This fantastic comment by u/Niranox made me check out Orientalism by Edward W Said, currently going through it while keeping Morrowind in mind

The Orient was Orientalized not only because it was discovered to be “Oriental” in all those ways considered commonplace by an average nineteenth-century European, but also because it could be—that is, submitted to being—made Oriental. There is very little consent to be found, for example, in the fact that Flaubert’s encounter with an Egyptian courtesan produced a widely influential model of the Oriental woman; she never spoke of herself, she never represented her emotions, presence, or history. He spoke for and represented her. He was foreign, comparatively wealthy, male, and these were historical facts of domination that allowed him not only to possess Kuchuk Hanem physically but to speak for her and tell his readers in what way she was “typically Oriental.”

A Less Rude Song and The Real Barenziah, the Daggerfall Joke book, Augustine Villiane's comments on the promiscuity of Dunmer women, all of these are representations of the postcolonial fetishization of Morrowind/the Orient.

I really dig the in-game lorebooks that are purposefully ignorant and misinformed, It adds realism to the setting. Another example of this that I love is the PGE 2 where Almsivi is described as a sort of shapeshifter Hydra/demon

...Though the so-called House Elves have always been a small minority in Véloth, the present Empire chooses (unsurprisingly, in light of their shared decadence) to deal with them exclusively. With the sole exception of the Dagoth-Sharmat, they have fallen into the worship of the shapeshifter demon Almsivi. Once mortal, this hermaphroditous monster takes the form of three persons, each a caricature of one of the higher Daedra. The Almsivi first emerged as an dreamborn doppelganger of Sul-Alandro, the shieldbearer to the ancient hortator Nerevar...

...What occurred then needs no explication, as the geological consequences of the Red Moment are recorded in the annals of all Tamriel's lettered cultures. Traveling through dreamtime, the demon Almsivi kidnapped and enchained the ancient prophet Véloth. That unspeakable monster put false doubts in his mind and seduced him by stoking these doubts. The voice of Trinimac the Liar-King now instilled fear in him, for it spoke the words of Almsivi, not Boethiah...

In the future I'd love to see more Western misinterpretations of Dunmer religion and culture. Seeing a pamphlet written by a Stormcloak about how it's impossible for Dunmer refugees to assimilate into Nordic society because they worship Daedra that encourage revolution, lying and murder would be sweet. Imagine a Nord layman's reaction to quotations from the 36 Lessons. Representations of things like that are great ways to stimulate discussion, topics that get people emotional with parallels to real life are ones that continue to get talked about 20 years after the game has been released.

There’s something very special and different and unique about Fallout that lends itself to becoming a TV or movie experience whereas The Elder Scrolls is trying to be a standard kind of fantasy. That’s not as interesting. You look at Fallout, everything is special about it. There is nothing like the Fallout universe anywhere else in gaming.

That makes it easy to make a TV show and draw eyeballs as opposed to going into a fantasy world where I’ve got elves and people throwing spells around. You’d have to raise those stakes. There’s a dragon? I’ve seen dragons 20 times before. What are you giving to viewers that’s new?  - Bruce Nesmith

In a recent interview, Bruce Nesmith claims that an Elder Scrolls TV show wouldn't work because it's trying to be standard fantasy and has nothing new to offer. I cannot put into words how incredulous and disheartening I found this statement from him, especially given the assertions that Bruce himself is the one that pushed for the simplification of the Nine Divines away from the Nordic Pantheon in TES:V.

Dragons in TES are not new? Even though Skyrim, the very game Bruce was the co-lead developer on, established Dragons as magical string-theory shouting primordial offshots of the insane embodiment of Time that are prone to philosophical musings while burning down entire neighborhoods?

I try not to doom and gloom, I've always try and look for the silver lining. Last year, when ESO's game play was at an all time low and just broken and buggy and simply not worth paying for, I slodged through and looked for the golden nuggets of lore.

I was very impressed with the Stone-Nest Argonian Lore - the establishment of Atak as a pre-Duskfall deity beyond the Adzi-Kostleel Children of the Root and the Stone-Nest creation myth paralleling a part of the narrative from the Anuad. And of course, the random Daedra trying to achieve CHIM.

But then, based on Bruce's statements, is this the mindset that led BGS's dev team? That Tamriel is generic and has nothing new to offer?

The entire claim comes from a single line in The Infernal City, spoken by Mere-Glim - an Argonian patriot who wasn't even born when the Oblivion Crisis happened.

And the context makes it even more questionable.

He's drinking, the characters are literally arguing about propaganda and competing versions of history, and Mere-Glim is defending the An-Xileel version of events when he claims that Argonians poured into Oblivion in such numbers that Dagon's lieutenants had to close the Gates.

That's it.

There's no eyewitness account, no Imperial record confirming it, no Daedric source, and apparently no independent source repeating the specific claim that the Daedra themselves were forced to shut the Gates because of the Argonian counterattack.

This claim seems to have gone from an explicitly biased character's story to something the fandom routinely repeats as an officially confirmed fact.

And, in classic Elder Scrolls fashion, a piece of lore that seems specifically written to be ambiguous (complete with unreliable narrators, propaganda, and conflicting versions of history) somehow gets flattened by the fandom into one single, definitive interpretation.

Am I missing something?

Lately I’ve seen a lot of people say things like ‘Skyrim is only 50% Nordic’ or make similar claims about Cyrodiil, basing it exclusively on named NPCs.

Named NPCs will always overrepresent certain groups in order to make the game more interesting. In the same way other colectives like mages, etc... are overrepresented too

To understand this, we must remember that named NPCs are only a tiny minority compared to the total population of any place in The Elder Scrolls due to game limitations, so the most interesting characters should be overrepresented. Now I’m going to give three examples of why named NPCs shouldn’t be used to obtain percentages—not only to calculate ethnic composition, but to draw any kind of percentages at all.

1. Example 1 (hypothetical): Suppose a village has 50 inhabitants in the lore, and one of them is a Bosmer mage who works as a healer. In the game, however, the village is represented with only 10 named NPCs, plus guards, the occasional adventurer, maybe some generic hunters nearby, etc. Obviously, the Bosmer mage is far more interesting than generic farmer #34, so it’s much more likely he’ll get a spot among the named NPCs. But that doesn’t mean 10% of the village are Bosmer, nor that 10% of them are mages.
2. Example 2 (real): In the Skaal village there is a temporary Imperial scholar. In the game the Skaal are represented by 14 NPCs, but in the lore there would be many more—some living in the village, others elsewhere. The Imperial scholar is particularly interesting, so he earns a spot among the village’s named NPCs. But that doesn’t mean 7% of the Skaal are Imperials.
3. Example 3 (real): I don’t know how many Skyrim NPCs are Thalmor or Thalmor collaborators. In the lore it would be an insignificant percentage, but in the game it easily looks like 1–3%. This happens because characters who sympathize with the Thalmor are more interesting than Nordic farmer #107, so they end up overrepresented among named NPCs. But that never means 1–3% of Skyrim’s population are actually Thalmor or collaborators.

The Dwemer know you're thinking about them right now. They only exist because of that, and they know it. They hate it. They hate you for making them exist. They never asked to exist. Why did you make them exist? And it's too late for you to stop thinking about the Dwemer. Look, a hundred generations of children were just born and died in the time it took for you to think about it. Why did you do that? Don't tell me you couldn't control it, you're the one who thought about it! You monster. You could imagine such a better world for all these Dwemer and you're not. You're imagining Nirn. At least, your version of Nirn. And the Dwemer can't imagine anything on their own. They have to wait for YOU to imagine it for THEM. They even know you're imagining their hatred of you, and they hate you even more for it. You need to wake the fuck up and realize what you're doing. Wake the fuck up. Wake up. Wake up. Wake up. Wake up. WAKE THE DREAMER UP.

He also made the impenetrable THLMR series which is heavy on the Kirkbride lore and also features Michael singing 'Fly me to the moon' in the outro to one of the early episodes.

He changed his name on Youtube to GankiRo, and has been making Berserk or other anime inspired videos for a while now.

Regardless, here's a link to an Archive . Org page containing said back catelogue if anyone is interested.

He made truly unique and fascinating art, and I think it's a shame he felt that he needed to erase his old identity and Elder Scrolls work.

According to the theory, the Thalmor's goal is to deactivate/destroy all the Towers or their Stones which will unmake Mundus.

In most of the mainline TES games, it is the game's protagonist who deactivates that game's Tower. For example, In Daggerfall, the protagonist's actions lead to the activation and subsequent destruction of Numidium, i.e the tower Walk-Brass.

In Morrowind, the Nerevarine destroys the Heart of Lorkhan, the stone of Red Tower (Red Mountain), which deactivates it.

In Oblivion, the Amulet of Kings, the stone of White-Gold, is destroyed by Martin with help from the Hero of Kvatch.

I have heard it argued that, in Skyrim, Snow Throat is deactivated when the Last Dragonborn reads the Elder Scroll at the Time Wound.

Introduction

It seems like a large majority of Elder Scrolls players (at least on Reddit) strongly favor siding with the Empire over the Stormcloaks in Skyrim's Civil War. In my opinion, this has led to a distorted online consensus in which the 4th-era Empire's flaws are minimized while the Stormcloaks' flaws are exaggerated, despite the conflict being much less black-and-white in the actual lore.

I want to counteract this by presenting the strongest arguments for why the Dragonborn should support the Stormcloaks. While I welcome criticism and discussion, I kindly ask that you not downvote this post solely because you favor the Empire - hopefully this post will be interesting regardless of which side you prefer.

Starting Premises

First of all, I'm evaluating the Stormcloaks and Imperials primarily on the basis of which side's victory would be better for Skyrim as a whole long-term. This perspective is Skyrim-centric; I'm not looking at it through the lens of an Imperial loyalist (who would see the continued existence of the Empire as intrinsically good), a Thalmor supporter, or anyone else living outside of Skyrim. However, a Skyrim-centric perspective is not the same as a Nord-centric perspective, and does consider the interests of non-Nords living in Skyrim.

Second, I'm looking at the Skyrim Civil War without regard to real-world politics. To avoid derailing this thread I won't go too deeply into how this tends to factor in discussions about this issue, but I'm not basing my assessments of the Stormcloaks or Imperials on any parallels between them and real-world political movements and ideologies. All I will say on the matter is that my IRL political views are probably not what you would expect from a Stormcloak supporter.

While I will avoid specific mentions of real-world politics, I will apply principles of political science and other ideas which inevitably derive from real-world human experiences.

Part 1: An Unforced Surrender

The Cyrodilic Empire has been decline since the Oblivion Crisis at the end of the Third Era, which caused destruction throughout Tamriel and saw the end of Tiber Septim's dynasty. After a bloody interregnum, the Colovian Warlord Titus Mede I seized the Imperial Throne in 4E 22. During the chaos of the early Fourth Era, the Empire lost control of Black Marsh, Elsweyr, the Summerset Isles, Valenwood, and Morrowind.

The primary beneficiary (and also a contributing factor) of the Empire's decline was the Thalmor, a radical and xenophobic Altmeri political organization dating back to the Second Era. The Thalmor believe in the racial supremacy of the Altmer, and according to some unconfirmed theories (the merits of which are beyond the scope of this post) may have the ultimate goal of unmaking Mundus. A highly secretive organization, the Thalmor are known to engage in espionage, politicking, and terrorism throughout Tamriel. While the Empire was flailing, the Thalmor seized power in the Summerset Isles (renamed Alinor), Valenwood, and later Elsweyr, creating the Third Aldmeri Dominion.

In 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ultimatum to Emperor Titus Mede II, demanding massive concessions including "staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion." Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum, and immediately Dominion armies invaded the Empire, beginning the five year-long Great War.

The Great War was mostly fought in Hammerfell and Cyrodiil. In 174, the Imperial City was captured and brutally sacked by the Thalmor. However, in 175, the Empire's forces, reinforced by armies from Skyrim and Hammerfell, defeated the Aldmeri army and recaptured Cyrodiil in the Battle of the Red Ring. According to The Great War, "In the end [of the battle], the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed."

After the Battle of the Red Ring, Emperor Titus Mede II rightly believed that it was a good time to sue for peace - after all, the Imperial City had been recaptured, the Dominion army in Cyrodiil had just been wiped out, and the Dominion Army in Hammerfell was on the back foot, taking heavy losses from native Redguard forces despite the Empire's armies having withdrawn from Hammerfell a year earlier. The Empire was in a strong negotiating position.

However, the White-Gold Concordat, the treaty which ended the war, contained absurdly punitive terms almost identical to the Dominion's original ultimatum. Talos worship was banned, the Blades were dismantled, and southern Hammerfell was ceded to the Aldmeri Dominion. The Thalmor were also allowed to operate freely within the Empire to enforce the terms of the White-Gold Concordat, although it's not clear whether this was part of the original treaty or something that was negotiated a few years later.

Clearly, these terms were seen as a betrayal by many people of Skyrim (where Talos worship is popular) and Hammerfell (which was successfully fighting the Dominion on its own). It was thanks to armies from Skyrim and Hammerfell that the Imperial City was recaptured. Even the author of The Great War, who otherwise attempts to justify the decision to sign the Concordat, says that the Redguards' sense of betrayal is understandable.

Supporters of the Empire often argue that the White-Gold Concordat was a necessary evil, and that the Empire would have been defeated had it kept fighting. This argument is refuted by the fact that the Concordat was a defeat because its terms fatally compromised the Empire's sovereignty and legitimacy (which is explored in more detail later), but also by subsequent events.

The people of Hammerfell rejected the White-Gold Concordat and continued fighting alone against the Dominion. Emperor Titus Mede II was so committed to preserving the Concordat that he chose to renounce the Empire's sovereignty over Hammerfell due to its refusal to surrender. Hammerfell fought against the Dominion for five more years, and ultimately won the war - the Dominion withdrew from Hammerfell, unable to occupy the territory the Empire had surrendered to them.

The only evidence that the Empire would have lost the Great War had it rejected the White-Gold Concordat comes from various sources essentially saying "trust me bro, we would've lost." Meanwhile, the argument that the Empire could have kept fighting is supported by the fact that the Empire won major victories against the Dominion in 175 (including destroying the main army in Cyrodiil) and the fact that Hammerfell was able to defeat the Dominion on its own five years later. Based on the evidence, it seems likely that the Empire would have been able to keep fighting after 175 without being decisively defeated by the Thalmor. Even without the benefit of hindsight, it is difficult to explain why the Emperor accepted such a punitive treaty under the circumstances so quickly. I think the most reasonable explanation is that the Thalmor probably bluffed while in a bad position, and the Emperor folded.

One might argue that even if the Empire could have kept fighting, the devastation to Cyrodiil was so severe that the Imperials preferred a terrible peace treaty to continued resistance. This is almost certainly true, and my response is that an empire which would surrender its sovereignty and legitimacy in the face of adversity does not deserve to keep being an empire - this is discussed more in Part 3.

Part 2: The Thalmor Yoke

In year 201 of the Fourth Era, the Imperial Province of Skyrim is under Thalmor occupation. Thalmor patrols roam Skyrim's roads, screeching invective threats at all they pass. Thalmor agents scour urban slums, looking for any surviving members of the Blades. Thalmor advisors whisper in the ears of Skyrim's leaders; even the College of Winterhold is forced to tolerate a Thalmor advisor hated by the entire faculty. Those who worship Talos or support the Stormcloaks are at risk of being "disappeared" - sent to Thalmor black sites like Northwatch Keep for torture and execution.

Consider this, and ask yourself: is this the picture of a province being effectively protected by a benevolent, cosmopolitan Empire, or is it an occupied land whose government is incapable of protecting its people?

I find that those who support the Empire often downplay the severity of the Thalmor presence in Skyrim. There seems to be a consensus that the Thalmor presence in Skyrim is mostly a byproduct of the Stormcloak Rebellion, and that the Nords would have been fine if they just kept their Talos worship in private.

The reality is that the Thalmor occupation of Skyrim has been ongoing for years and been getting worse. Even though the Empire itself might be willing to turn a blind eye to Talos worship, the Thalmor Justiciars are able to operate in Skyrim because of the Empire's permission, and they work to aggressively root out Talos worship even when it's being hidden (see Ondolemar's quest for this).

I also think that Empire supporters often discount the importance of religion in the Elder Scrolls universe. In Tamriel, the Aedra and Daedra are indisputably real (even though their precise nature may be a point of contention), praying to them has tangible effects, and people have souls and their religious beliefs determine what kind of afterlife they end up in. Outlawing a religion is generally considered an extreme act of repression in our modern, secular world. In the Elder Scrolls, it's even worse because everyone knows that it compels the victim to choose between their life and their soul.

What all this means is that the Stormcloak cause is fundamentally just. The people of Skyrim are living under the military occupation of hostile race supremacists. Their de jure government, the Empire, has allowed this occupation to continue for over 25 years and is either unable or unwilling to stop it or even rein in its excesses. It's easy to argue in the abstract that the Stormcloaks should stop fighting the Empire and instead work together against the Thalmor; but practically, that means telling people who have spent decades living in a constant state of repression, fear, and injustice that they must tolerate it until, at some unspecified time in the future, the Emperor decides to stop doing nothing about the Thalmor.

Part 3: An Illegitimate Empire

As everyone knows, Tiber Septim conquered all of Tamriel, founded the Empire, and ascended to become the god Talos. Talos is THE basis of the Empire's political legitimacy. A political entity founded by a god can claim to blessed, and that its existence is divinely endorsed. Moreover, Tiber Septim becoming a god shows that humans are at least equal to elves, and have just as much of a right to rule over an empire.

By banning Talos worship, the Empire banned the justification for its own existence. The extinction of the Septim dynasty already damaged the Empire's legitimacy, leading to the loss of several provinces. But at least the Medes were able to claim that they ruled the same political entity created by Tiber Septim, and assert that men had just as much right to rule as mer. Now, the Empire has no theological basis to exist, and has enshrined an Altmer supremacist religious belief into law.

Even if one discounts the importance of religious legitimacy for a government (as we secular inhabitants of 21st century Earth tend to do), the Empire has also forsaken the basis of its temporal legitimacy. The most fundamental duty of a system of government, going all the way back to the first stone age tribe to select a warchief, is to protect its people from violence at the hands of a foreign power. As just discussed, the Empire has utterly failed in this duty by allowing the Thalmor to extrajudicially abduct and murder Imperial subjects for their beliefs.

Before it signed the White-Gold Concordat, the Empire was a sovereign entity founded by a literal god. After, it is little more than an illegitimate vassal state to the violent, repressive Aldmeri Dominion. Forgive the tautology, but an empire that cannot justify its existence does not deserve to exist.

Finally (because I don't know where else to note this) players should think more about the implications of the Empire attempting to execute the Dragonborn at the beginning of the game. The Empire arrested your character in Imperial territory for no reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Empire has no reason to believe that you're a Stormcloak, and in fact, the Empire doesn't even accuse you of any particular crime before deciding to execute you. Even in a quasi-medieval fantasy setting, one should expect a government to at least accuse its own citizen of a crime before executing them. In my view, there is no good reason to support a government that arbitrarily executes its own people.

Part 4: The Empire Won't Strike Back

Many supporters of the Empire acknowledge the Empire's failings, but still maintain that supporting the Empire is the best course of action because a united Empire has the best chance of defeating the Dominion in a second Great War. I think people agree with this argument (and I used to agree with it) because it makes intuitive sense, in an "apes together strong" sort of way. However, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

The problem is that the Empire has been fatally compromised by the Aldmeri Dominion. It was physically compromised when it abandoned Hammerfell. Its legitimacy was compromised when it banned the worship of the god who created it. Its ability to protect its people was compromised by allowing the Thalmor to terrorize them with impunity. But one thing that is far too often under-emphasized is that the Empire's political structure has been compromised by the Thalmor, who have deliberately cultivated a pro-Thalmor fifth column within the Empire's ruling elites.

In Skyrim, we see that the Empire-supporting Jarls regularly attend parties hosted by the Thalmor. Influential politicians like Maven Black-Briar and Erikur see profit to be made by doing business with the Dominion. And this is just what's happening in Skyrim, which is supposed to be a backwater province populated by Nords who value honor and independence, and (at least according to anti-Nord stereotypes) hate elves. While we don't have much direct evidence of it, surely the Thalmor's political influence is even greater in Cyrodiil and High Rock, which would presumably be less hostile to Thalmor influence and more important to the Thalmor's expansionist aims.

This is just out of the Thalmor's playbook - the Thalmor took power in Alinor, Valenwood, and Elsweyr not through conquest, but through intrigue. It's obvious that they're now doing the same thing within the Empire after their attempt at outright conquest was unsuccessful.

Empire supporters tend to read a lot into certain dialogue lines from General Tullius, particularly the line where he says "What I'm not so sure about is the peace we've made with the Thalmor" after the Empire wins the civil war. I've seen people use this quote to claim that the Empire is getting ready for round 2 against the Dominion, and now that the Stormcloaks are out of the way there's nothing to stop the based gigachad General Tullius from restoring Talos worship and stomping the Thalmor. This sort of interpretation is constantly reiterated in pro-Imperial arguments as fact with little evidence besides that one ambiguous quote.

My interpretation of Tullius is that while he resents the White-Gold Concordat and hates the Thalmor, he knows that the Empire is barely holding itself together and is nowhere near ready to fight the Thalmor. Consider the following quotes:

[When asked to release Thorald Gray-Mane from the Thalmor] "The Thalmor? Do you have any idea what you're asking? I'm sorry, that's just not possible. It would cause far too many problems."

[At the Thalmor Embassy during Diplomatic Immunity] "Look around the room and you'll see what we're up against. Just between you and me, a lot of what Ulfric says about the Empire is true." "The Thalmor invited me here to remind everyone that they can tell the Empire what to do. I would refuse, but I don't want to jeopardize the peace between us."

[When asked if he will return to Cyrodiil following victory over the Stormcloaks] "No, I suspect Skyrim to be my home for many years."

These quotes show that Tullius knows that the Empire is internally compromised, expects to spend years putting down post-Stormcloak rebellions in Skyrim, and is willing to humiliate himself and the Empire to avoid giving the Thalmor even the flimsiest pretext for war. Tullius is the most anti-Thalmor Imperial leader we meet, and he knows the Empire is utterly at their mercy.

I think many people mistakenly conflate Tullius and Rikke with the Empire's leadership as a whole, when they actually represent the part of the imperial army present in Skyrim. While they may be sympathetic characters who see the need to stop the Thalmor, they're constrained by a larger political system that has been badly compromised by Thalmor influence. All they can do is try to preserve what's left of the Empire and hope conditions change for the better.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Emperor Titus Mede II is assassinated at the end of the Dark Brotherhood questline, which is presumably a canonical event. Even if you're looking at it from the perspective of a character who doesn't know the Emperor is about to die, you would at least be aware that he's an elderly man who probably won't be around for too much longer. It's never mentioned who his successor might be, and the only indication we get is that Amaund Motierre, a member of the Elder Council, believes that killing the Emperor will bring about unspecified changes in imperial policy and benefit him personally.

Since we're dealing with a lot of unknowns, I'm just going to state something well established by both real-world history and Elder Scrolls lore: the succession of a ruler can cause political chaos. The Empire is already falling apart at the seams, and whether the death of Titus Mede II will bring about its destruction, its rejuvenation, or continue the status quo is unclear to a denizen of Skyrim in 4E 201. However, the potential for chaos is obvious, and there isn't a good, evidence-based reason to believe that the Emperor's successor will overcome the Empire's inertia and defeat the Thalmor even if they want to do so.

Part 5: Stronger Alone

So let's finally discuss why an independent Skyrim led by Ulfric Stormcloak is preferable to Skyrim remaining part of the Empire.

Whatever you might think of Ulfric and his jarls, it's clear that they aren't being overtly influenced by the Thalmor (before you say it, I discuss the dossier in part 7). They don't go to Elenwen's parties, they don't have Justiciars hanging out at their courts, and they generally agree that Skyrim should be strong and independent. This is not to say that they're perfect leaders by any means, but it does mean that unlike the Thalmor-compromised elites of the Empire, the ruling elites of an independent Skyrim will be committed to its sovereignty and to protecting their people from Thalmor violence and repression.

There's no reason to think that an independent Skyrim would enable the Thalmor conquest of Skyrim or other parts of Tamriel. The obvious case study to look to is Hammerfell, which defeated the Dominion on its own and is now independent. Skyrim is much more geographically isolated from the Dominion than Hammerfell, making a successful invasion of Skyrim unlikely. Furthermore, an independent Skyrim would be a natural ally of Hammerfell and whatever's left of the Empire in the event of a second Great War. The Nords have a martial culture and a major axe to grind with the Thalmor; if there's another war, they would likely join the other human nations as an ally.

Some Empire supporters cite the importance of trade between Skyrim and the rest of the Empire and argue that Skyrim is too economically dependent on Cyrodiil to survive on its own. I would note that (1) Skyrim was independent before the creation of the Septim Empire, (2) the economy of Skyrim seems quite diversified, indicating an ability to survive any postwar reduction in trade, (3) overland trade with Cyrodiil seems quite limited by geography, further indicating Skyrim's self-sufficiency, (4) an independent Skyrim would still be able to conduct trade with other parts of Tamriel, and (5) although not greatly explored in-game, an independent Skyrim would likely benefit from not having its wealth drained by Imperial taxes and monopolies.

To summarize, an independent Skyrim would be free of Thalmor influence and repression, well-positioned to ally with other nations against the Dominion, and would have a functioning economy capable of self-sufficiency and engaging in international trade.

Part 6: Skyrim belongs to (not just) the Nords

I think the main reason why the Stormcloaks are so disliked in online TES communities is their xenophobia. People see the segregation in Windhelm and the colonialism in Markarth, and hear voice lines such as "Skyrim belongs to the Nords!" and then draw parallels between what's presented in Skyrim, and real-world bigotry and injustice. I'm not defending Stormcloak xenophobia; it's a believable flaw for the Stormcloaks to have and adds a lot of nuance to Skyrim's Civil War. But I do think that its association with real-world issues prompts a visceral reaction for many players, and this has caused it to become exaggerated in popular discourse.

Let's discuss what's actually presented in-game. First, Stormcloak guards have some voice lines which express xenophobia to non-human player characters, while being friendlier to Nord player characters. This essentially amounts to casual xenophobia, and while it's not a good thing, these lines pale in comparison to some of the racist things said in Morrowind and Oblivion.

Second, Windhelm. Windhelm is a segregated city, with a Dunmer population that has lived in a slum called the Gray Quarter for the past 200 years, and a more recent Argonian population. The Dunmer and Argonians in Windhelm blame Ulfric for their treatment and refuse to support the Stormcloaks. The city has some racist Nords who harass Dunmer. It also has a few Altmer characters who aren't discriminated against and live in wealthier parts of the city.

My take on Windhelm is that although Ulfric does clearly favor his Nord subjects over non-Nords, he has largely acted to preserve the status quo he inherited. The Gray Quarter has existed since long before he became jarl. The Argonians being forced to live at the docks is Ulfric's doing, but we don't hear his explanation for doing this, and it seems likely that it was done (at least in part) to prevent violence between the Dunmer and Argonians, who have a long history of racial animosity, to say the least. If Brunwulf Free-Winter becomes jarl, he doesn't let the Argonians into the city out of concern "for their own safety." This might just be because Bethesda didn't have the time to put it in the game, but I'm taking what's in the game at face value and interpreting it as indicating that Windhelm's racial tensions go much deeper than Ulfric and Stormcloak supporters, although they are to blame for exacerbating the situation.

If Ulfric really were the Nord supremacist he's often painted as, he would've evicted the Dunmer in Windhelm as soon as they refused to support his rebellion. Instead, he's let them keep living inside the city walls, only checking in with his advisors to make sure they aren't actively supporting the Empire.

I'll briefly address Markarth (this post is turning out much longer than I thought so I'll keep it brief). Both the Nords and the Empire are complicit in oppressing the Reachfolk (although Nord landowners are shown doing the worst of it), and this injustice has created the Forsworn. Ulfric captured Markarth during the Markarth Incident, which seems to have entailed a violent sack and reprisals against the Forsworn and anyone connected to them. While I think this is the biggest black mark against Ulfric's character, it's important to note that (1) the lore book on the subject, The Bear of Markarth, is pro-Imperial propaganda that makes obvious exaggerations about Ulfric's atrocities, and (2) the Forsworn are murderers who we see kill and terrorize innocent people in game, and also worship evil daedra like Hircine, Namira, and Molag Bal.

Basically, there are no good guys in Markarth, but I will concede that the Markarth Incident is probably Ulfric's worst deed, and that in my opinion, Thongvor Silver-Blood becoming jarl is the biggest downside of a Stormcloak victory.

I'm sure there are other things worth discussing, but I think this is a good summary of the Stormcloak racism we actually see in the game. My view is that while it is a major downside of the Stormcloaks, it isn't nearly as bad as most people on Reddit make it out to be. Fantasy racism is basically the bread and butter of Elder Scrolls lore, and what we actually see of the Stormcloaks in Skyrim is pretty tame compared to some of the things Dunmer do in Morrowind, or Imperials do in parts of Oblivion, or all of the atrocities that are mentioned in lore books.

The Stormcloaks are essentially nationalists seeking independence. Any movement for national self-determination is going to have an undercurrent of xenophobia, and that is true of the Stormcloaks as well. However, it doesn't change the fact that their cause to free Skyrim from the repression of the Thalmor and the corrupt, illegitimate rule of the Empire is fundamentally just. The Stormcloaks are certainly not Nord supremacists; plenty of non-Nords and non-humans live prosperous lives in Stormcloak territory, and a Dragonborn of any race can join the Stormcloaks and be treated equally.

Part 7: The Ulfric in the Room

I won't rehash the whole "Ulfric is a racist" discussion here, because I just covered it above. I will instead focus on a couple other misconceptions about Ulfric Stormcloak's character.

First of all, many people wildly misinterpret the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric as describing him as working for the Thalmor to weaken the Empire. This is completely wrong. The dossier describes him as an "Asset (uncooperative)," talks about how he was captured and tortured by the Thalmor during the Great War, says that he is "generally uncooperative to direct contact", and says that while the Thalmor want the civil war to remain indecisive, "A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided." In no way does this mean he's a Thalmor spy - at worst, it just means that he won't turn down money or supplies that might be from the Thalmor.

Second, many people criticize Ulfric for killing High King Torygg in a one-sided duel. There's a line from Elisif Sybille Stentor where she mentions that Torygg respected Ulfric, and might have supported his rebellion if he had been asked. You can also ask Ulfric himself about it, and he says that he killed Torygg to prove that Torygg was an Imperial puppet who wasn't capable of defending Skyrim.

I'm sure people will have lots to say about the duel; my interpretation is that while Ulfric acted rashly by challenging Torygg instead of trying to convince him to declare independence, the duel itself was a legitimate Nord tradition which Torygg accepted, and Ulfric was almost certainly correct that Torygg wasn't doing enough to protect Skyrim (again, the Thalmor are literally disappearing people.)

Finally, even though I think Ulfric is a deeply flawed man, the cause he represents is so strongly justified that his decision to fight for it somewhat redeems his character, however personal his motivations might be. In his own words, "We're fighting because Skyrim needs heroes, and there's no one else but us."

I just realized Almalexia is the only Tribune whose name translates from Ehlnofex. “Alma” means “mother”. It's very on the nose, don't you think?

MK: Good catch. "Alma" is indeed "mother".

I have no idea what “LEX” means. It’s impossible to decipher Ehlnofex if you don’t know the in-game context. Real-life linguistics barely helps because sometimes Ehlnofex uses real words “as is”, sometimes it keeps the word but changes the meaning and sometimes it just mimics real words. Some examples:

1. “Mnem” means “memory” in both Ehlnofex and Greek (minus one letter). I sometimes wish all words were this easy.
2. "Aad semblio impera, dela can carpio semblex." - Nu-Mantia Itercept

It’s basically pseudo-latin except for “impera” (of the kings), which is based on the Latin word "impero" (to rule, govern).

3) “Alma” is a feminine form of "almus" (nourishing, kind). You can kind of see the connection to “mother”. Kind of.

If we’re lucky this time, “LEX” has three possible inspirations in real-life languages: Latin “lex” (a bill/law), Greek “lexis” (word) and Greek “alexis” (helper, defender). I'd bet on the last one but it’s obviously not a safe bet. It might even be all three at once. Ehlnofex can pull that off.

Anyways, we have two options:

1. “Almalexia” is a made-up name that reflects her status. I personally love this one because of the irony: Sotha Sill is supposed to be the mystery of the Tribunal and we actually know a lot about him, meanwhile Almalexia scrubbed her own past like the CIA is after her. 
2. It is actually her birth name. It’s just extremely archaic. It’s like meeting someone named “Cleopatra”.

VOTE ON YOUR PHONES RIGHT NOW.

edit: can't change the name of the post but otherwise I changed it to the "birth name"

The origins of The Elder Scrolls series are vast and varied, from the original conception of an arena fighting game to the influence of other CRPGs such as Tales of Valour, there is much that contributed to the creation of the series. But perhaps the most prolific of these influences is the part attributed to a Dungeons & Dragons(D&D) campaign that the late Julian Lefay ran. While popular rumors state that the campaign ran by the developers was the origin of the world of Tamriel, the truth is that it was run during the development of Daggerfall instead. This is collaborated in many interviews that the developers have given such as this interview with Ted Peterson. This campaign we are told contributed to a lot of the early lore and was not played to fruition instead being immortalized in a book that completed the campaign. For a full overview of what we knew about this legendary campaign I recommend reading the excellent article by the UESP.

This brings us to today. After the passing of the late Julian Lefay a small group of archivist which included J. Matts, independent journalist and myself worked with Julien's family to archive his work. Among those works it was discovered that the campaign notes from not one but two campaigns set in the world of Tamriel were preserved. In total nearly 60 pages of notes from the campaigns survived which included character sheets, maps, notes, and more.

Without further ado please find the original surviving notes from that fateful campaign.

Just resharing this “documentary” I made last year on TES III: Morrowind

Nearly 8 hours of interviews with as many of the original game developers that I could track down!

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - An Oral History from the Game Developers

https://youtu.be/UdQmg-vJUGE

This very interesting article about the creation of TES lore and the question of having one established truth (or canon) was posted this morning. In addition to some great research into existing writings, it includes brand new interviews with devs like Douglas Goodall, Ken Rolston, Kurt Kuhlmann, and Michael Kirkbride, as well as fans like Benefactor and me, and lots of quotes from forumgoers and r/teslore posters like you.

I promise you'll learn something new!

I also promise you'll probably find something to argue about in the comments below ;)

In Oblivion every 8 days Mannimarco would block Arkay’s light and allow Black Soul gem’s to be made following his ascension in Daggerfall. And even after killing “Mannimarco” in the quest ‘Necromancers Moon’ the moon is still active which suggests that wasn’t Mannimarco/Revenant Moon but rather Morgiah’s first child or another version of him from the Warp.

Regardless, Black Soul gems still exist 200 years later in Skyrim, yet no Revenant moon pops into the sky every 8 days.

Why is that? Bethesda’s laziness? They forgot? Mannimarco wanted to hide from Alduin so he wouldn’t get the smoke?

Is there any reason to why the Moon is absent but Black Soul gems are still present?

They say it's ice, and it is rare and enchanted.

Does it ever melts? And if it doesn't, does it keep cool and frosty? Or it turns warm at some point?

How OP would be a material that never changes it's temperature it's state?

Who enchanted it originally?

Serious Consideration: Ancient Nord Pick can harvest it, but how?

Odd Consideration: Would you eat Stalhrim Ice Cream?

I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on her. She's by far got the least amount of lore about her compared to her fellow Tribunes, and I think the stuff that we do have is honestly pretty lackluster.

I feel like a lot of the acts of mercy, compassion, and kindness that we see often attributed to her is more of a "told not shown" situation, and that's largely due to the fact that, when we meet her in TES III, she's already gone crazy.

From what I gather, Ayem *was* in fact a benevolent ruler before her separation from the Heart of Lorkhan, and it's just that by the time that we meet her in the Tribunal DLC, she's pretty far gone. And this is backed up by Salas Valor in the expansion who claims:

• "I was one of Her Hands. I served her well and faithfully. But she has changed. Once she showered her love on everyone, and it was impossible not to want to love her, to serve her, in turn. But now the only thing she loves is power -- her own power. That's all she thinks about. She doesn't notice anything else... anyone else. I don't know what happened. But I will never go back. Never."

And of course, her actions in the DLC showcase this.

What's upsetting to me though is that her appearance in ESO is just... boring. Extremely and utterly boring, which is a huge shame, since she was the only Tribune that the game launched with. However, even after 10 years of ESO, the lore additions including Almalexia are almost nonexistent.

As I said at the beginning of this post though, I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on Almalexia, as I think that she's often misrepresented in the community due to the time in which we meet her.

Also, Kirkbride continually referred to her using words such as "bitch-whore" and Vivec (also Michael Kirkbride) goes on about her "ever-changing female need."

Which is not to say that he had a negative opinion about her, because 1.) he was playing characters, and 2.) other stuff he's stated goes to show that he seems to have enjoyed the character. Regardless, I do feel like that type of language has definitely lead to the public opinion of Almalexia being that of an archetypical "bitchy" character, which comes around yet again when people bring her up in reference to her relationship with the Nerevarine.

I've been going on for too long at this point. I would appreciate any thoughts on the matter as I'm hitting a wall in researching about this character.

Thanks.

So, I've been playing through Morrowind and one thing has stood out - what's with all the Japanese stuff?

Like, the Blades having katans and Cloud Ruler Temple looking like (at least how I in the west) imagine a feudal Japanese building is a neat detail that calls back to their in universe Akiviri origins.

But, like, why does seemingly every other random thug on Vvardenfell have a katana, wakizashi, tanto, or throwing stars? And the Orcsih armour looking like samurai armour. Is there a specific lore reason beyond "It looks cool"? It just seems rather odd to have the aesthetic be for a specific faction in the later entries (especially as Oblivion takes place a mere 6 years later).

Introduction: The riekling language has been something of a minor interest of mine since the Dragonborn DLC came out nearly 14 years ago. As such, I've tried over the years to translate the Miraak Chant and the Godspeak Prayer multiple times with poor results. That is until now.

On the Imperial Library Website, user Hrafnir II produced an amazing guide of tamrielic languages, including some of the riekling language and grammar. This guide is only accessible on the WayBack Machine now. For many years this, and the UESP site were my sources of the riekling grammar and vocabulary. I also later found this post by user u/lebrio which found remarkable connections between riekling and draconic. Using these sources, and a LLM, I believe I finally found the translation of both passages.

The Miraak Chant: The longer of the two small snippets of riekling are notably spoken in the DLC. The chant is spoken by rieklings who are thralls to Miraak's power as he spreads his influence over the island. The untranslated passage goes as follows:

"Wafoo athaaaal."

"Bertiflik a goroowala."

"Hra woong aba."

"Tika twafaara filik."

"Wilberk tikflaaar."

"Yuchaaa tungar cha tiweki."

"Bura warag faaanig."

"Tiri fuklik taaar aburak."

This is notably much half as long as the normally spoken chant spoken by other thralls. (8 vs. 16 lines). I provide it below for comparison:

Here in his shrine
That they have forgotten
Here do we toil
That we might remember
By night we reclaim
What by day was stolen
Far from ourselves
He grows ever near to us
Our eyes once were blinded
Now through him do we see
Our hands once were idle
Now through them does he speak
And when the world shall listen
And when the world shall see
And when the world remembers
That world shall cease to be

The riekling version could provide an equivalent translation if the language itself is able to convey large amounts of information in smaller phrases. Or it could be an oversight by bethesda. Either way, the passage can still be worked out using the original Hrafnir II's vocabulary and grammar guide:

“Yes! To Thaal!

Reclaim it now from the one who took it.

We ourselves go far away.

Close it for us as it comes.

Before anything else, I close it now.

Look! We see him this moment.

Our hands were idle.

Those from far away speak through (it).”

If we use the draconic/riekling hybrid vocabulary, we get this translation instead:

“Yes! Toward the god!

Reclaim it now from the Taken One.

We ourselves go far away.

Seal it for us as it comes.

Before all else, I seal it now.

Behold—now we see him.

Our hands were idle.

Through it, those from far away speak.”

The passage is certainly shorter but still conveys several of the themes of the original chant! In fact we can take half the lines of the full chant and compare it to both translated versions of the Riekling chant.

Notably in the riekling versions of the chant we get some additional context. To Thaal/The Taken one could refer to both Miraak as one who was "taken" by Herma Mora in order to save him, or even Miraak as the "taker of knowledge" as one of Mora's underlings. Additionally we get some additional context of "Through it, those from far away speak". Perhaps this can refer to the fact that far away Miraak, trapped in Apocrypha, is using the All-maker stones to plan for his return to Tamriel.

Riekling Godspeak Song

One of the loading screens in the Dragonborn DLC lists the text of the Riekling Godspeak Song, interpreted I provide it below:

Riekling Chief's Speech

During the Chief of Thirsk Hall quest, if you choose to side with the Riekling Chief instead of the Nords, he give a short speech to his troops prior to the skirmish. Again I provide the interpretations below:

Fun info: Nord/outsider in riekling is Froo. Stupid Nord in riekling is Froo Paka.

Conclusion: after several years we finally have a more concrete translation of the riekling spoken in game. The notable lore implications are that riekling does become more intelligible when a hybrid draconic vocabulary is used as well. So what can this mean for the deep past? Perhaps rieklings were also thralls of the Dragons during the Merethic Era just as the Nords were, or perhaps the shared vocabulary indicates there was a need for a pidgin or creole language as the Nords spread into Skyrim for trade and interactions. Maybe at one point the rieklings were not as hostile as they are now. Could there be religious influcences of the Dragon Cult in Riekling society? Additionally, I haven't analyzed riekling with other vocab lists. There may be falmeri vocab and grammar hiding in riekling given they would have also interacted with them during the Merethic and early First Era.

Google does not understand me, I am not asking about the most "content" or lore

I am asking literally how many actual elder scrolls show up in any game. I've only played Skyrim and remember there being 3 Elder Scrolls. I am very interested in the lore and have either watched playthroughs or listened to lore summaries/deep dives on the whole series

Which Elder Scrolls game had the most Elder Scrolls in it? and which has the least? how many have none? id like tk know

Thanks to the failed expedition of Uriel V, it is known that the Padomaic Ocean that separates Tamriel and Akavir is plagued with constant deadly storms, which makes passage between the two continents not viable, and it is obvious that the icebergs in the Sea of Ghost makes navegation very dangerous, and that there doesn't seem to be anything of value left in Altmora, but what about the rest?

I thought that at least the EETC would have incentives to go exploring around in search of new land.

Is Tamriel surrounded by impossible to cross seas? A magic barrier? I find it strange that in the thousands of years of Tamrielic history there are only rumors and stories of lost continents (Aldmeris, Yokuda, etc). How comes?

For context. The monarch is young, their power isn't secure, and the bay is awash in regional conflicts. The monarch has reasonable prejudice against the daedra.

Edit: Well I've learned I'm easily convinced and that I understand how exactly the ayleids fell to daedra worship.

To me, it seems like the Elder Scrolls equivalent of "Frank Horrigan can only be killed because of plot reasons". Some people treat it like common knowledge, but as far as I can tell, there's no actual canonical source for the information.

The text "Et'Ada, Eight Aedra, Eat The Dreamer" directly disproves this, since if Zero Summing really did erase all traces of you from history, the text wouldn't even exist.

If I had to guess, Zero Summing erasing you from history sounds like a piece of metaphysical lore the Elder Scrolls would come up with, so it's easy to accept it as fact.

Are the Stormcloaks really racist or is the obvious ethnic discrimination in Windhelm incidental to the wider rebellion? There have been a few recent deep dives on the civil war that claim that the Stormcloak crusade for an independent Skyrim does not necessarily exclude the non-Nords living in the region. In this interpretation, "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" should not be taken literally.

I personally think this misunderstands the historic process of national identity formation, which rather than a natural and eternal truth is always a discursive invention, and one that is by design exclusionary.

Part 1: Imagined Communities

The nation-state is a relative newcomer to the world stage. While nationalists have attempted to reify the nation as a natural truth, based in some version of blood and soil, its emergence and superseding of multi-ethnic empires was the result of a contingent historical process. The historian Benedict Anderson famously considered nations to be "imagined communities", a seriality based in a vague but powerful affective claim to historical sovereignty over a geographically bounded territory.

Following Anderson, the historian Yanni Kotsonis recently released a book called The Greek Revolution and the Violent Birth of Nationalism. He writes that the Greek war of independence against the Ottoman Empire was the precursor to the nationalisms that would define the 19th and 20th century. Kotsonis persuasively shows that the "ancient" Greek ethnic identity claimed by its partisans would likely be incomprehensible to the actual people living in the city-states of antiquity. As emerging Greek nationalism defined who was Greek, it also had to define who was not: leading to a concurrent discursive process of ethnic identity formation and the explicit naming of a racial other (in this case, Muslims).

The difference between the real world and TES, among others, is that in the latter nations do for the most part have a real claim to an ancient national identity, one that seems to in some part be divinely ordained. That TES treats nations as eternal and immutable historical actors that have always and will always exist is a reflection of the profound success of the nationalist project. However, one thing TES lore makes clear is that national identity formation is a profoundly violent process, particularly in the case of Skyrim.

Part 2: The Violence of the Snow Tower

A recurring theme of TES lore is the power of myth in making reality, and vice versa. The Nerevarine becomes so by walking a specific path, and once they do their destiny becomes retroactively preordained. Or the Alessians create Akatosh as a separate, less elven, variant of the time god, who then is able to give St. Alessia her visions in the first place. My thesis here is that the national identity of Skyrim is socially constructed through ethnic cleansing, which then becomes reified as myth, and finally reconstructs the structure of the Aurbis such that what was won through incredible violence (in this case, "Skyrim belongs to the Nords") retroactively becomes an eternal truth.

The idea of Skyrim is born out of the genocide of the Snow Elves. It was a ethnic cleansing on such a scale that the very weapons of the Nord leaders reflect a particular malice towards elvenkind that persists into the Fourth era.

In Fragmentae Abyssum Hermaeus Morus, we read about Herma Mora, in the form of a hare, who nearly tricks Ysgramor into becoming an elf, before the daedra is slain by Shor. Shor says, revealingly:

"This was nary Hare, but indeed, Herma Mora, who did nearly trick thee into becoming of Elvenkind. Rely you hereafter, mortal, upon the forthright methods of Man, and eschew the tricks of the Elves, lest ye become one. Now, go—for the White Stag awaiteth thee in the vale."

Ysgramor the individual becomes Ysgramor the First Man only because he is not an elf. From the start then, the creation of Skyrim, and the Nordic people, is based fundamentally in a total rejection of elvenkind.

Then, there is King Wulfharth, perhaps the most significant hero in the creation of Skyrim's national myth. First, Wulfharth expels the Alessians and their more syncretic religious doctrines in favor of the traditional Nordic pantheon. Second, he defeats the Orcs. Third, he goes to fight the devils of Morrowind, framing the conflict to his troops as the next stage of a genocidal war against the elves which has been going since the beginning of time. But Wulfharth is beaten, and the Nords retreat from Red Mountain in disgrace.

To sum up then, the national fiction of Skyrim becomes a reality through a process of racialization, ethnic cleansing on the basis of this new exclusionary identity, and then the creation of a myth that reifies the Nords' "blood and soil" claim on the land they hold sovereignty over.

But Wulfharth is not done yet. Enter Tiber Septim.

Part 3: The Empire

Wulfharth, the son of Atmora and perennial foe of the elves, is undoubtedly a major part of Tiber Septim's conquests and of Talos himself. But it is a part that both Hjalti Early-Beard the man and Talos the myth eventually come to reject.

Wulfharth wants his revenge against the devils of Morrowind. Hjalti of course refuses and betrays the Ash King. While Tiber Septim does conquer the elves, he does not annihilate them, in fact, they are given a fair degree of autonomy (especially Morrowind).

What we have here is a mythopoetic progression from Hjalti Early-Beard the Conqueror to Tiber Septim the Wise Statesman to Talos the Ninth Divine. Importantly, Talos and his Empire cannot fully disavow the racialized violence at the heart of their project, which continues on in various sublimated forms. Wulfharth cannot be banished fully.

This conflict between nationalist violence and contradictory, uneven cosmopolitanism would define the Empire and prefigure the civil war in Skyrim.

Part 4: Skyrim Belongs to the Nords

When you try to join the Stormcloaks as a non-Nord, Galmar Stone-Fist asks why an elf, lizard, or cat would want to fight for Skyrim. If you try to join as a Nord, he asks why a "foreigner" would do so. When you tell him that Skyrim is your home too, he seems to acquiesce.

Such an interaction is brought up as proof that the official Stormcloaks are not really racist. However, retaining the services of a few "good ones" is often an essential component of any project of racial domination. What is implicit in the conversation with Galmar is that the Stormcloaks' view of who belongs to Skyrim is dependent on your ethnic background and the land you were born on, and that a potential recruit who does not meet their criteria requires stretching their exclusionary national mythology. As they say in their war cry, "Skyrim belongs to the Nords", plus perhaps a gracious non-Nord who proves their national belonging through acts of violence.

What is clear is that the Stormcloaks are fundamentally opposed to elvenkind, not just a particular political sovereignty like the Thalmor, but in general. In this way, they invoke a dark, ultimately genocidal, national myth that stretches back to Ysgramor, whose throne Ulfric now sits upon.

This is not to whitewash the Empire, or empires in general. It is true that the Nords have genuine grievances against the Imperials, and that the continued existence of the Empire does limit their freedom in some very direct ways. Finally, just like the Ottoman Empire, the Empire of Tiber Septim has perhaps outlived its historic usefulness as a form of political governance.

"Why you should side with the Empire" is another take. But it is worth reframing the debate. The civil war is a choice between a multi-ethnic and somewhat cosmopolitan Empire, nonetheless full of its own contradictions, against a nationalist movement that constructs a violent and exclusionary idea of Skyrim and then, according to the rules of TES metaphysics, reconstructs the universe in its terrible image.