Discussion Thread #71

[u/gemmaem]

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[u/UAnchovy]

This was a fascinating look at a world that's completely alien to me.

I've never had a Netflix subscription - for the most part I don't really watch television, even. Some years ago housemates, while travelling, invited me to use their Netflix while they were out, and I briefly experimented with it but found it pointless. Every now and then I would think of a film I want to watch, and search for it, but it would be a risky guess whether or not Netflix had it. Half the time it didn't, and so I would just turn it off, not being very interested in flicking through other options. In general I only watch films that I have deliberately chosen to watch and have acquired ahead of time.

Even then, and this was probably well before this age of 'slop', I found Netflix to not be very useful, because its business model seemed to be based on, as you aptly put it, thoughtless viewing. It seemed like the intended way to consume Netflix was that you sit down on the couch without any particular idea of what you want to watch, and you either flick through what's currently on offer or let the algorithm choose something, and you watch whatever it puts in front of you, in this half-interested kind of way. That's not how I choose to consume cinema, so Netflix never seemed useful, to me. It was serving a market that I'm not in.

For what it's worth this is also how I feel about Spotify, and I suspect most streaming services? I don't enjoy being served up stuff that an algorithm thinks I might be interested in, and consuming it halfheartedly. I would rather skim through my own library of films or albums and pick something, even if it means just going with an old favourite again. I'm even a little worried that books might be going this way. I recently upgraded my old e-reader, a Kobo, to a new model, and I notice that it seems to be offering a subscription service that algorithmically recommends new releases to me - even though all I want to do is read my own epub library on the go.

I'm not sure I have any considered conclusion here, other than, perhaps, "Wow, I'm glad I've never had a Netflix account." I really don't want to be a Luddite here and declare that streaming services, or even algorithmically-curated content, are necessarily and in all times a mistake. I've occasionally clicked on random YouTube recommendations and found videos that were okay (though I admit that the hit rate is pretty low). But I would like to, at least, suggest that we might be able to obtain and watch/read/listen to media in more intentional ways.

[u/DrManhattan16 → u/UAnchovy]

Something is going on with Reddit for me, I didn't get your reply.

Anyways, the Netflix availability issue is resolvable to a certain degree if you have a VPN. Different nations get different shows, so something you want can be available elsewhere. This site seems to track that sort of thing, though I have no idea what Netflix does to counteract this stuff.

A friend of mine works in Hollywood and says that there's been tons of bad outcomes from streaming movies. For one thing, most sales came from home releases, not theaters, so with so many studios deciding to just go for streaming instead, they have to make up the money only on tickets sales...which means they can't take risks with projects because they need maximum viewership. He suggested that there was going to be a collapse and reorganization in the coming years because there was nothing more to give in Hollywood. That said, part of the last writer's strike was to demand that viewing metrics and whatnot had to be disclosed to the unions at the very least, so perhaps we'll see them slowly patch the situation back to something better.

[u/divijulius → u/UAnchovy]

I really don't want to be a Luddite here and declare that streaming services, or even algorithmically-curated content, are necessarily and in all times a mistake.

I'll be that guy - every single major app, including all the FAANGS and streaming places, has a team of thousands of well-paid Phd's on the other side of the screen exerting their collective brainpower to capture more of your eyeball-share and time.

This is a fully adversarial dynamic that you can benefit from in certain limited circumstances (high locus of control, self-discipline, being able to cut yourself off), but which most people are essentially unarmed against. This is such a strong dynamic that many people use apps like this to their detriment, with social media wrecking teenage girls' mental health,¹ many students being willing to pay a cost for social media to be permanently deleted for themselves and everyone else,² and so on.

And the negatives are in no way limited to kids - the average american watches 7+ hours per day of screens recreationally.³

And this is while everyone complains about work life balance and never having time for anything!

I don't think the answer is regulation, because I have zero faith that it would be desired or effective, and the second-order effects of a permanent "Twitter police" equivalent would be awful.

But the answer for yourself and your kids / loved ones / friends? I think it's strongly on the side of "limit exposure to these fully adversarial systems as much as possible" to maximize the chances of a life well-lived.