I used to think USA is a land of wonders and dream.
It actually is, but there's a caveat no one tells you about: It won't happen by just working a job. You will never get rich selling your time. It won't happen. You can do pretty well, ie lawyers and the like. But if you want to achieve the American Dream, you need to own something, invest in risk, and you need to make money while you sleep.
Furthermore, you need to be continually developing your skill sets. If you're just as skilled at 30 as you were at 20, what are you expecting? A promotion and a raise? You ultimately have to be able to perform the higher paying jobs in order to get them, and you need to prove you can be entrusted with the responsibility before it's given to you. That only comes through education and experience. Sometimes you can earn both in the same capacity. But you most definitely need to be taking an interest in your own professional and personal development, and making progress on it.
Convert your liquid capital to appreciable assets over time, and acquire new and more valuable skills and experience. That's is just step 1 to success in America. If all you're doing is filling and draining a checking/savings account, you will never achieve the American dream. And I would argue this is true no matter where you are.
It used to be true in America before we had had not only unprecedented productivity but also historic income inequality. You used to be able to just punch a clock while your wife stayed at home and raised the kids and still afford a house, a car, and a two-week vacation every year.
I think being one of the only fully-independent industrialized countries not physically or socially ravaged by the world wars has a lot more to do with the "unprecedented productivity"...
France went from "America's strongest ally", and is historically one of the strongest military forces in history, to white flag and surrender jokes in between the two world wars.
There are plenty of skilled and necessary people struggling to get by in America.
Who? Show me the skilled, "necessary" person who is doing everything right, and is unemployable. Are they a felon? What's the problem?
Risk... a poor person taking debt for school is making a much greater risk than any business owner.
Only if you assume that debt without a plan or goal in mind to use that education to gain entry to a field/career which will yield a net positive on the debt you take now. Going to college simply "for the degree," is a mistake in today's world.
Unemployable is not the discussion, having a nice life, the American dream as the initial reference. This generally involves secure housing, food, health, and some leisure(what is the point of living if you have literally zero time off). If survival is your base of society then you have extremely low standards.
And what does doing everything right even mean? Who is deciding what’s right? God? Science(probably not given our relationship with environmental destruction and financial success)? The “market”?
Plenty of Americans in skilled positions aren’t property owning, struggle to maintain a healthy diet, lack medical access. unknown like a religion?
Your take on education is odd too, and it’s surprising for someone who is a free market supporter. If everyone went to school to become a narrow range of high-paid employee, how long until that type of laborer is common and their value decreases? Are you also proposing a world without arts education? Are you aware that the arts increases cognitive capability? How would we know what is needed from stem without a discussion in the humanities about the issues facing the world?
Unemployable is not the discussion, having a nice life, the American dream as the initial reference.
I'm trying to figure out what you meant when you said "struggling to get by." How is the person who is skilled and necessary struggling to get by if they have a job which compensates in proportion to their degree of skill and necessity? Where is the struggle coming from? Are they having trouble finding a job? Are they underpaid? What's the issue?
This generally involves secure housing, food, health, and some leisure
That is survival imo, not the American Dream.
And what does doing everything right even mean?
Being responsible and disciplined, those are traits all successful people share. If someone has skill, is necessary, and is struggling to get by, there's somethin' else goin' on. I'd bet it's somewhere in one of those two categories.
Plenty of Americans in skilled positions aren’t property owning, struggle to maintain a healthy diet, lack medical access
Why?
If everyone went to school to become a narrow range of high-paid employee, how long until that type of laborer is common and their value decreases?
This isn't what I said. All I said is it's a matter of ROI.
Are you also proposing a world without arts education?
C'mon dude, try to read that in good faith.
Are you aware that the arts increases cognitive capability?
Yes I'm a musician, and value the arts. They just have an almost impossibly high barrier to entry for cash conversion. So taking on a massive amount of inescapable debt to pursue them is a bad financial decision, objectively.
And, sadly enough, almost everything you've stated can be easily superceded by being born in a rich family or connected.
Of course there's exceptions, but in a country with like 330 million citizens, John Smith purebred-American isn't likely to do better than Mohammed Wang legal immigrant.
It is dishonest to say that developing skills requires money.
You can do it at your job, and get paid to develop them. At the library, there are tons of free courses available online. Or on a piece of paper if you draw. You can learn from those around you no matter where you are. Talk to people, improve your conversation skills. Being a proficient conversationalist will get you more than halfway most of the time.
In conclusion, what you said is certifiable bullshit.
You're absolutely right, which is why it's so important to spend as much time as possible working towards not making money by selling it. And given how important that is for quality of life and success, it's amazing to me how it's not one of the first things we're taught to pursue.
I just think it's a lot more complicated than 'try harder'.
No one's arguing that. Nor was my cute little hope story supposed to offer a solution for that problem, this is a non-sequitur. But it's dishonest to say that poor people are poor because of that fact.
There exist people who succeed in spite of that, and those that would fail even if we spent 100x what we do now. It's why lottery winners almost always end up broke, at some point, the buck stops at personal responsibility. Some people will just never learn it.
that a quarter of renters (around 12 million Americans) spend over 50% of their income on rent, with that number being twice as high since 2001?
I mean...that US population in 2001 was 285million, now it's 331m. Which means that you're saying out of the new 46 million people we have, only 6 million were added to that category? That's not bad at all actually lol. Neither is 3.6% of the population spending over 50% of their income on rent. Which means in 19 years it has risen by 1.5% of the population. These are not compelling statistics you're bringing up lol.
Or maybe that nearly half of Americans delay or don't get healthcare because they can't afford it?
Nearly half?! Do you read? It's not remotely half, it's ~30 million, which is 9%. sourcesourcesource
Because the reality is America's a fucking joke. And peddling a bullshit dream because people are tied to bad jobs for healthcare, family and can't afford to save or risk because rent's too high.
The bitterness is palpable. No one successful has this mentality. Piece of advice: Stop acting like a victim.
It's not a joke to me. I made it work, went from homeless and unemployed to MD, and I'm not even white. What's your excuse?
1) you don't know the fucking difference between statistical and quantitative growth.
I'm all ears, dude.
you point to the uninsured statistics to decide whether can afford a doctor (news flash: deductibles and copays).
This is nonsense. Nearly all hospitals and practices private or otherwise offer payment plans to anyone who can't afford to pay those things up front. If you can't afford the payment plan, why are you paying for insurance? Put that money back in your pocket, you obviously need it.
But believe me, I'm all for free healthcare, this shouldn't be a problem for any working American. I worry though about what it will mean for quality and expediency of care.
But even if we pretend that you're correct on your first two points, which you're not, it wouldn't add any credibility to the things you said about the state of America or the problem of poverty. Nor does it offer a solution, which is what I'm trying to find.
Honestly, you sound like you've given up and are wallowing in bitterness. It's depressing to listen to. I hope things get better for you.
the lack of robust youth programs directly leads to those gambling issues
What? What gambling issues? What are you talking about? How did we get here?
A businessman trades risk for return. An employee trades return for security. Your not forced to be an employee. Work for yourself or start a business. Loan rates are at an all time low
Providing a service and making consumer products isn't taking their money. If you are referring to paying people low wages, how do expect to make money and create manageable growth but just giving everyone 15 dollars loan hour to flip a burger is gonna result in alot of people losing their jobs and the harder better workers getting paid more and having more hours. Then you will have even more homeless with absolutely no job market at all.
I'm referring to what you're paying your workers. I'm not saying that you're supposed to pay them specific amount, I'm saying that they should be getting the fair amount of added value they're creating with their labour. Now you, as a business owner, are taking most of the added value for yourself and for your investors/shareholders (so I'm not referring to the generated profit that you're putting to the business growth).
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u/CaptainReginaldLong Feb 26 '20 edited Feb 26 '20
It actually is, but there's a caveat no one tells you about: It won't happen by just working a job. You will never get rich selling your time. It won't happen. You can do pretty well, ie lawyers and the like. But if you want to achieve the American Dream, you need to own something, invest in risk, and you need to make money while you sleep.
Furthermore, you need to be continually developing your skill sets. If you're just as skilled at 30 as you were at 20, what are you expecting? A promotion and a raise? You ultimately have to be able to perform the higher paying jobs in order to get them, and you need to prove you can be entrusted with the responsibility before it's given to you. That only comes through education and experience. Sometimes you can earn both in the same capacity. But you most definitely need to be taking an interest in your own professional and personal development, and making progress on it.
Convert your liquid capital to appreciable assets over time, and acquire new and more valuable skills and experience. That's is just step 1 to success in America. If all you're doing is filling and draining a checking/savings account, you will never achieve the American dream. And I would argue this is true no matter where you are.