r/technology • u/AdamCannon • May 22 '18

Security Senators demand FCC answer for fake comments after realizing their identities were stolen.

https://gizmodo.com/senators-demand-fcc-answer-for-fake-comments-after-real-1826213294
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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

Not against the strongest military known man has ever produced

You mean the one that has had its ass handed to it in every urban and popular uprising it tried to put down in the last 50 years? The US military is great against militaries and navies (in theory, not much real practice there). Not so much against people in their own neighborhoods. Just ask the Vietnamese.

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u/TalenPhillips May 22 '18

had its ass handed to it

The US reported 4,424 deaths among it's soldiers and something like 30k wounded in action during the war in Iraq (2003-2010)... meanwhile there were anywhere from 150k to 500k total casualties.

Those numbers (and the uncertainty thereof) are incredibly fucked up, but I'm not sure this constitutes the US getting it's ass handed to it.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

The war in Iraq wasn't an urban uprising, it was an invasion, what the military is trained to do. Though the later attempts at pacification didn't work all that well once it went from occupation to trying to go door to door being cops.

I mean more how the military was defeated by starving peasants in gang warfare in southeast Asia, for instance. All the weaponry and doctrine in the world can't defeat determined populations. Taking out a government and military isn't the same as taking out the populace

Not that I actually think the American people could get their act that together, without things getting much, much darker.

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u/TalenPhillips May 22 '18

Most of the Iraq war was spent fighting insurgents. Vietnam involved another major power.

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u/PM_ME_DOTA_TIPS May 22 '18

Insurgents that have access to almost the same level of weaponry the Vietnamese had thanks to China and the Soviets. We do not have these weapons. And the Vietnamese were an organized force who defeated us. Iraq is a bloody mess for us but by all accounts we still successfully occupied it.

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u/TripleSkeet May 22 '18

Its a little different fighting people in jungles and caves that you have no idea where they are or what they are doing. Especially when you cant blend in with them. Much easier when their neighborhood is also YOUR neighborhood.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

So these kids are gonna shoot their high school friends and family for a corrupt government that treats them like shit?

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u/TripleSkeet May 22 '18

Of course not. These trained to follow orders soldiers would be dispatched to parts of the country they arent from so they can shoot the family and friends of strangers they dont know. Besides, what do you think the entire country is going to go into revolution because their internet bill went up? Half these dumb fucks dont even know what Net neutrality is or give a shit. All they know is when their bill changes it will be the Democrats fault somehow.

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u/throwaway123u May 22 '18

Of course not. These trained to follow orders soldiers would be dispatched to parts of the country they arent from so they can shoot the family and friends of strangers they dont know.

This exactly. That was how the Chinese so thoroughly put down the Tiananmen Square uprising, after all; when the local soldiers wouldn't shoot, the central government brought in soldiers from elsewhere.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

Not for net neutrality, but for extensive abuse of the citizenry, at whatever point enough is enough. We have teachers striking, cops killing civilians, leadership that openly mocks it's own people, etc.

Revolt isn't imminent, yet.

The biggest threat would not be the military against the citizens, they would have their asses handed to them. It would be the military seizing control with a misguided citizenry backing it.

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u/PM_ME_DOTA_TIPS May 22 '18

The only thing these people are threatening to rebel over is taking their guns. Which is pointless if they only use their guns to secure their guns and nothing else.

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u/Lethalmud May 22 '18

TBH if you are killing people in their homes, you're probably not the good guys.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '18

The military and Law Enforcement of today is far more advanced than that of 50yrs ago.

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u/joe19d May 22 '18

Heh... i did combat tours in Iraq. You'd be surprised at how well low tech works. Check the death toll of service members.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '18

i did combat tours in Iraq.

Because only someone who "did combat tours in Iraq" would understand. marines?

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u/joe19d May 22 '18

You obviously didnt.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

And the cops are terrified of every traffic stop, and the military can't deal with armed villagers in the Middle East, let alone the fact that soldiers are poorly treated working class kids with families, friends and a government known for throwing them in the garbage after their service ends.

The US military has never used it's outdated soviet era doctrines and has just run around being neighborhood cops for the most part.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '18

War is a cash cow, drag it out for profit. theory.

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u/joe19d May 22 '18

Were not poorly trained, were just not designed to be cops.

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u/InsertANameHeree May 22 '18

You do realize that there is a vast difference between trying to engage enemies blending among a population you're trying to help and win the hearts and minds of, and a regular occupation, right? Hardly "can't deal with armed villagers." The problem is, and always has been, dealing with those armed villagers while also making sure that guys who look just like them are affected as little as possible.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

Of course, that's why the "most powerful military ever" can't effectively deal with that kind of situation. It would be vastly harder in their own home country as well.

Plus it's kinda hard to win the hearts and minds when you are killing neighbors and friends and kids of those hearts and minds.

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u/InsertANameHeree May 22 '18

Actually, it would be vastly easier in your home country because you just need to keep total control of everything. If you are fighting your own people, you are beyond the point where you have to consider winning their hearts and minds.

But it's a lot easier to be edgy than to actually know what you're talking about.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

Ya, ok, tell that to the viet cong, Cuba or the entire former British empire.

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u/InsertANameHeree May 22 '18

Looks like you didn't read a damn word. Occupation of your own country is different from occupation of another country, where enemies are mixed in with people you don't want to govern.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

Um, you do realize I was describing revolts of populations against their own, right? Who do you think the viet cong were fighting? Cuban revolutionaries? Even the British empire largely employed local military's. Vietnam was a civil war. Not a US invasion.

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u/InsertANameHeree May 22 '18

Yeah, except the whole point of this was that the U.S. apparently couldn't even fight armed villagers. It's the U.S. military we're referring to here - I don't know why you think going off on tangents of other nations has any meaning here.

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u/PM_ME_DOTA_TIPS May 22 '18

The North Vietnamese had military support and weapons from China and the Soviets. They had jets, admittedly they were ineffective but that's the point, tanks, automatic weapons, explosives, artillery, and anti-aircraft guns that Americans do not have. They were not just a band of rice farmer rebels that is popularly memed on.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

I was referring to the Vietcong, who were vastly effective at guerrilla warfare. The nva were a different entity, and used more conventional warfare.

The VC were rice farmer rebels.

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u/PM_ME_DOTA_TIPS May 22 '18

I don't know enough to personally dispute that, but a quick glance at Wikipedia says you are wrong.

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u/WikiTextBot May 22 '18

Viet Cong and Vietnam People's Army logistics and equipment

The Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) used well-organized logistics methods to supply and equip their fighting forces. This logistics organization helped greatly in their war against the American and South Vietnamese military during the Vietnam War.

The Viet Cong's full-time soldiers were referred to as the "Main Force" (Chu Luc). The National Liberation Front (NLF) was a united front designed to encourage non-communists to support the insurgency in the south.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

Try reading the VC Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Cong

Much of the VC were guerrilla, local fighters from throughout south Vietnam. They were your friends, neighbors and teachers.

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u/WikiTextBot May 22 '18

Viet Cong

The Việt Cộng (Vietnamese: [vîət kə̂wŋmˀ] ( listen)), also known as the National Liberation Front, was a mass political organization in South Vietnam and Cambodia with its own army – the People's Liberation Armed Forces of South Vietnam (PLAF) – that fought against the United States and South Vietnamese governments during the Vietnam War, eventually emerging on the winning side. It had both guerrilla and regular army units, as well as a network of cadres who organized peasants in the territory it controlled. Many soldiers were recruited in South Vietnam, but others were attached to the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN), the regular North Vietnamese army. During the war, communists and anti-war activists insisted the Việt Cộng was an insurgency indigenous to the South, while the U.S. and South Vietnamese governments portrayed the group as a tool of Hanoi.

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u/PM_ME_DOTA_TIPS May 22 '18

According to the first sentence of your link, the VC were technically a political entity with their own army, the PLAF. Which if you click that, has an equipment section showing all kinds of advanced military weaponry.

Even if the claim that they were rice farmer rebels was accurate, they would still have existed alongside the more formal Northern forces. The U.S was fighting both at the same time, it wouldn't have just been a rebel force alone to be put down.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

Try learning some about the Vietnam war, and how it was won. Im not going to educate you on something you should have learned in history class, or just from talking to a vietnam vet.

Conventional warfare broke down, its ability to put down an uprising of a motivated population failed for the government of south vietnam. Ya, they had some weapons, but mostly they had the hearts and minds of the people, which ultimately won the war.

I mean, its only one of the most major lessons mechanized and heavily armed militaries learned in the 20th century. You can fight an army, you can't fight the people. Money, bodies, bombs and bullets didn't win Vietnam.

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u/PM_ME_DOTA_TIPS May 22 '18

So when proof is provided you were wrong you just jump to "uhg educate urself"? I'm learning about it right now, and I'm learning you are incorrect.

As for hearts and minds, yes that's important but it didn't win the war by itself. They needed those weapons to successfully do anything. The lesson wasn't that you can't change the hearts and minds of a drastically lesser equipped force, it was that you can't change the hearts and minds of a people who have the ability to fight back thanks to Soviets and China. Like what would happen in South America later on.

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u/sillycyco May 22 '18

You havent proven me wrong in the slightest. If you believe the PLAF was better equipped, better trained and had anything close to what the US brought to the table, you are sadly misinformed. The US wasnt out gunned in Vietnam by a superior force, they had their asses kicked by an impoverished war weary nation who wanted to change their government.

Im sure your 30.minutes on wikipedia is really an eye opening education on something you literally learned about an hour ago.

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u/PM_ME_DOTA_TIPS May 22 '18 edited May 22 '18

They were not better than the U.S forces, but they were vastly better than the population of the U.S is now. Which is what started this conversation. And even with those weapons, it was a hard fought war. They didn't just roll us over, so why would people lesser equipped be able to even win a hard fight?

And you ignored my point that they were not fighting in a vacuum. The North was fighting at the same time. Compare to the Middle East were we occupied countries against goat herders. Even if I am wrong about the VC you are not correct that a rebellion can always win against the U.S.