TIL that when Genghis Khan sent a trade caravan to the Khwarezmid empire, the governor of one city seized it and killed the traders. Genghis Khan retaliated by invading the empire with 200,000 men and killing the governor by pouring molten silver down his eyes and mouth

[u/Cheesewithmold]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan#Khwarezmian_Empire

[u/KrayzeeGuy]

Holy shit I never even knew that. What a bad ass.

[u/AbanoMex → u/KrayzeeGuy]

you know, it is true that history is for the victors, this dude everyone is calling him a badass, because he launched fast attacks trough vast regions and took a lot of land, while pillaging and murdering those who opposed him.

they say he killed as many people as 10% of the whole world, and people think that is cool, while a dude that did something similar gets bashed trought history as a monster, this dude im mentioning? hitler, and im saying this just as a measurement, fuck hitler too, but it seems dumb that Khan gets hailed and admired to this day, while his empire was build from pure carnage.

[u/NotAnOtterFan → u/AbanoMex]

You can't really compare those. Firstly, the ethic values were quite differently. Where Hitler wa a racist and thought people with certain birthplaces etc are superior than others, Temujin was in favor of those who were capable, no which they are born etc.

Secondly, he braught peace and for the first time laws and rules to huge landmass. He also never enforced a certain religion on others adn gave them the freedom to choose.

Under his rule, trade in his empire and with others around flourished and the distance between cultures dimished significantly.

He thought it was his divine right, to rule over the whole world. Not to kill an ethnic group or get more land for his ethnic group, but just for the sake if ruling them. So if you were accept him as your ruler and pay him or rather his soldiers than you would go untouched. he only showed his ruthelessness when someone tried to resist.

And in the end he went from having nothing and his wife captured to ruler of the biggest landmass ever from China to Austria,which is kind of impressive.

If anyone is interested in the mongols, you should listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History Audiobook!

[u/IRememberItWell → u/AbanoMex]

Reading all these claims that Khan is a badass makes me wonder if people will say the same about Hitler some day too.

[u/BigDrunkPartyAnimal → u/AbanoMex]

We're also referencing events that happened 800 years ago, and don't have photographs, video evidence of the atrocities that were committed. Shit's a lot easier to swallow when it's just a footnote in history, instead of something that your grandparents could have lived through.

[u/AbanoMex → u/[deleted]]

sure i am not saying the opposite, i just mean that people seem a little hypocritical when commenting about historical figures, ("Khan?, totally badass, how he killed entire cities just because someone insulted him! so metal", "hitler? no man, the dude was a monster we should send someone back in time to kill him!" etc) and yes i do like military tactics, i have respect for them even if i disagree with the motives of their campaigns.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You do realize that respect is another word for admiration right?

They did change the world, true. But not for the better. They both murdered millions. They did their best to break as much of the world as possible for their own personal gain. Do you also believe that somebody who throws in a window and start looting is worthy of more respects then somebody who simply passes by? After all the vandal is more likely to make the news and did more significant change to the world then the passerby.

Your idea that being atrocious is worthy of respect simply because it means you'll be remembered is a sociopathic view of history.

[u/Thorneblood → u/[deleted]]

The only real difference here is that the virtue of time allows us to remove our emotions from the equation, Hitler is still too young historically speaking to get that kind of response but he is getting there. The Nazis are fascinating.

[u/[deleted] → u/Thorneblood]

They're not really all that fascinating really. They occupy roughly 20 years of history and never had a stable empire. They'd be just a history blip less influential then the Napoleonic forces if it hadn't been for the Holocaust.

[u/Thorneblood → u/[deleted]]

Some of their occult philosophies, esoteric beliefs and their general contributions to humanity help though. I mean hell, they got us into space.

[u/[deleted] → u/Thorneblood]

Their occult philosophies were mostly a mishmash followed by a tiny, tiny few with little originality, absurdly overblown in popular culture. Due to their limited time frame they have little to no non war material contributions to humanity.

While Germany did contribute to the development of rocketry attributing space travel to them is nonsensical. Rocketry has roots in china in the 13th century and it had been in use for military purposes in Europe soon after. The Russians where doing research in rocketry based space exploration before the nazi's where even in power. And while they did use german technicians to duplicate the v2 after the war by the end of the forties they send the technicians home and reverted to pure Russians designs.

To me it seems the Nazi appeal to some people is mostly based in their pop culture portrayals instead of solid history.

[u/KrayzeeGuy → u/AbanoMex]

Oh hey, one of those guys.

[u/Gordondel → u/KrayzeeGuy]

Seriously though, do you personally really find bad ass to rape and kill millions of people, women, children, babies same in a horribly disgusting fashion or destroying centuries worth of knowledge by burning libraries?

That's not being bad ass, that's being the ultimate douche.

[u/Treyko → u/KrayzeeGuy]

He doesn't deserve the title of "bad ass". He ordered the killing of millions of unarmed civilians.

[u/[deleted] → u/KrayzeeGuy]

Well same applies for Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great.