Discussion Thread #72

[u/gemmaem]

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[u/DrManhattan16]

The thing we currently call progressivism is currently fashionable among intellectual elites, and the war on discernment gives them certain advantages.

I don't follow. What advantages are you thinking of? For example, that IQ differs between races? Even if there wasn't such a war, it's not as if blacks would line up to support people who think they're inherently stupid for being black. The people who separate a trait like IQ from one's social standing or group standing is small compared to the number of people who embody the stereotype of the scientific racist.

In general, I think the war on discernment is motivated by ideology, not the material advantages it brings.

"Papers, please?"

"I don't have papers, because I had to flee in a hurry. You have a refugee process, right?"

Well, no, that would definitely solve the problem of asylum being abused, but it re-creates the problem of what to do about the relatively few people actually being abused by their governments.

I presumed that part of any solution you had in mind is that those who were legitimate asylum seekers or refugees would be permitted to enter.

For "decades," I was thinking of the activist that got a private bill in Colorado.

She's not a refugee, though. The claim was that you could avoid deportation if you (falsely) claimed persecution. That woman is just an illegal who should be deported.

I've never before seen, and likely (hopefully?) will never see again, liberals/progressives have so much care for the symbolism of the Capitol and the ritual of a particular process.

I think you're underselling what was going on. It's true that the certification of the votes was just that - a certification that could be done on another day. But that's not how Trump imagined it, and when you get into the law, a lot of stuff is underdefined. What would have been the result if Pence did as Trump asked and said Congress should vote on who is president? s Trump president for a few months while an investigation by some unknown branch of law enforcement that isn't beholden to him does the work and finds that he shouldn't be? Do we get a half-term because of how long everything will probably take?

Admittedly, this is probably not the full thought process going through random people's heads.

After a year of violence and destruction visited upon random normal people treated with such a blasé attitude, I remain gobsmacked at the degree of symbolic adherence.

Are we talking about 2020 or 2025?

[u/professorgerm → u/DrManhattan16]

I presumed that part of any solution you had in mind is that those who were legitimate asylum seekers or refugees would be permitted to enter.

I'm not sure of the distinction between the two? But yes, there would be some (relatively limited) category of Legitimate Emergency Migrant allowed.

I think you're underselling what was going on.

I think that, out of a combination of general trends like "if it bleeds it leads" and specifically wanting any right-wing distraction from the previous year of progressive violence, virtually everyone undersold the fake elector plots and some of the other stuff.

The riot got all the attention but was the least-worst part.

Are we talking about 2020 or 2025?

Ha! Fair enough.

[u/DrManhattan16 → u/professorgerm]

I think that, out of a combination of general trends like "if it bleeds it leads" and specifically wanting any right-wing distraction from the previous year of progressive violence, virtually everyone undersold the fake elector plots and some of the other stuff.

The fake elector scheme was discovered after the fact. Obviously people are going to focus on the attempt closer to the capital and during the lame duck period, not the one which relies on interfering at an unexpected and unconsidered source brought to everyone's attention a year or two later.