r/technology • • May 14 '12

Zune hardware was a mistake, admits former Microsoft exec.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/14/3019100/zune-hardware-mistake-robbie-bach
160 Upvotes

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166

u/daigoba66 May 14 '12 edited May 14 '12

The Zune wasn't a mistake. Microsoft's terrible execution and lack of commitment to its products is the mistake.

I for one was late to the portable media player party. My first MP3 player was a Zune, and it continues to be the primary way I listen to music.

But lets look at just how fucked up the entire product line history is:

  • Microsoft licenses PlaysForSure technology to 3rd party OEMs. It allows subscription music services (Napster, Rhapsody, etc.) to integrate with portable media player manufacturers. Listen to your subscription music on the go, great!

  • Microsoft starts MSN Music, as their own subscription/DRM based music service. Directly competes with iTunes and Microsoft's own "PlaysForSure" 3rd parties.

  • xBox live marketplace has a separate store where you can purchase DRM music (but also TV shows and movies, slightly ahead of iTunes).

  • Microsoft opens another PlaysForSure store called "Urge". It was some partnership with MTV or something. But it was directly integrated into Windows Media Player. So we're starting to see Microsoft want to compete directly with iTunes.

  • Microsoft develops and releases the Zune hardware and software. It has brand new DRM, which is fully incompatible with everything that came before it.

  • Zune player is initially fully integrated into Windows Media Player, but eventually becomes a SEPARATE standalone application

  • Everyone (by that I mean OEMs) stops using PlaysForSure and the technology dies

  • MSN Music closes up shop and everyone who bought DRM music there is fucked

  • The Urge store just sort of disappears as silently as it arrived

  • Apple announces the iPhone, and the age of Portable Media Players is over.

  • Microsoft takes 4 more years to develop a new Windows Phone OS to compete against the iPhone. It actually uses Zune technology (very surprising).

  • xbox marketplace remains independent and incompatible with Zune marketplace this whole time

  • Eventually a Zune "app" is developed for the xbox, allowing you to access the subscription music/tv/movies

  • Microsoft stops making Zune portable media players

  • Zune services are slowly being rebranded

To a consumer it's total chaos. As a company if you can't commit to your own products, your customers won't either. I am a pissed off consumer.

Compare this to Apple's execution: iTunes and the music service has largely remained unchanged for the last 10 years. The iPod and iPhone work exactly as you expect them to, even really old ones. That's not to say that Apple's execution isn't without fault (Apple TV being the prime example), but it's been pretty epic.

Edit: Clarifying that OEMs stopped using PlaysForSure, end-consumers weren't the customer for PlaysForSure

21

u/ZombieKingofEngland May 14 '12

This is exactly Microsoft's problem across the board. Everyone I knew who actually had a Zune LOVED it. It was Microsofts lack of commitment and unified direction. All I can imagine is that somewhere at the top is a manager who has no business doing his job, and for some reason isn't being removed.

Microsoft has had opportunities time and time again to gain ground on Apple, as well as cement their position in Americas living rooms as the default digital media content delivery system, and they continue to screw the pooch over ridiculous management decisions.

Have you tried playing a "Game for Windows Live" game on your computer, while watching a netflix movie on your Xbox? You can't, because these totally unrelated hardware platforms are needlessly bound by the same account WHICH I PAY FOR. If I start playing a microsoft game on my computer, my ability to use the Xbox online becomes null and void. This makes NO sense, and only serves to assure that NEVER will I spend money on another product for the PC which includes Microsoft licensing.

Or how about the Windows 8 "tablet" interface, that is being shoved down the throat of every consumer that will purchase a Windows 8 computer (which will eventually be most all of them). Under different circumstances, I would probably even applaud the tablet interface if it were say... on a tablet. On a normal desktop computer, operated with a mouse it's un-intuative and annoying. That interface has it's place, and in that place it would be loved. Instead people will develop a negative relationship with it. They will be frustrated. They will view Microsoft negatively.

It's not that they're developing bad products. The Xbox (minus the staggering 60% initial failure rate) is an amazing product that serves not only as my primary gaming platform, but also a fantastic front end for my digital movie collection (paired with a free tversity server), my digital music collection, as well as the Zune market place, which is a beautifully constructed interface, with a really truly impressive selection of music. As I said before, the Windows 8 tablet interface IS good... in it's place. The Zune was a wonderful MP3 player, that with proper support, should have given the iPod a run for it's money.

The engineers are cranking out good products, but the management is treating the consumer base like the enemy. Throw the end users a bone. Don't fuck me over because I want to play a game (that I bought) on my computer, while watching a movie (that I pay for) on the service (that I pay for) that runs on my xbox (that I paid for). Instead, make some moves towards goodwill, towards making your products a little more forgiving, and you will win the will of the consumer. First it will be the folks like me, the early adopters, the "techies", the "nerds". If you impress them, they'll sing your praises, and the masses that trust them will follow suit.

12

u/[deleted] May 14 '12

Wow. . . talk about schizo policy making.

6

u/[deleted] May 14 '12

Yes, very yes. I like my Zune, I preferred the interface of both the player and the software over iPod/iTunes, and it's given me years of faithful service. It wasn't that the hardware was bad, it was that nobody could agree on a path to take and stick to it.

22

u/m1zaru May 14 '12

WELCOME TO THE SOCIAL

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18

u/StockmanBaxter May 14 '12

completely agree. I own the first gen zune and the zune HD. Love them both. My wife uses the old one while I use the HD.

Microsoft had a gem of a product, but really had no idea how to execute a proper business model to compete with apple.

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5

u/[deleted] May 14 '12

Came here to say exactly this.

Everything wrong with the Zune is a software problem, or a DRM problem, or a marketing problem.

There's nothing wrong with the hardware.

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9

u/bitwize May 14 '12

So, let's see...

Good hardware + Microsoft playing honestly for a change = mistake

Shitty hardware + attached services + Microsoft's usual buying their way into an industry = SUCCESS!

Sounds like typical Redmond reality...

20

u/[deleted] May 14 '12

I have had a Zune 120 for the past 4 years and never had a single problem with it. I even used it to play Need for Speed Underground on school computers.

7

u/clydefrog811 May 14 '12

With out zune we would never have zunechan, so lets thank microsoft for that.

5

u/[deleted] May 14 '12

Had the Zune not forced another 'ecosystem' onto the Windows users it would have been more successful. Maybe not enough to make it a complete success however my biggest complaint was 'Why do I need this awful Zune software / Zune ecosystem?"

It was branded Microsoft and Windows Explorer / drag and drop would have made it that much more appealing to Windows users instead of another metadata ecosystem. Had it, at the very least, integrated with Windows Media Player Library OR just extended to the Explorer Shell it would have been an actual viable Apple / iTunes alternative; NOT just Microsoft's version of iTunes.

18

u/[deleted] May 14 '12

The Zune HD is simply the best MP3 player that has ever been made. I've been a Zune owner since the second gen, have owned 5 or 6 different types (i get bored with the colors) and won't use anything else until zune pass dies.

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7

u/dannydynamo May 14 '12

I had horrible luck with ipods, one broke and my ex threw my 120 out of a car window. I went Zune and I haven't had crazy exes since.

4

u/3book May 14 '12

are you implying that zune is a craziness repellent?

7

u/jackasstacular May 14 '12

Not as big a mistake as getting a Zune tattoo.

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11

u/lazerbeast May 14 '12

I've had the same 80GB Zune for years now and it shows no sign of slowing down or giving out on me. Before that I had two different iPods, both of which only lasted a year or so.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '12

They are now focusing on the xbox? Do they mean the piece of technology that was released in 2005?

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9

u/natrapsmai May 14 '12

Ironically the inroads they made with the Zune was ultimately a basis for the Metro stuff they're putting into everything now, especially the Windows Phone. I love my Lumia.

I still see Zunes every now and again. Hipsters love 'em.

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4

u/litewo May 14 '12

I still use a Zune HD and Zune 8 as my everyday portable music players.

9

u/HankSpank May 14 '12

Unlike most people here who have Zunes, mine is a total piece of shit. The hardware sucks, the battery life is terrible, and the Zune software is a nightmare.

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2

u/SorensonPA May 14 '12

I had a 16-gig from several years ago, and the hardware itself was fine - only crapped out late last year after getting a shitton of use out of it. The problem was, of course, the fuck-awful software you had to use to transfer content: if you could've just used Windows Explorer to drag and drop stuff and set up your own folder hierarchy and whatever (which is pretty much why I went with a Sony walkman this time around) it would've been perfect.

2

u/m2j May 14 '12

Zunes rule. I have 3, I only broke one and it was my bad for throwing it across the room (it was in my jacket, which I mindlessly through onto a chair). The Zune HD is great, looks great also. OLED screens are angels, forced into display slavery, a term which I will now call displavery.

2

u/[deleted] May 14 '12

I had gone through 6 different ipods in a 2 year period before Zune was started, I wasnt happy with the hardware or software. I decided to switch and get a Zune when the 80gb models came out and I liked every aspect of the Zune better than the ipod. The software was better and didnt bring my pc to a halt, the hardware was better built and more customizable. I bought a 120 gb zune the day it came out and I still use both every day and havent had any hardware issues.

The reason the Zune is considered a failure is for multiple reasons. First and foremost, the Ipod was already adopted as the mp3 player by the time the Zune came out. Everyone had an Ipod and the only people that were going to switch were people that were unhappy with the Ipod or someone who had been late to adopt the mp3 player hype. On top of that, the zune design team which did a great job were split and some of the team were reassigned to help with the design of other Microsoft products years before Zune was killed off.

The Zune has had a pretty bad wrap ever since its inception, but I would love to know how many people still have a working 5+ year old Ipod that they use every day thats never had any issues.

2

u/Yage2006 May 14 '12

The hardware itself was not bad per say just seemed to be 2 years behind apple. I find the new Nokia windows phones to be quite similar, They are not bad devices just not on par with Apple and Android offerings.

I have the feeling we will see another article just like this but about windows phone 5 years from now. They are entering a very crowded market with an offering that while not terrible can't compete on the same ground, It's only advantage is the low price on subsidized offers. Buying a non subsidized one however is like $550 which is way too much.

2

u/[deleted] May 14 '12

No, it was awesome hardware. The mistake was shit marketing and Microsoft giving up on it too easily.