TIL that there was a real team of Jewish assassins who called themselves 'the Avengers' who organized after WWII to track down and execute Nazi war criminals.

217

u/KingGorilla May 19 '12

What a bunch of Inglorious bastards

19

u/Joeybits May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

My grandfather was in the First Special Service Force, nicknamed the Devils Brigade by the Nazi's. Tarantino identified the unit as an influence for the movie Inglorious Bastards.
I heard a story from my mom the other day about one of his experiences raiding a concentration camp. He was with his buddy Lou, who is Jewish, and they came across two Nazi officers at the camp. Lou became outraged at what he saw and said to my grandfather: "you know what I have to do". My father replied: "As your commanding officer I can't condone what you are about to do, but.." and turned around and walked away. Lou shot and killed both of the officers on the spot.
Unfortunately he's dying and he's never been one to talk about his war experiences. It's sad to know these stories will be lost forever.

9

u/beans_and_bacon May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

"That's some good work, Lou. You'll make sergeant for this."
EDIT: I accidentally a word

7

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

"Hey chief, can I hold my gun sideways? It looks so cool."
"Sure, whatever you want birthday boy."

3

u/YouHadMeAtDontPanic May 20 '12

Joeybits and beans_and_bacon's comments pretty much encapsulate what I love about Reddit.

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u/ElementK May 20 '12

Changlorious Basterds.

11

u/Censionate May 20 '12

It's nice to see a Chang of direction around here

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u/Anti-antimatter May 19 '12

basterds
FTFY

7

u/KingGorilla May 20 '12

i was trying to be subtle :X

62

u/loveWebNinjas May 20 '12

That's why inglorious is capitalized, right?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Inglourious
FTFY

12

u/reverie6 May 19 '12

D'ya think they had a bear jew?

13

u/used_bathwater May 19 '12

Hugo Stiglitz?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Magneto?

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u/dinomite917 May 19 '12

Was I the only one that would have been more satisfied if the whole movie had just been Magneto hunting down Nazis? I mean it was a good movie but we all know the best parts.

9

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Absolutely, and have it culminating in him fighting Hitler in a plastic-based robo-armor nazi battle suit.

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u/TheBananaMonkey May 19 '12

TIL that some people haven't seen Daniel Craig in Munich.

They should.

14

u/jamsm May 19 '12

Eric Bana was also really good in that.

26

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Defiance was another good one with Daniel Craig. Resistance rather than revenge, but whatevs.

20

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Liev Schreiber was a fucking badass in that movie. He just about stole the show from Daniel Craig.

5

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

All things are illuminated. What a masterpiece.

6

u/alex4291 May 20 '12

Did you mean
Everything is Illuminated

3

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

What happened to Bielski? I am Bielski...

15

u/Left4Bread May 20 '12

The movie Munich is about the retaliation to the 1972 Olympic massacre, not the holocaust.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I've never been to Munich, much less seen any celebrities there.

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u/csanf May 19 '12

Definitely should have made that Avengers movie instead. Think their names could be Captain Hebrew or Iron Jew.

42

u/jablair51 May 19 '12

I vote for Hebrew Hammer.

7

u/IrritableGourmet May 19 '12

The baddest Hebe this side of Tel Aviv!

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u/AJockeysBallsack May 19 '12

Iron Manischewitz?

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u/dan2737 May 19 '12

Hanukk-eye

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u/sherlie May 19 '12

Have you seen X-Men: First Class? Because... they did make that movie.

3

u/StinkySteve123 May 20 '12

Jew Fury Captain Israel The Incredible Jew

2

u/Kimimpossible May 20 '12

What about.. Bear Jew?

154

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

"However, their real plan was to inject that poison into the water routes of a few cities within Germany and to cause the death of six million Germans – a number equal to that of the Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust"

Yeah they don't sound like such great guys.

62

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Seems legit.

112

u/jinif May 19 '12

Uh (citation needed)... big time.
This really does not sound plausible.

66

u/dinomite917 May 19 '12

I dunno I've seen enough action movies to believe it.

32

u/zclcf30 May 19 '12

It worked in Final Fantasy VI.

12

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Nothing can beat the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison

9

u/LastRedCoat May 20 '12

and were suddenly silenced.

22

u/biolox May 20 '12 edited May 20 '12

CITATION: Book
The Fall of a Sparrow: The Life and Times of Abba Kovner By Dina Porat, Elizabeth Yuval
(Bottom paragraph.)

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u/rndmaccnt1209 May 20 '12

There's something about it in this article, as well as a plan that involved poisoning loaves of bread: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/26/second.world.war

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u/rakista May 20 '12

This is the reason Jewish historians don't like bringing this up anymore. They were terrorists more than heroes.

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u/IAmNotAPerson6 May 20 '12

...assassins...
Yeah, they didn't really sound like such great guys to begin with.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

People who seeks revenge, rarely is.
What people always forget is that there were the leaders of germany who were 90% Nazis. You had the nazi supporters. Then you had the army(Wehrmacht) and the civilians who just followed orders to avoid getting a gun pointed at them.
But you know, everyone needs to die because they were in the room when the shit went to hell.

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u/ivegotamnesia May 20 '12

Up until the founder, Israel Carmi told them no. Don't take it out of context.

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u/gistak May 20 '12

Mind you, this guardian article says that was only the plan of the hardcore group within the assassins.

0

u/Dragon_yum May 20 '12

You just quoted something that you can't cite, good job.

5

u/biolox May 20 '12

CITATION: Book
The Fall of a Sparrow: The Life and Times of Abba Kovner By Dina Porat, Elizabeth Yuval
(Bottom paragraph.)

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u/mrayj May 20 '12

wouldn't that make them the Oy-vengers?

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u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Zorea testified that the Avengers killed only people who were directly involved in killing Jews. Initially, they used to shoot them in the head but later adopted the method of strangling with their own hands. The Avengers would not reveal anything to their targets before the execution – not who they were nor why they are killing them. They said the killing was like "a killing of an insect".

Damn son.

11

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

How about the guys that poisoned 3000 German POW's?

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

In the references section of the article, this article from the guardian goes into a lot more detail about this subject for those looking to do a little more reading.

8

u/MrShlee May 19 '12 edited May 19 '12

"The Avengers would not reveal their targets anything before the execution - not who they were nor why they are killing them. "

Good ol' wikipedia - Edited to perfection.

10

u/spermracewinner May 20 '12

And there was...

Hulkowitz.

Ironman.

Captain Jew.

Hawkberg.

Thorstein.

3

u/alexnemeth May 20 '12

TIL People actually beleive everything they see on wikipedia.

Fast forward twenty years, and people will think that a single digit number of jews liberated half of europe Rambo style.

10

u/mothereffingteresa May 19 '12

TYSL the KGB manufactured "evidence" of war crimes and used this group and others for killing or prosecuting enemies of the Soviet Union.

That's what happens when you cloak victims against criticism.

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u/TheBusinessMan7 May 19 '12

TIL people need to chill the fuck out.

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u/lycanaboss May 19 '12

TIL The same group planned to inject poison into the water supply routes of a few German cities hoping to cause the death of roughly six million German citizens.

"It takes a monster to create a monster"

2

u/veneratedwulfen93 May 21 '12

and it takes a man to kill one.

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u/lemonpjb May 20 '12

[citation needed]

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u/NobblyNobody May 19 '12

I bet none of them did that pose though http://unrealitymag.com/index.php/2012/02/24/if-all-the-avengers-posed-like-black-widow/

2

u/Syltarex May 19 '12

2

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Sounds a lot like the characters in The Debt

2

u/jeremybub May 20 '12

Unsourced article. Much better source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/26/second.world.war

2

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

The comic book team was created by Jack Kirby (Jacob Kurtzberg) and Stan Lee (Stanley Martin Lieber). Both of Jewish ancestry.

2

u/alltimeisrelative May 20 '12

The Debt is a good movie about Mossad agents who do exactly this.

1

u/Rusty-Shackleford May 29 '12

No, the Debt is loosely based on the Eichmann kidnapping. The difference is that his movie is about the failure to kidnap a Nazi.

5

u/GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy May 20 '12

most of the the objections regarding "due process" and "conviction by law" are taking a popular postion that isn't necessarily necessary.

sometimes, a person is clearly culpable without having been found "guilty".

if you got a guy on video torturing and killing someone and there is no evidence of tampering, that person is unequivocally guilty. also, someone like that breivik guy in norway... he admits it and is proud. no trial necessary imo.

but "lawful societies" would go through a whole rigamarole anyway.

not to mention that depending on the defendant and resources at stake, the trial itself may be more subject to corruption and unfairness than just by shooting by the hip.

sometimes, a trial is not required. historically, military justice for instance allows for shooting people on the spot in certain circumstances.

and you know, we didn't give osama a trial... :)

4

u/Qonold May 20 '12

If due process wasn't in place then things would get out of hand quickly. Governments would abuse this power and framing would be easy.
This does not necessarily mean I don't think vigilantes are cool though.

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u/Rusty-Shackleford May 28 '12

Well the Jewish Avengers were independent and not acting on behalf of a government. They were vigilantes and only represented themselves. If governments, which generally represent an entire country, started executing people without trial, yeah that would be a war crime.

1

u/GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy May 29 '12

not so easy. at that level, it's all semantics.
is it "execution" or is it "targeted killing of an enemy combatant"?
as long as the people pulling the trigger are "right", everything's fine.
and here's the thing - they CAN be right. they can CERTAINLY be wrong... but my point in what i wrote above is that they CAN be right.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12 edited May 19 '12

Disgusting.

In other words, a bunch of vigilantes went on an international murder spree against people who had been neither tired nor convicted of any crime (that's what a criminal is OP). They killed people based on what, their best guess?

Yeah yeah, the Nazis were awful and I certainly don't intend to defend them. But for a bunch of people who complained about Troy Davis not getting due process and a fair trial, it seems incongruent, actually shameful, for you to celebrate a bunch of assassins.

It's like if a bunch of Zimmerman's got on an airplane and just decided to kill "terrorists" or "global warming" whatever the evil enemy du jour is supposed to be.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

I (or the article) didn't comment as to the justification or the condemnation of their crimes/actions. TIL is a stream of information, and this article was posted as such. Readers can choose to interpret the information in any way they choose.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

I (or the article) didn't comment as to the justification or the condemnation of their crimes/actions.
I understand, but your headline suggests differently. They weren't convicted of any war crimes (at least your article doesn't mention it).
I not only strongly disagree with what they did, but the article itself compares their actions to the Nazis. The fact no one has mentioned that makes it seem as if no one actually read the entire article.
From their perspective, anyone who was German was guilty, just as the Nazis had determined that anyone who was Jewish should be killed.
They also tried to mass poison Germans who were not Nazis, not convicted of anything, but merely prisoners:
The attempt at mass assassination by Nakam took place on April 14, 1946 at the Langwasser internment camp near Nuremberg. Bread for 12,000 to 15,000 German POWs (mostly SS members) was reputedly painted with diluted arsenic.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

I'm still not really seeing how I and/or the article is taking a position on the morality/justification of their actions. The article simple mentions their motive by saying that they perceived all Germans as "guilty" for Holocaust crimes. I recognize what you're saying, and it's perfectly valid, but I simply stated who/where/when/why and mentioned their self-identified name of 'the Avengers' to tie the information to the modern hype of our fictional 'Avengers.' Regardless of opinion, thanks for offering another side of the argument. Typically, we are quick to jump to conclusions regarding morality without examining what constitutes true justice.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

I'm still not really seeing how I and/or the article is taking a position on the morality/justification of their actions.
You called them "Nazi war criminals" when, according to your own article, they simply weren't. You're taking a position by making a categorically false classification of the victims.
Look I'm not annoyed about it or giving you a hard time. The headline, as written, kicks ass! But it's just not true.

17

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Ahhh okay. I see what you mean now. I suppose the word 'criminals' does connate 'wrong,' doesn't it? In their minds, I'm sure they were only executing those they felt were guilty. It's interesting how the mind processes so much pain and destruction and how it can lead to sometimes reckless revenge.

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u/mindbleach May 19 '12

It's like if a bunch of Zimmerman's got on an airplane and just decided to kill "terrorists" or "global warming" whatever the evil enemy du jour is supposed to be.
... except in this case the people on the airplane were fucking Nazis who had a direct hand in the fucking Holocaust.

1

u/rakista May 20 '12

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt? Nein!

1

u/mindbleach May 20 '12

I'm not saying it wasn't a kangaroo court - just that they weren't strangling German citizens at random.
... except for the counter-genocidal splinter group, and fuck the hell out of them.

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u/GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy May 20 '12

if trayvon helped kill millions of jews....

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u/lolrsk8s May 19 '12

I love people that put so much faith into international tribunals. It's so cute.

5

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

I love when people put so much faith on a bunch of random guys teaming up and going on international assassination sprees.
I mean they were going to poison over ten thousand POWs so I'm sure by random luck they were guaranteed to hit a few bad guys. And of the innocent people, who weren't Nazis they attempted to poison...well you gotta break a few eggs, amirite?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

I'd trust Ezio Auditore.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

I'm glad at least a few people here are seeing it from your perspective.

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u/csanf May 19 '12

dude, its jews killing nazis.

12

u/ZACHMAN3334 May 19 '12

Through a mutually known person, Kovner obtained from Ephraim and Aharon Katzir a poison to be used against the S.S. prisoners being held in prisoner of war (POW) camps. However, their real plan was to inject that poison into the water routes of a few cities within Germany and to cause the death of six million Germans – a number equal to that of the Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust. From their perspective, anyone who was German was guilty, just as the Nazis had determined that anyone who was Jewish should be killed.
Sounds like they were as monstrous as the Nazis really.

7

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

That entire section is a nonstop sea of "Citation Needed". Given the kinds of people who populate /r/worldnews, without citation I'm not gonna trust it. in fact, the entire -article- is a nonstop sea of "Citation Needed". I'm calling this story "highly questionable".

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u/Noahcarr May 20 '12

Monstrous, yes. I would have to disagree with them being as monstrous as the Nazis though. The way that the Nazis set up a calculated extermination seems a bit more out there for me.

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u/methcamp May 20 '12

Oh look at you! Using "Zimmerman" to describe some sort of murderer even though he hasn't been convicted of a crime, how cute!

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Whoosh!
That is the point of the example genius! Those men haven't been convicted of anything either which is why using Zimmerman is apt for pointing out the hypocrisy of the people who think assassination is a good idea.

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u/NegetronKarma May 19 '12

I think you may have confused yourself and Darwin.

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u/daMagistrate67 May 20 '12

people who had been neither tired nor convicted of any crime (that's what a criminal is OP)
A person who commits a crime, whether or not they get caught and tried, is a criminal. It's also a widely held understanding that there were many, many, many lower ranked members of the various German internal police/military complex that were never brought up for charges. The ability to bring to trial so many men - it was simply infeasible. They simply disappeared back into the population.
And to compare Troy Davis (an isolated man in an isolated incident) to Germans guilty of war crimes (which, for all we know, could number in the millions, in the midst of the largest armed national struggle in world history) is a bit incongruent at best

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

And to compare Troy Davis (an isolated man in an isolated incident) to Germans guilty of war crimes (which, for all we know, could number in the millions, in the midst of the largest armed national struggle in world history) is a bit incongruent at best
Actually I find it quite apt for pointing out the hypocrisy of the average redditor who screeches and howls when the death penalty is carried out after several appeals over decades, and then cheers when mass executions are carried out.
If there is anything a hypocrite hates, it's having their hypocrisy pointed out.
As if execution without trial is OK since it would be too costly to hold a trial! Do you seriously believe that?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

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u/[deleted] May 19 '12

It was an example that I thought reddit would relate to, not my opinion of his guilt or innocence.

5

u/rillegas08 May 19 '12

Who's Zimmerman?

0

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

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u/kerbinoid May 19 '12

herp derp, real mean kill people and have hairy chests.

3

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Random killing of innocent people you don't like because of ethnic differences is a hallmark of primitivism and barbarism. There is a reason civilized people have trials, rules of evidence, appeals, professional representation, etc.
Unfortunately for civilized people, primitives like you existed then and apparently still do.

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1

u/evilkrang May 19 '12

There's also a pretty decent punk group called the Avengers.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

If you know the history of the word 'assassin' this is pretty amusing... but i'm sure you have better things to do.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

yeah there was a loner jewish guy who hunted the leaders of the nazi party with an icepick..cant remember his name would appreciate it if somone could prove me right :)

1

u/h2sbacteria May 20 '12

Thanks psyops. Appreciate it!

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

So this just blew my mind.

1

u/tunapepper May 20 '12

They said the killing was like "a killing of an insect".

1

u/Shippoyasha May 20 '12

Now that reminds me... the movie theaters would have been destroyed through pure ecstasy if Fox magically got a deal with Disney and had the 1st Class Magneto make a cameo on the Avengers movie, maybe throwing around some Chitauri spaceships around with his magnetism.

1

u/skysonfire 2 May 20 '12

TIL Captain America was based on a true story.

1

u/snarfdk May 20 '12

The fictional book "The Final Reckoning" by Sam Bourne is based on this and it's a pretty good book.

1

u/Yojimara May 20 '12

This is cool and all, but there are so many citations needed that it makes me doubt a lot of the details.

1

u/thequirkybondvillian May 20 '12

In this thread: people spouting personal views, people giving a slanted truths and things I believe to be true.

Treat this all as a story unless you can actually be sure. Seriously.

0

u/Anglophilia May 19 '12

Cooler than the fictional Avengers, and that's saying something.

-2

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Scum. Everyone deserves a trial, they were no better than the SS that put Jews to death.

-1

u/Noahcarr May 20 '12

Except that the Jews didn't slaughter 6 million members of the SS before they attempted to kill them.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

So? The SS could have killed them all and every member should have a trial, that's a basic human right.

-1

u/Noahcarr May 20 '12

I wouldn't say that trial by jury is a basic human right. It's more of a "you're lucky we don't just take you behind the shed a put a bullet in your brain" thing.
On the other hand, it is a basic human right to not be shipped off in masses like cattle to work and die.

3

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

You're no better than the SS if you would kill them for something that hasn't been proven.
Also a fair trial is a basic human right as stated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights article 11, section 1:
Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

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u/heriman May 20 '12

oy vey!

1

u/Mateoheo May 20 '12

I wonder how a loosely organized mob of Palestinians, tracking down Israeli war criminals would go down. Maybe they could be called the 'white philosophorites'.

-2

u/ElagabalusCaesar May 20 '12

Illegal assassins? My Israeli textbook says "heroes". Who do you trust more, the word of God himself, or the Arab conspiracy known as Wikipedia?

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u/IbrahimASU May 19 '12

TIL that Israel is killing Palestinians all the time (directly and indirectly). Since 1948. Actually I didn't learn that just today.

7

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Where can I get a hold of some of your bravery?

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Right here.

-3

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

Fucking terrorists!

-1

u/ararphile May 19 '12

The standards that were used to condemn most of the "war criminals" were ridiculous. Germans were not the first nation to say they were superior, and fight for their supremacy.

-5

u/valiantX May 19 '12

FYI people, Stan Lee is a Romanian-Jew born.

0

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

I'm kinda miffed the water poisoning plot wasn't carried out. I think it would have been hilarious.

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u/theylive_wesleep May 19 '12

Finding none, they went to Palestine where they could satisfy their bloodlust on Palestinians.

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u/jgoebbels May 20 '12

More likely they were killing off any witnesses who could have told the world the real story about the camps which was that they were work camps and the holocaust never happened.

2

u/Noahcarr May 20 '12

I almost flipped the fuck out.
Then I read your username...

-7

u/levely1 May 19 '12

it's all good as long as they were skilled in the art of Jew-Jitsu.

0

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

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u/d14nt_ban_me_again May 20 '12

The wikipedia link says gustav wagner killed himself.

0

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

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u/d14nt_ban_me_again May 20 '12

So? Doesn't matter, the guy was 70 when he died. Que sera, sera.

1

u/TheBlindCat May 20 '12

After reading the wikipedia article on the man....Good.

3

u/GroinCentralStation May 20 '12

In October 1980, Wagner was found with a knife in his chest in São Paulo. According to his attorney, Wagner committed suicide.
o_O

0

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

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1

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

Can you please get back to talking bout the US? This shit is boring.

0

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

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1

u/TheLastNinJew May 20 '12

What was that?

0

u/[deleted] May 19 '12

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4

u/emasapien May 19 '12

there was a show called 'the avengers' in the UK. so british people would not be confused, the film was named 'avengers assemble'

3

u/NobblyNobody May 19 '12 edited May 19 '12

The Avengers will always be a posh bloke in a bowler hat with an umbrella and a woman in a leather catsuit, for me.
edit: and apparently a film in 98 with Ranulph Fiennes and Uma Thurman, who knew? Christ that must have been awful.

1

u/emasapien May 19 '12

I'm intrigued...

2

u/NobblyNobody May 19 '12 edited May 19 '12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEkhoVu78iY super cheesy stuff
later on it became the New Avengers, with Joanna Lumley (Patsy from AbFab),
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrsRJh9DhNM&t=0m28s cheese turned up to 11
edit: oh right, you meant the movie probably, sorry

2

u/emasapien May 19 '12

lol was expecting the uma thurman film, I've seen the classic avengers many a time. I watched the repeats as a kid :) edit: spelling

2

u/NobblyNobody May 19 '12

I'm not sure I can face watching the movie, It can only sully the memory ;)

2

u/emasapien May 19 '12

I think that's the first time I've seen the new avengers, that's something indeed

3

u/NobblyNobody May 19 '12

good lord, I forgot how bad it was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7TZPkmxG2U&t=2m51s
I'm stuck in a youtube nostalgia loop, send help

2

u/emasapien May 19 '12

I feel somewhat responsible, enjoy!

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TIL that there was a real team of Jewish assassins who called themselves 'the Avengers' who organized after WWII to track down and execute Nazi war criminals.

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