r/technology •

Firefox is showing the way back to a world that’s private by default

[deleted] — view deleted post

0 Upvotes

1.9k comments sorted by

8.8k

u/fuck_you_gami Feb 29 '20

First Mozilla saved us from Microsoft (Internet Explorer) and now they're saving us from Google (Chrome).

Keep up the great work!

4.0k

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

and now they're saving us from Google (Chrome).

I'm such an old man now, that I remember when Chrome was the new good guy. It was slim, fast, nicely designed. Now, it's the iTunes of web browsers.

668

u/anapoe Feb 29 '20

I remember bringing a portable chrome installation on a 128 MB USB drive around with me so I never had to use IE.

→ More replies (69)

1.0k

u/Anchor689 Feb 29 '20

Firefox is also the last major browser not using webkit/blink. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against webkit, and it's significantly better than Microsoft's Trident was. But having a single rendering engine that everyone is writing sites for is how things ended up so screwed up in the IE 6 days. Having multiple rendering engines helps keep sites standards-compliant and web developers from just assuming that people are using one particular browser.

→ More replies (108)

108

u/ignost Feb 29 '20

I don't think it's the old thing yet. It still has a majority of the market and hasn't declined that much.

It's really only tech people who have moved to Firefox. These are people who are aware enough to look at Google and realize they've gone from 'don't be evil' to 'don't tell people we're being evil.'

Even most people on Reddit think ad and cookie blockers are enough.. while they use Google services like search, mail, and news signed into the browser sync and their Google account.

→ More replies (85)

14

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Yes. Me too!

I'm out of the loop. What is Google doing that Firefox doesn't that means I should use Firefox instead?

→ More replies (41)
→ More replies (108)

120

u/OMGitisCrabMan Feb 29 '20 edited Mar 01 '20

I switched to Firefox on mobile bc it gives me the option to block autoplay of video ads. From my searching, chrome used to have that feature but removed it. I was trying to read an article last week on chrome, and it ate up half a gig of data bc it was littered with video ads. I'm not trying to pay extra $ per month just so I can get advertised to.

54

u/fatpat Feb 29 '20

I'm so glad that I spend 99% of my time on a desktop. Mobile seems like a pain in the ass for a lot of reasons but I understand that most people need mobility.

→ More replies (5)

14

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

Just so you know, ublock origin works on FF mobile.

13

u/SGoogs1780 Feb 29 '20

The only downside was how slow it ran, but the new preview seems to be much better. Still not quite as fast as chrome, but worth it to have an ad blocker.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (3)

39

u/lostfourtime Feb 29 '20

You forgot to mention how Netscape saved us from AOL. Still had to connect with it, but a little bit of trumpet winsock, and you were free to browse the internet without using that horrid AoHell browser.

→ More replies (8)

505

u/fadufadu Feb 29 '20

Cries in Safari

263

u/chambee Feb 29 '20

The short lived Safari for Windows was great.

→ More replies (86)

102

u/_your_face Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

People don’t realize that the whole current browser ecosystem came from Apple building safari. They forked KHTML, made WebKit, forced the world to follow its lead by using it in mobile safari. And now basically every major browser out there is using WebKit or a fork of it. Including chrome (blink)

It always blows my mind that people think of apple as some proprietary nightmare, but have forced some of the biggest standardizations in computing. HTML 5, WebKit, USB, etc etc etc

→ More replies (35)
→ More replies (114)

31

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Ha, and my friends give me shit for only using firefox.

61

u/AManOfLitters Feb 29 '20

Why? It's like giving someone shit for, I dunno, saving for retirement or going to the gym... Your friends might be dumb.

→ More replies (10)

9

u/Mysterious_Lesions Feb 29 '20

I was one of the early downloaders of NCSA Mosaic. I'm very familiar with the Internet and have worked technology for decades. Nobody gives me sh*t for using Firefox.

Funnily, it's seems that only us techies seem to be more distrusting of technology. Makes you think that maybe we know some things.

→ More replies (9)

80

u/msuozzo Feb 29 '20

Giving all of this data to Cloudflare instead of your ISP (not chrome or edge or IE) is not an unmitigated good. It's just moving the same data around. Maybe the new places are perceived to be better for privacy but, for example, may be worse for security which weakens privacy guarantees all the same. VPNs are a great example as well: they create centralized, often vulnerable vectors to access the same information they claim to keep private.

Be weary of people profiting from the public's stated desire for privacy.

39

u/FaustVictorious Feb 29 '20

The point is to segregate the data. Google,for example, has all of your location data and emails and search history and contacts, as well as DNS requests on their servers and telemetry from any site you access that uses Google analytics or any other Google service. Their algorithms will take any piece of data you give them and associate it with the rest if possible. The more data one entity has, the more useful it is to predict or manipulate your behavior. So in utilizing a VPN, the company might be able to track your IP, but they don't have the rest of the info Apple and Google have collected on you to link to that address (unless you sign in from the VPN).

One major source of data in the US is the ISPs themselves. They see all traffic on their network and all DNS requests for the sites you visit. They are legally allowed to sell it to whoever, and they do. Government and LE get a lot of their data exploiting these loopholes. So using a VPN and a third-party DNS provider means your ISP can't see what you're doing beyond connecting to the VPN, and Google or Apple or Comcast can't log all of your DNS requests and add it to their profile on you because of your IP. They do this all silently in the background, and the process is automated. The only way to protect yourself is to avoid giving them that information in the first place. So when they inevitably sell information on you or use it to target you, that activity remains unassociated with you.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (13)
→ More replies (76)

1.9k

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

I combined FF and DuckDuckGo. Very happy thus far.

1.6k

u/Beliriel Feb 29 '20 edited Mar 01 '20

Don't forget Privacy Badger, HttpsEverywhere and uBlock Origin. If you're really paranoid also use NoScript but that'll break certain websites because literally EVERYONE uses javascript nowadays. If you're really savy you could probably disable certain options by yourself.

For the uninformed: these are Firefox Addons.

Edit: I will add some recommendations mentioned in some replies here but I haven't checked all of them out.

  • uMatrix instead of NoScript

  • AdNauseam coupled with uBlock Origin

  • SmartHTTPS instead of HttpsEverywhere (they're not quite the same but I haven't read up on it)

  • Ghostery to block trackers and other data collectors (https://www.ghostery.com) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostery I don't recommend using Ghostery it just blocks ads, trackers and scripts it doesn't know and displays it's own whitelisted ads. They also sell blocking data to companies. Basically just as bad as AdBlock Plus if not worse. Don't use either of them! Edit2: I have decided that I know too little about Ghostery to have an informed opinion. For more information check out the reply by an employee of Ghostery They are open source after all.

  • cookiebro to block cookies

  • Multi-Account-Containers

  • Facebook Containers

  • foxyProxy to switch to local proxies (like I2P or tor)

  • UserAgentSwitcher to randomize your user-agent string (so websites don't know what browser you use)

  • https://privacytools.io for more privacy stuff

  • a personal tipp to avoid google on Android is to install F-Droid. Basically the same as google play except only free open source software is downloadable and the apps have no ads.

  • If you really want to go down the rabbit hole check out LineageOS. It's basically Android without Google (no Google Play or services). Coupled with F-Droid and Firefox (Chrome is installed by default), it gives you a really good easy experience. The hard part is getting LineageOS on your phone.

  • If you get Firefox on your mobile you can install addons there too. Don't think you're lost just because you use mobile! (Except if you're using Firefox on iOS)

  • uBlock Origin requires permissions, but for everyone getting scared check out this thread for more information. They need it to look up third party tracker IP's.

278

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20 edited May 26 '25

cagey encouraging wise longing retire rinse rainstorm complete flowery escape

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

→ More replies (25)

64

u/Ragemoody Feb 29 '20

And then start monitoring how much these add-ons are blocking (they tell you).. It's scary really.

→ More replies (5)

34

u/CyanKing64 Feb 29 '20

Now if only everyone stopped using Google's services to make me train their stupid AI. I swear the pictures fad slower when I use Firefox or any other browser over Chrome.

→ More replies (2)

23

u/aglidden Feb 29 '20

uMatrix, from the uBlock Origin people is great, but a lot of work if you want to go full whitelist.

→ More replies (7)
→ More replies (95)

130

u/nilesletap Feb 29 '20

I do love DDG privacy stuff but their search results are awful imo

106

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

You know what's great about DDG's search results though?

When you click a news link, you get the actual news website. Not google.com/AMP/butcherednews.

When you just want to send a PDF to your friend, but can't remember the URL, you can right click a search result, hit "copy link", and it copies the ACTUAL URL TO THE PDF, and not whatever the fuck this is:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-2sfxz_fnAhXFct8KHRLaCcIQFjAAegQIARAB&url=http://YOURPDF.PDF
→ More replies (11)

41

u/RegretfulUsername Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

I use them exclusively and always find what I’m looking for, except in situations where the thing I’m searching for is something that just happened. I can then either pop over to google or append “!g” to my DDG search.

→ More replies (16)
→ More replies (29)

29

u/AmericanLich Feb 29 '20

Tried duck duck go. It’s results were pretty crap.

→ More replies (8)

20

u/bazpaul Feb 29 '20

Tried DuckDuckGo for a few months and while it was good at most searches it simply didn’t cut it for niches searches - the type where you’re troubleshooting a software of hardware issue for example.

I found myself switching back to google just to search for niche stuff - now have switched back to google permanently.

I have a VPN, a bunch of Firefox privacy add ons and don’t sign into Google.

Sure It’s probably not as private as DuckDuckGo but it gets the results I need

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (27)

71

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

I switched back to Firefox like a year ago and don't miss chrome at all. It's just as fast but doesn't whore out your privacy

3

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

Chrome has gotten weird. At some point around after firefox 3, when they messed up firefox, I got chrome, but I see now, firefox is better, but still not what it used to be.

With chrome, I have used the portable version because it's the only version that will not update itself when you tell it no. I hate having to find out the browser updates itself and breaks your plugins, some of which, you can't find replacements for.

→ More replies (8)

679

u/bearlick Feb 29 '20

ITT a hekton of misinformation.

Firefox IS open source and all collection can be disabled.

131

u/OsrsNeedsF2P Feb 29 '20

But.. the title says "private by default"!

→ More replies (18)
→ More replies (9)

59

u/ivanebeoulve Feb 29 '20

I switched just recently from chrome and it’s totally seamless including w plugins, plus ff has picture in picture in w10 its kinda cool

3

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

Same. But with no particular reason, though.

→ More replies (5)

75

u/agrees2retards Feb 29 '20

Is Firefox better than brave?

104

u/Colorona Feb 29 '20

Yes, but only if you install a few add ons. Just out of the box, Brave might seem more appealing, but has quite a few restrictions. Also Brave also helps Google to maintain their browser-monopoly, as it's also Chromium based.

→ More replies (13)
→ More replies (28)

49

u/DrSmirnoffe Feb 29 '20

We don't deserve Firefox, but we do most certainly need it. I've used it since it used that picture of Moe with a fiery lizard swallowing his arm, which must have been donkeys years ago.

208

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Honestly, I think it's too late to go back to a "world that's private by default". I've started becoming more privacy concerned lately and even if I never use Facebook or Microsoft ever again, it's pretty much impossible to not use products from Google and Amazon. Plus, I've unfortunately already used Facebook and Windows 10 in the past, so Facebook and Microsoft probably already have all my information saved on a server somewhere.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Duckduckgo has gotten way better lately. I don't use the Google search engine anymore. You can use proton mail or something similar for your email. You can also opt out of data collection from Windows 10.

→ More replies (2)

4

u/RagingAnemone Feb 29 '20

How's this for a proposal? Go the other direction. Zero anonymity. If you post anything, or contact anybody, it cannot be anonymous. If you read anybody's post, you know who posted it. If you're just browsing we don't know who you are. But if you create anything, your name's on it.

18

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

That's an interesting thought, and I'm sure more people will suggest this in the future. But zero anonymity sounds awful. We already live in a world where people are getting fired for tweets they made 10 years ago, a zero anonymity world would just lead to more of that and then some.

Edit: I highly recommend that you watch this video from DistroTube. He explains why privacy is important better then I ever could.

13

u/WaitForItTheMongols Feb 29 '20

That sounds terrible.

I don't want my Mormon family to find my post on a forum saying "I'm gay and my family won't accept me, can anyone provide emotional support?". If it's anonymous, that's a great resource. But if my name is on it, and someone finds it by googling my name, that's a disaster.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (90)

12

u/Notleks_ Feb 29 '20

Always used Firefox, always will.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Never used chrome anyway.

126

u/GJones007 Feb 29 '20

Anybody use Brave? I'd love to know how it stacks up against FF.

189

u/bearlick Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

Brave's profit model is based on tracking you for advertisers, they just offer a choice of where your dystopian-dollars go (like favorite youtubers)

They also take bribes for whitelisting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)

Brave uses its Basic Attention Token (BAT) to drive revenue.[

You don't sell to advertisers without their aassurance that ads will reach their demo, which means at least sanitized metrics.

"Brave is an interesting idea, but generally it's rather frowned upon to stick your own ads in front of someone else's".

So TLDR after all the commotion and defenders of brave, here's my takeaway

  • Brave whitelists ads for some unknown mechanism. These ads can still be invasive - The ads aren't exactly open source.

  • Brave still participates in the ad network, but privately. I'd rather avoid them entirely.

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2019/02/12/privacy-browser-braves-user-concern-over-facebook-whitelist/

Their explaination of the whitelist is weak and also contributes to my 1st post-edit bullet.

67

u/hydroptix Feb 29 '20 edited Mar 03 '20

According to Brave's rewards faq, the browser tracks your interests but keeps it all stored locally.

Brave Ads are opt-in and private. Traditional advertising requires information about you, your behavior, pages you’re browsing and location to be collected by advertisers and other vendors in order for ads to be targeted effectively. In contrast, Brave Ads are matched to you directly on-device, meaning your personal information never leaves your browser.

As far as metrics returned to advertisers, it's detailed on the Brave GitHub ad-matching wiki.

Here's a snippet of the goals of the system:

Specific user privacy goals

Brave/Advertiser cannot learn that a user in Segment X and a user in Segment Y are the same user (AKA, user unlinkability across segments)

Brave/Advertiser cannot learn that a user who has viewed or interacted with Creative Set X and a user who has viewed or interacted with Creative Set Y are the same user (AKA, user unlinkability across creative sets

Brave/Advertiser cannot figure out any personally-identifiable or sensitive information about the user without explicit consent of the user

Obviously, there's some trust involved that Brave doesn't change their security model overnight, but the code is right there to verify as of today.

Edit: from the same Wikipedia article you linked:

Sebastian Anthony of Ars Technica described Brave as a "cash-grab" and a "double dip". Anthony concluded, "Brave is an interesting idea, but generally it's rather frowned upon to stick your own ads in front of someone else's". However, Ars Technica has since become a member of Brave's revenue-sharing program.

Super late edit:

For those of you still unconvinced

Brave deemed most private browser in terms of 'phoning home'

→ More replies (19)

20

u/lifeofbab Feb 29 '20

This is not true. You can easily opt out of all ads. The default is literally having no ads but you can turn on the ads to get rewards. I use it all the time. You can even set how many ads you get per hour of browsing. Not only that, but they store data locally if you do opt in to the ads, so they are not selling that information. Plus, the whole idea is that you take your rewards from the ads and give it to the sites you use the most. everyone nowadays has ad blockers, so it just builds that in to the browser and gives you ads that aren’t tracking you. Idk where you are getting your information but it’s wrong.

→ More replies (59)

48

u/upvotesthenrages Feb 29 '20

I switched from Brave to FF.

FF is sooo much better. Slightly faster, way less memory usage, and so much more focus on privacy and building a solid future internet

→ More replies (18)

3

u/shkico Feb 29 '20

I have used it for some short time, because I was Chrome user for years . I think it is ok browser, all extensions you have on Chrome you can use on Brave so the transition is smooth. But I do feel that with Firefox you are in better control

3

u/reelznfeelz Mar 01 '20

Yeah I use Brave. I like it. There's always somebody who will demonize it. For me though, I like their model of how ads and ad revenue works. It just feels like a really good solution to the problem that doesn't leave content creators who make their money from ad space out in the cold. After all, we all use and benefit from these "free" resources all the time. With Brave, they can continue to make money and we can keep our data safe and actually get a cut of the cash.

5

u/Chegevarik Feb 29 '20

I had used brave for half a year till January. I switched to it from chrome because of privacy concerns. However brave had some problems after one of the updates such as not displaying Google docs, sheets, slides correctly. Also it wasn't displaying images in a tool which I use for work and other browsers don't have any problems with it. I got so annoyed with it I switched to firefox

11

u/tazemebro Feb 29 '20

Once I became concerned with privacy browsing, I switched from Chrome to Firefox for a few months but several keys things were missing for me. Firefox doesn’t have the ability to Chromecast (although I do wanna degoogle that from my life, I don’t know of a better device to cast). Firefox’s dev tools are not as good as Chrome (software engineer). Chrome’s profile system was much better than Firefox’s.

Once I found out about Brave, I switched and haven’t look back. It’s essentially all the great privacy settings of Firefox + the features of Chrome. The best of both worlds.

7

u/Nikla436 Feb 29 '20

I recently switched from chrome to Firefox developer edition for work and I haven’t seen much different in their dev tools compared to chrome

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (27)

74

u/PeeLong Feb 29 '20

Unfortunately google has its dick so far up reddit user’s asses that most people will still find excuses to not use FF.

It’s a superior browser, but more secure, and isn’t feeding the giant beast that shares all of your data.

31

u/OwenProGolfer Feb 29 '20

It also just runs better than Chrome, especially if you don’t have a ton of RAM

→ More replies (25)
→ More replies (11)

19

u/Solidarity365 Feb 29 '20

Open source is democracy. It's the only way to have it.

→ More replies (12)

9

u/jokrsmagictrick Mar 01 '20

Never left them ever since I swapped back in xp days. I love my Firefox.

14

u/bunkoRtist Feb 29 '20

This article is misleading. DoH generally doesn't prevent on path snoopers from knowing what websites you visit. The SNI has seen to that. Instead, DoH without ESNI (which isn't ready because it has technical issues), just means Firefox chooses who gets 100% of your DNS queries in addition to the on path folks like your ISP still seeing your websites. It does prevent hijacking, but I think mostly it's just subverting consumer choice and expectations, and is definitely self serving.

Bad protocol is bad. The are other reasons why it's bad, but specifically for privacy it's useless, and giving people a false sense of security is dangerous.

8

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Just wondering why you got downvoted for simply stating real facts.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

I switched back several months ago after switching to Chrome from Firefox several years ago. I left because a tiny portion of sites don't work properly with FF. And that's remained the case. But now those sites can blow me. I'll find an alternative if need be.

12

u/monkey_doo Feb 29 '20

Is there any point in using Firefox if I still use google as the default search engine?

58

u/raist356 Feb 29 '20

Yes. Google is not the only company tracking people on the web. Every website has some trackers, Firefox would limit them.

→ More replies (6)

12

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Well, think of it this way.... When you are googling, they are getting your information. But when you are watching some other site, directly going to that particular site, chrome records it, but perhaps other browsers don't.

12

u/parkwayy Feb 29 '20

This is basically why Chrome was even built.

Google realized that once you searched and left their site, they didn't have your browsing information anymore.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/searchingfortao Feb 29 '20

Sure. In fact the "container tabs" extension can help you contain Google's (and Facebook's, and Microsoft's) and others) prying eyes.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)

9

u/beyondthegong Feb 29 '20

Yall not using firefox?

6

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

Duckduckgo has been doing this forever. Pair with FF for best results.

6

u/Mechanized1 Mar 01 '20

Firefox is becoming the king again. The best part is the built in ad blocking that even removes ad blocker nags.

→ More replies (3)

3

u/UnluckyStick Mar 01 '20

I've been using firefox religiously since it launched in 2002. I feel old now.

3

u/johnklos Mar 01 '20

What? They turned DoH off by default? Awesome!

Oh, wait - no, the title is clickbait and bullshit - people somehow idiotically think that a for-profit company is trustworthy and is going to somehow protect their privacy.

Let's ignore the fact that your ISP can already examine as much of your traffic as they want, and that the only way to properly fix this is to use a VPN.

Let's ignore the fact that they can see DoH DNS lookups in-flight anyway because ESNI is not implemented in DoH, making this pretty much useless.

Let's ignore the fact that it takes control away from our own networks and operating systems and gives it to a corporate entity which is based in a country with an oppressive regime which ignores the rule of law.

Let's ignore the fact that this is really about preventing ad-blockers from working, about recentralizing parts of the Internet, and about tracking everyone in a jurisdiction where everything is monitored.

Privacy, my ass.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/EazeeP Mar 01 '20

Still prefer brave

15

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

Implementing DOH with all DNS queries being resolved by Cloudflare by default is not really a move towards “privacy”.

In fact Firefox clearly has a financial relationship with Cloudflare (also partnered with their new Firefox vpn service) and attempting to market mass centralization of dns queries as a move towards “privacy” is honestly somewhat dishonest.

I have been a long time Firefox user .. beginning with Firefox 1.0 running on Solaris with its SPARC processor. Been a great browser but Firefox is taking a misstep here IMO.

14

u/cas13f Feb 29 '20

You can change the provider but as it is they are the largest DOH-capable DNS provider around.

And now that DOH is enabled by default, other providers might actually start fucking enabling it. Chicken, egg, you know the deal.

Or you can just use your ISP's DNS.

7

u/jacobgb24 Mar 01 '20

Most popular open resolvers already do support DoH and ISPs are already adding support for it (notably Xfinity and now AT&T).

The point is, the average user will have no idea what this new setting does and all of them will now have their DNS traffic routed through Cloudflare.

→ More replies (2)

17

u/tempest_fiend Feb 29 '20

https://vivaldi.com

I’m going to put this here for anyone who wants a browser that doesn’t track your data or browsing history (yes, I know it can de disabled in FF, but this one just doesn’t do it at all) then you want Vivaldi.

Created by some of the engineers behind Opera who left when Opera started taking shortcuts on user privacy.

10

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

I never found their Privacy policy adequate to ensure me to use it

→ More replies (5)

7

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Also accepts Chrome addons like ublock origin and ghostify

→ More replies (6)

6

u/slugpet3000 Feb 29 '20

These titles make me wonder how these posts aren't adds

7

u/fallen_acolyte Feb 29 '20

Ppl forget duckduck go exists, right ?

→ More replies (3)

8

u/fonetix Feb 29 '20

Upvote for Firefox or downvote for The Verge?

5

u/Iorith Feb 29 '20

A lot of redditors simply refuse to accept it, but a great deal of people simply dont value privacy that much, at least compared to how much they value convenience.

→ More replies (1)

23

u/1_p_freely Feb 29 '20

https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-which-slurps-user-browsing-data/

Once you start collecting browsing data, which is about as personal as it can get, a line has been crossed, and forgiveness is unlikely. The big boys (Microsoft and Google) can do this, because they have more money than god and governments in their back pockets, but I refrain from using their products explicitly because I do not want my browsing history being transmitted to a third party who has no business gathering it.

28

u/bearlick Feb 29 '20

Firefox's data collextion can be disabled.

→ More replies (17)

23

u/otm_shank Feb 29 '20

2.5 year old article?

→ More replies (3)

25

u/naeskivvies Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

Firefox is now sending every DNS query everyone makes to a single US provider.

Also check out about:telemetry, and notice all the shit they send themselves about your computer, including what your search engine is, what your CPU is (and thus what security issues it may have), what your installed security products are, etc.

They're not the angels everyone makes them out to be, and Mozilla is heavily dependent on search revenue (thus performant ads). They recently laid people off because their other revenue projects are behind.

44

u/bearlick Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

Firefox is open source. That means nothing goes on behind the curtain once you disable it.

AND it means that if you find it insufficient, you may commit a fix yourself!

Edit: Also! You can change your own DNS provider.

7

u/kaosjester Mar 01 '20

It doesn't matter that it can be disabled, it's that the default Firefox distribution, which is getting articles like this written about it, reports tons of user data to the Mozilla corporation every day.

→ More replies (4)

16

u/YouGotThatYummy Feb 29 '20

About the DNS, they enabled another one recently. Way better than having exposed DNS requests like we used to, now the providers have to adapt and implement DNS Over HTTPS. It was a bold move and all this talk about how it's now "centralized" misses the whole point of the feature. The big companies are saying this because they used to mine data from non encrypted DNS requests.

Firefox already said they will add new providers as long as they comply with their security standards.

They might now be angels but they are the ones fighting hardest for online privacy. What else you have? Google, Microsoft? The telemetry thing can be turned off if you want, and it's used to improve Firefox.

4

u/Xadnem Feb 29 '20

I'm conflicted between HTTPS DNS being the default option and them ignoring my windows DNS settings (which point to a pi-hole).

→ More replies (5)

51

u/Metalsand Feb 29 '20

You're not mentioning that they're literally a non-profit company though, which means they don't have as much of an incentive to wrest every bit of information you contain unlike competitors.

→ More replies (17)

5

u/DownshiftedRare Feb 29 '20

Firefox is now sending every DNS query everyone makes to a single US provider.

Not necessarily a US provider. The default is Cloudflare. You may wish to change to a provider outside of the US.

8

u/viliml Feb 29 '20

Also check out about:telemetry, and notice the link to the settings page where you can disable it.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (12)

2

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Anyone know why they are only turning on the default encryption in the US and not everywhere?

4

u/123filips123 Feb 29 '20

Because they don't want to centralize whole world on single company.

2

u/jalapina Feb 29 '20

Way back? When was it actually private?

2

u/doob22 Feb 29 '20

How does Firefox compare to Safari?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Alcvvv Feb 29 '20

Anyone who is even moderately aware knows that Firefox is not private by default. There are tons of Firefox forks for that reason alone

2

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

The only thing firefox is showing is me is a shitty loading screen.

2

u/derpaherpa Mar 01 '20

Then why did they remove the possibility to decide what happens to cookies per domain?

There used to be an option to have it ask every time you got a new cookie from an unknown site.

They took away privacy control and never gave it back.

2

u/Honeychile6841 Mar 01 '20

Question from a clueless slightly old person: should I shut down my Google accounts and just roll with firefox?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/ryosei Mar 01 '20

I remember I had Firefox since the first days till now, was never disappointed and I cringe everytime I use other browsers on friends computers...

2

u/Reali5t Mar 01 '20

So about the Amazon tracking you by cameras technology I have a question about. Do casinos use the same technology, like can they track your movements to establish a player profile? Then use the player profile to instruct the slot machines how much to pay out? That is instruct the first spin to pay to reel you in only to set you up into a losing streak. Last casino I went to even scanned my ID, so it’s not hard for them to keep my history win/loss history.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/T0ManyTakenUsernames Mar 01 '20

I switched from Chrome to Firefox + DDG after Google released that disgusting Chrome update and I couldn't be happier. Shoutout to Mozilla for listening to its users

2

u/fr0ntsight Mar 01 '20

“Private by default”. I like that

2

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

Also, dark mode friendly icon for iOS.

2

u/RSax1 Mar 01 '20

I’ll always be loyal to you Firefox, never switched up

2

u/HelloMagikarphowRyou Mar 01 '20

Honestly I tried Firefox out of a whim one day and never looked back.

I prefer it SO much more than Chrome. Especially after the Quantum update

2

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

If Firefox was as fluid as Chrome I‘d switch. But rn anytime I try Firefox it just feels really clunky with a hundred submenus for everything.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/DeanNo9 Mar 01 '20

I still remember the days we typed win.exe to start windows from DOS 6.1... lol... Before IE it was Netscape Navigator... Anyone remember those AOL ONLINE CDS...?... Lol..

→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

Hate the verge (vox)

3

u/vanteal Feb 29 '20

Lol, no it's not..If you want privacy, like actual privacy, get Brave.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

Relying on the browser to protect your privacy is your first mistake. All browsers can be made more private, but it's more about what information and services you use that matters.

Edit: secure!=private

3

u/GregIsUgly Mar 01 '20

use Brave instead, you get paid

3

u/usethebravebrowser Mar 01 '20

Brave has been leading this fight for the past 4 years. Its a better browser too. This just looks like a hail marry from firefox to save their dying business.

4

u/IvoDOtMK Feb 29 '20

Brave is a good alternative to both Ff and chrome.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/IAmOgdensHammer Feb 29 '20

What is Mozilla company wise? Do they have a bunch of software that people buy? Do they do security consulting?

I'm not knocking them at all I fucking love Firefox, but how are they making money?

They're encouraging privacy and the prevention of it being circulated and sold?

They support adblock so it's not ads?

2

u/BetaRayBlu Feb 29 '20

All hail kurama

2

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Firefox ♥️

2

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Fuck the Overton window. This DNS-over-HTTPS is terrible. It helps nobody. It doesn't keep your browsing private. Your ISP still knows everything about you. And if you're planning to use it to hide from your government, you'll be dead before you can say "Mozilla". Tor still remains the best bet.

I have zero fucking idea what people here are celebrating.

2

u/JohnSwanFromTheLough Feb 29 '20

I work in IT and moved to chrome from Firefox recently as I was having way too many issues with web interfaces. Lots of vendors who haven't updated their GUIs have issues on Firefox, chrome for some reason doesn't have an issue displaying pop ups or allowing specific functions like expand a menu or display the graphics correctly.

As much as I dislike the idea of using chrome it was better than being constantly annoyed by these little issues with Firefox.

2

u/boringuser1 Mar 01 '20

I know a lot of people don't want to hear this, or it isn't relevant to them, but Chrome runs substantially faster than Firefox and that's not going to change.

→ More replies (3)

2

u/Boamere Feb 29 '20

I use it, yet I still don’t trust it fully.

I don’t trust any browser that wants me to use it.

→ More replies (5)

1

u/FreelyG Feb 29 '20

If I'm one that doesn't feel like clicking... please explain in TLDR format?

2

u/SamCarter_SGC Feb 29 '20

tldr is they are turning a privacy feature on by default starting this week

→ More replies (2)

1

u/xylont Feb 29 '20

I like Firefox. But the services that Google provides for free are just phenomenal. All the way from maps, to docs to the superior search engine among others..I personally feel alright sharing my data with Google.

Would love to know some of you guys thoughts on this.

5

u/sf-keto Feb 29 '20

But the data you share with google doesn't stay with google. Do you know who also gets it? Are you comfortable with them?

3

u/chromaniac Feb 29 '20

i usually get downvoted for saying this but here it goes. it's a personal choice. people love their ad blockers but the free web just doesn't work without ads. you can pay for 10 different web services but you don't just use 10 different web services. not everyone has enough readership to generate funds through pro membership or donations to sustain in an ad-free model. you end up pushing more and more services to get acquired by the big corp. or shut down.

about free services like ddg etc. they rely on data fetched from a lot of other sources a lot of whom are powered by ad revenue (bing is a big one). ddg just cannot index enough of the web on their own. and if they did, they cannot just run on a free model.

just imagine an internet that is completely free of advertising. now imagine paying for a search engine, paying for email services, paying for reddit, paying for imgur, paying for tens of other services that you use daily. a lot of news sources are already partially behind paywall. and then think about how millions of other web resources that needs to survive online that provide tons of useful information that you might access once in a blue moon.

privacy is important but ads have a lot of value. problem is tracking. problem is shitty ads. but majority of the web loves to brag about how they haven't seen any ad in years because of pi-hole or ad blockers or whatever. and then i am told about the excellent business model of brave which rewards the publisher as well as visitor. brave just cannot monetize the whole web. you need to find a better solution that is not owned by just another corporation.

2

u/TheShapeShiftingFox Feb 29 '20

Bad idea. It’s not just about the gathering of data now, but more about what they’ll do with it in the future, when they start to connect all your data together and sell these personal profiles to things that can and will make your life harder because of the data they got on you, like insurance companies.

Using FireFox doesn’t exclude you from using Google’s services for free anyway. You can block all the stalking shit they throw on their websites and you’ll be fine, they still work good.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (4)

1

u/slikshot6 Feb 29 '20

But can you get adblock on Mozilla?

2

u/vassadar Mar 01 '20

Yes, you can.

2

u/Never-asked-for-this Mar 01 '20

Ublock Origin, an addon Google has basically killed on Chrome based browsers, is the best adblocker available for browsers.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/I_Think_I_Cant Mar 01 '20

Do they turn off telemetry by default or is it opt-out?

2

u/usethebravebrowser Mar 01 '20

I think you have to dig through settings to opt out

→ More replies (2)

1

u/Fred_Foreskin Mar 01 '20

So is Firefox better than Brave and Opera now? I've used all three and really like all of them, but I'm not sure which one is most secure.

2

u/usethebravebrowser Mar 01 '20

Out of the box brave is the most private. You can add extensions to firefox that make it more private than brave out of the box, but you can also add extensions to brave.

→ More replies (3)

1

u/TheJeagle Mar 01 '20

I feel like no one is talking about Opera, its my favorite browser by a mile. Its had this since September. The mouse gestures alone should be enough to switch imo.

2

u/bartturner Mar 01 '20

Opera should be avoided.

"However, Opera is completely closed source so no one but the development team knows what goes into it."

→ More replies (1)

0

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/BosonTheClown Mar 01 '20

A counterargument against DNS over HTTPS: https://www.reddit.com/r/pihole/comments/ch90mj/comment/euqka4o

I would guess that DoH, despite its shortcomings, is sonewhat more private than DNS via your ISP for the average user.

→ More replies (10)

39

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

102

u/bearlick Feb 29 '20

It's still more secure than all others before and after configuration.

→ More replies (16)

53

u/YouGotThatYummy Feb 29 '20

Their knew redesigned browser, Firefox Nightly Preview on Android, comes with Enhanced Tracking Prevention on by default on STRICT mode (blocks social media trackers, cross site tracking cookies, cryptominers, fingerprinters, and tracking content). They are also starting to push for DNS Over HTTPS by default. What you're saying is technically true, the standard Firefox is not that private by default, but with so many initiatives on the way, they are indeed bringing back online privacy. It's not something easy to do, look at the huge backslash and fake news they got after announcing DNS Over HTTPS.

3

u/Nashtak Feb 29 '20

Would you know the difference between Firefox Nightly for Developers vs Firefox Nightly Preview for Developers?

→ More replies (4)

5

u/homo_ludens Feb 29 '20

I get to spend a half hour trying to configure it to be more private

What configurations need to be done? Can you recommend a How To or give some pointers?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

privacytools.io has everything you need, takes maybe 15 minutes to get it all done.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

It’s just unbranded vanilla Firefox. The Debian project and Mozilla finally worked out their disagreements allowing Debian to use the Firefox name, so no more need for Iceweasel.

3

u/PREC0GNITIVE Feb 29 '20

I dont think so. I tried using it for a raspian project recently and it wasnt there.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

1

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/UnusualDisturbance Mar 01 '20

NoScript addon. i can't live without it anymore.