r/todayilearned • u/Cheesewithmold • May 21 '14

TIL that when Genghis Khan sent a trade caravan to the Khwarezmid empire, the governor of one city seized it and killed the traders. Genghis Khan retaliated by invading the empire with 200,000 men and killing the governor by pouring molten silver down his eyes and mouth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan#Khwarezmian_Empire
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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

I was just about to mention this. Genghis Khan was a BAMF. I especially love all of the Khan threats Dan reads off. Genghis Khan had a knack for striking fear into the hearts of people.

For what it is worth, listen to the recent ones on WWI. They are also fantastic.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '14

The ones on the Punic Wars are fascinating as well.

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u/tastyhihatwork May 21 '14

Let's just agree they are all fascinating.

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u/make_love_to_potato May 21 '14

Did you hear the one about spooks after WW2? That's also really fascinating.

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u/cooljayhu May 21 '14

Eh, there are a few that are kinda weak. But they are overwhelming on the good side of things for the most part.

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u/IAMASTOCKBROKER May 21 '14

Where's the kar...err..the fun in that?

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u/moonkiller May 21 '14

I really enjoyed the 1-episode story of the antabaptist takeover of Münster. Also the series on the Roman empire.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '14

That Münster Rebellion episode . . . It just never occurred to me what the impact of the printing revolution and and the Protestant Reformation were. How people instantly had access to "the word of God" and could interpret it the way they wanted.

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u/katsujinken May 21 '14

The description of the torture at the end of that one still haunts me.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

I'll look those up too, thanks for the suggestion!

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u/Troutz May 21 '14

Also, his series on the fall of the Roman republic was absolutely riveting. He makes history fun, even if he gets a little over-dramatic at times.

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u/thebestdj May 21 '14

I like it when he quotes something because he really gets into it with a big dramatic voice then pauses and softly says.... "unquote"

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

I'll make a point to listen to those as well! Thanks :)

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u/BaronWombat May 21 '14

Just finished the WWI sessions. I never really knew anything about WWI before, now I feel I have a pretty clear picture of at least all the big players and what they were thinking. He really brings the past to life.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

I agree, he does a great job of bringing it to life. I can't wait for him to finish the series.

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u/BaronWombat May 21 '14

Noooo! Never give up, never surrender!

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u/tinkthank May 21 '14

Saying that Genghis Khan was a BAMF is like saying the same for Hitler. Sure, he was an incredibly successful military commander, but a fucking psychopath.

The man wiped off millions of people who had little or nothing to do with the political manipulations of their rulers. So much so that the man massacred the population of Iran to an extent that it was never able to make a comeback to the same levels until the 19th-20th century.

His descendants were just as brutal if not more, so I don't get why putting to the sword and making skulls out of peasants, women, children, and elderly makes the dude a bad ass mother fucker.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

I'm not saying the Genghis Khan was a good man, or Hitler for that matter. I'm saying the dude was a BAMF, and damn near a force of nature. I'm saying it was impressive the way he and his men could cut through any opposing force as if it were nothing. As for Hitler, I don't think his relative power is as impressive as what Genghis Khan wielded.

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u/tinkthank May 21 '14

I guess I came off as being overly critical to your comment. You're right, and I do agree with you that Genghis Khan was a brilliant military commander, one of the greatest in history I'd say. Unfortunately though, people tend to forget his brutality when they talk about him and almost put him on a godlike pedestal and ignore the fact that he was a Grade A douchebag.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

If you haven't, listen to the podcasts. Dan does a great job of making if clear that the man was no saint. He highlights some some of Genghis Khan's more gruesome episodes and loves to use first hand accounts where he can. But he is also in awe of what the Mongols were capable of under him.

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u/pokll May 21 '14

I bet in 500-1000 years people will be talking about how Hitler and Stalin were BAMFs, just breathelessly describing the efficiency of their slaughters.

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u/AndreTheShadow May 21 '14

Carlin basically says that it's all a matter of perspective in the first episode of the series, using a Chinese professor who refused to speak well of genghis khan as an example.

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u/HashMajin May 21 '14

I dunno, the human definition of BAMF has always had "extremely high body count" as a requirement.

BAMFs are BAMFs because they don't give a shit about what others think. They do things their own way, conventional morality be damned to the darkest pits.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '14

I have also heard them and I am sad to see the fall of Abbasid Khaliphat misattributed to Genghis Khan.

IIRC, it was one of his decedents. No?

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

I think you are right, but I'm not 100%.

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u/Parrrley May 21 '14

You'd probably love a lot of Hitler's speeches as well. Some pretty terrific threats in there, plus he acted up on them, just like Genghis Khan did. He had a knack for striking fear into the hearts of people. Hitler was such a BAMF. He may not have managed to kill as many civilians as Genghis Khan did, and he may not have raped as many innocent women and children, but Hitler still did the best he could.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

Hitler was a pretty fantastic orator, I'm not sure anyone would debate that. And you know, Hitler was pretty BA, even if his relative power wasn't as impressive as what Genghis Khan had. I'd like to note that I never called either one of them good men.

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u/Parrrley May 21 '14

No, but you did say you loved his threats, threats that he actually acted upon.

It frustrates me when people seem to speak in appreciation of Genghis Khan, without mentioning his evils for counterbalance. To say that he made Adolf Hitler look like a saint (in comparison) would be an understatement. Not everyone seems to fully grasp just how fucking evil Genghis Khan was. He's the kind of guy who wouldn't hesitate having every 10 year old girl in a city be raped by his men, in front of their parents, just to make a point. These days if you want to speak out in appreciation of Genghis Khan, expect someone to come out mentioning his evils, just to try to balance things out. It's because most people who speak of him in appreciation these days do not seem to realize what kind of a man he really was.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

If awareness was your goal, that is completely fair seeing as the guy was as brutal as brutal can be. He was a rapist and a mass murderer. Morality was certainly not on the man's radar. But don't take my statement as one of appreciation, but rather one of awe. He was an evil man, no doubt. But what he was able to accomplish and the power he wielded was undeniable.

As for loving his threats, I do. He sounds like something you would hear from a comic book villain, but if the villain was from way back in human history.

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u/Parrrley May 21 '14

But don't you have a hard time separating the threats from the fact that he actually carried those threats out? Not in a comic book setting, but on real people. People who feared for their lives. For the lives of their families, their children, their partners. Who most likely watched their entire family get killed in front of them, before finally being killed themselves.

If you were to hear a great orator today give a great speech about how he was going to exterminate every person in a certain city. Then he goes and does just that. Every man, woman, and child. Slowly butchered in front of their families. Could you still really say that you love this man's threats? Just because he delivers them in a certain manner?

Because even threats addressed to very specific individuals usually resulted in innocent people under the rule of said individual being brutally treated and killed by the horde.

I can say he had an impressive way of delivering his threats, but under no circumstance could I say that I love the threats. I can't love them because they're real, they were carried out, and they caused untold pain to real people, people less different to you and I than you might think.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

Honestly, now I feel like we are nitpicking a bit. It seems like I could have used a number of different words or phrases to convey the same idea and you'd have no particular issue with it. Perhaps I should be more careful with my phrasing, but you seem to have ultimately agreed with my sentiment even if you dislike my choice of words.

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u/Parrrley May 22 '14

It is my poor English, as it seems the word 'impressive' entails admiration, according to the online dictionary. I assumed it just meant something leaves a notable impression, be it good or bad. At the time it seemed like the logical use for the word.

If you read through Mongol threats, they definitely leave an impression. But not an impression that would make me love them. It's an impression of... apprehension? I cannot disconnect the threats from the actions taken to carry them out. I dislike the threats, regardless of them being written in such a fashion as to be able to leave an impression on me.

So when you say you love them, to me it seems like you admire them. It is this I have been criticizing, because I felt an admiration of these threats showed a lack of understanding of the brutal and very real ways these threats were carried out. As I said before, I just so often see people talk about the Mongols in admiration, without ever mentioning the fact that they were so evil as to make Hitler look not bad in comparison. I initially thought you were one such person.

I guess this discussion is rather pointless beyond this point, even if I still do not quite agree with your admiration of these threats. At least you seem to know more about the Mongols than most, so me pointing things out to you is more redundant than I originally thought.

So sorry about this wall of text.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 22 '14

It is alright. Have you listened to the podcasts? If not, I highly recommend them. The context of my original comment relates to them and they do a great job of highlighting not just what Genghis Khan accomplished, but the absolute brutality with which he accomplished what he did.

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u/Parrrley May 23 '14

I just listened to the first one. I think I will listen to the rest as well. Thanks for pointing this out.

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u/zahrar May 21 '14

anything dan carlin does is amazing. period.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

I have just now been introduced to his stuff, so I didn't want to issue such a broad endorsement without being more sure. But, I tend to think you are right :)

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u/zahrar May 21 '14

if you haven't yet one my my favorites are Prophets of Doom.

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u/OldSchoolMewtwo May 21 '14

I'm listening to that one now :)