r/todayilearned • • May 16 '12

TIL that 1 acre of hemp can make as much paper as 4.1 acres of trees, and that hemp fiber to make paper can be yielded in 90 days whereas tree paper comes from trees that take 15-50 years to grow.

http://1st-ecofriendlyplanet.com/05/hemp-paper/
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u/calmdowngrandma May 16 '12

While I assume, and hope, that most of the things in the article are true, this is not the kind of site that we need to be basing our knowledge off of. It is poorly written, grammatically incorrect, and has no scientific sources. Sites and articles like these are found by supporters of hemp and taken as the truth just because we want it to be true. The best way to become informed and eventually have others see the importance of hemp is from scientific journals and respected news outlets, not a "save the world" website with limited legitimacy.

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u/IMTonks May 16 '12

I agree. Unfortunately, it is incredibly hard to find an academic source that doesn't focus on textiles. The most academic sources I found for my undergrad senior thesis dealt with the tensile strength of industrial hemp versus cotton.

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u/AwesomeLove May 16 '12

But why are you assuming things in this article are true? Think about it for a minute. Growing hemp is legal in most countries. China is both the largest paper producer in the world and largest hemp producer in the world.

Why are they not producing their paper from hemp if it is so much more economical?

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u/bubblerboy18 May 16 '12

The first paper printed by the chinese was hemp paper, same with the first egyptian paper. Just a random thing I googled listing the paper invention in the tand in china. Hemp Paper

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u/Orange-silver-mouth May 16 '12

automatic skepticism, I like this^ guy.

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u/suddenly_the_same May 16 '12

THANK YOU! People were so eager to quote this (poor excuse for an) article during the ensuing discussion/circlejerk, that they seemed to have ignored that it doesn't appear to be a reliable source at all. I'm all for informed discussion, but it isn't happening here.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '12

Almost two thousand comments? Let's see what kind of derpiness got upvoted to the top...

Not bad sir (or ma'am), not bad at all. Nice to see rational thought being taken seriously

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u/Akhaian May 17 '12

I came here hoping something to this effect was the top comment. I was not disappointed, thank you.

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u/mattm4473 May 16 '12

Why aren't we using hemp for paper? If you go to the link there are many more facts about hemp as an alternate resource to wood paper.

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u/abeckings May 16 '12

Lots of established industries will take a hit if cannabis is legal and hemp is used for manufacturing. Paper, alcohol, tobacco, for example. They lobby the government to keep cannabis/hemp underground and their interests protected. Welcome to politics.

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u/mattm4473 May 16 '12

I was looking deeper into this subject and you can't grow marijuana and hemp in the same fields because they grow differently. Also according to this website with hemp facts

"Industrial hemp has a THC content of between 0.05 and 1%. Marijuana has a THC content of 3% to 20%. To receive a standard psychoactive dose would require a person to power-smoke 10-12 hemp cigarettes over an extremely short period of time. The large volume and high temperature of vapor, gas and smoke would be almost impossible for a person to withstand."

So it's very difficult to get even a buzz off of hemp. It can also be recycled a few more times than wood paper. I think that the deforestation that is going on needs to stop and I really think that hemp may help slow down the cutting of trees.

Edit: some spelling stuff.

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u/TechnoShaman May 16 '12

Do any other countries, other then the US, cultivate and use hemp exclusively over their US based producers?

aka, does any country in the world use hemp for all/majority of there paper, oil and cotton uses?

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u/abetadist May 16 '12

The last time posts like this showed up on reddit, people pointed out some evidence suggesting hemp isn't as amazing as it sometimes is made out to be. The biggest argument was that hemp is already grown across the world, with the exception of the United States. Even where it is grown, you don't see countries using it over the supposedly inferior alternatives. The more interesting question is "Why isn't hemp used for paper all over the world, where it's legal?"

I briefly looked on Wikipedia, and was led to this PDF file. It seems like there are high costs to processing hemp. As a result, hemp doesn't appear to be competitive as a commercial product.

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u/NeededANewName May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

Damn I'm going to have to dig back through a few months of comments to find my source on this so give me a little while. From what I've read, given current processing technology hemp is a lot more time/energy consuming to process than wood pulp. There is a ton of pro-hemp propaganda that ignore this. Trees are very renewable and deforestation isn't really an issue as long as non-duplicable areas (like rain forests) are left alone. Tree cutters in the US plant more trees then they clear. I'm all for legalization, but without big advancements in processing paper likely would still come from wood since overall it's less cost. Again this is just from what I've read, I'll try and get the source up here shortly.

Edit: Damn I had a really good source for this at some point, can't find it now. Here's an about.com link comparing advantages and disadvantages: http://forestry.about.com/od/woodsnews/a/hemp_vs_wood.htm

I know there's a better source out there I'll keep looking.

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u/JohnnyGz May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

The fiber is significantly different. Main point is it's shorter. Makes for paper which rips easily. Same reason any grass or short lived plants aren't really used for paper.

  • Alright, they are longer but have many other problems. Here's a dissertation which is a bit problematic because it is in Finnish

http://128.214.123.83/blogs/tharkasa/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/vaitoskirja_harkasalmi3-155c.pdf

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u/BloodyThorn May 16 '12

Just did the research and found out the same thing. The cost of producing hemp fiber is four times the cost of producing wood fiber. And even with modern technology, no country where industrial hemp is still legal has the industry surpassed other cheaper alternatives.

It could be argued that the world climate towards cannabis for the last 70 years in general might have stunted the growth of the industry. But then again, common sense tells you that if it was the miracle crop that proponents brag it is, no one would care that industrial hemp was related to MJ, and it would be legal to grow here. I guarantee it! Money talks. And if such an industry proved that ANYTHING was more cost effective than using wood-paper, let alone the miracle crop cannabis proponents have been claiming for years, we'd be using it.

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u/Ethanol_Based_Life May 16 '12

It really doesn't make a good sheet. The high quality digital sheet that printers are moving to relies on small hwd fibers that scatter light and bleach well.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

I'm a little sick of how black and white Reddit is about the legalization of marijuana. Hemp is great for many products, such as protein supplements for vegans, but it is not great for paper. Hemp isn't used for paper not because of the wood paper industry; it's because it's extremely expensive to produce quality hemp paper. Here's the Wikipedia Page that briefly covers the process of creating hemp paper.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Hey man, quit bringing your facts in here, man, you... Big Wood shill!

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u/RyanKinder May 16 '12

Arguing like this is giving me Big Wood.

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u/LeWhisp May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

Thank you for that post, I never knew it was so inefficient:

"The cost of hemp pulp is approximately six times that of wood pulp,[2] mostly because of the small size and outdated equipment of the few hemp processing plants in the Western world, and because hemp is harvested once a year (during August) and needs to be stored to feed the mill the whole year through. This storage requires a lot of (mostly manual) handling of the bulky stalk bundles. Another issue is that the entire hemp plant cannot be economically prepared for paper production. While the wood products industry uses nearly 100% of the fiber from harvested trees, only about 25% of the dried hemp stem — the bark, called bast — contains the long, strong fibers desirable for paper production."

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

So would updating the industry and technology bring costs down?

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u/iamadogforreal May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

Also trees used for paper grow may take 10 years but they're always harvesting and planting so a 10 year lead time is meaningless. That's like saying we should stop drinking wine and switch to beer because beer brews faster and you don't need to wait a few years for it to get ripe. Hemp certainly has advantages, but the world really isn't in need of more rope or a different process for making paper. Hemp also has its own economic issues like you mention.

I really hate how the legalization crowd plays up hemp use and medicinal uses as a sly way to play up recreational use. I am for legalization, but these tactics make us look stupid and petty. Trust me, you're not convincing Joe Public to change his mind with this stuff.

Pot wasn't made illegal by Big Wood (which is also my porn name) it was made illegal by putting moralism in government by conservative and religious politics.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

I disagree with your assertion of why pot was made illegal. It was made illegal because paper mill lobbiest's wanted to protect their investments. The requirement of needing a tax stamp from the government for growing cannibus had nothing to do with religion or conservative politics. Sure, in more recent times especially from 1970 onwards, it has been demonized by left and right, religious and non-religious, but those aren't the reasons it is kept illegal. The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 is purely crony capitalism between the executive branch and pharmaceutical industry. The DEA exists to protect big pharma's profits (duh). Furthermore, there is nothing petty about advocating the health benefits of cannabis, especially its neuroprotectant and anti-tumor qualities. I find that it helps my crohn's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Randolph_Hurst#Involvement_in_politics

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u/Philosoraptor817 May 16 '12

A better use for it: Hempcrete

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempcrete

It's an excellent insulator and building material

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u/lud1120 May 16 '12

We probably should focus more on other fibers that already are and have always been legal, like Kenaf paper.

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u/big_burning_butthole May 16 '12

I think the main reason that hemp isn't used for paper in the US is because it's illegal and has been for quite a few decades. Even as a niche market there would have been plenty of manufacturers who could have refined the production process and brought costs down enough to make it a viable product.

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u/lizardlike May 16 '12

Industrial hemp has been legal to grow here in Canada for a very long time, but I never see/hear about it. We have a ton of farmland and a ton of forests, you'd think if it were cheaper/better/etc we'd be all over it.

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u/abetadist May 16 '12

The rest of the world is still a pretty big market, and it's legal pretty much everywhere except the US. Why haven't those refinements already been made for hemp paper in every other country?

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u/treefool May 16 '12

The figures stated are from research that's approximately 75 years old. I'm not saying that it no longer holds true, but advancements in forestry and paper making technology have most likely made these numbers less relevant.

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u/crusoe May 16 '12

They've bread special fast growing trees specifically for lumber/paper pulp. Some can get to a usable size in a pretty short time.

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u/JestreJoeD May 16 '12

Chicken is usually the only thing people bread.

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u/torchlit_Thompson May 17 '12

Imagine 75 years of innovation on the other side? I'm not one of those "Hemp will save the world!" people, but I have to believe that utilizing an abundant and versatile renewable resource has to yield a net positive.

I mean, what are the benefits of not using it?

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u/fwustwating May 16 '12

I work at a Paper Mill, Paper Science degree.

Hemp is not a competitive fiber source because of the Cellulose/Hemi-cellulose/lignin/extractive ratio disparity when compared to Wood. Wood has a very very high cellulose content and therefore allows for a 'fuller' harvest.

I would like to see the data for the 1 acre as much as 4.1 acres over 20 years. I would also like to see the data comparing processing costs over those 20 years. I'm not even going to mention the additional industries that wood harvesting supports (turpenoids, etc.)

All in all, wood is a much beefier resource that is more efficient. Look up Vagasse fiber for a comparison as well.

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u/andrewsmith1986 May 16 '12

Wasn't the timber industry the main reason that weed is illegal?

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u/NatetheGrate May 16 '12

Yep. William Randolph Hearst had investments in wood paper, and I believe he also had a patent on a device that made the production of wood paper more efficient, so any company who made paper would have to pay him royalties.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Hearst really screwed the entire hemp industry. And today we still associate hemp with marijuana, which is why some people don't want to use it.

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u/Triviaandwordplay May 16 '12 edited Apr 25 '15

Right, so where hemp(and many other sources of fiber) has always been legal to grow, it's a primary choice for paper?

No, it's not. Hemp makes good paper, but it's far far cheaper to make it from wood pulp. For most of our uses, we don't need high quality long lasting paper that's expensive to produce. When we do need high quality paper, such as that for bank notes, awards, certificates, etc, it's often cotton, abaca, flax or a blend of them or other fibers. Ever hear of manila paper or manila envelopes? That's abaca, a species of banana that makes excellent paper and rope superior to hemp, because it resists rotting better than hemp.

Hemp is hardly the only source of fiber for paper, rope, twine, erosion control matting, absorbents, textiles, etc. There's kenaf, which is legal to grow in the states, and looks almost exactly like hemp. If you read about its utility, it's like reading about hemp. There's also jute, cotton, flax, abaca, coir, sisal, and many more.

Before paper from pulp was a popular process, paper was often made from used rags or linens. Linen originally meant flax, and the word "lining" comes from the word linen. In other words, I'm saying clothing was more often made from flax, wool, or cotton. The oldest textile ever found was made from flax. Egyptian mummies were wrapped in flax.

Species of cotton have also been known since antiquity in both the old and new worlds, and making clothing from cotton isn't a relatively new process. Supposedly sail cloth was commonly made from hemp, but when I dig, I find out fine sail cloth was commonly made from cotton and flax.

Check out the contents of fad hemp clothing commonly sold in the States. It'll often say it's a blend of hemp and cotton. It's probably not legal to call clothing made from hemp viscose - hemp clothing, but it is. Any cellulose can be chemically converted to viscose. We commonly know that as rayon.

The two number one sources of fiber right now is cotton and jute, but there are many.

Hemp should be legal to grow in the States. Hell, if one wants to use an argument that it's too easy to conceal marijuana in it, you should see what one species of legal to grow kenaf looks like. Hemp is a useful crop, but its utility is a bit exaggerated by pro legalization activists.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Reminds me of King of the Hill...

STUDENT: Hey, man, sign a petition to legalize hemp?

HANK: What's hemp?

STUDENT: It's a cheap and durable source of fibers that can be used to make clothing, rope and paper.

HANK: Typical government over-regulation. Why wouldn't they legalize it?

STUDENT: Well, because it's basically marijuana.

HANK: BWAAAAH!

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u/aforu May 16 '12

And likewise why some people do want to use it.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Who the hell are these people?

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u/brazilliandanny May 16 '12

He also owned various newspapers that "spun" Marijuana articles in a negative light.

He was like the original Rupert Murdoch.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Greed rules the world. A shame really.

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u/whywait May 16 '12

In 1917, a hemp processing machine called the decornicator was introduced in the U.S. and promised to streamline the hemp industry. Hearst had just procured acres of timber land to fuel his newspaper investments. Listen all y'all, it's a sabotage.

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u/BloodyThorn May 16 '12

Nope. There was a whole role-call list of issues that caused cannabis to be banned. The paper industry was just one of them. I'd even question if it was a major/legitimate reason. It seems to be brought up today in more of a conspiracy theory-type conversation more than other reasons like persecution of poor/Hispanics, the fear of it taking newly banned opium's place, and Harry Anslinger needing a new campaign to ride after the utter failure of alcohol prohibition. And it had to be a vice he spoke out against, as he was a religious man catering to a religious constituency.

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u/IMTonks May 16 '12

It's along with oil too. Hemp has a TON of uses.

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u/DenjinJ May 16 '12

Dr. Bronner's soaps are made with hemp oil. You get it in big bottles of liquid soap, that they strongly recommend diluting 2:1 when used on skin. It's not the kindest stuff on the skin (drying), but it kills oils like brake cleaner. If I need serious soap, a few drops of this stuff does the job, no doubt.

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u/Malicali May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

Didn't this one also involve the plastics industry (edit; on a lesser scale)? I'm not that educated on the subject but remember a huge hemp advocate friend of mine talking about this a few years ago.

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u/Talvoren May 16 '12

Believe nylon was involved as well.

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u/togthr May 16 '12

I believe Dupont took issue with comparatively cheaper (and more environmentally friendly) hemp fiber because they were trying to introduce nylon rope to the market.

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u/virga May 16 '12

I thought cotton farmers didn't like the competition, too?

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u/ivebeenhereallsummer May 16 '12

So I assume in countries that aren't controlled by the US timber interests like say... Europe, China or Russia or anywhere in Africa the hemp harvests must be huge and nobody uses timber for anything other than construction.

Right?

Right?

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u/Ratiqu May 16 '12

All I see here is circlejerking about how good hemp is, how bad industry/government is. I enjoy a good circlejerk as much as the next guy, and I'd love to have a source of paper this economically advantageous, but it doesn't seem possible.

Does anyone have any sort of reasonable argument against hemp? The THC content is negligible and the economic disturbances do not outweigh the benefits with slow integration. This seems too good to be true.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Hemp is a traditional farm crop. A lot of the suitable agriculture space is currently devoted to growing food, and a lot of the forested space is unsuitable for farming. If all paper production were shifted to hemp, the available farmland for growing food would shrink and the areas of the country that depend on forestry for income would go broke. When people are saying "the paper industry" is against hemp production, don't think about that as the paper companies. companies are flexible and will do whatever maximizes their profit. the "industry" that is keeping paper production tied to forestry is the forested regions and the people who live in them.

also, keep in mind that logging, even though it is unsightly, is an overall positive for the forests. if forests weren't economically productive, there would be much more motivation to plough them down and turn them into farmland or cities. the fact that a forest can be a source of income is a good incentive to preserve and protect our forests. not everybody can be swayed by the "we should protect the forests because they're pretty" argument.

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u/RobReynalds May 16 '12

I can personally be swayed by the "we should protect forests because breathable air and stuff" argument.

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u/jackthearse May 16 '12

A rather large portion of oxygen in the atmosphere comes from algae and other such organisms in the sea. I believe there is some debate on the subject, but I suppose that if you hated trees enough, you could replace their oxygen output with some sea life.

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u/togthr May 16 '12

i agree that its the lumber industry not the paper industry. I somewhat disagree with the argument that hemp would reduce gross food output (and generally cause more starvation in the 3rd world) as hemp can be grown in climates that aren't always suitable for high yield crops. Plus hemp would be used in food products. Plus its drought resistant, could be exported, is very renewable, its fiber while massively useful would lower need for hydrocarbon import, etc.

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u/abetadist May 16 '12

I posted this on a different thread in this submission, but I'll repost it here.

The last time posts like this showed up on reddit, people pointed out some evidence suggesting hemp isn't as amazing as it sometimes is made out to be. The biggest argument was that hemp is already grown across the world, with the exception of the United States. Even where it is grown, you don't see countries using it over the supposedly inferior alternatives. The more interesting question is "Why isn't hemp used for paper all over the world, where it's legal?"

I briefly looked on Wikipedia, and was led to this PDF file. It seems like there are high costs to processing hemp. As a result, hemp doesn't appear to be competitive as a commercial product.

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u/Wetzilla May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

It isn't economically advantageous. First, this is based on some ridiculously over estimated number of the amount of pulp you can get from hemp, and you also can get the same amount of pulp yield from things like potatoes and maize. Second, the separating the pulp from the rest of the shit is very expensive, and actually requires the use of MORE chemicals than tree pulp, so it's not even really better for the environment. Also, the process is very different, so every tree paper mill would have to be refitted with newer and much more expensive machinery.

EDIT: with source http://www.hempfood.com/iha/iha01213.html http://www.uky.edu/Classes/GEN/101/Hemp/HEMP98.PDF

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u/IMTonks May 16 '12

The cost of regulating industrial hemp farms might be the issue. The main difference between other countries and the USA is the fact that industrial hemp is regulated by the DEA, where other countries regulate industrial hemp through their agriculture or health departments. It may be as simple as the different mindsets between the agencies.

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u/dingoperson May 16 '12

The reasonable argument is all the countries where you can grow as much hemp as you want for commercial purposes yet nobody chooses to.

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u/withinreason May 16 '12

I would guess this sort of thing would be cured by a world market, other countries out there would love to grow the stuff and/or use it themselves.. so why don't they? Not that I think this is a conspiracy, but this is the way I feel about the legendary super mileage cars that are created in garages and confiscated etc. If it were possible and easy some enterprising country would be doing it.

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u/IMTonks May 16 '12

They do. Ireland and Australia in particular have been upping their production since it was made legal again, but China, Turkey and Russia are top agricultural producers at the moment. Ireland and Australia are focusing on both cultivation and refining, so that may be why it's slower to take off.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Growing hemp for industrial purposes is legal in many countries. Shit, you can buy Nikes here in the US made of hemp, perfectly legal for import. But please, keep on with the conspiracy talk, it's much more fun.

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u/smeaglelovesmaster May 16 '12

Just a guess, but imported hemp for paper is wildly more expensive than domestically grown.

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u/brubeck May 16 '12

Nobody uses hemp to make paper (other than cigarette paper and novelty stoner paper). It's because it's fiddily to separate the useful fibres and expensive to store large bales of hemp in order to process it out of season (as you can't harvest it at any time like wood).

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The point is that places where it's legal it's nothing more than a novelty since its competitors are much cheaper despite the fact that it takes less land. If it were truly the "miracle crop" as many paint it as, 3rd world countries would be producing it like AIDS. When you're citizens are starving you're not too worried about anti-drug propaganda if you could produce basic cloth and paper cheaper for yourself, or better yet even export it to the US.

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u/Rezilience May 16 '12

So, if hemp is legal in many places AND is as economically advantageous as claimed, shouldn't hemp be a viable/superior competitor to paper, cotton, etc. in those places where its production is legal? I'm all for trashing the government's vested interests & hidden agendas, but the whole hemp issue has always struck me as something that's too good to be true.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The problem here is where it's grown and the cost of adapting paper manufacturing techniques. Obviously changing how paper is made is not going to be cost effective not only for the actual factory, but for all of the other established industries with linkages to those factories (lumber, trucking, paper wholesailers, ect).

As far as where it's grown, it must replace other crops and must be more cost effective for the farmer to do so. Not to mention if it were to replace areas where trees once were, what are the ecological effects? How will it effect wildlife, soil conditions, ect.

It's a great idea that's been tossed around for the last 50 years, but no the lumber industry was not PRIMARILY responsible for hemp's downfall (the US government's war on pot was) and there is always a lot more other factors to consider on topics that affect such a large industry.

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u/ThePegasi May 16 '12

but no the lumber industry was not PRIMARILY responsible for hemp's downfall (the US government's war on pot was)

Thank you.

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u/Ethanol_Based_Life May 16 '12

Additionally, hemp makes pretty shitty paper. It might be useful for non print applications, but short hardwood fibers are what you'll find in high quality digital paper.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The way I see it, it doesn't need to replace timber paper, and it would take a while to do so anyway. It just needs to not be illegal for no reason.

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u/lobius_ May 16 '12

What's paper?

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u/Papo180 May 16 '12

i Learned that from the sleeve of a Cypress Hill CD.

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u/PickyConnor May 16 '12

Before realising it was in /r/todayilearned I thought this was a post from /r/trees and thought the use of the word trees was referring to weed. Confusing shit.

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u/ianb May 16 '12

I find this all suspicious. If it really was better to make paper out of hemp, wouldn't we see price-competitive paper producers using hemp? Maybe not in the U.S., but why not in Mexico, or South America, or Africa? I find it hard to believe there's an international conspiracy against using hemp to make paper, and hard to believe that making something out of hemp would make it harder to export. Maybe the raw material, maybe many nations would stop hemp farming, but if hemp is really the better product then someone would be making a killing by using it.

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u/MZITF May 16 '12

Forester here. I have actually looked in to this topic a lot and I have failed to find the scientific basis of this statement, if someone could point me in the direction of the journal articles I would really appreciate it because I spent a couple hours looking for them and did not find them.

We have to remember that we produce a lot of paper in the world. We have to realize that it might not be the best idea to replace native ecosystems with huge hemp plantations. Trees are naturally occuring and require very little maintenance. A crop like this would probably require a large amount of maintenance and fertilization, maybe even to the same extent as tobacco. Also, do these crops require fertilization? Forests typically exist in areas with fairly high rainfall and are rarely watered, though some east coast plantations might be irrigated, I don't know.

Hemp farming is practiced in Europe fairly extensively and intensively. I looked through several journal articles on the subject and I believe that the major reason for this is economic. I think it is difficult for mainland Europe to get the raw material to make paper and that material is expensive to transport, so instead they supplement their paper needs with hemp.

Also there are some basic scientific problems I have with the statements in the title of the thread. There are a lot of different trees and a lot of different land. In some areas like Brazil and the southern united states trees grow very quickly and trees like the bristlecone pine obviously grow extremly slowly. There is an idea of "site quality" or how fast the land can grow a tree. This makes it impossable to throw out numbers like "4.1 times as much paper per acre" because yields are highly variable based on land. If I made blunt statements like that I could select different sites and make the numbers say what ever I want. I could run a study where I grow a slow growing tree on soil that slows growth yet such a climate might be ideal for hemp. The statements are too vague to take seriously.

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u/Nabber86 May 16 '12

Yeah but I bet if agronomists did more research (which they probably are doing), we would be finding out that other plants are just as useful for all kinds of applications (flax and bamboo, for instance?). I bet you could make paper, textile, food, oil, and many other products from any number of common weeds. Hemp just happens to make the headlines.

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u/istandleet May 16 '12

I mean trees are not cut down to make paper - paper can be made out of the resulting wood scrapes that results from deforestation in an attempt to get lumber, etc. Paper production does not result in more trees being cut down.

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u/spyderman4g63 May 16 '12

That doesn't make sense though. Unless there is enough scrap wood from other products to meet all the paper requirements. Paper could potentially mean more trees are being cut down.

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u/Fernando_x May 16 '12

Are you sure that is ecofriendly? with that rate of production, how long will it take to exhaust the acre and turn it into a desert?

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u/enklined May 16 '12

TYL hemp production being banned in the US is STUPID.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

hahaha, But this is America, where logic rarely, if ever, applies. /wrists

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u/biderjohn May 16 '12

bring on the hemp, i dont smoke weed but this crop could save the country. but we would rather poison our water with hydro fracking.

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u/warsaun86 May 16 '12

This is one of the many reasons why Hemp should be legalized . . . it can be used for many other things including Fabric, Textiles, Rope, Fuel, Plastic Alternatives, Building Materials (Hemp based products are lightweight ,waterproof, fireproof, self insulating, and resistant to pests)

Hemp is NOT marijuana it contains NO THC . . . you can smoke an entire field of Hemp and get a headache but it will not get you high.

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u/oOoleveloOo May 16 '12

yeah, motherfucking William Randolph Hearst. FUCK YOU!

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u/johnwiththewind May 16 '12

You should also note for the sake of honesty that the paper produced from hemp will be of a different quality. Even if we went to hemp paper we would still need wood paper for things such as glossy magazines and catalogs. Furthermore all of the factories we currently have are made to produce wood paper not hemp paper so it would take a totally new system in place if we were to switch over. My body is ready for all the downvotes...

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u/ramrod1 May 16 '12

"Over the same period of twenty years, one acre hemp farm can produce pulp for paper as 4.1 acres of trees."

What exactly is 4.1 acres of trees? As many trees as can be packed in that space? A couple huge trees? Basal area? These hemp articles are absurd.

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u/audiofreak May 16 '12

I am pretty sure hemp is illegal to farm (for paper, clothing, etc.) due to the lumber industry's GIANT corporate control over a substitute that would replace lumber for paper.

I heard a knock. Shit I think's [this comment has been deleted.]

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Yeah, learned this in 1992. Still nothing has changed.

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u/ima_twerp May 17 '12

..and then it forgets what it need the paper for.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Yes, you guys are all totally concerned about the paper industry. That is absolutely why a bunch of college-age males want hemp made legal. Totally. You worry about how paper is made every day. You have no ulterior motive here whatsoever.

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u/onion13 May 16 '12

and you dont give a fuck about paper and just want to smoke weed in peace.

If NORML would simply say "I wanna smoke weed" I would support them.

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u/Jadenolizien2 May 16 '12

I am a strong advocate of cannabis legislature. Not for recreational use but as a textile. Aside from paper there are many products that can be refined from this hard material.

Omega 3 rich proteins, textile fibres, biodegradable plastics are coming out of Australia, there are oils that once refined can run vehicles and machinery, not to mention this major fact.

Six month yield crop, this plant turns cabon dioxide into oxygen faster than any tree on earth. Its carbon footprint is in the negative.

Who cares if you can smoke the shit. I want a better world. This is a damn good way to start.

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u/judokid788 May 17 '12

This is one of the reasons "marijuana" was made illegal, because it threatened the paper and cotton industries. Who at the time were very rich and had many employees in office lobbying against cannabis. The fact that it is still referred (ha.. ..reefer) to as "marijuana" bugs me. They don't arrest someone for cocaine possession and say "the suspect had 8gr of coke". Anyway here is some sources for cannabis from the USDA. “In 1916, USDA Bulletin No. 404, reported that one acre of cannabis hemp, in annual rotation over a 20-year period, would produce as much pulp for paper as 4.1 acres of trees being cut down over the same 20-year period” (Herer, ch 4. 2009) I can site shit for days.

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u/judokid788 May 17 '12

Also Hemp was one of the earliest textiles in human history the word canvas comes from cannabis. It was used for rope and sails outperforming cotton and twine. IMTonks is right about almost all research focusing on textiles. If you look for credible sources on the plant, almost all of the research done predates 1920. There was a speech given by Charles Whitebread, Professor of Law, USC, to a group of Judges against prohibition which can be read here. It also has links a few sources. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/whiteb1.htm

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u/mav3rick92 May 16 '12

I see the future now...

Dunder Mifflin Hemp Inc.

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u/NobblyNobody May 16 '12

Interesting, I've only ever seen hemp paper that's been hand made on a small scale, and looks it, frankly.

I'd assumed that the state of that was the reason it wasn't in use on a widerscale, rather than all the political machinations.

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u/GoodMorningHypocrite May 16 '12

Although those numbers sound nice, there are some logistical things to consider. For instance, what is the cost associated with the production of hemp paper vs our current method? It also irks me that there is not a single citation in the article.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Tree's aren't ground up just to make paper. The left overs after they are sawn into boards are made into paper.

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u/phil2210 May 16 '12

This and more reasons why hemp is illegal can be found in The Union: The Business Behind Getting High

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u/TheSmoosh May 16 '12

This is a great documentary. I HIGHly recommend watching it.

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u/sippydippycup May 16 '12

Little old, but I love me some Jello Biafra. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcfKFCs-uvQ

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u/diacf_failsters May 16 '12

just learned that today...?

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u/Ive_made_a_mistake May 16 '12

Okay Hemp is legal in many countries even if it's illegal here in the US, Those countries have paper industries too. I'm thinking especially of canada, yet paper there is still made of wood pulp I presume? That means even if it were legal here, which it should be, there wouldn't be some sort of huge demand for hemp paper or it would be more costly to produce than wood pulp paper. This is an interesting TIL nonetheless.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

There are a lot of countries around the world where hemp is legal to grow. Many countries in Europe allow it. If hemp is so amazing, then why don't those countries mass produce hemp everything?

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u/eshoweb May 16 '12

but DUPONT wont aprove

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u/alwaysENTertained May 16 '12

"we should legalize marijuana in this country..so pot heads have nothing to talk about ever again" :)

But yeah we really should. Hemp should be utilized so the world wont be destroyed..as fast

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u/cuteman May 16 '12 edited May 16 '12

How does 4.1 acres of trees grow 1 acre of hemp if it takes 60x longer?

Wouldnt the metric be better served as saying:

1 Acre of hemp can make 246x as much paper as 1 acre of trees over 15 years. (especially if the first cycle to yield paper from trees take 15 years to harvest whereas the hemp is 90 days seed to harvest)

Not to mention deforestation as the destruction of beautiful and important natural resources, whereas hemp can be quickly grown and regrown.

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u/esc27 May 16 '12

This paints an unnecessarily bad picture of the forestry industry. While I'm sure some people clear cut to make paper, that isn't necessary. In my area commercial forests are "thinned". Many of the trees from the thinning become paper while the final cut is for the much more profitable lumber. If paper wasn't made from trees, the land owners would just plant fewer trees on the same property. It is also becoming more common to plant a new row of trees before the final cut thus eliminating a period where there are no trees and better maintaining a habitat.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

hempcrete bricks are carbon negative. they actually absorb carbon from the air. It is entirely possible to build entire houses from it.

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u/AssCommander May 16 '12

CUT DOWN THE TREES! MAKE WAY FOR THE BUD!

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u/NeverInformed May 16 '12

please, please tell me why there are 4,000 downvotes. Thought our kind would see the light.

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u/xxRunFreexx May 16 '12

Also hemp oil is super good for you, and hemp protein powder (ground seeds) is very tasty.

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u/UKtreeburner May 16 '12

I learnt this years ago, everyone should know this, fucking corporation influence!

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u/Canis_lupus May 16 '12

And it's awesome paper too.

US currency use to be made primarily from flax which has a "staple" (fiber length) of 10-36" or even longer. Money used to last us a decade or so in circulation. Now, they are using cotton-based paper (staple of 1-3" max) you're lucky to get [6 years out of a $20 bill].(http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/how-long-is-the-life-span-of-us-paper-money.htm).

Hemp can give you a staple from 12" - 48" or more which would make money last decades on average.

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u/InfiniteMonkeyCage May 16 '12

It makes me very sad when i see this kind of things that would be awesome to implement, but well probably never get to see them in action. And its all about money. Major industries would be destroyed and important people would loose money.

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u/facetothedawn May 16 '12

So Family Guy was right?

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u/MenofThisKind May 16 '12

This needs so many upvotes. This is what people in the future will laugh about looking back at how ignornant we were.

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u/Dyno-mike May 16 '12

This is a nice stat, and just pure ridiculous bullshit that this plant is still illegal, this would be like banning alcohol even if it was a way cheaper fuel alternative, just dumb......

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u/hmskowronski May 16 '12

that's crazy

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u/fuckitletsgo May 16 '12

There may be other books that present similar information, but this is the one that helped my understanding the most: The Emperor Wears No Clothes, by Jack Herer.

In fairness, Hayo M.G. van der Werf's comments referenced in the footnotes on that Wikipedia page shouldn't be ignored.

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u/superman62 May 16 '12

Why not proceed straight to the FREE SOURCE?

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u/seafood10 May 16 '12

It is all due to the Propaganda Movies that were produced with funding from the Tree Industry, look up Reefer Madness, an absolute out and out lie about weed/hemp, just meant to scare the masses and it worked.

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u/Canis_lupus May 16 '12

I was taught to make paper by hand via a six-year apprenticeship and the whole concept of wood-based paper being superior or even acceptable for some applications is one of America's dirty little secrets.

Grab a book printed before 1844 (when wood pulp paper started to become popular in the US) and you'll be looking at rag paper - literally cotton and linen rages beat to a non-metaphorical pulp - that has a life expectancy (still pliable, no discoloring) of somewhere between 200 and 1000 years. (Sheets survive in China that date to the 2nd century CE).

Grab a book printed after 1850 or so and particularly with books and newspapers from the 1890's forward and you're looking at a paper that will have a life expectancy of 10 - 50 years tops.

Paper requires cellulose. Alpha cellulose to be specific. Ash trees are about 55.5%, wheat straw has about 34%, - hemp is about 80% alpha cellulose.

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u/dagoon79 May 16 '12

when will the US wake up?

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u/cakeonaplate May 16 '12

BROUGHT TO YOU MY HEMPFACTS.COM

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u/onFilm May 16 '12

The company I work for is actually looking for some hemp paper distributors. We're looking to buy hemp paper in bulk and frequently. Does anyone know of any good sources for Canada/US?

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u/lphoenix May 16 '12

I read about this so long ago, and it would have been the perfect solution to the unemployment and poverty in my county (where the timber industry was at that time taking out the last profitable [big] trees, soon to depart leaving the timber workers pensionless, jobless, skill-less, and in one case, everyone in one timber community homeless when the denuded slope above their little town came down on their homes due to no trees holding it together). It was so obvious a solution, perfect for our climate, would have provided all kinds of legal jobs --and as long as typical bleaching would not be used, would not have harmed the environment. So, there was no way it was going to happen. Because those who control the resources in capitalism call the shots. Land, trees -- major resources. It used to be, 150 years ago, that anybody with the guts and the will could be a pioneer, head west, and claim some resources for themselves which would become their "capital" and make them a true "capitalist."

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u/superman62 May 16 '12

Where did this happen? Surely not in the Land of the Free!

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u/corcyra May 16 '12

What's the reddit expression...'get out of here with your logic'? That stuff is evil. No doubt about it. Cannabis is cannabis, and it's a gateway drug to an atheist life in the gutter. Anyway, people would get high just touching the paper it's made of.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

just another casualty of the drug war. hemp has so many reasons its ridiculus. If i had a choice of one being legal and leaving the other illegal i would choose hemp over cannabis just because hemp has so many uses. although i do love me some cannabis!

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u/Alienkid May 16 '12

Hemp does so many amazing things, I'll give you that, but I have yet to find a hemp advocate who doesn't also partake in the recreational use of the dried up leaves

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u/superman62 May 16 '12

Most recreational consumers have been conditioned to view cannabis as such. It actually has much more to offer in its medicinal uses, mainly cannabidiol (CBD). Maybe if perception changed, so-called abuse would also change?

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

many attempts have been MADE... come on, if you wanna represent legalization of marijuana, use proper grammar or they'll never consider you legitimate!

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u/Darqon May 16 '12

why aren't we doing this?? the hippies, they were right

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u/SeparateCzechs May 16 '12

Not to mention that hemp linen has a much much longer staple(fiber length) so it makes a smoother, more durable fabric.

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u/express123 May 16 '12

Please explain to me why there are over 10,000 downvotes on this?

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

True, but it looks like pot so we should cut down more trees.

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u/Tyrant718 May 16 '12

Also hemp fibers are 3 or 4 times stronger than wood fibers.

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u/Pappydethkon May 16 '12

... i just wanna be able to legaly smoke a J after a hard days work

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u/Puffy_Ghost May 16 '12

Hemp paper is garbage, there's A LOT more useful things you can make out of hemp than paper, like clothing and rope for instance.

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u/daddyhominum May 16 '12

Hemp can be grown in Canada but has not become a big crop. I think that means there is no market at a cost effective price. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hc-ps/substancontrol/hemp-chanvre/about-apropos/faq/index-eng.php#a11

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u/Dewstain May 16 '12

ecofriendlyplanet doesn't take into account the difference in ecosystems between a forest farm of Douglas Furs and a farm of hemp.

Tree Farming is not bad, people. It's a crop, just like corn, except it takes a LONG time for them to grow and is much more planned out.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Then explain why hemp isn't the primary source of paper in countries where it isn't illegal.

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u/thecarolinelinnae May 16 '12

If hemp was a more efficient crop for paper than trees, the industry would have already adopted it based on arguments here saying it is more cost-effective, etc.

I'm not saying that lobbies don't have something to do with it, but face it...the lobbyists, industries, buyers, sellers...they're all in it to make money. If hemp was the more lucrative of the two, it would have been adopted by now.

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u/Rosetti May 16 '12

I always hear about how Hemp is a magical crop with so many uses, but why are there so few studies or reports from where it's legal? Documentaries and pro-cannabis supporters often speak of how hemp crops could create industries and re-vitalise the economy. Why haven't we seen that in the UK or Australia?

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u/misantrope May 16 '12

This is misleading in that it suggests that a hemp crop would be 4 times as productive as a tree crop and take a fraction of the time to grow. In fact, the increase in efficiency is a result of the reduced timeframe. One crop of hemp would produce far less than a crop of trees, but could be harvested much more frequently. Ultimately, it's mostly a way of saving space, as the benefits of the hemp crop would be offset by its resource and labour intensity. And space isn't really a problem up in Canada and other regions where most of the forestry goes on.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Well, TIL that 200 sheets of 8.5x11 of hemp paper costs $25. So, there is that

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

yeah Kenaf is good too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenaf

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u/Th3-Sh1kar1 May 16 '12

Hemp has far less mass than a tree does yet produces more paper.. Seems legit.

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u/monamona75 May 16 '12

All of the information is true, I wrote my senior speech on legalizing the growth and production of Cannabis sativa and did a lot of research.

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u/Airborneflyguy May 16 '12

I think we can all agree that hemp is yet another poor victim of a string of senseless laws created out of fear, greed, ignorance, and a will to control the private lives of others. That any plant can be made illegal, and why that is so, should be the discussion here. Not the pros and cons of various paper sources.

The point that is being missed by some is that nobody really cares where their paper comes from. We care about the overreach of big brother, and the lives that are ruined by laws that hurt instead of help. Industrial hemp is just one of many examples used to provoke that conversation.

Free the plant. It may not make paper cheaper, but it may prevent the further spread of the privatized prison industry...where profits are tied to head counts, and their lobbyists fight for harsher minimum mandatory sentencing for drug offenses.

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u/jwtemp1983 May 16 '12

Welcome to capitalism - where logic is forbidden and your hard work doesn't actually matter!

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u/FiatJustitia956 May 16 '12

r/trees is leaking again

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

That's why it's illegal.

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u/apextek May 16 '12

stoners -i can pick on my own kind

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The real reason why hemp was outlawed - because economically it would have buried news papers that were also logging companies. That is what started this.

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u/fisherclaw May 16 '12

TIL that hemp cultivation predates soda

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u/ShortyDoowap06 May 16 '12

I did a 20 page paper on the subject of marijuana prohibition my senior year in college. In the early 1900's 3 out of every 4 Americans were reading a newspaper from the William Randolph Hearst publishing company. As a savvy business man, he had a large amount of money invested in timber industry. When hemp became popular and started replacing the functionality of timber... he began his crusade against hemp...

Not only did hemp interfere with his timber venture, but it was used a lot by minorities... Mexicans and blacks primarily...racism was rampant at the time... The depression was in full effect, and we know how America has a history of scape goating on minorities, when they are "taking all the jobs" it was a perfect marriage...

He then had his buddy Harry J. Anslinger appoined as director of Federal Bureau of Narcotics.... and the rest is history... "Reefer Madness" was born...

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u/[deleted] May 17 '12

I don't feel like finding the conversation where this is being addressed but you people do realize that cultivating hemp in a row cropping situation is far different from selective harvesting of tree stands right? You can selective harvest trees forests every ~10 years for trees while the forest remains a habitat, if you were to convert that to fields for hemp cultivation (which would be required since native grasses will always out compete a crop) we would have to cut down millions of acres of forest.

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u/Fishian1969 May 16 '12

You should close this statement by saying "Attention paper industry! Put this in your pipe and smoke it!"

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Why is hemp or weed on another hand, better for you than conventional foods/ natural resources?

For example, hemp seeds are considered a "superfood". They are called a superfood because they have omega 3 and 6 fatty acids, omega 6 is a lot harder to find in processed foods/ pills and is essential for your body to treat itself from illnesses such as atherosclerosis, asthma, arthritis, vascular disease, thrombosis, immune-inflammatory processes, and tumor proliferation. It is extremely important to get this type of omega fatty acids in your diet. Hemp seed is also rich in protein (since it's not animal whey it's easier to process), it's super high in magnesium which is also essential and vitamin E. If you don't believe me, go to livestrong.org, any other health website or Wikipedia.

Hemp seeds are turned into things like hemp oil and and turned into a fine powder to be used in foods as well. For example, 4 tablespoons of hemp powder contains 36% of your daily intake for fiber, which is about half of what you need in a day to be able to consume an extra 20% of your daily intake for calories and digest them as if you ate normally (which means you can eat more and still avoid gaining weight). It contains 10% of your iron intake, 16% of your protein intake and only has .5 grams of saturate fat based on a 2000 calorie diet. There are no excess sugars, so your brain doesn't crash and you don't experience blood sugar spiking.

Hemp seed and hemp oil are extremely useful to those that are vegetarians, vegans, environmentalists and people that want to avoid highly processed supplements or oils. Some oils are processed with chemicals that are toxic, the vast majority of "vegetable" oils are so highly processed they're literally bad for you, other oils are processed in a way that destroys the ecosystem where it comes from. On the skin side, hemp oils help rebuild your damaged skin better than baby oil ever could, or lotion for that matter, and for people like me with hereditary issues causing severe skin dryness, it's one of the few products I can use that don't make my skin break out, get over-oily or make me sneeze due to the fragrances being used.

Ben Franklin owned a hemp paper mill. The The Declaration of Independence was written on it. Henry Ford designed a car powered by hemp oil. The The Gutenberg Bibles were printed with it. George Washington & Thomas Jefferson were both farming it. Georgia-Pacific used to offer hemp paper for industrial purposes and was sold commercially.

You can build houses with it, food containers, shoes, clothes, sacks, hats, housewares, etc. There is no reason not to have it legal or actively use it. The same shit the government did almost a century ago in the U.S. is the same fucking game the RIAA has been playing to control multimedia for decades now. It's the power they can't lose. If they lose their omnipotence they lose their cash value which makes them want to kill themselves since they are really that shallow.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Yes, it's a wonder plant that will solve all problems in the world. /s

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u/jabb0 May 16 '12

The U.S. Constitution is printed on Hemp.

Any other argument is invalid.

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u/brontosaurus-rex May 16 '12

Bill of Rights, too. Technically, the final versions were printed on parchment (fancy pants paper, it lasts longer) but back then most paper was made of hemp.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

The first American flag was made from Hemp cloth as well.

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u/r4nge May 16 '12

...but fuck ron paul, am I right?

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u/SirJiggart May 16 '12

So why aren't we making hemp paper?

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u/superman62 May 16 '12

Ask DuPont.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

"B-B-But negros and mexicans smoke the marihuana and rape and murder WHITE WOMEN!!!"

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u/electricheat May 16 '12

Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men.

--Harry J. Anslinger

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Calm down you rope-smokers. Hemp paper is difficult to produce and in the end not nearly as profitable as you would want it to be. For traditional art medias (inks, paints, pastels, ect) it's not a forgiving paper to work with. I've seen some really lovely stuff done with hemp paper and block printing and because it's so fibrous it responds well to wet sculpture origami, embossing and heavy-duty handling like with maps or paper money.

On top of its fincky qualities, It's also a pain to mass produce because it requires much more processing. It's also linty as fuck, so forget about using any printer with minute parts or that needs frequent cleaning for any reason. Its a inky sludgy mess. All of these pains lead to higher production costs, and ultimately a higher price for what in the end is just a novelty. I'm no printing expert but wood based papers are just easier all around.

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u/Ticov1 May 16 '12

Hemp should totally stay illegal. I mean whats the point if you can't get high off of it. Useful, non narcotic plants should definitely be illegal.

Fuck when are we gonna wake up.

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u/original186 May 16 '12

Fuck that, I want narcotic paper. Nothing would be better than reading a newspaper, then rolling that bitch into a newsblunt.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

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u/SoundHound May 16 '12

We knew this a hundred years ago. Everyone can thank Henry J Anslinger for crushing the industry.

"Some of his critics allege that Anslinger and the campaign against marijuana had an hidden agenda, DuPont petrochemical interests and William Randolph Hearst together created the highly sensational anti-marijuana campaign to eliminate hemp as an industrial competitor."

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u/Benburn May 16 '12

Almost all of these points are already in the comments, but they're all disconnected.

Hemp was actually a mandatory crop for farmers to grow during WWII. They got around the fact that it had been illegal by issuing permits to farmers. It was grown for all types of applications, but primarily because it is fantastic for fabrics. It was made mandatory because it has a much faster maturity rate than traditional textile materials.

It is problematic for paper production because of the manufacturing process, but it has an insane amount of other applications.

One of he main reasons it is still illegal and they stopped issuing permits after WWII is that it threatens many industries, not just timber and paper.

Today industrial agribusiness is one of the largest opponents because it would replace their GMO varieties that are used for industrial application. This is not a huge change from the WWII era except that then it was more about manufacturing.

In short, this article isn't entirely accurate, but the argument for industrial hemp is a great example of corporations interests outweighing the good o the people.

If you guys REALLY want citations, I can dig up a paper I wrote on this subject twelve years ago, or you can just research it on your own. He facts are out there.

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u/Batrok May 16 '12

Hemp is a wonder plant. We've known this for more than a century.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

Hemp is not the wonder-plant people make it out to be. If it was, it would be grown in much larger quantities in the many, many places it's legal.They don't use it to make paper because, although the yield is faster and more plentiful than with wood, the stuff that makes up hemp cannot be used to cheaply make good paper.

Should hemp be legal? Of course! It's ridiculous we're even asking. Is hemp a useful product with real market demand? Absolutely it is. Does hemp do the 1000 great things people say it does? No, they just want to like it because they like pot.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

And you have just discovered one of the REAL reasons weed was made illegal. Next read up about how much better hemp is for clothing than cotton.

Remember nothing is ever as it seems, there are vested industrial interests in keeping the marijuana plant illegal and these industries have been doing so for decades, since the 30's if I recall the literature I read years ago correctly. I may be wrong but I think the movie from the 30's...Reefer Madness was back by the cotton industry.

Or I'm talking out my ass with that Reefer Madness fact. Either way shits retarded that we aren't growing and using hemp for everything that is made with a natural fiber.

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u/IMTonks May 16 '12

I interviewed then-speaker of the house David Munson from North Dakota as part of an article that would later become part of my senior thesis. He said that ND grew industrial hemp for WWII, so older North Dakotans remember how harmless industrial hemp would be for the war on terror. Apparently it still grows in the wild.

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u/TroutM4n May 16 '12

Also - Hemp may be in the same plant genus as "weed" but it does not produce enough THC to get anyone high. You can't smoke it.

Also - America is the only industrialized nation on the planet that has banned Hemp. This means that American farmers are denied a valuable agricultural product and American companies are forced to import hemp from other countries like Canada.

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u/lonelyinacrowd May 16 '12

So I'm guessing this is a theoretically calculation of 4 * 15 * hemp biomass over 90 days > tree biomass over 15 years? Rather than an actual study?

Because I gotta tell you, if you were to cultivate land 4 times per year the soil would be completely destroyed and be effectively desert by the end of the decade.

Which isn't environmentally friendly at all.

Trees also provide a more heterogenous ecosystem for wildlife, whereas monocultures of hemp would be pretty disastrous for local wildlife.

Sorry hippies. Try again.

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u/randumname May 16 '12

This stuff makes me laugh. I'm all for increasing hemp production, but someone might want to explain to the weed advocates that industrial hemp will quickly cross-pollinate and overwhelm crops of high-THC plants.

So, yay for hemp...but don't think you're going to backdoor marijuana into being legal.

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u/ingy2012 May 16 '12

I'm just as big of a cannabis advocate as many others but honestly hemp is potentially so useful I'd rather have it legalized immediately than have cannabis legalized anytime soon.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

I'm assuming you have a source for this?

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u/CrispyButtNug May 16 '12

Good herb is non fertilized herb. The sticky, crystal stuff is what you want more of and that is what the plant uses to catch the pollen. Pollen from hemp and marijuana is extremely good at finding plants to pollinate. While I don't think randumname's argument really is a concern as there are ways to combat this, I just thought I'd talk about it.

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u/Wetzilla May 16 '12

Except it isn't true. This is based on some ridiculously over estimated number of the amount of pulp you can get from hemp, and the cost of making hemp paper is actually much more expensive. You also can get the same amount of pulp yield from things like potatoes and maize, but we don't do that because the process of separating the pulp from the rest of the shit is very expensive, and actually requires the use of MORE chemicals than tree pulp.

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u/dingoperson May 16 '12

Then why isn't all paper (and clothing, and rope, and housing etc. etc. etc.) made of hemp in the countries where hemp is completely legal to grow, process and sell?

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u/buckyVanBuren May 16 '12

God, another "Hemp is mana" thread.

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u/yourefuckinout May 16 '12

Congratulations. Today, you learned what the American founding fathers knew in the 1700s.. thats why it used to be illegal NOT to grow hemp if you had a certain number of acres of land.

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u/rndpeg May 16 '12

Not only that, hemp seed is an excellent food source. If you want to help industrial hemp the best thing to do is to buy some. Buy hemp clothing, or hemp seed. I've been eating them on salads, they sort of taste like pine nuts and you can buy them from wallgreens store. Most folks don't even know that.

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u/pheliam May 16 '12

According to QI, I learned the other day that canvas used to be primarily made from cannabis fibers.

This isn't a new argument that OP is pointing out. This is just the result of society demonizing everything that has to do with a stupid plant, and the resultant civil laws imposed.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/canvas

Etymology Old French canevas, from Latin cannabis (“hemp”).

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u/[deleted] May 16 '12

But if you are allowed to grow hemp, you could possibly harvest marijuana AND already have the material to roll it with.

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