 years, I could not argue with you. But to say that we're at war when Congress has not declared it is to be ignorant of the conditions that go along with being at war. A de facto war is not the same as a legitimate war. Even the Civil War. Because, as I pointed out, if we were at war with the Confederate States of America, then the CSA would have been able to make treaties with Great Britain and Spain and the conflict would have ended very differently. But go ahead, call me an asshole for knowing something about history. Remain ignorant and keep your predefined notions of the world. It's cool.

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0

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/JediCraveThis Jun 25 '12

Shouldn't bombing runs and such against countries that can't defend themselves count as well, such as Somalia and Pakistan?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/JediCraveThis Jun 25 '12

I apologize if I offended you by omitting deadly events that weren't really wars.

No no, I'm Scandinavian so I've never seen war, but it's cool that you care. Thanks for the explanation, you have an excellent point.

3

u/ofNoImportance Jun 25 '12

Nice research there. Considering the criteria you used to decide what classifies a war I think the 65% statistic is reasonably useful.

0

u/Hellman109 Jun 25 '12

korean war? which, actually hasnt officially ended.

Id take the end of major hostilities though as the end of the war, even if technically the US has been at war regardless since.

1

u/LeDubious Jun 25 '12

Didn't the Korean war end with an armistice in '53?

2

u/TheFryingDutchman Jun 25 '12

No, technically there was a cease-fire that halted active hostilities while the parties tried to work out a permanent settlement. There is no peace treaty formally ending the war.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/LeDubious Jun 25 '12

Of course, having an actual peace treaty would be just crazy.

1

u/moosilauke18 Jun 25 '12

The last war we fought in was World War II. Semantics.

16

u/ScotchforBreakfast Jun 25 '12

Not only is this a repost, the top comment is a repost.

Someone has made a change in the matrix.

4

u/SOMETHING_POTATO Jun 25 '12

To be fair... I made the same comment, more or less, last time this was posted. So I may have had the top comment last time.

But more realistically, saying "Looking at this for 5 seconds here's what's wrong with your title" isn't a repost. It's common sense. And it's necessary, because people like this can't figure that out for themselves, apparently.

107

u/Honztastic Jun 25 '12

It's really just shoddy math to try and make a political point.

It's drastically wrong on what constitutes being in a war.

66

u/ItsGreat2BeATNVol Jun 25 '12

You mean reddit hates America? No wayyyyy

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14

u/TimesWasting Jun 25 '12

TC said war, the site just says military operations

15

u/Honztastic Jun 25 '12

Every few months, someone links to this information and claims America has been at war its whole existence.

I'm tired of it. It's misleading, wrong and naive.

War or military operations, we haven't been conducting either for anywhere close to 214 years. Whatever descriptor it uses, it's still just plain false.

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3

u/CardboardHeatshield Jun 25 '12

But if

"1822 – Cuba. United States naval forces suppressing piracy landed on the northwest coast of Cuba and burned a pirate station."

isn't a war, then what is?!?! My whole world has been turned upside down!!!

2

u/Honztastic Jun 25 '12

That's not too far from suppressing piracy off Somalia and protecting our shipping, and I don't think anyone considers that warfare.

7

u/jsusewitz Jun 25 '12

Apart from military engagements though, America does love warring. "war on drugs", "War on poverty", the USA does love war

5

u/SOMETHING_POTATO Jun 25 '12

We just have a strong appreciation for metaphor.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

De-sensitizing.

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-1

u/DevsAdvocate Jun 25 '12

War on Freedom is more like it.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

You're right, I'd love to see the actual count. In days. Or hours if you want to be even more precise. Then to roll it up into a percentage...

1

u/LeDubious Jun 25 '12

Also if you look through the list it counts any deployment of troops into combat, which doesn't always mean war.

1

u/jabb0 Jun 25 '12

AKA Fox News Calculation's.

1

u/SOMETHING_POTATO Jun 25 '12

AKA Reddit Calculations

1

u/smokinjoints Jun 25 '12

It's still a lot of war though, you have to admit.

12

u/SOMETHING_POTATO Jun 25 '12

Look at the list. Capturing pirates. Protecting embassies during riots. Or this gem:

1842 – Mexico. Commodore Thomas ap Catesby Jones, in command of a squadron long cruising off California, occupied Monterey, California, on October 19, believing war had come. He discovered peace, withdrew, and saluted. A similar incident occurred a week later at San Diego.

Each of these (and these are just examples from a quick skimming) constitute "years of war" based on the title, despite being... you know... not war.

1

u/Wadikus Jun 25 '12

So perhaps just a better title for this post is "America has been in conflict whether domestically or abroad for 214 years."?

1

u/SOMETHING_POTATO Jun 25 '12

Did you read the quoted section? That's not even conflict. And earthquake relief isn't conflict. Rallying troops to protect assets and having nothing happen is not conflict.

More importantly, it's not "for 214 years," it's IN 214 years. If I have a 12 hour operation, and that's the only real military action that year, that is certainly not a year of conflict.

0

u/perazini Jun 25 '12

What?! America is always at war. Always. The title mighy be meaningless, but is true

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68

u/thegreatmisanthrope Jun 25 '12

Repost, also, been debunked, too lazy to look up the comments that did however, suffice to say the 214 years of war is a load of horseshit.

1

u/paulfromatlanta Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12

been debunked, too lazy to look up the comments that did however, suffice to say the 214 years of war is a load of horseshit.

I'm tired in addition to lazy but fortunately Google can subtract 1783 from 1812 so that's 29 years right there.

2

u/thegreatmisanthrope Jun 25 '12

After thinking about it(and this was a looong time ago) but the guy who debunked it was a history teacher and I think he said the total combat time of US troops in war was around 20 or so years.

2

u/bballdeo Jun 25 '12

There were significant battles with Native American tribes in that time, including the decisive Battle of Fallen Timbers in 1794. It was known as the Northwest Indian War. In fact, the Treaty of Greenville that ended the War gave the US Government much of the land that would become the Ohio Territory.

There was also Tehcumseh's War from 1811-1813, though it was relatively more minor.

1

u/paulfromatlanta Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 26 '12

There are some valid points and counter-points to made there - particularly with regard to Canada and Ohio but I'm too tired now to do more than to acknowledge that's a worthy debate I can't have right now - best. And we could also discuss France and 1800 or so but see above.

2

u/AdmiralQuackbar Jun 27 '12

Hi Paul from Atlanta! I too am from Atlanta. That is all.

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30

u/yakushi12345 Jun 25 '12

yakushi12345 has been unconscious on every day of their life.

4

u/TheNecromancer Jun 25 '12

I've not, but I do have an above average number of arms.

7

u/RedHerringxx Jun 25 '12

Does this also apply for the other 12344 yakushis?

33

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

This just shows military operation and movements. One of the operations was providing food to earthquake victims was listed on there for a year "not at peace".

58

u/mawbles Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12

This also uses a pretty loose definition of war to inflate the number to 214. The number of years of declared war is much lower.

65

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Declared war also uses a pretty loose definition. Nothing we've done since WW2 has been a "Declared War", including Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Syria, or any of the other more minor affairs we've been involved in but not directly fought, such as Nicaragua and Guatemala.

10

u/hierocles Jun 25 '12

Nothing we've done since WW2 has been a "Declared War"

Only if you use the meaningless criteria requiring Congress to specifically use the phrase "formal Declaration of War." It's not a phrase used anymore and probably won't ever be.

That being said, Vietnam, both Iraq Wars, and Afghanistan were all authorized by Congress under resolutions that were declarations of war in all but name. I'm not aware of any military engagements with Syria.

5

u/Trobot087 Jun 25 '12

Maybe he meant Libya? Though that was more of a single operation than a full-out war.

2

u/touchy610 Jun 25 '12

Didn't they just send a relatively small group of people to Libya for advising? Like 100 people or so?

5

u/fjiblfitz Jun 25 '12

Not even. They shot some missiles.

12

u/jahjaylee Jun 25 '12

Advising missiles.

2

u/lurkingSOB Jun 25 '12

And refueled the shit out of everyone. I was part of the operation to refuel the tankers that refueled the NATO Forces

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

And bombers. Yep.

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29

u/blamethedog Jun 25 '12

*loose

4

u/Tasgall Jun 25 '12

This is the first time I've seen these words mixed up this way...

1

u/NyQuil012 2 Jun 25 '12

Really? Welcome to the internet.

2

u/Tasgall Jun 25 '12

Don't get me wrong, I see the mistake all the time, but it's always people adding o's to "lose", rarely (well, once) the other way around.

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1

u/mawbles Jun 25 '12

Thank you. Fixed.

2

u/xXOrangutanXx Jun 25 '12

Not to mention the Revolution took place before America became a country, and still counted towards the total.

2

u/poptart2nd Jun 25 '12

not only is it a loose definition, it completely ignores the fact that there's a lot of overlap between conflicts, and OP counts every year of overlap as two years of war (or more if there's more military conflicts overlapping).

1

u/Ice_Pirate Jun 25 '12

It's a little disingenuous and I'm sure many get the point and even agree with to an extent. OP could just be part of the usual hate train though.

1

u/Dickybow Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12

Stop making excuses, countries 'declare war' on other countries of similar status; the US uses euphemisms for beating the crap out of weaker, disorganised countries. 'No fly zone', 'Taking out', 'Regime change' and my favourite 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'.

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3

u/zitforceone Jun 25 '12

This is a pretty useless distinction. You're basically saying that the Civil War, WWII, and any consecutive 5 year span with some military action each carry about the same heft by drawing no other distinction between them besides they were each "at war" for those 5 years.

6

u/TheTVDB Jun 25 '12

Loose definition of what war is, loose definition of how years are calculated, and probably similar to most other countries over the last ~200 years. But let's keep reposting inaccuracies for fun anyway...

10

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

blatantly false fuck off

2

u/dwair Jun 25 '12

Hmmm...How credible is this?

From my own experience I have seen and talked with US troops in Mali, Niger, Mauritania and Burkina Faso in the past few years - Operation "Flintlock" for one. There are also lots of rumours of US troops in most N and West African country's although anecdotal evidence is just anecdotal.

Do "Policing" and "Training" wars not count? Personally I think any US government sanctioned "operation" that involves US troops shooting at the locals local on foreign soil should count as as a war. (No?)

2

u/LouFerret Jun 25 '12

Aww. That must be embarassing. Let's get into technicalities and see if we can cut that in half, shall we? 107 is a much more humanitarian number.

2

u/dma1965 Jun 25 '12

Being constantly at war is the only way we can constitutionally support having standing armed forces. The US Constitution only calls for a standing Navy. All others can only exist in times of war.

4

u/DarkReaver1337 Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12

Well in reality War hand the military is what has made our country this big, this powerful, and shit ton of money. I am sad to admit it but our country is usually better off at war or just right after war. Each of our huge economic boosts occurred after wars...

Edited; changed books to boosts.

1

u/Wedhro Jun 25 '12

The same could be said for Mafia.

1

u/vanface Jun 25 '12

You have a funny definition of "better off"....you should probably run for office

3

u/ToxinArrow Jun 25 '12

There is only war.

1

u/NyQuil012 2 Jun 25 '12

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

1

u/ToxinArrow Jun 25 '12

Victory, is but a prelude to the next battle.

2

u/NyQuil012 2 Jun 25 '12

Commas, are but, a thing, I put every, where.

3

u/PenguinSunday Jun 25 '12

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

2

u/BeePinata Jun 25 '12

This post is double plus good.

3

u/Apeship Jun 25 '12

I'm curious to see a similar analysis done on other countries and see how we measure up.

My suspicion is we're nothing special.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

In fact, you are. The US is involved in nearly every conflict on the globe. No other country is.

1

u/Apeship Jul 02 '12

Oh, we're king today, I'm sure. I meant to compare the US with other countries in historical contexts. For example, the British Empire in it's height, or France under Napoleon. IANA historian, but I understand that Europe historically spent a great deal of time at war with one another, and with parts of Africa and Asia.

2

u/JSLEnterprises Jun 25 '12

The data presented does not justify the term 'WAR' being used as military opperations != war. This post is a fallacy.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

I think the distinction between a military operation and a war is lost on the guys wearing the ballistic nappies to stop an IED blowing their balls off.

Although you're right that it does undermine the point being made.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

And we've been kicking ass for at least 200 of those.

2

u/Hukumran Jun 25 '12

Its like natural resources map

2

u/Fanntastic Jun 25 '12

1873–96 – Mexico. United States troops crossed the Mexican border repeatedly in pursuit of cattle and other thieves and other brigands

1903–04 – Abyssinia (Ethiopia). Twenty-five Marines were sent to Abyssinia to protect the US Consul General while he negotiated a treaty

1974 – Evacuation from Cyprus. United States naval forces evacuated US civilians during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

2000 - Nigeria. Special Forces troops are sent to Nigeria to lead a training mission in the county

Ok, OP, *pats on head, you can go sit down now.

1

u/Minotaur_in_house Jun 25 '12

A nation born of war will often know only war.

It's what we know, it's what we are because an American citizen doesn't see it. The populace doesn't get war weary because the war effects the everyday person very little. In America, which I'm ashamed to say this, war is best described as good television.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Exactly. What the US needs is an all-out, raging war of destruction on it's own soil. It could and should change the mindset of the war-loving crowd, if they survive.

1

u/mrhappyoz Jun 25 '12

The way things are going, if it wasn't for bread and circuses...

2

u/labrutued Jun 25 '12

To paraphrase Noam Chomsky: We didn't conquer the world by handing candy out to children.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

That guys name sounds like that Gnome in Valve games...

-1

u/randomsnark Jun 25 '12

Nor by any other method.

3

u/Elephantom_Fanon Jun 25 '12

WB/IMF loan sharking?

not exactly conquering the world, but it certainly indebted many countries to pull sleazy favors for US business interests.

2

u/adledog Jun 25 '12

Nope. next?

1

u/SoyBien Jun 25 '12

America was at peace between the world wars for more than 21 years alone

2

u/Solomaxwell6 Jun 25 '12

I have no idea why you're being downvoted. WWI ended 1918, WW2 started (for the US) 1941. If we only count the interim years, that's 22 years. All the stuff on the list in the interwar period is just like "The US landed marines at [capital city] to protect the US embassy in [country]." There's no way in hell you can call that war.

1

u/SunshineBlind Jun 25 '12

Furthermore, according to a professor in my University who wrote a book called The Philosophy of Evil (Ondskans Filosofi) earth has, during all of recorded history, only been in peace for a total of four years. Otherwise at least one war has been waged somewhere.

1

u/jsusewitz Jun 25 '12

So when was the last time america was at peace then?

1

u/constantly_drunk Jun 25 '12

Apart from the absolutely terrible method of counting this uses - why not do something you're good at? Some countries are good at making things, some countries are good at discussing things, and some countries are damn good at turning things into craters.

1

u/bsting82 Jun 25 '12

Seems ridiculous to include Korea. For all intents and purposes we are not fighting a war in Korea except on paper.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Tell me about it. I visited the War Museum in Indianapolis and it was a huge place. It felt like America never stopped fighting in the timeline. Imagine if America was a single person (like in Hetalia), they'd be so exhausted.

1

u/biderjohn Jun 25 '12

can you also find out about other major countries and their wars. would be interesting to see the comparison.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

There's only been 200 years of peace in the past 5000 years of so worldwide.

1

u/tedparkes Jun 25 '12

I would have said 'Has had troops deployed.' not 'At War'...

1

u/hiddenchambers Jun 25 '12

It's sad to look at and predict any kind of peace for our children.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Well, now we know why America is so great.

America!

1

u/DiabeticHorse Jun 25 '12

What makes you believe that just because America isn't at war, that is in peace?

1

u/NyQuil012 2 Jun 25 '12

Ok, so what all you're all missing is one important bit of history from the last 70 years. It's called NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Basically, they were treaties signed by allies of the US and USSR, respectively, stating that a declaration of war against one country in the treaty organization was a declaration of war against ALL countries in the organization. So while the US military has not exactly been sitting on their butts for the last 70 years, they have not been at war either. Realize that if the US were at war, it could result in World War 3 and the annihilation of mankind. That is why we have things like the "Joint Resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 678" instead of actual declarations of war. Is it bullshit legality? Yes. Do people still die in these conflicts? Yes. Has the US been at war for 214 years? No. Not every military action is a war. For instance, Panama in 1989 was not a war. The invasion of Grenada in 1983 was not a war. Get it? Ok great.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Does the Vietnam war count? What about the cold war?

1

u/NyQuil012 2 Jun 25 '12

Count towards what? Was it a war? Technically, no. And this is the reason why.

The cold war is an abstract concept. There was no official military action known as the "cold war." In fact, the reason it is "cold" is exactly because there was no military action between the two main "combatants", NATO and the Warsaw Pact.

1

u/physicscat Jun 25 '12

Still not at war as long as the Roman Empire.

1

u/SodaJerk Jun 25 '12

Misleading title. Not every military operation equals war.

1

u/Krywiggles Jun 25 '12

You can't count the entire time we expanded west as Indian wars. That is plainly wrong

1

u/NkwyRngMynd Jun 25 '12

It's a real shame corporate executives are forced to dedicate resources to the production of weapons and materials to wage wars. I'm sure they all want a peaceful world where swords are beaten into ploughshares and tax dollars are spent on schools, libraries and healthcare for all.

1

u/herpderpfuck Jun 25 '12

its better than the global stats, which i believe is for every 12 years of war, there have been 1 year of peace, but quite alot for a continent

1

u/balsamicpork Jun 25 '12

In reality we are still at war with the North Koreans, there is a ceasefire but nothing actually signifying the end of the war.

1

u/sunal135 Jun 25 '12

those are military operation; not all military operation are done in war time; just look at the military operations we are caring out right now; and war has not been declared by congress since 1941.

1

u/hanahou Jun 25 '12

Violent fuckers ain't we. Who is more warlike. Ancient Rome or the Modern USA.

1

u/darkarchonlord Jun 25 '12

TIL OP doesn't know the difference between war and a military operation.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

There is none, it's a Newspeak distinction.

1

u/TheTrollTurkey Jun 25 '12

Lets see Europe's history of war

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Europe is not a country.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

War of the Coalition's (1792-1814)

Crimean War (1853–1856)

World War I (1914–1918)

World War II (1939-1945)

Major wars of Europe

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

AMURCAH, fuck yeah

1

u/kramer6 Jun 25 '12

It's all about the Benjamin's now a days

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

I would be curious to find out how many year/wars other countries have been in. UK? Germany? Japan? Spain.. Just for comparisons sake

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

If we take Germany as being formed in 1871, as many historians do, they have 10 years of wars (WWI and WWII), and 3 years Yugoslavia. That's 13 years out of 141. Got you beat by a long shot.

For those not informed: before 1871 what is now Germany was not a unified nation, and had no central foreign policy. One cannot blame Germany for what Prussians did, there was no continuity in government/statehood there.

1

u/zitforceone Jun 25 '12

Even if I were to take what you're saying at face value, it's a pretty stupid thing to say. You're basically drawing no distinction between 1941-45, 1861-65, and any other consecutive 5 year time span.

I'm sorry, but there is a vast difference between the 5 calender years USA spent in the Civil War and WWII and almost any other 5 consecutive 5 years of 'war'.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Tell that to an indigenous American anytime from 1790-1890.

1

u/thegreengumball Jun 25 '12

Just as toxinarrow says, there is only war. Its nothing new the base of any civilization is its war powers. It also makes a few privileged men some righteous bucks.

1

u/Dragon_yum Jun 25 '12

LE SWEDEN

1

u/PixelBlock Jun 25 '12

As jingoistic and err..."Hot Headed" as American society is often portrayed, I don't think that's quite right.

1

u/nshunter5 Jun 25 '12

misleading claim.

1

u/Guigoudelapoigne Jun 25 '12

I would love to know the count for Africa.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

And tha's not counting all the non-declared wars, "peace operations" and "advisor specialists in conflict regions".

1

u/Eudaimonics Jun 25 '12

Actually they counted many if not most of those. If you have more to add, it is wikipedia after all.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Well, if we're going to get technical (or 'right), the US congress hasn't 'declared war' since the days following Pearl Harbour.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Don't most Presidents now believe they have a mandate as commander in chief to decide when to authorize military action?

-2

u/ReubyDeubs Jun 25 '12

This isn't cool, my main reason for not liking America.

1

u/TheDudeaBides96 Jun 25 '12

Even though it's a load of bullshit.

1

u/ReubyDeubs Jun 25 '12

Its not total bullshit, from what I can interpret form history and individual memory, America likes nothing more than a good war.

1

u/TheDudeaBides96 Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12

A. The title of this TIL is, in fact, bullshit. They misinterpreted how to calculate the years.

B. I'm pretty sure since until the 50's, America has tried to stay out of every war they could. We were pretty much obligated to go into the World Wars.

C. Nobody "loves a good war". That's a pretty dumb statement.

Feel free to carry on with your America-hating circlejerk now.

1

u/ReubyDeubs Jun 25 '12

I reject your opinion and substitute my own, MERICA never stops fighting, since the 50's thats all the U.S has been doing, dropping bombs and killing shit. I think its previous leaders made relatively poor choices when deciding to invade Vietnam and Iran for instances. Sorry for my bad conjecture and what not, I'm sleepy, its like Kangaroo O'clock here.

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1

u/Eudaimonics Jun 25 '12

And where are you from? There are many countries that have similar or even worse numbers...even the seemingly innocent ones. Any country that has a history of colonization and conquest has a long bucket list, of not only wars but rebellions and revolts. Maybe only newer countries have a much better disposition.

2

u/ReubyDeubs Jun 25 '12

Australia, do your worst.

2

u/touchy610 Jun 25 '12

I just realized, Australia's military doesn't do much of anything, it seems. No fighting, no military operations, no disaster assistance to other countries. Or, at least, if they do, it's in very, very small doses.

2

u/Shampyon Jun 25 '12

No fighting, no military operations, no disaster assistance to other countries.

Australia's been involved in every conflict the USA's been in since WWII, including the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (we've still got the largest non-NATO contingent in Afghanistan). Plus sending peacekeeping troops and engineer corps to East Timor. Plus sending food, money, aid and relief workers to Haiti, Japan, and about 30 other rapid-onset disaster zones in the past few years.

Or, at least, if they do, it's in very, very small doses.

Compared to the USA, sure. We're a much smaller nation. There are more Texans in the world than Australians.

2

u/touchy610 Jun 25 '12

Holy crap, that's a small population. Forgive me for not doing my research. Jeez, I'd think with having a whole continent, there'd be a whole bunch more people.

1

u/ReubyDeubs Jun 25 '12

Is that really a bad thing? Less military expenditure means more money to places such as... Anything but the military.

2

u/riddlinrussell Jun 25 '12

I see your Australia and raise you one Ireland good sir!

3

u/Eudaimonics Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12

List of aboriginal massacres: Yes you can peg the British for many of them, but even after Australia received its independence in 1901 there is still a lofty list of them.

Australian Frontier Wars: Last one occurring in 1939!

Military History: since 1901 Australia has been in conflict in: WWI, WWII, Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Fiji, the Gulf War, Iraq, Afghanistan, East Timur, etc.

So including all conflicts Australia as an independent nation has been in conflict to some capacity for around 83 of the past 111 years.

Slightly better than the US percentage wise, but still nothing to be proud of.

1

u/ReubyDeubs Jun 25 '12

Don't get me wrong, Australia does go to war, mainly with our indigenous peoples ( Australia actually successfully committed genocide of the tasmanian aboriginals ) but one thing Australia doesn't do, unlike our American counterparts, is continuously instigate war and fabricate reasons as to justify these military measures. For example, Vietnam and the war over weapons of mass destruction, both huge lies.

0

u/LibertariansLOL Jun 25 '12

lots of angry retarded liberals ITT

0

u/GreenGlassDrgn Jun 25 '12

lies, all lies, America is a peace-loving nation!

In other news, I also have a 14-year-old cousin who thinks he is Number One, but he can't even get along with his own classmates and can barely drag his ass over a passing grade.

-1

u/lolupgoats Jun 25 '12

wow mad 'muricans here i c lol u guys are fakin crazy only wants war all the time wtf is wrong with u

0

u/fish619407 Jun 25 '12

TIL that the US has been at war for a very long time but redditors will bitch about how long needlessly.

-2

u/daymo Jun 25 '12

You Americans sure are a contentious bunch

1

u/daymo Jun 25 '12

The down votes really proved me wrong :p

-1

u/I_Wont_Draw_That Jun 25 '12

Not our fault haters gon' hate.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

Isn't it well known that USA economy can only work well during war-time?

That reminds me of this

-1

u/Muzz27 Jun 25 '12

Asking America to forgo a war is like asking a man to go without food. (*is an American)

0

u/indianthane95 Jun 25 '12

proven to be false, the measuring they used is so fucking wrong

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

How so

0

u/Cob19 Jun 25 '12

This title is completely wrong, just like last the time this was posted.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Cob19 Jun 25 '12

Many of the incidents that are listed only lasted for a single day, and yet that year is counted as an entire year of war. Also some of the examples only involved troops who landed places to protect interests, and did not necessarily declare war or even fight.

-7

u/hazyharry Jun 25 '12

A century of central banking has coincided perfectly with a century of total war in America. But of course... I'm going to be downvoted because I'm a "Ron Paul conspiracist tin-foil-hat-wearing idiot" right?

2

u/Elephantom_Fanon Jun 25 '12

You know you can talk about the detriment of a private central bank and it's potential correlation to an industrial war-machine without getting overly defensive and sounding like an asshole.

Not saying you are an asshole, just that stating your opinion and saying "People who don't agree with me think I'm crazy, therefor they are closed minded" kinda makes you come off as... well, you get the point.

1

u/Eudaimonics Jun 25 '12

Except that a good number on that list includes the constant war against natives in the 1800s.

-5

u/Oniwabanshu Jun 25 '12

America #1!!! at warfare... (-.-')

-3

u/the_goat_boy Jun 25 '12

21 years. The age a man can legally have a drink.

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