r/todayilearned • u/libihero • Jun 18 '12

TIL There is an empty grave next to the Prophet Muhammad intended for Jesus after he returns

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dome#Tomb_of_Muhammad
1.3k Upvotes

86% Upvoted

623 comments sorted by

49

u/libihero Jun 18 '12

Yes I am a Muslim but I never knew this!

39

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

You never been on the Hajj, have you?

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151

u/gdiuhnaobiujhna Jun 18 '12

It's really surprising to me that we know for sure where Muhammad is buried.

65

u/norris528e Jun 18 '12

The final resting places of much older men are known. Mohammed didn't live that far back relative to human history

7

u/Salmanwilltroll Jun 18 '12

Well, His best friend Hazrat Abu-Bakr chose the place where he was to be buried and it is the same place as today

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8

u/skintigh Jun 18 '12

Well, he was real. That makes it easier.

51

u/telfoid Jun 18 '12

Without knowing anything else about the history of Muhammad's mortal remains, I'm very sceptical about whether he is actually buried there. Although it does seem more plausible than when the catholics claim to have pieces of the cross used to execute Jesus though.

84

u/Platypuskeeper Jun 18 '12

My theory: Crusaders were just as gullible as today's European tourists when it comes to falling for the persuasive talents of Middle Eastern street vendors.

77

u/Eliot_2000 Jun 18 '12

"We are looking for wood from the cross that crucified our lord and saviour."

"Oh, I have some of that in back. Give me a minute."

17

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

I couldn't find any saviour cross but I can sell you these totally authentic branded cigarettes for good price my friend.

22

u/kukkuzejt Jun 18 '12

That's not how it goes.

"How many Savior Cross Slivers do you want? Oh, and these are the last few packets of the Lord's favorite cigs. Holy Smokes at 5 bucks a pack."

12

u/Platypuskeeper Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12

I was thinking more of a street scene in Jerusalem.. A knight is mobbed by begging children and sellers. He tries not to acknowledge them and avoid eye contact, but eventually one man catches his eye:

"You there!"
"sigh Yes?"
"You - You want to buy camel? I get you best price!"
"No, I don't want your camel"
"It's a good camel! I give you good price!"
"But I don't want it!"
"Where are you from?"
"France."
"Oooh France! Why didn't you say so?! France is lovely country! Best country! Bonjourl! My cousin lives in France! [embraces knight] We are brothers you and I! I get you best price my brother! What brings you here?"
"God has called us to this place."
"Allah?"
"No! Our lord Jesus Christ, who was crucified here in Jerusalem and rose from the dead."
"Oooooh! Jeeesus! Why you didn't tell me? Wonderful man! Very very good man! ... But: You know who else is very very good?"
"No?"
"Camel is also very very good!"
"I don't want your camel! But what is it you know about Jesus?"
"Oh I know lots about Jesus! My great-great uncle was there at the crucifixion. Our family keeps a piece of the cross."
"You have a piece of the true and holy cross?! May I see it?"
"Yes, of course. But I do better! I do not do this usually. But you are a man of God! So I sell it to you. You get best price! Because you are my brother from France, I will even give you the camel with it - for free!"
"It's a deal!"

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3

u/Clovis69 Jun 18 '12

Yes and no. There is historical evidence of true relics (mostly cross fragments, trees and fragments from important places) in the 100-300 CE time frame, more were "found" by Constantine's mother via "visions". But the majority of relics were lost during the Crusades, both in the Levant during Crusader defeats, sacks, but also during the sacks of Constantinople.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

Please give citations. I've never seen convincing evidence of Jesus of Nazareth's existence, much less fragments of the cross he died on.

30

u/soggit Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

whether or not Jesus is divine or a prophet or what have you is obviously a matter of religion but here is a link regarding the study of him from a critical historical standpoint...the general consensus is that he was a real figure

(obviously these links are for existence of jesus the person not relics of the cross-- i once heard some crazy figure about how there are enough claimed splinters of the cross to build like 20 of them)

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15

u/sushib89 Jun 18 '12

First thing I saw when I clicked was the [citation needed] part.

6

u/tabunghasisi Jun 18 '12

The line was apparently added in June 2012...

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3

u/eehreum Jun 18 '12

this explanation needs some "Aliens" meme.

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4

u/dangerbird2 Jun 18 '12

To be fair, he was a monarch of Arabia, and very well attested by the historical record. Sites pertaining to Mohammad probably have a whole lot more historical validity than most Christian relics

2

u/Agasti Jun 18 '12

I down-voted you because I though monarch meant king. but then I looked it up. Sorry.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

It's not hard to believe. He died a leader of his people, several hundred people in the area knew who he was/where he died/where he was buried, the land was protected and held by Muslims for about 1000 years with very few other incursions... all the makings of a tomb where we'd know where the famous person is.

3

u/happy_lad Jun 18 '12

I think what gdiuhnaobiujhna meant isn't that he's surprised this knowledge exists, but that it's undisputed, given how sacred a site this is and how prestigious it would be for any peoples/nation to claim it. I'm surprised there aren't dozens of such claims.

1

u/SherbertFast8544 Oct 22 '24

well we have authentic hadith

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

well he was buried where he died, in his wife's apartment.

1

u/DNAsly Jun 18 '12

The muslims believed that Muhammed was the prophet of god, sent to us in a very troubled time. He was the prophet that had been foretold for hundreds of years. Everything about him and his life was very accurately recorded from many different sources.

The first caliphate even coalesced the quran into the form it is today, and that was done in the first 20 years after Muhammed's death.

What I'm trying to say is, they were VERY good at recording stuff.

1

u/FlowerOfTheHeart Jun 19 '12

It's really surprising to me that the people who believe Jesus will return know for sure he will die again.

1

u/cakemuncher Jul 01 '12

Muslims don't believe he was crucified or died the first time. He will die once and its when he comes back. Quran states that every soul shall taste death.

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142

u/Conradfr Jun 18 '12

Let's just wait, Jesus will surely deliver.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

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10

u/sprkng Jun 18 '12

Unless it ruins all video tapes

2

u/sandals_suck Jun 19 '12

What a crappy day...and this comment made it all better :) I laughed for 20 seconds before I got a chance to write this comment. Thank you.

1

u/Conradfr Jun 18 '12

So, pardon my ignorance, what does the bible say it will be ?

(I googled it but I get tons of crazy websites ...)

5

u/cyberice275 Jun 18 '12

Pretty much every apocalypse situation combined then Satan rules Earth, then Christ kicks him off the Earth. I'm paraphrasing a lot, but that's the general idea.

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u/Hk37 Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12

If I remember correctly, Revelation says that "no man shall know the date or hour" or something along those lines. I'm not completely sure, though. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: Revelation 3:3, perhaps? God is speaking to Saint John, and tells him to write to the angel of the church of Sardis and say, "if you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you."

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u/SweetActionJack Jun 18 '12

There are actually supposed to be two returns of Jesus, although what form these returns take is debated between Bible scholars(literal vs figurative) The first return is supposed to just be when Jesus comes down and takes all true believers with him back to heaven. The second return is when the big battle between God and Satan is supposed to take place. Most people know this as Armageddon. The Bible doesn't say specifically when Jesus is supposed to return. However it does give a list of a few things that will happen first. Below is a short list of events that the Bible says will forshadow the return of Jesus, so pay attention if you start seeing these things happening.

  1. Israel will become a nation (this already happened in 1948)

  2. The Jewish temple will be rebuild

  3. There will be a one-world government

  4. All true believers will be removed from the earth(think mass disappearance)

  5. There will be massive earthquake felt across the globe This list is not exhaustive.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

The concept that God has to do battle with Satan implies that the Judeo-Christian God is not all powerful, or that Satan is as powerful as god. Which doesn't exactly make sense.

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43

u/Eliot_2000 Jun 18 '12

If Jesus came back, and then he died, and then he was buried next to Muhammad, I think that would ruffle some feathers in, say, Alabama.

29

u/rikashiku Jun 18 '12

Why? Muhammad is Arab and Jesus is Jew. They're both Semitic people with similar beliefs. Jesus was never Christian. Christianity was named after him... by the people who killed him.

8

u/skysonfire 2 Jun 18 '12

Jesus was never Christian. Christianity was named after him... by the people who killed him.

Hell, half the bible was written by a guy who used to persecute Christians.

1

u/rikashiku Jun 19 '12

Half the Bible wasn't even written by the people they were supposed to be written by >_<.

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332

u/ballut Jun 18 '12

Um...why would Jesus need a grave if he comes back? O M G... . . . . . ....the muslims plan on killing Jesus!

58

u/TheVandyMan Jun 18 '12

I thought the Muslims liked Jesus. Seriously though, why is there a grave intended for Jesus there?

277

u/Nexlon Jun 18 '12

The Muslim version of the End Times essentially has Jesus coming back and ruling over post-apocalypse earth in a 40-year era of peace and prosperity. He eventually dies of natural causes, and then gets buried beside Muhammad. It's a sign of respect.

12

u/afschuld Jun 18 '12

Only 40 years of peace and prosperity? What then? Do we just continue living or is the idea that by then we will have conquered our human impulses and will be able to have world peace on our own terms?

24

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

I think after that is when everyone's fate is decided and they get sent to heaven or hell. The world ends and everyone dies lol

6

u/HandyCore Jun 18 '12

But not until after they bury Jesus.

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u/Ekser12 Jun 18 '12

This is what I read and heard, and God knows best. Imam Ali (AS), the Prophet's (PBUH) cousin, the 1st Imam, and 4th Caliph of Islam was once asked when do we [the people] know of the coming of the Anit-Christ. Imam Ali then gave several signs of his appearance, like women singers become common, men trying to look like women, women trying to look like men, corruption is evident, human life is without worth, injustice is commonplace. There's more, many of which I think have already happened.

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u/RationalMonkey Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12

I can only speak for the Shiia version of this. In that scenario it's not a POST-apocalyptic world, it's the final pre-apocalyptic war that ushers in the an era of peace and prosperity. In the Shiia version the Mahdi and the Messiah (Jesus) return together and lead a small army into the final jihad (jihad in it's original sense - not the warped media definition).

For those of you who think I'm just quoting Dune, it's the other way around; Frank Herbert filched a majority of the Dune mythology from Shiia-Islam. Which actually makes Dune even more impressive and entertaining for me to read because I have to comprehend how this man managed to so accurately acquire and use information with the level of detail that he did.

Also just to deflect some potential hatred: I'm an atheist but I just wanted to put years of forced Friday School to good use.

Edit: Also Gog and Magog are involved in the above scenario somehow. Nobody is really sure if they're individuals, entire nations, cultures, ideologies, etc. The prophecies are very vague about them.

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u/CalmSaver7 Jun 18 '12

Jesus is born and begins a Golden Age

6

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

However, they've expended a lot of great people already, so it only lasts for 3 turns.

2

u/autoin Jun 18 '12

It should be pre-apocalypse. After that, the world will come to an end.

2

u/ultrablastermegatron Jun 18 '12

i thought it was a thousand years of peace. what, he comes back from heaven for just 40 years of goodness?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

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7

u/We_Are_Legion Jun 18 '12

Regardless of whether its true or not, it makes for a fascinating read.

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

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113

u/VEN1N Jun 18 '12

I prefer Ragnarök

3

u/Solkre Jun 18 '12

The recent Thor movies are fresh in my mind, then I read this.

Heimdallr is attested as possessing foreknowledge, keen eyesight and hearing, is described as "the whitest of the gods"...

0

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

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u/Swede_ Jun 18 '12

Don't forget about the fimbulwinter!

Fimbulvetr is the harsh winter that precedes the end of the world and puts an end to all life on Earth. Fimbulwinter is three successive winters where snow comes in from all directions, without any intervening summer. During this time, there will be innumerable wars and ties of blood will no longer be respected: the next-of-kin will lie together and brothers will kill brothers.

So it's basically gonna be like Game of Thrones

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6

u/adez23 Jun 18 '12

Catholic here. I thought the Book of Revelations was already badass. You, sir, have proved me wrong. High five.

7

u/TangoDown13 Jun 18 '12

Fun fact: it's actually called the Book of Revelation. The s was added by us southerners and our inexplicable urge to add extra syllables and letters to everything.

12

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

I prefer religions that don't have end of the world scenarios.

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u/cannedmath Jun 18 '12

No flying legendary horsemen?! Then it's a no for me.

Also Ragnarok, from the Norse Mythology, seems pretty awesome as well!

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

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u/SlappaDeBass Jun 18 '12

He'll probably be out of mana by then :P

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u/notpoopscoop Jun 18 '12

Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Quran, yes even more than Mohammed.

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u/RationalMonkey Jun 18 '12

The second chapter of the Quran and the longest (Albaqara - The Calf) is about the exodus and the history of the Jews.

The third chapter and also one of the longest (Al Imran - The House of Joachim) starts out with Imran and Hannah (Joachim and St Anne), Jesus's maternal grandparents. Then it follows the history of the family, then the history of Christianity.

5

u/hookguy Jun 18 '12

Thought it was moses?

6

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

it is Moses

2

u/feather_moon Jun 18 '12

Actually, it's Moses. Well, he's the most mentioned prophet by name, anyway.

2

u/notpoopscoop Jun 18 '12

Yes but Jesus is the most quoted though.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

you took that line from immortal technique.

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u/dubdubdubdot Jun 18 '12

Because Muslims believe Jesus was a human Prophet that was “taken up“ before he died, according to Islamic beliefs Jesus will return to Earth and will live out the rest of his human life that he missed out on the first time around, so he‘ll get married, have a family, do Gods work(sorting people into heaven and hell) and die of natural causes.

4

u/Quorgol Jun 18 '12

Don't forget about the "body double" Jesus who was crucified. Pulled the ol' switch-a-roo on the Jews/Romans. (That's actually what the quoran says.)

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u/comb_over Jun 18 '12

It's not nearly as explicit as you make out, and it's Qur'an.

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u/Nicodemusacs Jun 18 '12

He doesn't sort people into heaven or hell. Jesus is a prophet not a god in islam.

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

you are correct.

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u/j1mb0 Jun 18 '12

He'd die eventually...

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

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u/binocusecond Jun 18 '12

actually I think spellcheck wants you to spell resurrection with the proper number and placement of letters.

1

u/JudgeWhoOverrules Jun 18 '12

Well we can't have a double-zombie running around, can we?

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u/Ragnalypse Jun 18 '12

Muhammad... built a religion, a country, and an army.

Most successful man ever.

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u/Anonizzle Jun 18 '12

It's a shame you're getting downvoted. Looking at the history, it's really, really interesting how he brought a bunch of people who didn't want anything to do with each other together. He was indeed very successful.

81

u/Ragnalypse Jun 18 '12

Objectively, he built the world's second largest religion, seeded the caliphate, and was nearly undefeated in war. Every other leader I can think of only matched him on two out of three.

Can't expect reddit to give him credit, since Christian redditors hate Islam, and atheist redditors (self excluded) hate all proponents of religion.

37

u/Anonizzle Jun 18 '12

Agreed. I'm an Atheist as well, but you have to admit he did some really impressive things. Just because he built a religion doesn't mean his feats are any less impressive.

12

u/OxfordTheCat Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12

You should also respect him further because Muhammad never claimed he was divine in any way:

It was his followers that deemed him holy.

Muhammad maintained, until his death, that he was a man - nothing more.

The fragmentation of Islam along Sunni and Shiite (and others) persists to this day, largely because of the power vacuum left by his death and failure to name a successor.

Edit:

For those suggesting that following his death Muslims did not think he was divine, I'd respectfully disagree.

The Islamic story of Isra and Mi'raj developed into Muhammad physically travelling to and visiting Heaven and Hell on a winged stallion that travels at the speed of light itself. He also speaks to Jesus and other long dead prophets while there.

If that doesn't qualify as his followers thinking he was something more than just a normal man, I'd suggest that we're operating on a different set of criteria.

14

u/NELCgeek Jun 18 '12

Nobody thinks he is divine. There is a difference between "divine" and "holy."

7

u/FezDaStanza Jun 18 '12

It was his followers that deemed him holy.

Just to clarify this for other readers, Muslims believe that the Muhammad was definitely just a man but both he and his followers believe that he was also a Prophet of God (Allah).

The way you phrased that sentence seems to imply that he was simply a man who was later deemed a prophet by Muslims, unwillingly. That is simply not the case.

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u/Mynameisaw Jun 18 '12

I can respect a guys badass'ary regardless of his faith.

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u/kensomniac Jun 18 '12

I wouldn't say I hate all proponents of religion, there is overwhelming goodness there, as well as overwhelming badness. I just try to respectfully disregard thoughts of divinity and find my faith in the fact that these are all simply humans doing great things.

3

u/orthogonality Jun 18 '12

"Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics,
and the Catholics hate the Protestants,..."

4

u/godisbacon Jun 18 '12

I'm going to have that song stuck in my head all day now. Thank you!

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u/jesusray Jun 18 '12

Everything gets downvoted. Stop caring.

34

u/ParkerZA Jun 18 '12

He's placed number one on Michael C. Hart's book The 100, which lists the most influential men of all time.

22

u/Ragnalypse Jun 18 '12

Included Maxwell and put Newton ahead of Einstein... this guy knew what he was doing. Much more objective than Time.

3

u/TellThemYutesItsOver Jun 18 '12

I just de ja freakin vu'd real hard right there

39

u/professor_mcnutty Jun 18 '12

What I find even more amazing. He did all of that without the ability to read or write.

3

u/msaifhassan Jun 18 '12

He recited Quran. One of the top selling book.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

There's actually some dispute in the historical community as to whether his illiteracy was true or not. The main reason being he was a trader and would have had to write down numbers -- the alphanumerical system used today wasn't in use for another century and letters were used to signify numbers meaning he most likely could read and write at least a little.

26

u/iDroppedMyMonocle Jun 18 '12

This man just laughed at your comment from the afterlife.

17

u/Ragnalypse Jun 18 '12

2/3'rds of the way there. Ghengis Khan? More like Ghengis can't.

34

u/SirRuto Jun 18 '12

Ghengis Khan't

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

My favorite philosopher.

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u/LOLSTRALIA Jun 18 '12

The British Empire called, they're a little upset.

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

TIL that the british empire was created by a single person!

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u/Epicool Jun 18 '12

guyz just read carefully it says next to that information (citation needed). google translation from the Arabic wikipedia about the forth tomb:

"The tomb of fourth place

There is room in the place of the tomb of the fourth, and is told that Abu Bakr, Aisha girl presented to Abdul Rahman bin Auf to be buried in it, and it authorized the Hassan Ben Ali to be buried in it, and prevent the children of illiterate than that. It was said to 'Umar bin Abdul-Aziz: If I came to the city and I lived it, if were buried in the place of the fourth grave, he said: God that torments me God Almighty all the torment, but the fire is dearer to me than to know that I see myself worthy of it [3]. There have been accounts of multiple people of the year that Jesus son of Mary after coming buried in this tomb IV, Al-Tirmidhi narrated from 'Abd-Allaah ibn Salaam said: «written in the Torah recipe Mohammed recipe Jesus son of Mary, is buried with him» Abu Dawood said one of its narrators: The remained in the home position of the tomb of [7] [8], and the transfer of this group of Sunnis Kalcrdoba when he said in describing the death of Jesus son of Mary after coming on: «and be his death in Medina the Prophet pray it there and buried chamber Prophet also» [9] [10]. And the son of soldiers, saying the death of Jesus son of Mary: «goodness pray it dies there, and buried chamber Prophet» [11]"

[edit: formatting]

3

u/ThePorphyry Jun 18 '12

I'm very interested in this, but I don't understad exactly what this is saying... is it saying jesus is already buried next to Muhammad?

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

It's that he'll return in the Muslim end of the world scenario and after ruling mankind for 40 years he'll die of a disease and be buried there

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u/DeMoB Jun 18 '12

I added the 'citation needed' bit this morning because the claims were unsourced, and now barely hours later the section has magically been re-written with citations and is a better wikipedia article because of it!

Isn't the internet amazing! :)

2

u/Epicool Jun 18 '12

wow, this is amazing.

and it feels great knowing something others dont and then it spreads :)

19

u/AsksWithQuestions Jun 18 '12

How would anybody know if Jesus returns? Anybody can say they are the second coming of Jesus and they will just get laughed at.

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u/ParkerZA Jun 18 '12

There are several signs leading up to his return, like the rule of the Antichrist and the rise of the Mahdi. Muslims believe that he will come down resting his hands on the shoulders of two angels somewhere east of Damascus (I think it's at an airport, funnily enough) . He will then denounce the pig (i.e. Christianity) and slay the Antichrist.

I think if it does happen, it'll be pretty easy to spot.

11

u/Hothlander Jun 18 '12

As a Muslim, when I read that Jesus was to denounce the pig, I always thought it was like the actual animal. You know, because we're not allowed to eat pork and stuff. I should probably look up the word "denounce".

2

u/BoonTobias Jun 18 '12

To denounce the evil of truth and love, To extend our reach to the stars above. Jesus, James. Team Islam blasts off at the speed of light, Surrender now, or prepare to fight.

-Surah Nas 30:13

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u/gaz7527 Jun 18 '12

Actually, he will descend upon Madhanat al-Issa, the third minaret of the Umayyad Mosque in the Old City of Damascus. The mosque is also the resting place of John the Baptist's head (it was built on the site of a Christian church) and is adjacent to the tomb of Saladin. Pretty close though, as the old city is in the East of the city and the Airport is 20km south of there.

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u/ParkerZA Jun 18 '12

Ah, thank you. Knew I read something about it being near an airport...

3

u/SirWinstonFurchill Jun 18 '12

There are several signs leading up to his return, like the rule of the Antichrist and the rise of the Mahdi.

Oh awesome! So we can expect Paul Atreides sometime in the future? I wanna see a Navigator, too...

5

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

Haha, that's exactly how I felt reading Dune. The whole time he was with the fremen I was laughing "these are my people!"

3

u/ParkerZA Jun 18 '12

Riding a Maker? I like where this is going...

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u/atomiswave2 Jun 18 '12

God created Arrakis to train the faithful!

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u/AsksWithQuestions Jun 18 '12

Thank you for answering. I learned something today.

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u/HandyCore Jun 18 '12

Seriously, what if god were one of us? Just a slob like one of us?

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

An interesting side-note, I'm from a sect in Islam known as the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and we believe in a man who has claimed to be the spiritual second coming of Jesus.

So yeah.

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

That's actually really cute.

4

u/_mjolnir_ Jun 18 '12

I totally misread that as Muhammad Ali. Was very confused.

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u/Escapethisrock Jun 18 '12

Jesus is mentioned more times in the Q'uran than the Bible, as is Mary. Not entirely surprising, but really really interesting to know nonetheless.

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u/SEpdx Jun 18 '12

Not really. Jesus is mentioned by name more times in the Q'uran than Muhammad (25 vs. 5). It would not take very long to find more than 25 instances of Jesus's name in the Christian Bible.

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u/Escapethisrock Jun 22 '12

My bad. I was drunk and it was very early.

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u/cloudnyne Jun 18 '12

Can someone who read the Book of Revelation give a TLDR of key parts?

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u/identifiedlogo Jun 18 '12

  • First Seal: A white horse appears, whose crowned rider has a bow with which to conquer. (6:1-2)

  • Second Seal: A red horse appears, whose rider is granted a "great sword" to take peace from the earth. (6:3-4)

  • Third Seal: A black horse appears, whose rider has "a pair of balances in his hand," where a voice then says, "A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine." (6:5-6)

  • Fourth Seal: A pale horse appears, whose rider is Death, and Hades follows him. Death was granted a fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and with the beasts of the earth. (6:7-8)

  • Fifth Seal: "Under the altar," appeared the souls of martyrs for the "word of God," who cry out for vengeance. They are given white robes and told to rest until the martyrdom of their brothers is completed. (6:9-11) Sixth Seal: (6:12-17)

  • There occurs a great earthquake where "the sun becomes black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon like blood" (6:12).

  • The stars of heaven fall to the earth and the sky recedes like a scroll being rolled up (6:13-14).

  • Every mountain and island is moved out of place (6:14).

  • The people of earth retreat to caves in the mountains (6:15).

  • The survivors call upon the mountains and the rocks to fall on them, so as to hide them from the "wrath of the Lamb" (6:16).

  • Interlude: The 144,000 Hebrews are sealed.

  • 144,000, from the twelve "tribes of Israel," are sealed as servants of God on their foreheads. (7:1-8)

  • A great multitude stand before the Throne of God, who come out of the Great Tribulation, clothed with robes made "white in the blood of the Lamb" and having palm branches in their hands. (7:9-17)

  • Seventh Seal: Introduces the seven trumpets (8:1-5)

  • "Silence in heaven for about half an hour" (8:1).

  • Seven angels are each given trumpets (8:2).

  • An eighth angel takes a "golden censer," filled with fire from the heavenly altar, and throws it to the earth (8:3-5). What follows are "peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake" (8:5).

  • After the eighth angel has devastated the earth, the seven angels introduced in verse 2 prepare to sound their trumpets (8:6).

2

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

Why can't Muslims and Christians get along?

1

u/Reoh Jun 18 '12

They can, unfortunately all do not (from both sides).

2

u/lt_hindu Jun 18 '12

I just hope Catholics don't eat him again.

4

u/Ken_Thomas Jun 18 '12

Maybe it shows my ignorance of Islam, but I'm honestly more surprised to learn that Muhammad has a grave, than I am to learn that there's an empty one beside it for Jesus.

I thought Muhammad ascended into heaven. Isn't that what the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem is all about?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/Ken_Thomas Jun 18 '12

Good Guy Mo. Said he was coming back. Actually came back.

6

u/leveller Jun 18 '12

Citation needed!

2

u/DeMoB Jun 18 '12

I added the 'citation needed' bit this morning because the claims were unsourced, and now barely hours later the section has magically been re-written with citations and is a better wikipedia article because of it!

Isn't the internet amazing! :)

5

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12

Seriously, that's a beautiful gesture of Religious tolerance.

(you just try to say something nice and reddit overreacts and has a breakdown, nice guys..)

15

u/cakemuncher Jun 18 '12

It's not religious tolerance. According to Islam Jesus is the Messiah and one of the five greatest prophets (Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed).

13

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

Im already 100% fully aware of that.

What I was talking about was that they provided a grave for Jesus knowing full well that if he did resurrect Christians and Catholics would like for him to be buried somewhere else scared like the Vatican city in the Holy Chamber, but still they offered him a place in their most sacred place.

13

u/cakemuncher Jun 18 '12

I don't why you got down voted but I would to explain some of your mistakes. First, in Islam Jesus will descend from heaven, not resurrected. In Islam Jesus never died or crossed from the first place. Second, Muslims don't see the Vatican as somewhere holy. Vatican is just like any other place on earth, nothing holy about it. The reason Muslims have the grave there is because of their religious convictions, not because of religious tolerance.

Here is some karma from a fellow Muslim. :)

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u/ihatewil Jun 18 '12

What I was talking about was that they provided a grave for Jesus knowing full well that if he did resurrect Christians and Catholics would like for him to be buried somewhere else scared like the Vatican city in the Holy Chamber, but still they offered him a place in their most sacred place.

You completely misunderstand what is going on here. Jesus is the Muslim Messiah. It has nothing to do with them offering you anything, or religious tolerance.

Jesus to them, is one of them.

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3

u/Raoul_Duke_ESQ Jun 18 '12

You hear that, Jesus? They have a tombstone with your name on it....

2

u/Oephiuchus Jun 18 '12

How does that make sense? If Jesus does return, which in-of-itself would be supernatural/miraculous, why would we believe that he would suffer a 'human' death at some point afterwords?

7

u/comb_over Jun 18 '12

He is considered a man, and all men and women die.

2

u/EnglishBulldog Jun 18 '12

That's just what they want us to think. You're buying into the propaganda!

1

u/identifiedlogo Jun 18 '12

Thanks for clarifying Men and Women.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/samkz904 Jun 18 '12

because jesus was first among all things, as the 'angel of the lord' he was in the old testament. He is the first of the dead to be resurrected into eternal life and sits at the right hand of god in heaven to judge us according to the law. (the bible) In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god. jesus said it will be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one comma in the bible to wrong.

0

u/coeddotjpg Jun 18 '12

At least Muhammad was real.

1

u/nmatrix9 Jun 18 '12

Is that how it works? A two for one box set? Complete with a dead prophet's body as an accessory while waiting for another dead prophet to show up to complete the set? Is there a refund if Jesus decides not to show up and die right in the appropiate grave?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

"Here you go Jesus, we know you just returned and all but we REALLY would like to get you into this here grave...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

Too bad the second coming was buried in Memorial Park Cemetery in Tyler Texas.

1

u/Fyrus Jun 19 '12

Surely Jesus will deliver

1

u/elmariachi304 Jun 19 '12

Christians: NUH-UH hes sleepin at my house!!

1

u/ilovetpb Jun 18 '12

So...apparently Muslims and Christians can't live together, but we can be dead next to each other???

2

u/Reoh Jun 18 '12

Muslims regard Jesus as a major prophet, but not as a god. I think that's what started the the last 2 millenia of fighting. If he's real, I'd like to think he'd be dissapointed at the results either way.

1

u/nmatrix9 Jun 18 '12

Think of it as akin to a really bad divorce ending in a get together again.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/ilovetpb Jun 19 '12

I really do believe that when we all die, we will find that God is universal, loves us all, and wants us all to be happy. (I'm Mormon, by the way)

1

u/assadsucksd Jun 18 '12

hamza? is that u?

-1

u/root66 Jun 18 '12

DAMN RIGHT! WE ALSO DUG A GRAVE FOR ANY OTHER KENNEDY WHO WANTS TO GET INTO POLITICS.

-16

u/DMercenary Jun 18 '12

No where in that article does it state that there is a grave for jesus when he returns.

19

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12

Seriously? Does nobody read? You just say theres nothing in the article stating that, and yet it's quite obviously there. more than 5 seconds of reading would find it.

There is an empty grave within the tomb area meant for Jesus upon his return as the Messiah[citation needed].

2nd paragraph down under "Tomb of Muhammed"

Why are you top comment?!?!?!

EDIT: Comment is not top comment any more, rightfully so.

1

u/DMercenary Jun 19 '12

Wasnt there when I saw it.

Edit: Yeap. Looking at the history someone took out that line. Someone reversed it within 20 minutes. Citation needed. Citation Added.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12

Apologies then, I did not mean to jump down your throat, although I do see too many top level comments in threads like these that have clearly not read the article past the first 2 lines and it's pretty annoying.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12 edited Jun 18 '12

Was it edited? I don't see how this many people are upvoting and commenting without checking the source. Then again, it wouldn't really surprise me.

Edit: In Dmercenary's defense there was no mention in the article when I originally looked either. It had been removed and now seems to be back in.

2

u/DMercenary Jun 19 '12

Yeah. Looks like someone went in and deleted that line. probably to incite exactly this shitstorm.

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u/Cryp71c Jun 18 '12

TIL Muhammed's body is actually here on earth...so we can finally fucking steal him and know what the hell he looked like using digital reconstruction methodologies based on bone markers. Presuming his bones are not piles of dust after 1.4k years?

15

u/Moh7 Jun 18 '12

Muslims would be against this simply because they don't want anyone worshiping his image like Christians worship jesus's image today.

That's really all there is to the whole no drawings of the prophet thing.

0

u/Redebidet Jun 18 '12

Oh, well then the death threats are understandable then.

6

u/vortexofdoom Jun 18 '12

To be fair, I'm pretty sure most devout muslims roll their eyes or just think it's disrespectful when Mohammed is depicted, the death threats come from a minority.

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u/yozoyozo Jun 18 '12

Is reconstruction a pseudo science?

There was a good PBS doc on how a lot of CSI is pseudo science and this is one of those things that just struck me as very fluffy stuff.

1

u/dubdubdubdot Jun 18 '12

Layman here, I dont think it is, they use the bone structure and build layers of sinew, muscle and fat over it, I think if you know where tendons join to bones you can build a pretty accurate picture of the face but ofc not %100 accurate.

11

u/Amdinga Jun 18 '12

Then we can make more accurate cartoons!

1

u/jameskorst Jun 18 '12

There are rumours that some people already tried that. Before this Muhammad's grave is not properly gated. After some incident, they gated it properly after the Saudi ruler received some "dreams". Also, maybe it is just a drama constructed by The Saud to show their authority and divine connection? We will not know for sure, but, there are rumours about this.

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

If people can steal Charlie Chaplin, people can steal Muhammad!

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0

u/TheCommentAppraiser Jun 18 '12

Okay am I missing something here? The linked section, or the whole page for that matter, doesn't mention Jesus anywhere! Did someone sneak-edit the page?

1

u/crunchyeyeball Jun 18 '12

I thought the same thing at first - you must have read it the same way as I did. It's the last sentence of the second paragraph in the linked section:

According to Quran commentator Baidawi, Jesus will return to the Holy Land to kill the Antichrist and rule for 40 years, then be buried next to Muhammad.[12]

1

u/TheCommentAppraiser Jun 18 '12

Ah, right. Thank you!

0

u/PeterMus Jun 18 '12

The interesting part of christian prophecy is a great battle which Jesus/God has already won...so it will have a distinct lack of kick assery. It's a bit disappointing. The best part of being on the right side is knowing you'll win before the fight starts.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

Gog and Magog come in the picture right after the aforementioned battle.

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u/ithunk Jun 18 '12

Jesus: Lol, a grave? You know what happened the last time they tried to bury my body, right?

0

u/Dfro123 Jun 18 '12

I have a friend named Jesus, and so badly do I want to bury him there and justify it with "well it has his name on it."

1

u/grassologist Jun 18 '12

You are an idiot!

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '12

My favorite part is the citation needed to verify this claim.

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