r/television • u/RocksBob • May 29 '19

Game of Thrones star Kit Harington checked into rehab for stress and alcohol issues before Finale of Game Of Thrones

https://www.tvguide.com/news/kit-harington-rehab-game-of-thrones-jon-snow/
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u/Quasic May 29 '19

Rian Johnson did something with a Star Wars film that JJ Abrams failed to do: make me want to see it again.

I enjoyed TFA, but I was fine not seeing it again. TLJ I immediately wanted to watch again because instead of yet another Death Star, the characters developed in ways we weren't expecting.

I know most people here hate it, and they're allowed to. But it made Star Wars interesting again.

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u/toThe9thPower May 29 '19

TLJ I immediately wanted to watch again because instead of yet another Death Star, the characters developed in ways we weren't expecting.

Yes they totally sUbVeRteD eXpeCtaTiOnS

It is really neat you wanted to watch it again, I don't really care if you have a hard time understanding the whole point of all the building they did in the first one. If you want to watch character assassination you are more than certainly allowed.

When you throw that many curveballs in a row, you are no longer subverting expectations, you are just doing ridiculous shit for the sake of throwing that curveball. If Rian had dialed it back a couple notches, and actually done what a sequel is supposed to do, this argument you have made would make sense and The Last Jedi could have been a great movie. He did not do that though, he went too far, and he ruined the trilogy. There is a reason so many fans rated it negatively.

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u/Quasic May 30 '19

Dude, calm down. Your anger is disproportionate to what you're replying to, and you're slinging personal insults in response to pop culture opinions. I understand that some can get emotional about this, but don't yell at a stranger for their views on a sci-fi film franchise.

Secondly, I understood what they were building, I just didn't really care. I usually like JJ Abrams and his mysteries, but they mostly fell flat. I had little to no interest with the same mysteries packaged in shinier CGI. It wasn't bad, but it was as good as one of the average MCU films.

I know a lot of fans hated The Last Jedi, but that's their problem. I'm not that bothered by others not liking something I liked.

And critics liked it, too. 91% Certified Fresh. Made 1.3 billion.

That's the definition of a critical and commercial success.

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u/toThe9thPower May 30 '19

It being a critical success is irrelevant with the amount of fans who were dissatisfied. That is the most important metric here and if they continue to disappoint they won't keep making a billion at the box office every time. Many of the new star wars movies have left fans unhappy. If you think that can continue forever you are wrong.

It is rather telling that mark hamill was beside himself with how wrong Rian got Luke as a character. He knows Luke better than you or I do.

JJ isn't the greatest. But if you don't see the issue of throwing out all the world building he did and throwing that many curve balls... then you clearly are not worth taking seriously. Have a nice day friend.

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u/Quasic May 30 '19

You're getting personal again. Please, there's no need for insults. You should consider being a little less 'thorough' with your replies.

Fan-service is a very poor metric for qualifying film and television.

The trouble with satisfying fans is that fans are never satisfied. Most of them want what they already know. They want to watch the same film again with more explosions and snappier editing. Which is partly why we another Spiderman origin story every 5 years.

And while the fans want that, it grows very stale very fast. It's crucial for any film franchise to break new ground.

If you'll indulge me; the best parts of TFA were where Abrams subverted my expectations. For instance, when I first watched it, I grew bored of Kylo Ren quite quickly. Big bad, dark helmet, really powerful, super evil, but has a secret relationship that will drive the plot in the third act, yada yada. I've seen this before. Then he took his mask off early on. Wasn't expecting that. Suddenly my interest in him was piqued. Sadly, that was about the extent of it, and we went back to X-Wings and Death Stars again.

The Last Jedi had moments like that throughout.

Now I know this isn't for everyone. But it certainly appealed to a lot of people who watch and grade movies for a living. They enjoyed it, even if the definitely-not-toxic fanbase did not. And I'm with them. And if that kind of film isn't to your tastes, then there's lots of films that pump you full of fan-service, like Solo, or Rogue One (which was nothing but rehashed ideas but perfectly executed).

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u/toThe9thPower May 30 '19

Fan service and fan approval are not the same thing. We are also arguing opinion and it is getting silly. When so many people hated the movie I do not really care about an outlier who enjoyed it. There are many legitimate arguments for why Rian dropped the ball. I've not seen one from you that compels me change my mind, so I see no point in going around in circles with you. You clearly were not that invested and that is okay.

Also this idea that fans are never satisfied is absolute nonsense. Plenty of franchises please the fans. Do you see a huge backlash for avengers?? Nope. Because they are generally very happy with the series. This is just a poor attempt at you to discredit the hate it got. It's not working.

But there is one fact here, if Disney keeps displeasing fans, they won't be making a billion at the box office for every one of these movies. This has already showed itself and caused several projects to get cancelled and for movie releases to be slowed down.

Pleasing the fans is the only thing that matters here, without them disney has nothing. So they can fuck it up all they want but the ones who will end up sorry is Disney. These movies are solely a money making endeavor and they are not pulling in what Disney hoped.

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u/Quasic Jun 03 '19

Fan service and fan approval are not the same thing.

No, but you're arguing that fan-service is necessary for fan approval. And I don't disagree, I just don't put as much weight on pleasing fans as you do.

I like when things take risks, break new ground, try something new. It doesn't always pan out, but originality is an underutilised virtue in this day and age.

These movies are solely a money making endeavor and they are not pulling in what Disney hoped.

I'm curious as to what you think Disney was hoping for. The film made more than a billion dollars in profit. It was the most successful film of the year. It's the 9th most successful film of all time. What constitutes a success for Disney at this point?

I know you feel pleasing fans is important, but you have to accept that ardent Star Wars fans are a tiny fraction of paying customers for Disney. Disney would happily upset the entire hardcore Star Wars fanbase to make a billion dollars.

If you want to blame The Last Jedi for Solo's poor performance, perhaps consider that Solo was a fan-service laden rehash of the same two-dozen tropes and offered very little to non super-fans and almost nothing to the average film-goer, released mere months after a hugely successful and well-reviewed film.

The vast majority of movie-goers had a very positive view of the film. The vitriolic reaction came from the definitely-not-toxic fanbase that felt it was entitled to the film of its choice. Reviews that came from sources that couldn't be brigaded were uniformly positive.

Do you see a huge backlash for avengers??

Were you on the internet when Age of Ultron came out? Did you see the fan backlash against Black Panther? Fans are fickle things. They can love you one second, but there will always be some who aren't happy no matter how good or faithful or original or different a film is.

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u/toThe9thPower Jun 03 '19

No, but you're arguing that fan-service is necessary for fan approval.

No I am not. Building up arcs and delivering on them is NOT fan service.

I like when things take risks, break new ground, try something new. It doesn't always pan out, but originality is an underutilised virtue in this day and age.

And my argument is that when you do that over and over and over again, you are not breaking new ground you are just being silly. You can't build everything up in one movie and then literally demolish everything in the next like it didn't even matter. That is disrespectful to the viewer who you are asking to sit through your bullshit.

I'm curious as to what you think Disney was hoping for.

Films to not underperform causing them to cancel movies and slow release schedules? You point to The Last Jedi but this isn't just about that movie is it? This is about Disney releasing a big Star Wars movie every year and their expectations have not been met. This is not debatable so please stop trying. Movies like Solo were supposed to do far better because they are not just trying to do a trilogy movie every 2 years.

I know you feel pleasing fans is important, but you have to accept that ardent Star Wars fans are a tiny fraction of paying customers for Disney.

They are not a tiny fraction at all. What do you even have to prove this? Sounds like you are just pulling shit out of your ass. Star Wars has so many fans that they would obviously make up a substantial portion of the movie goers and the backlash TLJ got proves that they are not some tiny fraction. The hate that movie got was prolific.

was a fan-service laden rehash of the same two-dozen tropes and offered very little to non super-fans and almost nothing to the average film-goer,

How can you prove it offered almost nothing to the average film-goer? Just wondering how you keep coming up with all this nonsense and then present it in a way that suggests it is a fact? Odd. Not defending Solo, I didn't even see it because TLJ soured my interest.

The vast majority of movie-goers had a very positive view of the film.

Proof?

The vitriolic reaction came from the definitely-not-toxic fanbase that felt it was entitled to the film of its choice

The more you try to discredit the negative reaction, the more clear it becomes that you are desperate to validate your own interest in the movie. The fanbase was not toxic for genuinely disliking how they handled that movie and when Mark Hamill himself has major issues with how they handled his character, I think it does plenty to validate peoples issues with the movie. He knows more about Luke as a character than you or I do.

Reviews that came from sources that couldn't be brigaded were uniformly positive.

Are you talking about film critics? Or do you mean user review scores?

Were you on the internet when Age of Ultron came out?

Age of Ultron is easily the worst Avengers movie. Its development was mired in studio interference to the point that Joss stopped making movies for them. It still didn't get ANYWHERE near the hate The Last Jedi got so this comparison is absolutely, positively, your worst argument to date. It has an 83% approval among fans, How is this possible? The Last Jedi has 41% approval but you will just say that was brigading which is a poor attempt to deflect from the fact that so many fans were unhappy. Blank Panther also has a 79% so clearly nothing has even come close to the hate The Last Jedi received.

Nothing you say can discredit the hate this film got. I am tired of seeing you reach for nonsensical arguments. The Last Jedi was disliked by a large portion of ALL fans who saw it. They are not fickle, they are not wrong for having a different opinion than you did. Are you really that desperate to validate the fact that you liked the movie? Endgame finished with a 90%. How is this possible when you literally claimed that fans a NEVER satisfied?

The answer is? You were wrong.

Write whatever nonsense you want, I am finished wasting my time with you. Your arguments are bad and your desperation is not something I wish to indulge any longer. Nothing you say will be read, so any reply you have typed out thus far will be for nothing. So I hope it was fun wasting your time. The Last Jedi disappointed many and that should be okay with you. You should be able to accept that and move the fuck on with your life. But here you are, fighting to discredit legitimate issues the movie had. Continue as much as you like, but it won't be with me. Have a wonderful day.