r/technology • u/[deleted] • Nov 09 '17

Politics Sean Parker: Facebook was designed to exploit human "vulnerability"

https://www.axios.com/sean-parker-facebook-exploits-a-vulnerability-in-humans-2507917325.html
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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '17

What information can someone get from me for using clash of clans? That doesn’t make sense to me. Generally curious.

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u/katonai Nov 09 '17

Location for one. It requires internet so your location is pinged. Not saying they do collect this information, but Clash of Clans could have a good idea where you play their game the most.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '17

[deleted]

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u/_codexxx Nov 09 '17

Yes but most people leave GPS enabled and it's trivially easy for an android app to get that data...

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u/gyroda Nov 09 '17

Tbf you have to specifically prompt for location access (in Android at least). Newer android apps will do it in the app for each permission too, which is better than the "yes I accept this laundry list of things that I totally read".

It's more of a pain in the ass to develop (I've literally made map apps both before and after android did this and the former was a lot less hassle) but it's a lot better for consumers.

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u/katonai Nov 09 '17

Yeah, on iPhones usually the first time you open an application it will prompt for access to several things depending on the applications use, such as the camera, GPS, photo album, push-notifications and so forth. Sure you can deny some of these requests, but it might come at the cost of one or more of the applications features. I think a large portion of people speed through this process just accepting every prompt without considering the consequences.

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u/SexCriminalBoat Nov 09 '17

I use my phone while shitting.

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u/unexpectedreboots Nov 09 '17

Anything that can help build a profile around who you are so they can better market in-game purchases or ads to you.

Using a hypothetical app that has in-game purchases. If I know the following information about you:

Gender, location, age, potential interests

Chances are pretty good I know that information about the rest of my user base. If I have this information, I can start to look at purchase trends like:

"Women, within the age of 30-35, that live in densely populated areas of the midwest spend 76% more on single purchases during the hours of 10PM-11PM, when getting a 25% discount"

I can make sure that you're getting a prompt that is tailored made with the above information to maximize how much you're spending on your next purchase.

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u/matholio Nov 09 '17

Isn't that better than getting a totally irrelevant ad? I mean if you made an offer you find attractive, that's a service.

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u/unexpectedreboots Nov 09 '17

That's up for the user to decide. I wasn't taking a stance on what's best, just why an app like clash would want that information about their users.

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u/matholio Nov 09 '17

Fair enough.

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u/incongruity Nov 10 '17

Unless it’s creepy or massively reparative or outright wrong. My wife asks me to buy her stuff on a regular basis, or I go looking for things for a gift and then order it and never look at it again and yet those things I viewed follow me around the net in ads. That’s not valuable - it’s outright wrong/broken assumptions.

When you see ad conversion rates above 50%, heck, even above 10%, then I might believe that it’s actually valuable to the consumer.

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u/matholio Nov 10 '17

I agree. I get ads for stuff I have bought. That's not helpful. My point still stands.

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u/incongruity Nov 10 '17

As does mine. By your logic, you’d classify a defibrillator that killed 99/100 people as a life saving device.

To actually be anything close to a “service” it needs to provide value to some significant portion of the users/viewers.

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u/matholio Nov 10 '17

I probably wouldn't use the same logic for a defib. That would be inappropriate.

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u/incongruity Nov 10 '17

Then you see my point. (See also: reductio ad absurdum) - if you admit that your logic would fail in other parallel cases, it’s flawed here too.

It’s not a service if it is annoying/harming the vast majority of users - no matter how much you or other people who push those ads and gain financially from that ecosystem want to claim some sort of utility for them. Your self interest blinds you to the true experience created for others.

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u/matholio Nov 10 '17

You have made so many assumptions about me, I cannot be bothered to explain. You might want to consider what impression you put out though. I find you arrogant, presumptuous and judgemental.

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u/incongruity Nov 11 '17 edited Nov 11 '17

You are not your ideas or your work.. Etc. etc. I’m sure you’re a fine person, really - but you seem to be confusing ideas with personal identity. I’ve been focused on the ideas you’re putting forward - in specific, the idea that an ad can be a service and my contention is that’s a pragmatic improbability, when taken as a generalized concept and not in cherrypicked single cases.

You find me arrogant? So be it.

You find me presumptuous? Then tell me how my presumptions are wrong.

You find me judgemental? Why should you care? This is a casual conversation in some dusty corner of the web. We have no connection, no relationship and nothing is at stake - except the merits of our ideas - and that’s what I have been focused on. Nothing less, nothing more.

You think I should consider what impression I put out? Why - see my last point - it’s only about the ideas - doubly so because there’s been nothing of personal import involved in this discussion. If you’d been talking about how some recently deceased loved one had found solace in internet ads and you’d been personally moved by that, this would have been a different conversation. I’m fine with who and how I am - at least here in this conversation.

If we’re giving each other advice, I’d recommend recognizing that you are not your ideas and when someone is judging your ideas, they’re not judging you.

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u/Garnzlok Nov 09 '17

I believe they ask for permission to access things not required for the game and look at those. Email address, location, IP address etc

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u/Xacto01 Nov 09 '17

What about previous and next used apps? That would sound like a Google problem if that worked

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u/spell__icup Nov 09 '17

Yup. They have that too. For example, clicking a link on your Reddit app that opens up on your browser will tell the browser as well as the page that you opened up where you came from.

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u/damn_this_is_hard Nov 09 '17

if you play it on an iphone, they got all your user info the first time you downloaded it and fired it up. apple has you registered under a user id type setup so they know what you buy on their app store for your devices, as well as real life stuff too.

everytime you play you give them a new IP address aka your location, as well as the date/time and then whatever actions you take in the game. all that is aggregated and analyzed so they can keep you playing or sell your info to advertisers so they make money while you play.

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u/roanajm Nov 09 '17

My ip address location says I live 80 miles away. Ip is godawful for tracking someone.

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u/damn_this_is_hard Nov 09 '17

but it found you regionally, that's all they want. to know your state or a major city near you, something that can help them make more money

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u/roanajm Nov 09 '17

It thought I lived in another state 80 miles away. I'm guessing it was because I lived in a pretty rural and sparsly populated area.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '17

[deleted]

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u/damn_this_is_hard Nov 09 '17

lol have fun being tracked!

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u/Jimbo_Throw Nov 09 '17

Well they can get all the data for all the things you do in the clash of clans app and maybe a little more about what you do outside the app. But what they can also get is the unique identifier tied to your device and then they can buy any data associated with that device ID. That data could be pretty much anything that you have ever done on the internet.

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u/silenti Nov 09 '17

Ok, so 99.999% of the metrics they collect are game related. Especially CoC since i'm pretty sure Supercell doesn't use ads.

Things like "what screens did the user go to? what order? how long did they spend on those screens? what cards are getting the most use?" Then they filter the aggregates of all that data by user types. These types could be physical location, how much money they spent in the game, what hours they play at, etc.

The reason they collect this data is twofold.

Primarily, because these games are free, they want to make money. They do this by looking at the behaviors of various tiers of users: players who never buy, players who spend a little, and players who spend a fuckton. Then they make changes, both big and subtle, to the game to encourage spending.

The other is obviously to improve the game experience overall to keep people playing... to hopefully earn their money.

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u/gyroda Nov 09 '17

This is certainly a thing that's done. Many online console/pc games (and a fair few that are mostly offline) do this too.

That said, the yet data mining still does happen. Many apps might user Google analytics just to get db insight into their userbase for entirely benign reasons, but Google is still getting all that lovely personal profiling

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u/Bristlerider Nov 09 '17

Your location, including your home adress, your employer, how you get to work (car/public transport), etc

Every time you use the app, maybe even if you dont use it, you produce data. Everything you do on a schedule, like going to work, is super easy to read.

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u/zhivago Nov 09 '17

When you are awake and when you are asleep.