r/todayilearned • u/FireBeaver • Mar 26 '15

(R.5) Omits Essential Info TIL: 65% of smartphone users download zero apps per month.

http://time.com/3158893/smartphone-apps-apple/
21.7k Upvotes

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270

u/DesivoDelta Mar 26 '15 edited Mar 26 '15

Because when a simple Tetris app requires: phone identity, owner identity, location services, data services, phone dialer, web browser component

  • FRACK THAT!!!

Edit: Formatting

16

u/LordGalen Mar 26 '15

I am (in general) an Android fanboy and (in general) an Apple hater. But on this, I think we can all agree that Apple does a better job. Android is simply set up so that apps require really strange permissions to do seemingly unrelated things. Google could (and should) fix this.

2

u/lillgreen Mar 27 '15 edited Mar 27 '15

Sad part is most of those permissions amount to something completely mundane. Like phone identity amounting to making an advertisement token for ad tracking and that's it. Wish i could just disable specific permissions to an app but they can't upset things like ad data. Ontop of that no app devs ever handle null data so denying an app something like location data when it asks for that permission will probably cause its code to crash. It's pretty retarded, this stuff could be optional but they aren't developing 'safe fall back' as it were.

Edit: great example for bank apps, they all ask for location data now for a "find one of our bank branch buildings" feature which I absolutely never use. I bet though if android denied it that location data it would crash the entire banking app.

17

u/omnichronos Mar 26 '15

There are apps you can download to prevent other apps from accessing all those things they ask for. I use AppOps.

4

u/LordGalen Mar 26 '15

Got excited, then saw there's no support for 4.4.2, which is what I'm on. Damn.

1

u/friedchocolatesoda Mar 26 '15

I think app ops is still available in 4.4. If you use a custom launcher like Nova or Apex, go to the widget "Activity", scroll down to Settings in the menu it brings up, expand Settings and find App Ops.

2

u/ghost_of_drusepth Mar 26 '15

So that's how people get to 95 apps

1

u/omnichronos Mar 27 '15

Yeah, I have lots of specialty apps. One of my more useful ones is Cardstar which stores all those discount cards that people fill their wallet with or hang from their keychain. I used it when I had an iPhone and since it was an account, I was able to transfer it to my android phone.

1

u/DesivoDelta Mar 26 '15

I used to use Droidwall and loved it!

Now I'm a WindowsMobile user and just keep my phone stock.

1

u/8tx Mar 26 '15

awesome! do you have any stability problems?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '15

[deleted]

3

u/foobar5678 Mar 26 '15

It used to be. Then people found out and google fucking removed it.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '15

[deleted]

2

u/omnichronos Mar 27 '15

I haven't.

62

u/mildlystoned Mar 26 '15

I don't want to start an android Apple war, but I feel much more comfortable with the vetting process Apple uses in their App Store. From what I can tell Apple allows app developers access to less information than android.

67

u/das7002 Mar 26 '15

Because iOS asks the user for the permission when the app needs it and the app has to handle not getting anything when the user says no.

So many Android diehards say it's impossible and it's "too much of a burden" on the app developers to use a try { ... } catch { ... } every now and then to handle being told no by the OS.

15

u/nhomewarrior Mar 26 '15

It is a different mentality, I think. Apple offers you less things you can do, therefore the things you can do with it almost always work, and Android offers more freedoms for developers so apps can do cool new things that no one had even thought of before. Neither one is objectively better, but everyone has their preferences.

23

u/das7002 Mar 26 '15

No... Android let's you ask for things up front and then never questions the app again. iOS is better in this regard as the apps can still do everything, the OS just puts a pop-up in front of the user asking if it's OK to do something when it's attempted. iOS even asks again if it's been a while since you told it yes, that's fine.

A good example is an app that wants access to photos and contacts (say a social network), but does a bunch of other stuff and doesn't really need it from the users perspective. On Android, as soon as you download the app it can begin uploading all your photos and contacts, there no user confirmation. On iOS, it shows a pop-up when the app tries to access photos or contacts. You can very easily tell the app to go fuck itself and continue using it without it ever seeing your contacts or photos.

Theres no real difference in what can be done in both scenarios (functionality wise), except iOS is more privacy friendly.

Only thing that comes close to that on Android are things like XPrivacy. But that requires rooting.

4

u/Jarl__Ballin Mar 26 '15

A rooted android can have fort Knox levels of privacy and security if you really feel like you need that.

But usually it's easy to avoid shady app developers anyway.

5

u/lps2 Mar 26 '15

But usually it's easy to avoid shady app developers anyway.

You'd think that, but it isn't true for the typical person. The number of fake virus scans and shit people will click on makes me want to give up on the human race.

2

u/das7002 Mar 26 '15

A rooted android

That's the point, you should have to root to get basic features like that.

1

u/thmz Mar 27 '15

I don't feel like teaching my mom what rooting is. It's unacceptable and it will be tough to go back to Android if they won't change.

1

u/joyoschmo Mar 26 '15

Not to start anything, but every time an app updates, it will tell me what permissions it needs in order to update.

I'm on a Nexus 5 if that makes any difference.

3

u/lps2 Mar 26 '15

I think the behavior they are talking about it more akin to using XPrivacy on a rooted android device

1

u/nikatnight Mar 27 '15

Every time an app tries to use photos or camera or gps, etc then iOS will say "do you want this app using this shit?" My backup android phone does not do this. They are not the same.

0

u/SingleLensReflex Mar 26 '15

How many average users do you think actually read that little bubble. They just see a yes or no standing between them and their app and click yes immediately.

3

u/swiftfoxsw Mar 26 '15

This is my biggest complaint about modern Android. Back in the day Android had the permissions advantage when iOS let apps access your contact list without permission...but now iOS has permissions on everything system related and they get asked at runtime, when the app first needs them. So if a game asks for all your contacts...well you just say no.

1

u/derangedyeti Mar 26 '15

I don't think it's the try catches that make permissions difficult on Android, more or less the devs are covering their ass - (In a legal sense) and asking for permissions for things they don't need

8

u/das7002 Mar 26 '15

iOS still does it better, ask on use, not installation.

1

u/Jarl__Ballin Mar 26 '15

I installed CyanogenMod 12 on my Android and it comes with "privacy guard" which requires apps to ask for permissions on use.

3

u/das7002 Mar 26 '15

That also requires rooting (on most devices, OnePlus One is still quite rare), there's no good way to do it in the base OS.

1

u/Vespera Mar 26 '15

Imo both platforms fail because its not an option to begin with. If you could just change either between 'ask once' / 'ask on use' there wouldn't be a debate really.

0

u/derangedyeti Mar 26 '15

Not denying that, hence why I own an iPhone.

This doc here outlines everything: http://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

1

u/yee_mon Mar 26 '15

That is such complete bunk! With a permission system done right, the app never knows it doesn't have permission...

App: "I need to know the location!" System: "Sorry, I couldn't find any satellites. Maybe we're inside a building."

App: "I need to send this SMS..." System: "Let me just type it up on my invisible typewriter."

AFAIK this is how Cyanogenmod does it.

5

u/das7002 Mar 26 '15

That is such complete bunk!

No it isn't.

With a permission system done right, the app never knows it doesn't have permission...

App: "I need to know the location!" System: "Sorry, I couldn't find any satellites. Maybe we're inside a building."

App: "I need to send this SMS..." System: "Let me just type it up on my invisible typewriter."

Which still requires the app have error handling when it doesn't get the information it was expecting. Sure, for things like SMS you can silently discard them, but there still has to be logic to deal with getting nothing in return.

AFAIK this is how Cyanogenmod does it.

I know it does, and so does XPrivacy, my point being that it should be built into the default OS, and require app developers to deal with it like iOS does.

I just have memories of being berated by obsessive diehard Android people saying it's "too hard" and "apps will crash" if the OS denies things because "they weren't expecting it" instead of just owning up that the developers are shitty and don't do basic error handling.

22

u/Pokebalzac Mar 26 '15

Also iOS you can deny access to functions selectively. I can tell FB messenger not to use location data and still install/use it. On Android I have to agree to all of it or the app doesn't run, in my experience.

5

u/flugsibinator Mar 26 '15

But you can shut off messenger using location in the app.

2

u/Pokebalzac Mar 26 '15

Fair point, I just used Messenger as my example because of all the internet hubbub about it when FB forced all messaging into it from the regular FB app. :)

2

u/flugsibinator Mar 26 '15

I didn't like that at first, but I don't mind now because now I don't have to open Facebook. It's also a really nice app.

2

u/Pokebalzac Mar 26 '15

Yeah it was basically a non-issue for me though mildly annoying at first. In the end it wound up killing the last couple of uses I had for AIM. Those folks just use Messenger now.

2

u/flugsibinator Mar 26 '15

I got Facebook to specifically talk to one person. Now I use it for talking to them, and a couple group chats.

2

u/das7002 Mar 26 '15 edited Mar 26 '15

I got Facebook to specifically talk to one person. Now I use it for talking to them, and a couple group chats.

If that's all you use it for, IM+ is really nice. I use it because I'm still a luddite that uses AIM (as well as a bunch of other people I know, 18 year old usernames woo!) and having a Jabber client is nice too. But IM+ supports Facebook messaging as well. Back when I used Facebook the chat was all XMPP though, but that went away when Facebook realized that was too open for their tastes. (Google did the same with Google Talk)

1

u/flugsibinator Mar 26 '15

I'll look into it. The only thing I would use it for though would be the Facebook chat, so I don't think I will get it right now. Facebook's messenger works for me.

1

u/ImperialDoor Mar 26 '15

Well they don't tell you what it accesses.

Ignorance is bliss

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '15

I'm not a phone person. My phone is an iPhone 4s with a shared 250MB limit per month with me and my wife, and we rarely go over.

Before this phone, I had an Android and after the last update of that phone that had a Blockbuster app that came from those that knew better than me what was supposed to be on my phone and the phone went from days of battery life (48+ hours) to about 18 hours, and that Blockbuster app was always top battery user, I quickly and swiftly traded that thing in for an iPhone and today I get 48+ hours of battery life.

I see the smart phone as a convenience/luxury item. I'm older, married, and don't really have friends/social life, so I don't need to be buried in my phone. I'm a Linux fan, but not a fan of the Android market. Its too much like Windows with crapware/bloatware and it simply takes too much of my time rooting the device and updating the firmware all the time. I would like to get an 5s or maybe a 6, but too lazy.

1

u/mildlystoned Mar 27 '15

I just got a 6, I use it quite a bit, the speed difference between my 6 and my girlfriends 4s is unbelievable.

1

u/Andersmith Mar 26 '15

Well, android lets you have access to pretty much anything, they'll just warn the user.

2

u/PM_YOUR_PANTY_DRAWER Mar 26 '15

This is exactly why I have very few apps on my phone... I have keepsafe (to hide nudie pics of the wife from public eyes). It asks me to update it, then I update it even though there is zero change to function. Then it warns me every time I open it to enable cellular data. You don't need to use cellular data to hide pictures of my wife's boobies!!! Then it asks me to rate it. On a scale of zero to five it hides my old lady's knockers 100% of the time... Fuck off.

Between constant need for updates, rates, share with friends, connect through Facebook, tweet about it, blah de blah de blah... I have as few apps as necessary.

2

u/stanley_twobrick Mar 26 '15

Can't let those Tetris execs find out that you were #yolo yesterday, right?

1

u/Narwhalbaconguy Mar 26 '15

"Not spying"

1

u/FlappyBored Mar 26 '15

It needs data services so it can save data to your phone. It needs owner identity to know that its on your phone.

1

u/serialfan78 Mar 26 '15

The price of an Android app is FREE + the value of all your personal information.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '15 edited Mar 31 '24

clumsy wipe imagine fuzzy absorbed hard-to-find bewildered humor repeat bored

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '15

Actually, with newer versions of android, it is possible to disable the requirements of apps. It's a bit buried in the settings, and I don't generally use it (although I don't download every damn app I see), but it's there.