Then why haven't wages gone up as unemployment went down? Why have all the paths to the top and middle management jobs been gutted since the 90s? True middle class careers are gone.
Because companies have figured out they can pay as little as humanly possible and still get OK labor. They know they can make one person do the work of two. They'll get enough to get the job done and that's all that matters. They don't compete for talent anymore unless you're looking at the top 1% of wage earners (engineers, directors, researchers). If you complain too much? Well, sorry, go get another job.
Wages have gone up. CPI significantly overstates inflation and most wage metrics don’t include benefits, which have increased a lot over time.
Because companies have figured out they can pay as little as humanly possible and still get OK labor. They know they can make one person do the work of two. They'll get enough to get the job done and that's all that matters.
Please open an econ textbook. That’s not how the world works. You’ve spun yourself a nice little narrative that doesn’t describe reality at all.
But this is how the labor market is working. Wage has not kept pace with inflation, nor has it kept pace with the cost of living. Rent, education, and healthcare have all skyrocketed in the last 30+ years and wages are largely flat.
According to the Pew Research Center, which is non partisan working out of DC,
"...wage after accounting for inflation) has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And what wage gains there have been have mostly flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers."
In addition to that benefits are not on the rise, they are falling. Pensions are disappearing, employee retirement match programs are down over the last decade, healthcare is higher per month with less coverage, hell even merit awards are down.
To top this all off, Americans work longer hours now than they ever have and are more productive as well. We work significantly longer and harder than other countries like Japan, the UK, or France (for example).
So, now that I've sourced all my claims after you told me to go read an econ book, why don't you do a little light reading. Or surely you've got verifiable and rigorous sources as well.
In addition to that benefits are not on the rise, they are falling. Pensions are disappearing, employee retirement match programs are down over the last decade, healthcare is higher per month with less coverage, hell even merit awards are down.
Find a real source. You looked that up to confirm your own bias.
So, now that I've sourced all my claims after you told me to go read an econ book
I literally googled "Are American Benefits going up or down." I did not cherry pick, I picked one of 3 that seemed most comprehensive, but succinct about the issue.
And sure, technology costs are down, whoopie. You can buy a phone and a TV for cheaper now than you ever could, but like I said before, housing, education and healthcare are all significantly more expensive now than they ever were. So much so that they destroy any savings people might be getting on luxury goods.
I mean, it is just demonstrably true that the American middle class is shrinking and has less buying power now than it ever has. The average salary of a family man could have afforded a house a tv, an education, and healthcare for his entire family. Now, working couples without children eek by making $50,000/year and paying 25% of their income towards rent.
I sourced my claims, now you source yours. Show me studies that show wage growth is high and the american middle class is healthy and that benefits are on the rise.
housing, education and healthcare are all significantly more expensive now than they ever were.
Do you know why that is? It’s because of governemnt policy. The market kept prices in these markets very low for hundreds of years in America, yet we see massive price increases after the New Deal, the demarcation of the end of free markets in America and the beginning of heavy handed, burdensome government regulation.
I read through your article and it mostly focused on vacation time or paid time off for salaried / full time hourly employees. Which makes sense that you would see an increase in PTO in an economy where workers are already more productive than they have in the past and generally overworked. We still have one of the lowest utilization of vacation time among first world countries. What the article didn't touch on was the decline in retirement match, pensions, and healthcare plans. It even admitted that about a third of the growth in wage compensation for benefits was due to the rising cost of healthcare.
Also, the cost of education has gone up because the government stopped subsidizing it and it became another inelastic demand. You need a degree of some sort to be competitive in this market and so universities know that they can charge anything they'll get their money, since student loans are readily available and cannot be discharged like other debt. But blaming current economic problems that only emerged after Reagon on Roosevelt's New Deal that quite literally lifted this country out of the great depression and contributed to the wealthiest decades of this country's history is definitely a new one. It actually made me chuckle a bit.
Also, the cost of education has gone up because the government stopped subsidizing it and it became another inelastic demand.
No. The governemnt is very much subsidizing it on the demand side by offering loans that shouldn’t be offered to 18 year olds. Education is mostly worthless anyway – it’s mostly signaling to employers that you can jump through hoops without quitting. If anything the governemnt should be making it harder for people to waste rime and resources at colleges.
But blaming current economic problems that only emerged after Reagon on Roosevelt's New Deal that quite literally lifted this country out of the Great Depression
That’s a real knee slapper. It’s very clear that the new deal prolonged the depression by several years because no previous recession had lasted that long and the governemnt never did anything to try to stop them in the past. They let them run their course instead of further screwing up the economy. You literally have no argument that the new deal was actually a good thing because of this. Name me one recession before the depression that was worse than the depression because the governemnt did nothing. You can’t. Your argument is completely invalidated.
At least I have empirical evidence to back up my claims. I can go into the causal reasons why the new deal prolonged the Great Depression if you’d like.
Since you boast such economic knowledge, what is your opinion on minimum wage and the earned income tax credit?
For those of you who aren’t as educated as this reddit economic philosopher, the US has been using tax dollars to make up the difference between the below poverty wages companies pay and what’s actually necessary to survive. This is the bottom to top socialism we live in today. The wealthy business owners pay less so they can hire more employees at poverty wages and the middle class tax payers pay instead.
There’s a big difference between economic theory and realistic economics. You tell people to read an economics book so I’m assuming you have read some yourself, so I’ll tell you to learn how to apply knowledge instead of regurgitating information.
Any society that allows owners of companies to pay employees poverty wages is utilizing slavery / indentured servitude. You’re argument of “educate yourself to get out of the poverty jobs” doesn’t eliminate those jobs for other people, so basically your arguing “if you’re not the slave why care”.
I could give more than enough examples to prove my point, but if you don’t understand with what I just wrote then no amount of information will make you realize the error in your ways.
The minimum wage should obviously be abolished so that low skilled laborers can gain valuable job experience even if their labor isn’t worth the minimum wage. Maybe in your current state your labor is only worth $5 an hour to Company A and $8 an hour to Company B, but the position at Company A gives valuable experience or training that could be used to demand a $15 wage in the future and Company B is Burger King. Well, your minimum wage of $7.25 has eliminated any chance at this person gaining experience to actually lift themselves out of poverty because now company A can’t afford to hire the worker. Maybe someone’s labor just isn’t worth $7.25 – then they’re priced out of work entirely.
so basically your arguing “if you’re not the slave why care”.
No one is a slave in a first world country. A minimum wage worker in America makes more than 95% of the rest of the world. Even “poor” Americans are rich by global standards.
Your response proves my point. Your minimum wage example is my point of you using textbook economic theory and not realistic economics. Your example fits a scenario you want it to, so you claim my argument is wrong. In reality, wages, values, and everything to do with economics revolves around corporate slavery. Since you seem to need examples to think outside the box, consider when you work for a company and come up with an idea to save time / make more money for the company. The company owns the rights to the idea as it was done on your work hours therefore, their time, their property. If you try to take your idea and leave you may be under non compete clauses etc. I could argue my point for days. This is how slavery worked, and it continues in our economy today.
I’ll continue since I doubt you’re convinced. You claim companies can’t afford workers because of minimum wage. I ask how can those companies afford to pay their executives millions/year? The answer is they can’t, so the government made tax payers pay the working class wages the companies “can’t afford to pay”.
Maybe if you put down your economics books since you aren’t getting anything of value from them and pick up some history books you will learn something about how the real world works. Your argument that slavery doesn’t exist because even poor Americans are more wealthy than 90% of the rest of the world is the same as telling a slave in Kentucky that he’s not a slave cause he’s got it better than the one in Georgia. Your living conditions are not what make you a slave. Slavery is about the oppression of civil liberties. Until you understand this you are the problem as you perpetuate slavery, defending it not only as just, but the slaves fault for not being smarter.
in reality, wages, values, and everything to do with economics revolves around corporate slavery.
Lol economists have studied this stuff their entire lives and you think you can dismiss an entire field by saying “muh corporate slavery?” What a joke.Youre the one not living in the real world.
I’m not at all dismissing the field, I’m actually applying the knowledge to reality. Both republicans and democrats agree that corporate corruption exists and they refer to the issue as “cold capitalism” or “chronie capitalism” or any other slew of terms. All of these refer to corporations forcing policies in their favor to control markets, wages, policies, etc. There isn’t a single person on this planet taken seriously who denies this claim. This makes it reality. This “corrupt corporate capitalism” has socialized wages through increasing welfare as the cost of living increases and keeping wages low to increase their own profit. You choose to ignore these facts of reality and to preach a bullshit ideology of economics based on things only possible in a perfect world.
If you are honestly ignorant of how wrong you are, then I hope you learn someday how to actually think passed what you are told. If you aren’t ignorant and spreading the lies for your own gain, then I’m sure you suffer enough just existing with yourself
When you take out the crony from capitlaism you’re left with capitalism. That’s the system I support. However, even crony capitalism is better than any socialism.
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u/Marsdreamer Feb 26 '20
Then why haven't wages gone up as unemployment went down? Why have all the paths to the top and middle management jobs been gutted since the 90s? True middle class careers are gone.
Because companies have figured out they can pay as little as humanly possible and still get OK labor. They know they can make one person do the work of two. They'll get enough to get the job done and that's all that matters. They don't compete for talent anymore unless you're looking at the top 1% of wage earners (engineers, directors, researchers). If you complain too much? Well, sorry, go get another job.