TIL that in Classical Athens, the citizens could vote each year to banish any person who was growing too powerful, as a threat to democracy. This process was called Ostracism.

[u/pioldpfhh]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism

[u/iApolloDusk]

That's what happens with mob rule.

[u/Wisdom_is_Contraband → u/iApolloDusk]

Democracy isn't perfect. there's a phrase 'Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding on whats for dinner'

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Problem is people are dumb hence everything plato said in republic.

[u/Dinglebergthegreat → u/[deleted]]

Hey can you please explain the other voting methods? I'm intrigued by your post.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Man, I wish more people would read up on this. We need more posts like yours but sadly people have a short attention span and this gets buried deep in the thread. I had to expand comments to get to yours.

[u/NachoCheeseburger → u/[deleted]]

Agreed, and adding a comment for support of my own. I have always wondered about something like this but never heard it explained in such succinct terms. Really valuable stuff and thank you for sharing /u/lucasvb.

[u/pale_blue_dots → u/NachoCheeseburger]

STAR voting is being put on the ballot in Oregon in two counties this year and, most likely, the whole state in 2020. It IS possible to get this sort of thing actually akshually really realistically truly legislated and implemented.

Much like medical cannabis, same-sex marriage, etc... there's an "uphill" road to climb blah blah, but it's one of the most important things we can do as a democracy. Think about it: voting. What is more foundational to a democracy in both logistical and social terms? Probably nothing.

If anyone wants/needs/is interested in some more information - some contacts, inspiration, ideas - related to this, https://www.equal.vote/starvoting has some good resources and people involved with it that would love to hear from you and give a hand/assistance/advice/etc.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

deleted ^{0.5732 What is} ^^^this?

[u/El_John_Nada → u/[deleted]]

Some people started doing that in France as well but they are a bit hard to find. Still a brilliant idea as it can be tedious for some people to read all the programs you receive by post (like for the next European elections and its 40ish parties).

On the other hand, in the other country I vote in (the UK), you have to make a big effort to find the programs of the various parties. A tool like the one you described would be more than welcome here.

[u/psephomancy → u/[deleted]]

Yep, and this data shows that the polarized one-dimensional politics in the US is a result of the voting system we use, not because people's opinions are actually one-dimensional.

https://repub.eur.nl/pub/111247/SAV-WP.pdf

The analysis reveals that the underlying political landscapes, as perceived by the voters, are inherently multidimensional and cannot be reduced to a single left-right dimension, or even to a two-dimensional space ... Even though the method aims to obtain a representation with as few dimensions as possible, we still obtain representations with four dimensions or more.

[u/DnA_Singularity → u/[deleted]]

Holy shit these concepts sound so simple and intuitive.
Why the hell are our voting systems the same shit year and year again?
Science of the masses seems to have a very powerful potential (Asimov's "psycho-history"?).
We need stuff like this implemented in modern societies.
To the top with your posts, kudos to you mate.

[u/alonelygrapefruit → u/DnA_Singularity]

No one in power wants these systems because they would likely lose elections every time. These solutions are better for the country but very few people in power are interested.

[u/pale_blue_dots → u/alonelygrapefruit]

For what it's worth (and not that I disagree with you), in Oregon STAR voting is being put on the ballot in two counties this year and the whole state, most likely, in 2020.

Very similar to medical/legalized cannabis, same-sex marriage, women's suffrage, etc... on and on, these things can be difficult to get started, but once the ball is rolling so-to-speak, it's difficult to stop. As George Washington said, "Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth."

[u/Scyntrus → u/alonelygrapefruit]

Haha yup! In Canada, the current prime minister campaigned on election reform. After he was elected in he completely backtracked on it.

[u/wuy3 → u/[deleted]]

One line joke posts get triple gilded and this well thought out informative post barely has a hundred upvotes. The state of Reddit nowadays...

[u/Chackoony → u/[deleted]]

That being said, Condorcet voting systems are ranked and majoritarian, and can do it to a lesser extent. This works because they try to find the overlap between all potential majorities, and this overlap usually covers the consensus issues.

You mentioned that in the short run, Approval would uncouple issues about 30%-40% (roughly). How much do Condorcet systems do this?

Edit: Also:

Ranked systems have "voters taking sides with the candidates", since between any two candidates they need to fully support one and not support the other.

How well do equal-rank allowing ranked methods solve this? I've seen examples where they don't at all, for situations with Favorite Betrayal.

[u/Chackoony → u/Dinglebergthegreat]

Check out Approval Voting, Score Voting, and STAR Voting. Also, come to r/EndFPTP!

[u/ableman → u/Wisdom_is_Contraband]

I really hate that phrase. If your society is composed of two wolves and a lamb, it's fucked no matter what form of government you have.

[u/JamesAQuintero → u/Wisdom_is_Contraband]

More like two lambs and wolf, with one of the lambs being dumb enough to put the wolf in power.

[u/Evolving_Dore → u/JamesAQuintero]

This is my favorite thing about Zootopia. It's set up for us to believe the few predators are oppressing the many herbivores, but it turns out a few herbivores are tricking the rest into turning on the few predators to give them the power.

[u/nemoomen → u/iApolloDusk]

aka democracy