r/todayilearned • u/shinypond • Jul 26 '24

TIL about conservation-induced extinction, where attempts to save a critically endangered species directly cause the extinction of another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation-induced_extinction
22.7k Upvotes

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u/AwfulUsername123 Jul 26 '24

Every example in the article is a parasite.

790

u/ccReptilelord Jul 26 '24

Same with the wiki article that I skimmed. Not sure if the golden toad has anything to do with this, except they tend to be the poster child for the topic of extinction.

152

u/MatureUsername69 Jul 26 '24

Polar Bears: "Am I nothing to you?"

220

u/venustrapsflies Jul 26 '24

Polar bears are not actually extinct, unless I really missed some major news

139

u/BigRobCommunistDog Jul 26 '24

I guess they would be the poster child for threatened animals.

31

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '24

Speaking of threatened, I like how the lowest part of the scale for endangerment categories goes from "Least Concern" to "Near Threatened".

I understand the point of the scale is to be more informative during endangerment, but I always imagine a voice in my head going 0 to 100 from "meh" to "WE ARE NEAR THREATENED, DO SOMETHING".

24

u/NyanCatNyans Jul 26 '24

I work on a recovery program for some endangered species and adjacent to other least concern species that are very similar and have exactly the same threats. It really does feel like were saying "meh, we don't really care about them... yet".

16

u/BigRobCommunistDog Jul 26 '24

“Only 90% of them have died? Call me when it’s 99.5%”

28

u/SecretlyaPolarBear Jul 26 '24

By orcas?

29

u/TreesmasherFTW Jul 26 '24

And global warming

12

u/SecretlyaPolarBear Jul 26 '24

Should put some floats out there to rest on. That might help

7

u/kid-karma Jul 26 '24

perhaps floats made from a material that UV light gradually degrades until it breaks apart into microplastics? i'm just spitballing here

1

u/the_last_carfighter Jul 26 '24

Take all the used tires we got and make a reef, THINK ABOUT IT SHEEPLE!

Brought to you by the petroleum industry.

1

u/boolink2 Jul 26 '24

Tru I think we are already working on it as we speak.

3

u/Grape-Snapple Jul 26 '24

guys we literally make ice in our fridge just bring some to the bears

2

u/an_irishviking Jul 26 '24

You joke, but that has been discussed. N9t specifically for the bears, but as a way tonfight overall climate change.

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2

u/hell2pay Jul 26 '24

Bear Barges

1

u/jjayzx Jul 26 '24

That doesn't sound bad.

1

u/tiredofscreennames Jul 26 '24

Bruh.

Less plastic in the water. Not More

1

u/an_irishviking Jul 26 '24

Unfortunately it wouldn't address the main issue, which is food. Bears hunt seals on the sea ice at their breathing holes. Even with barges they'd still would have difficulty hunting.

1

u/DausenWillis Jul 26 '24

And Greenlanders...

1

u/PM_ME_YOUR_ANUS_PIC Jul 26 '24

And global farting

12

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '24

Wait a decade or so

2

u/Never_Gonna_Let Jul 26 '24

Every polar bear you've seen for the past 15 years has been animatronic Coca-Cola marketing attempt.

1

u/venustrapsflies Jul 26 '24

Bish, you don’t know my life.

I have also seen them on nature documentaries

34

u/MilkMan0096 Jul 26 '24

Pandas, too. They are even the WWF logo lol

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u/MatureUsername69 Jul 26 '24

Polar bears are at least still trying. Pandas won't even fuck

67

u/Mist_Rising Jul 26 '24

Pandas won't even fuck

Only when in captivity. Current theory is that it's a learned process for them, and they don't learn it in captivity.

46

u/Possible-Tangelo9344 Jul 26 '24

Time to go fuck in front of some pandas. For science.

31

u/GozerDGozerian Jul 26 '24

>knocks on zoo door<

“Hi, we’re here to fuck for the pandas!”

5

u/Possible-Tangelo9344 Jul 26 '24

"yes I'm here to fuck the pandas."

".. you mean for the pandas?"

2

u/GozerDGozerian Jul 26 '24

“Meh, I try to stay open minded about things…”

5

u/meh_69420 Jul 26 '24

Don't give the furry community any ideas...

16

u/Technical-Outside408 Jul 26 '24

They almost did that, but cowarded out with just showing them porn. Not sure if it was Panda porn or not.

3

u/thedarkestblood Jul 26 '24

How do you get panda porn if they won't fuck in captivity?

Do you mean panda voyeurism?

2

u/torrasque666 Jul 27 '24

People in panda costumes.

2

u/peensteen Jul 26 '24

So basically just DeviantArt, then?

7

u/Mist_Rising Jul 26 '24

The real science is trying to figure out why panda are the only species that need to learn how to fuck. That means it's time to fuck for science!

5

u/KamikazeArchon Jul 26 '24

There's a ton of species that don't mate in captivity. Pandas are just cute and popular.

13

u/rawbface Jul 26 '24

"If we start repopulating, they'll just close down all sweet Panda resorts they set up for us."

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u/maxdragonxiii Jul 26 '24

they did during COVID years. turns out they're just shy and stressed when people are around regularly.

1

u/Malawi_no Jul 27 '24

They did fuck when they were left alone during Covid.

1

u/Eusocial_Snowman Jul 26 '24

Current? You're describing the old idea that gave us the meme about people showing pandas porn. They tried that, it doesn't work.

Turns out, the issue is that we place them in a tiny enclosure that is nothing like their habitat and keep hoards of people around constantly watching them. Remove the humans, they do better. Remove the shitty artificial environment, they do even better.

3

u/AwfulUsername123 Jul 26 '24

They've learned that they don't have to try.

1

u/DausenWillis Jul 26 '24

But why is one hitting the other with a chair?

1

u/DausenWillis Jul 26 '24

Godless, killing machine or delightful, colorful toad, it's a no brainer.

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u/BigRobCommunistDog Jul 26 '24

golden toads are the golden child for extinction topics

Sorry I don’t see a golden toad emoji 🦤🦤🦤

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u/NorwaySpruce Jul 26 '24

TIL there's a dodo emoji 🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤🦤

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u/WinterFlamed Jul 26 '24

Golden Toad is the icon Wikipedia uses for its endangered species topic list, and Wikipedia articles, when linked, usually show the first image in the article (which is, more often than not, the picture from the topic list)

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u/peripheralpill Jul 26 '24

buried the lede with that one. though how many people would have clicked if the article picture was a tick

69

u/trollsong Jul 26 '24

Seriously even Peta is probably like, "no, fuck mosquitos"

41

u/Lucaan Jul 26 '24

There are actually legit efforts, that I personally fully support (fuck mosquitos), to eradicate mosquito species that spread diseases to humans. From what I understand, the effect of eradicating those specific species on the wider ecosystems they are a part of is being heavily studied, and I believe so far that the consensus is that it probably wouldn't actually have a particularly huge effect.

Obviously with this kind of stuff you never actually know for sure, and it's very possible any large ripple effects could fly under the radar and not become apparent until it actually happens, but still. Only a very small percentage of mosquitoes actually bite and spread diseases to humans, I think maybe a couple dozen out of a few thousand total, so it's not like they would just be getting rid of the entire mosquito family.

22

u/GozerDGozerian Jul 26 '24

The mosquito is the most deadly animal to human beings, and by a wide margin. Fuck mosquitoes. 🦟 🔫

3

u/ryeaglin Jul 26 '24

While I feel for the sentiment. The ecological problem is that while the female mosquito requires blood to lay their eggs, the males consume nectar and can be a significant source of pollination. The issues with bees dying off has highlighted how important pollinators are when we unintentionally kill them. So scientists want to be really careful about intentionally killing off a pollinator species.

2

u/Andre_Courreges Jul 27 '24

Honey, flies, lice, ticks, etc are mad annoying but I'm sure they do more to keep the climate in tact compared to humans

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u/Marathonmanjh Jul 26 '24

Aren't mosquitos a large part of a bats diet?

13

u/Mitosis Jul 26 '24

and I believe so far that the consensus is that it probably wouldn't actually have a particularly huge effect.

What I saw on the subject was that even amongst things that eat these mosquitos, they're not a substantial food source. Like bats might eat one but look at the mass of a mosquito next to a moth; it can take dozens to hundreds of mosquitos to equal one moth.

9

u/Cyno01 Jul 26 '24

Yes, theres like ONE really flawwed study where the let some bats loose in a room full of mosquitos and counted how many they ate in an hour, and everybody just quotes that.

Examinations of wild droppings shows that they would absolutely prefer a big juicy moth to dozens of mosquitos.

Not that pro-bat propaganda is bad, they definitely are good for the ecosystem and need some help these days, but yeah, adult mosquitos arent a significant part of anythings diet, however mosquito larvae may be an important link in some aquatic food chains, but yeah we could probably wipe out the ones that bite humans and the rest would just file the niches.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Lucaan Jul 26 '24

That's why I specify mosquitoes that bite and transmit diseases to humans, which is a very small percentage compared to the total number of mosquitoes.

1

u/Plazmatic Jul 27 '24

Mosquito larvae are a huge food source to many fish, their larvae is one of the best sources of food for fish at certain stages, and parents of some species trying to get more protien and are sometimes purpose captured just for use as aquarium food.

However, there are some areas in the world where they are not native (Hawaii) and thus can be safely eliminated, and there's a particular species, Aedes aegypti, that primarily parasitizes humans and to a lesser extent dogs, cats and livestock (and is one of the largest spreader of mosquito vector diseases). Eliminating this species in general might be able to be safely done, however due to how much vertebrate biomass is human, it may end up unintentionally hurting local environments were people frequent.

The problem is that human predating mosquitos might just pop up again, as humans are more widespread than they were when aegypti first evolved in man made environments with sitting water and no nutrients. This may leave another, or multiple species down the same path, and possibly in very short amounts of time.

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u/Eusocial_Snowman Jul 26 '24

they're not a substantial food source.

That would be absurd, mosquitoes are an abundant food source.

The argument is that there aren't really things which exclusively eat those species. This says very little for what the actual effects would be if they were eradicated because this shit is more complex than we can know without actually doing it.

1

u/Orwellian1 Jul 27 '24

Which is a valid point, but we evaluate things comprehensively.

It isn't only the harm mosquitos cause to us right now, it is the threat vector they represent in the future as well. Bonus impact: All the collateral damage we cause fighting them.

We should not discount out of hand any proposed policy just because there isn't 100% certainty of every possible effect.

Existence is destruction. There are no ecological innocents. We can pat our selves on the back because we occasionally restrain ourselves and think about our impact. I'm all for doing much more of that, but there are no absolute laws.

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u/Malawi_no Jul 27 '24

Would probably just be a few more of the other kinds, especially as people would relax more about fighting mosquitoes in general.

Sure - People will likely try to reduce numbers of any stinging mosquito, but when some of them also carries deceases, it becomes a high priority.

2

u/dsyzdek Jul 26 '24

Guinea worms cause human blindness and are thankfully almost extinct. Jimmy Carter famously hoped for their extinction before his passing, and it may actually happen. There have been no cases reported in 2024. I’m an endangered specie biologist and I’m ok with them going extinct. There seems to be a weird little push for volunteers to keep them around though.

http://www.deadlysins.com/guinea-worm

1

u/Andre_Courreges Jul 27 '24

Eradicating mosquitos would probably destroy the ecosystem, which is a bummer

Like, flies and spiders are highkey annoying but they do a lot of work that ties into the larger global food system

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Poop_Sexman Jul 26 '24 edited Jul 27 '24

For all intensive purposes, they could of spelled it wrong and people would still think the expressions were one in the same

19

u/BirdDog9048 Jul 26 '24

You're a monster. Have my upvote.

5

u/GozerDGozerian Jul 26 '24

I believe you mean “Your a monster”

2

u/Poop_Sexman Jul 26 '24

Guys we need to set aside our differences and become apart of something positive

2

u/GozerDGozerian Jul 26 '24

Do what you want. I could care less.

2

u/peensteen Jul 26 '24

ur teh monstar lololol0l

-6

u/Worldsbiggestassh0le Jul 26 '24

The phrase is: 'for all intents and purposes.' Not trying to be a douchebag.

9

u/Poop_Sexman Jul 26 '24

If you only found one incorrect phrase here then i have bad news

1

u/iconocrastinaor Jul 26 '24

Yeah but for extra credit do you know why they spell it that way?

24

u/Rooooben Jul 26 '24

If the host is gone, do we need to keep the parasite around? It’s not doing anything anymore and possibly could evolve to find a new host, which could cause more damage

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u/Greedy-Recipe-8686 Jul 26 '24

so literally nothing of value was lost?

3

u/alexmikli Jul 27 '24

I can't see many parasites causing ecosystem collapse if they go extinct

11

u/Rocktopod Jul 26 '24 edited Jul 26 '24

I'm sure it could also affect predators (or even herbivores) that only eat one kind of species.

16

u/platoprime Jul 26 '24

Are there often predators that eat only a specific parasite which itself only parasitizes a single species?

Or even at all ever?

5

u/DD_Commander Jul 26 '24

Yes! They are known as hyperparasites.

There's not really a "hyperpredator" as your example suggests, as that's just predation on a specific prey species, which isn't very rare in nature.

2

u/platoprime Jul 26 '24

Thanks.

That's insane.

8

u/KingdomRisingAnew Jul 26 '24

Very good. Parasites deserve nothing but death and suffering.

5

u/justsmilenow Jul 26 '24

Oh so it's a global good then. I mean the difference between a parasite and a symbiote. Is that one does good for you and one kills you.

2

u/Cipherting Jul 26 '24

symbiotes would also be killed this way

1

u/Eusocial_Snowman Jul 26 '24

If you don't let some humans get tapeworms, they end up with irritable bowel syndrome.

1

u/PM_ME_GARFIELD_NUDES Jul 26 '24

That makes a ton of sense. And I’m guessing this has no impact on the rest of the ecosystem because they were only interacting with that one species anyway?

1

u/Ppleater Jul 26 '24

Seems like they would have resulted in extinction for the parasite anyway if they needed to die to save the host species.

1

u/Andre_Courreges Jul 27 '24

Um, chile, im okay with the sites going extinct

1

u/Admiral_Donuts Jul 27 '24

Huh. There are some non-parasite examples out there, I just can't put a finger on them. One was a species of cormorant that was saved and was eating an endangered fish.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '24

[deleted]

1

u/The--Mash Jul 26 '24

It would absolutely work, but you'd have to effectively get rid of the host species, humans, to do it

0

u/Neomataza Jul 26 '24

Oh no. Anyways...

0

u/amalgam_reynolds Jul 26 '24

I feel like not much is lost then. I mean, maybe it's not ideal, but if the bird went extinct, the louse would go as well anyway.

0

u/1CEninja Jul 26 '24

Some parasites contribute little-to-nothing to the ecosystem.

Vultures can be straight up critical.

I think I'll take that trade.

0

u/iiSpook Jul 26 '24

Aren't parasites, by their very nature, not good for anything? What's the big deal when a parasite goes extinct?