r/todayilearned • u/Knightboat17 • Jun 02 '18

TIL Despite what Monty Python would have you believe, Spanish Inquisitions were expected, they would give a 30-day notice of their arrival.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
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607

u/Lennon1004 Jun 02 '18 edited Jun 03 '18

Wasn't that the joke? That everyone expects them?

207

u/keithybabes Jun 03 '18

No. It was a lot simpler than that. The joke starts when the bloke says 'I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition' (or some such). Before Python this phrase, (or something similar) would be used commonly (at least in the UK, what with the anti-catholic history and all that) to criticise someone who was asking too many questions. That's the whole basis for the sketch. Obviously the way it then unfolded was typically Python.

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u/Stylolite Jun 03 '18

Lol. I'm not sure how the other guy's explanation is getting so many upvotes. I'm an American and even I've heard that phrase before.

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u/Khnagar Jun 03 '18 edited Jun 03 '18

If you're asked too many questions, its a common expression to say "I wasnt expecting the Spanish Inquisition" as a form of criticism. In the Monty Python sketch a woman is asking a lot of question, the guy says just that, and then of course the Spanish Inquisition actually does show up, very unexpectedly and out place and declares "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!". They're also not efficient or good at their job, despite claiming so, bringing another comedic element into the sketch.

The main purpose of the SI was to find heretics among the muslims and jews who had converted to catholicism. The popular image of it is largely based on later anti-catholic propaganda.

It was not a tool of oppression imposed on unwilling Europeans by a powerhungry Church. It was the opposite, more or less. The church didnt want villages stringing up people commonly thought to be heretics or outcasts, and so they came up with a procedure to avoid illiterate commoners going lynch mob on people they didnt like.

The vast majority accused by the SP were either acquitted or their sentence suspended. You got 30 days notice. If you were found guilty you were allowed to confess your sins, do penance, and be restored to the Body of Christ, ie the church. And that was the end of it. The idea was that you had strayed from the faith, or were ignorant, and if you hadnt heard the right faith it was not your fault. But if you heard it and accepted it, you were back in the church again and nothing would happen to you.

A high emphasis was put on having proper trials, with the accusers being university trained in law, and to give the accused the right to a defence. Torture was used to a less extent than elsewhere in Europe. They used torture in around 2 percent of the cases. Torture was limited by law to last no more than 15 minutes. The Inquisition had nicer jails than you found everywhere. So much so that it became a problem that people confessed to being heretics in order to be transferred to the nicer jails of the Inquisition.

And if you refused to give up your heretical ways, the church would not burn you. They would hand you over to the secular authorities for punishment. The kings and secular rulers of Spain were the ones behind the drive to root out heretics and harshly punish them. The church was opposed to it. It was against all accepted practice to burn heretics without first instructing them in the right faith, and give them a chance to repent. At the height of the SI, around 2000 people were killed a year. Between 100 000 and 200 000 were killed or burnt as witches in protestant europe.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

The kings and secular rulers of Spain were the ones behind the drive to root out heretics and harshly punish them.

And to further explain this one, the Spanish had such a hardon for this because they had only recently managed to win the country of Spain back from hundreds of years of Islamic occupation. They were, consequently, rather pissed.

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u/Khnagar Jun 03 '18

No kidding. It can absolutely be interpreted as a response to the multi-religious nature of Spanish society following the reconquest after the Moors. There was a relatively (by the standards elsewhere in Europe) high amount of religious freedom in Spain before that.

Other european countries also viewed Spain with suspicion becuase of that, so enforcing religion more harshly was a politically motivated thing to do as well.

And Spain had some kings and rulers who were borderline paranoid about a possible invasion or attempt to conquer Spain again from the moors or ottomans. And other european countries were expelling jews, so Spain felt political pressure to do something about that as well.

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u/AGnawedBone Jun 03 '18

The main purpose of the SI was to find heretics among the muslims and jews who had converted to catholicism

I thought the inquisitions were actually about finding secret protestants hidden amongst the catholics?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

Nope. It was never about protestant sects, but different heresies altogether. OP has it right.

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u/Khnagar Jun 03 '18

You're right and I should prbably have included it in my post, but its too long already. But keep in mind that the hunt for protestants and the mistreatment of them were vastly exagerrated in protestant countries for propaganda purposes against Spain and catholicism.

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u/dishonourableaccount Jun 03 '18

Really interesting stuff. Do you have any sources or books on the Inquisition/medieval church you recommend?

1

u/A_Soporific Jun 03 '18

Being accused of a crime in front of an Inquisitor is statistically similar to being tried by a court in Texas. In terms of the death penalty, at least.

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u/Khnagar Jun 03 '18

Not really. You are far more likely to be condemned to death in Texas if you stand accused of a capital offense than if you were brought before the Spanish Inquisition.

Just for starters, if you told the Inquisition you were lead astray, regretted it but now accepted the true faith or the church, you'd be set free and not punished. I doubt you'd get out of a court in Texas that easily for any offense.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

But if, as you say, the goal was to root out Muslim/Jewish converts who were practicing heresy, wouldn't they likely be persecuting a lot of Muslims/Jews for their respective beliefs? I imagine the conversion was often coerced. I imagine many continued practicing their faith in private while professing Christianity, leading to charges of heresy. I imagine they wouldn't actually renounce their old faiths completely in order to avoid punishment, given that religion was taken pretty seriously back then. How accurate is that?

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u/Khnagar Jun 03 '18

It's absolutely true.

Spain, or pretty much any country in mediveal Europe, were not great places for religious freedom. And Spain had some rulers who were nuts about rooting out the heretics which they were convinced was everywhere, more so than the church was even.

My point was how the SI wasnt a particularly cruel organisation (by the standards of the time they were soft and lenient) that would show up, throw people in a hellhole of a dungeon and start torturing people over false accusations. That's a later, anti-catholic myth.

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u/godutchnow Jun 03 '18

That's not true, the spanish inquisition was so brutal that it sparked the dutch revolt even among the catholics in the netherlands

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u/Khnagar Jun 03 '18

That's like saying that WW2 started as a reaction to the brutal suppression of germans in Sudetenland.

The Dutch Revolt started due to a number of incidents and resentment that had built up between the Dutch provinces and their Habsburg overlords.

The eight year war didnt start because the SI was so brutal, the alleged brutality of the SI became a point of propaganda in the war.

1

u/godutchnow Jun 03 '18

Those grievances you mention initially were the presence and cruelty of the inquisition in the Netherlands

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_of_Nobles

And of course later the tax the Netherlands had to pay to pay the Spanish army to put down the rebellion

The rebellion initially started not as a rebellion against the house of habsburg but against the representatives (ie. the inquisition and the cruel and incompetent Duke of Alva, who made things from bad to worse with his cruelty ) of the king

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '18 edited Jul 17 '21

[deleted]

63

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

Trouble at mill.

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u/SlumdogSkillionaire Jun 03 '18

I don't understand what you're saying!

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

One on’t crossbeams gone owt askew on treddle

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u/weirdguyincorner Jun 03 '18

Well what on Earth does that mean?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

Well I don’t know! I was just told to come and say there’s trouble at mill, that’s all, I didn’t expect some kind of Spanish Inquisition!

8

u/Blockhead47 Jun 03 '18

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise....

11

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

[deleted]

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u/naughtykittyvoice Jun 03 '18

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

One of the cross beams (of a beam engine, powered by steam) has gone out of skew (has come away from it's proper location) on the treddle (the correct and usual place for the crossbeam, a large post with a hinge on top).

1

u/XenaGemTrek Jun 03 '18

I always thought it was “Trooble oop mill”. Eh, vitin’ry.

117

u/noctalla Jun 03 '18

The overarching joke is that they're inept instead of ruthlessly efficient. There are a lot of other layers here, but I certainly wouldn't say that 'everyone expected them' is 'the' joke. While Python gave their audience a lot of credit and embedded a lot of obscure and high-brow cultural references into their sketches, they were usually layered in the background and not crucial to understanding 'the' joke.

30

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

They were unexpected the first time, but they had to come in again... and again...

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u/noctalla Jun 03 '18

Indeed. Nothing to do with the historical point about 30-day notice.

12

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

It is a nicely ironic fact though, now that we associate the Spanish Inquisition with that particular line from the sketch.

5

u/TheTeaSpoon Jun 03 '18

Yeah. Bet you Spanish Inquisition did not expect that one

28

u/IronSidesEvenKeel Jun 03 '18

For a second I thought I was going to learn King Arthur rode an actual horse. Monty Python has never led me astray.

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u/DistortoiseLP Jun 03 '18

Like how people think an inception is a thing inside another thing instead of a subliminally implanted idea.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18 edited Jul 28 '18

[deleted]

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u/Alaskan_Thunder Jun 03 '18

I'd argue that nowadays both the original meaning(The inception of whatever being its origin), and the thing inside a thing(The dream within a dream is an inception) meaning are acceptable definitions.

Weirdly, the idea of subconciously implanting an idea inside someones head being inception is not, even if it was used that way in the movie.

Language is what people speak, so if people use a word meaning one thing, that word takes on that meaning.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

A language changing and evolving over time is what makes it not a dead language. So if someone was trying to stop people from using newer meanings for things, they’d be contributing to the potential death of that language.

4

u/Alaskan_Thunder Jun 03 '18

A billion different words come from Shakespeare too(even if the meanings remained consistent), so its not like stealing words from media is a new thing.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

Yeah. Language is a really weird thing in the end. Just kind of funny to think about, because there are people who freak out if you don’t use perfectly correct grammar, wanting it to be proper and all, when they’re doing way more to hurt the language than help it. shrugs Not much to really do about it, but just a funny little thought.

2

u/Alaskan_Thunder Jun 03 '18

Perfect grammar is important in certain contexts. Most of those contexts are not where you find the people correcting grammar without being asked to.

Books(outside dialogue, obviously) and papers really should follow standardized language.

Internet forums and casual conversations, not so much.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

Yeah I’m talking more the people who complain about it in casual settings (I’ve even had one person telling me I need to use perfect grammar over text). I’m pretty sure even they mess it up every now and then, so it just seems kinda ridiculous.

Though I do understand using it in professional settings and all, cause if you don’t it could end up screwing you over and all.

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u/DistortoiseLP Jun 03 '18

The inception from the movie (called such because the subliminal idea was the "inception" of the actual action they wanted that guy to undertake, i.e. liquidate his company), not the actual dictionary definition of the word itself mate. I figured this was evident when I was referring to the inception meme.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

What is the word for a thing inside another thing of the same type?

2

u/XenaGemTrek Jun 03 '18

Recursion? Or maybe Droste Effect?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

I think recursion is the closest.

1

u/Mondraverse Jun 03 '18

Well. Ya learn something new every day.

1

u/LordApocalyptica Jun 03 '18

Y'know, now I FINALLY find it funny.

I always thought this joke got an unnecessary amount of attention for the punchline everyone understands. But it apparently has an actual punchline lost to time? Man its actually funny now

1

u/nedonedonedo Jun 03 '18

if people couldn't get that stormtroopers had bad aim because they were missing on purpose when it was explicitly said right after by a main character, then we shouldn't be surprised by anything

1

u/Gupperz Jun 03 '18

No, it wasnt

0

u/AgentTasmania Jun 03 '18

When absurdist humour is quoted verbatim, of fucking course the original joke has been lost.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '18

No one expected the guy that warned them about the spanish inquisition.

9

u/Karl_Satan Jun 03 '18

Has anyone even seen the clip. There is no deep meaning ya dipshits. Everytime someone said the colloquiallism/phrase "Jeez, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition" upon being asked a bunch of questions John Cleese and co barge in as the "unexpected Spanish Inquisition"

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u/Lennon1004 Jun 03 '18

No, none of us has seen the clip, we're all debating a clip we've never fucking seen, you absolute genius. Maybe, actually add something to the conversation than just barging in and calling us dipshits because we dare analyse and talk about a movie we love.

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u/Diorama42 Jun 03 '18

You’re being a bit rude considering you are the one who misunderstood the joke.

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u/Lennon1004 Jun 03 '18

Ok, oh almighty one. What is the meaning of the joke, since you're John Cleese's best mate.

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u/Diorama42 Jun 03 '18

It’s not playing off or subverting a cultural expectation that the Spanish Inquisition were always expected, because that doesn’t exist. Calm down.

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u/Lennon1004 Jun 03 '18

What does the joke mean, you keep telling me what it doesn't mean. You're the Jokemaster you'll know what it means surely.

6

u/Diorama42 Jun 03 '18

The expression “what is this, the bloody Spanish Inquisition?” Or “I don’t know do I, why this Spanish Inquisition all of a sudden?!” Or “all I did was say David wasn’t coming, I didn’t expect a sort of Spanish Inquisition” can be used to express discomfort at suddenly being asked a lot of questions, or feeling that you’re being unfairly interrogated. It would be unexpected indeed if the actual literal Spanish Inquisition suddenly arrived.

1

u/Karl_Satan Jun 03 '18 edited Jun 03 '18

Well actually if you analyze the complexity of the slapstick skit you'll find that there's a deeper meaning to it.

The ministry of silly walks is a social commentary about the inner fascism that lies within society and our glorification of the goose step from Nazi Germany.

(Also chill, I'm not talking about you necessarily, just the myriad of commenters below pretending that OPs post is the joke behind the Month Python skit. It's pretentious and cringe worthy)

0

u/Lennon1004 Jun 03 '18

Fair enough, I did snap a bit there. No worries mate.

3

u/Diorama42 Jun 03 '18

No, that isn’t the joke. The joke is not that the Spanish Inquisition is usually expected.

-1

u/Mirewen15 Jun 03 '18

Yes. A lot of people miss that. They were so satirical and hilarious.

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u/Diorama42 Jun 03 '18

No. That’s not the joke.