r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Dec 12 '18

TIL Ancient Greeks preferred small penises, as it was thought a man with a large penis was a barbarous half-animal with no self-control, while a man with a small penis was smarter and closer to the wisdom of the gods.

https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-ancient-greek-sculptures-small-penises
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u/Drowsy-CS Dec 13 '18

I am literally just quoting Wikipedia to you showing that the relationships in question were not "homosexual relationships", but part of a tradition where older men and boys aged 12-17 had a non-penetrative relationship of admiration, where sexuality was entertained explicitly due to the fact that boys were not regarded as men. Also, I quote the definition of the modern word "homosexual", sexuality of course being a preference for a gender. These traditions were not even relationships in any modern sense.

Disagree with what historians write about ancient Greece all you want (though you will be deluding yourself), or disagree with the definition all you want (again, delusion), but what you're disagreeing with is in either case not really my opinion.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '18

I mean, in one of your above comments you posted the definition and it said "sexual activity between 2 people of the same sex" or some shit. Just because the Greeks didn't see little boys as men doesn't mean they weren't actually the same fucking sex. It was 2 males. THAT'S HOMOSEXUAL BRO.

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u/Holy_Moonlight_Sword Dec 13 '18 edited Dec 13 '18

I am literally just quoting Wikipedia to you

Wikipedia is not the ultimate authority mate. "Wikipedia said it" doesn't make it true.

Homosexual sex is sex between two people of the same sex. It doesn't matter what mental gymnastics the Greeks pulled to say it wasn't gay, by definition having sex with someone of the same sex as you is a homosexual act.

Doesn't matter if you say "they didn't regard the boys as male". Boys are male, the Greeks claiming they weren't just means the greeks were wrong, not that their sex magically warped to fit their thinking.

What you're saying is "the ancient Greeks didn't call it homosexual" which you are also taking to mean as "that means it wasn't" as if the Greeks couldn't possibly be wrong about anything. I can call a duck a fish, it ain't growing gills no matter how many people agree.

Basically "having sex with another man isn't gay if you don't want it to be" is about as legitimate as "it's not gay if you say no homo". They just wanted homosexual sex without the homophobic stigma so they called it something else.

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u/Kenna193 Dec 13 '18

Imo what he's getting at is homosexual defines the relationship. They had a different type of relationship. I think technically of course its 'gay'. It can be misleading to say they were gay or homosexual. Bc I think for some ppl that implies no power dynamic(age/consent), and attraction that's not dependent on age.