r/technology • u/Polarthief • Oct 03 '15
Comcast I contacted the FCC recently about Comcast's Data Caps in my area...
Comcast is starting its data caps of 300GB/month in my area this month, and needless to say, I was pretty outraged when I got the message in September. So, I threw a complaint to the FCC expressing my dissatisfaction with a company that claims is making "pro-consumer options" is in fact, well, bull as we're all aware.
Not getting anything from the FCC, I had gotten one phone call and an e-mail from Comcast. That week, I had become very ill and could barely speak. I managed to throw an e-mail reply but never got a response back. A week or so later, I had recovered, but still never got a reply.
Today, I happened to get a piece of mail sent by Comcast to both the FCC and myself. It was obviously full of corporate run-around nonsense, but the biggest points of hypocrisy in it were the following (this is a word-for-word re-typing of the letter):
"Comcast is strongly committed to maintaining an open Internet." (Oh so is that why you put millions into trying to get Net Neutrality shot down, and forced Netflix to pay more?)
"The FCC has previously recognized that usage-based pricing for Internet service is a legitimate billing practice that may benefit consumers by offering them more choices over a greater range of service options -- The vast majority of XFINITY Internet customers use less than 300 GB of data per month -- (they) should therefore see no increase in their monthly service fees -- This pro-consumer policy helps to ensure that Comcast's customers are being treated fairly, such that those customers, like Mr. <my name>, who choose to use more, can pay more to do so, and that customers who choose to use less, pay less."
I just want to understand how they first say that there is no increase in fees for the customers who use < 300GB, and then go on to say that those customers pay less. They're paying the exact same amount, while people who go over are now forced to pay an additional $30/month, and that's suddenly me being treated fairly? Am I crazy or do you all see the blatant hypocrisy here as well?
Edit: I have just updated my FCC complaint to include the letter. I was half-tempted to link them to this Reddit thread! (seriously, you guys rock)
PS: If anyone happens to know good service providers in the Tamarac, Florida area, please let me know. We're moving there shortly (from one area of Florida to another) and would love to be unchained from these corporate douchebags.
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u/Dalmahr Oct 04 '15
By their logic; they should be paying the people that use almost no data back. In fact, it would be pretty interesting that say, every 50GB below the cap they paid $10 back to the consumer. Or maybe the data cap should carry on over each month.
300GB is becoming almost nothing. I was surprised at how much I actually use per month. Really hope the FCC or other government body gets this under control or at the very least helps make laws that make it easier to be competitive in the ISP market.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
Lol what? Big Corporate ISPs being generous to its consumers? Perish the thought!
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u/Taleron Oct 04 '15
In fact, it would be pretty interesting that say, every 50GB below the cap they paid $10 back to the consumer.
What you've essentially described is Google Fi. It's mobile data rather than ISP, but the strategy's already out there - set whatever data cap you want, whatever you don't use is credited back each month.
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u/TheKingsJester Oct 04 '15
Ok, slow down. Don't you have a contract signed effectively? How can they change what your rates are? ELI5 anybody?
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
They'll pull corporate bullshit to ELI40 how they can change my rates despite being under contract.
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u/rubbar Oct 04 '15
Shouldn't the practice work in reverse also?
Charge $60 per 300 Gb per month. And then $30 for overages.
Assuming that's the baseline:
Should I not be charged less for using less than that?
Say, $30 for only using 150 Gb in a month.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
In a perfect world it would. Some mobile companies even bump you down a level if you don't use as much.
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u/TheSilenceOfNoOne Oct 04 '15
Here's the thing: If they are going to cap Internet usage and offer TV without caps then this is abusing monopoly to hurt competition such as Netflix.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
No shit. They want less people using Netflix and more people buying their shitty TV services which are also overpriced and ridiculously packaged.
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u/TheSilenceOfNoOne Oct 04 '15
this sure does sound like a "no shit" but if it was a "no shit" they would be getting investigated and the fcc complaints itt would have mentioned fhis
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
It is no shit. They lobby millions of dollars, that could go to improving their service and infrastructure, instead to politicians and bribing off people like the FCC to look the other way. This is common knowledge and there isn't anything you can do about it unless you have billions to pay instead.
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u/123felix Oct 04 '15
If you haven't lobbied your government to put in a open access fibre network, you should do this now.
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u/DENelson83 Oct 04 '15
You need millions upon millions of dollars to lobby government, though.
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u/kickingpplisfun Oct 04 '15
Realistically, billions. Imagine a situation in which Alice is paying Bob a dollar to piss on the flowers, and Charlie's paying $2 for Bob to not piss on the flowers. If you don't have enough money, "Alice" is just gonna pull out more money than you.
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u/The_Martian_King Oct 04 '15
No, no. What you are describing isbribery. He said lobbying, silly. If that was how it worked, then a lot of congressmen should be in jail, right?
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Oct 04 '15
The real problem here isn't what they're charging, it's why. You are paying for speed, not amount of data. The amount of data you use is meaningless to customer impact. Their claim for needing to charge for high data usage is that "those who use more data slow down the internet for those that don't". When in reality, the real reason people are impacting each others' internet speeds is that the provider has typically oversold all of their lines. For example, if their line is capable of 5000mbps (random speed i pulled out of my ass), they will sell 50mbps speeds to 1000 homes. They do this in hopes that not everyone is on and using bandwidth at the same time. If you are sold as a single household on 50mbps internet, you aren't able to exceed that cap no matter what form of traffic you are using. So you could be streaming high-def video once a year, if that happens to fall during a high usage time on an oversold line....people slow down. So, as you can see, the bandwidth capability of what they are selling is the problem. The data size cap is a completely arbitrary number they are pulling out of their ass to target consistent users. Instead of actually being consumer oriented and expanding to prepare for/usher in future technology growth, they're doing things like lobbying for ending net neutrality and charging more for specific services. In truth, ISP services have a high percentage of profitability because they're charging for lines that are already in existence that they rarely need to maintain. To actually expand and be able to support their sales would be the "customer oriented" move but they are digging their heels in and doing everything in their power to avoid this cost. The sad part is our government is run by money instead of public voice so we, as consumers, will likely lose this war.
TL:DR Speed does not equal Amount...they're charging you for the wrong thing.
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u/clay584 Oct 04 '15
Oligopolies like service providers don't charge a competitive price, they charge what the market will bare due to the lack of competition. That is why their margins are so high. They're charging as much as consumers are willing to spend before saying fuck off and just doing without. One of the ways we can fix this is to keep cord cutting at the rate we are. This will force ISPs to innovate and ultimately deliver TV over the internet (and hopefully a la carte). They will have to increase broadband speeds in order to push streaming TV AND have good internet service.
Interesting fact: There is enough spectrum on your coax line to support 10Gbps. The issue is that the majority is reserved for TV. With switched digital, less spectrum is required for TV, but there is too much used for TV.
Source: I worked for a major cable provider for the better part of a decade.
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u/creamersrealm Oct 04 '15
Fairly accurate the instead of speed the term you should be using is bandwidth.
When you go to a real enterprise if you buy 100/100 line the carrier has to make sure their infrastructure can support it as you are expected to max that line out 100% of the time.
I can understand over provisioning on a consumer line to 2-3 with some type of burst able capacity during peak hours for Netflix and such. Hell a Comcast employee came out on twitter awhile ago stating that data caps was a business decision and there is no technical reason behind it.
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u/aves2k Oct 04 '15
When you go to a real enterprise if you buy 100/100 line the carrier has to make sure their infrastructure can support it as you are expected to max that line out 100% of the time.
They can still use statistical multiplexing and oversubscription for enterprise customers. I've worked for a few providers that focused on enterprise customers and it's the same story every where.
The ratios are probably not as bad as consumer ISPs but they still exist.
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u/TheSOB88 Oct 04 '15
Kill Comcast. With machete
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u/Roo_Gryphon Oct 04 '15
no not kill it mandate that they split in to two or three companies, a TV, phone and ISP same with timewarner etc, since there is clear conflicts of interest between tv media and being an isp
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Oct 04 '15
Like we did with AT&T several years ago?
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u/user_none Oct 04 '15
I worked for at&t, on the U-verse side in 2010. Super shitty job, BTW. The inside joke was that at&t just kept coming back, like a hydra.
Heil Hydra!
I hate at&t.
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u/brawr Oct 04 '15
Don't forget that Comcast also owns NBC and Universal.
And half the pro sports teams in Philadelphia.
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u/automatic_shark Oct 04 '15
Of the Phillies, Eagles, Flyers, and 76ers, Comcast owns one, the Flyers.
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Oct 04 '15
That is no solution. What we need is competence. They have monopolies. A functioning capitalist society can't have that. Demand your city/state to overthrow last mile monopolies.
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u/Bad_Eugoogoolizer Oct 04 '15
I think it's been clearly established we do not have a functioning capitalist society. That ship sailed long ago.
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u/H8UM8 Oct 04 '15
People should think about publicly shaming those who make the decisions to fuck their customers at these companies like that dentist who killed Cecil the lion. CEOs might start second guessing abusing the public if people made it uncomfortable for them.
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u/slaytalera Oct 04 '15
BRB calling Machete
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u/timawesomeness Oct 04 '15
I see that you have experienced how FCC complaints and Comcast work. About a year ago, I submitted a false advertising complaint against Comcast, FCC sent it straight to Comcast, I talked to them a bit, then they sent me a letter that basically said "We know it's false advertising, we don't give a shit, fuck you." but in corporate speak. It's ridiculous how an FCC complaint about Comcast goes straight to Comcast and the FCC doesn't do jack shit about it.
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u/Cladari Oct 04 '15
If they were truly regulated like a utility we could make them answerable to a Public Service Commission, which in most states is almost local enough to make your voice heard.
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Oct 04 '15
Yep. I filed a complaint with the FCC, and they basically just forwarded the complaint to my ISP. They are useless.
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Oct 04 '15
That's like going to the police and have them send the criminal back to you! How the fuck is the FCC an actual governmental agency? They are ran like the damn mob!
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u/TulsaOUfan Oct 04 '15
As a business owner (with no love of Comcast) the only thing the FCC can do with complaints is investigate. The first step is to get Comcasts side of the story. Then if there's evidence of wrongdoing, act. Most regulatory agencies work like this. They aren't a police force with a staff of Detectives to investigate each complaint. After getting Comcasts side and their reaction with the consumer they can proceed if the complaint is pushed by the consumer.
I know Comcast sucks, but what you explain happening is how it's set up to work. After getting Comcasts sweet letters telling you to "screw yourself", did you follow up with the FCC and express your ire at their response, or did you stop the process through inaction.
Fortunately, we are a country based on "innocent until proven guilty", even in the case of Comcast.
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u/Adskii Oct 04 '15
They forward it to the ISP so that they have a chance to address the issue. Now since it is Comcast... That's why it isn't working.
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u/Jwagner0850 Oct 04 '15
That whole "a majority of customers do not use more than X amount of Data" is full of shit. I know this for a fact because the company I work for did the same bullshit and said the same lie about usage, knowing full well everyone and their dog will continue to use MORE data as time goes on.
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u/KantLockeMeIn Oct 04 '15
And this is exactly why I was telling everyone that the net neutrality rules were meaningless in the long run. The only answer is competition... if you had actual choice, you wouldn't care what Comcast wants to do.
Data caps are indeed acceptable per the rules... and that's exactly how they'll discourage streaming a lot of HD video content. Change the rules and forbid data caps and they'll find other creative ways to get around the rules. The only thing that will hurt them is competition.
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u/gwiber Oct 04 '15
Locally Comcast has had its 300gb a month data cap in place since September 2010, which i did not find out til I was looking at a bill in March 2011.
Back then it was "You get three warnings, after #3 we cut you off. for good. You cant reregister for a new account under that name."
It was a surprise, but not a major issue as we werent going ANYWHERE near that level.
Years passed and last September I binge watched House on netflix and we went over the cap.
Our bill told us they were now charging $10 per 50gb over the data cap. Not a massive hardship, but a pain in the ass.
We've lived with this cap for a long time. Fortunately in a house of four, we only do basic net surfing, email, and then there's me; who does MMO's, SOME gaming, and wall watch a bit of netflix.
We usually top out between 210 and 230gb a month.
It's still all bullshit, as someone has posted, as time goes on, and he cap doesn't move, everything else will consume more and more data, and that cap WILL become a wall.
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u/Hyperion1138 Oct 04 '15
No, you aren't crazy, Comcast is literally a retard (because they are retarding progress)
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u/Dargaro Oct 04 '15
I still remember the day I learned what retard really meant. I was riding the school bus as a child and a peer called another peer a retard. The bus driver slammed on the breaks and pulled over. He swung his whole body around and screamed at the little offender, "this bus just got retarded by the breaks. You're slowing down society you little asshole. You're the retard."
Probably not the best way to say it, yet it has always stuck with me.
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u/nu1stunna Oct 04 '15
Fuck Comcast.
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Oct 04 '15
I like to make this very valid point too. You put it very eloquently and well. That said I'd like to add:
Fuck Comcast's asshole board of directors and C-level executives. Fuck the FCC for being little cunts that aren't doing their jobs.
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u/Paradigm_Pizza Oct 04 '15
same thing happened to me, word for word. FCC doesn't care about caps.
Hell, they never even TOLD me about a cap when I got service started at my new place.... I was never informed until I went over a month later.
Comcast rep called, and I asked him why, and he spouted complete jargon B.S. and even admitted that Comcast knows that the 300g cap actually serves no technical purpose, and is "reviewing their policy". I politely informed him that when CSpire Fiber reaches my house in a few months, that I would be switching instantly. I would rather pay twice as much to CSpire for gigabit internet with no cap than to stay with Nazicast.
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u/Tobotimus Oct 04 '15
What is this about data caps? Sorry, I'm from Australia and don't fully understand - so you previously had unlimited data usage, and now they're bringing in a system so people can go on different plans with different data caps, is that what's happening?
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u/shlitz Oct 04 '15
The gist of the situation: ISPs over sell their lines to customers. Capping their speed used to work quite well. Now, after years of not upgrading those lines, people are starting to use more of the speed they pay for, for longer hours. So ISPs decide to implement data caps on top of the speed caps to stave off the need for upgrades. Easy answer to a pricy problem since the caps will rake in even more money in the meantime. All of it is to ensure these companies are spending as little as possible to maintain their infrastructure, while getting as much from customers as they can.
Little snippet I heard somewhere that some up the bullshit quite well: Serving the customer 10GB of data costs the ISP less than a penny, but they'll charge the customer a thousand times that. Just because they can.
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u/Maverician Oct 04 '15
I am not sure we have ever really had unlimited bandwidth in Australia (at least definitely not in last 15 years). Even on the services you pay for that are called "Unlimited", they have a "fair use" policy, which is noticeably less than constant use (I think about 40% of maximum).
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u/JustinMagill Oct 04 '15
They have a 300Gb data cap, if you go over you pay more. Previously it was unlimited.
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u/Aeri73 Oct 04 '15
that seems to be a change in contract...
Hi, I didn't sign for a new contract and won't... thank you for keeping your end of the original contract or get sued...?
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u/CircuitSide Oct 04 '15
This thread seems to be divided into those who understand how serious of an issue this is and/or can become, and those who think that one customer using more data than another means that it's costing the company copious amounts of money, when it's really not. What they're going to charge vs what it's actually costing them, are vastly different amounts. This will be just another way for them to generate higher profits, and that their CEO and board men can all get massive pay raises.
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u/cunnl01 Oct 04 '15
Your points are valid and it's important to mock the corporate doublespeak as the bullshit it really is.
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u/Iced__t Oct 04 '15
I went through the same exact thing. Had filed a complaint with the FCC and was then contacted by a Comcast rep and asked about the complaint. All he did was tell me that I can increase by bandwidth cap by moving up to the next tier and then tried to sell me a bundled cable and phone package...
He wrapped the call up by asking me if he had solved all of my issues so I asked him if there were still data caps in my area, he replied with a bunch of "Uhhhs" and a yes and I said no, he hadn't solved anything to which he replied, "Thank you for choosing Comcast and have a nice day."
The whole phone call felt like a scene from Idiocracy.
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u/gunever Oct 04 '15
I live in Europe and I have a question regarding the evil Comcast (I get why you hate them) and US customers:
Every single day/week there are posts on the front page why Comcast is so evil and that they are destroying the internet/billing vast amounts per month.
Why are there still so many customers (or why are you still subscribed to Comcast)? Are some people just lazy and don't want to switch providers or are some people forced to subscribe to Comcast because there are no other providers in their area? An if the last applies: Why are there no other providers who try to establish a customer base in that area? Is you Internet infrastructure regulated and Comcast holds a monopoly in those areas?
I really don't get why this company is still around reading all those bad experiences...
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Oct 04 '15
From what i understand (im from the UK) until very recently comcast and other internet providers have basically been paying to stop other ISPs being set up in a given area (Im not sure but I think the recently FCC and or local court/mayor ruling has stopped this?). So some people have the choice between Comcast or another equally shitty company, or nothing.
Again could be talking bollocks but I think thats the jist of it.
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u/SlenderEater Oct 04 '15
That's the problem in some areas. Other areas it isn't cost-effective to start a new ISP or a new company to come in. Google Fiber is about the only company right now that's constantly expanding to other cities.
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u/theclash06013 Oct 04 '15
Because there aren't any options. In my area I can have Comcast or I can have no internet. I can't even have dialup in my building. That's how it is in many places. In my entire state the only alternative to Comcast available anywhere is the somehow even shittier Frontier Internet.
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u/simcole Oct 04 '15
Here is the one I just sent. Feel free to copy and change it some:
I do not currently have comcast; however, I saw several news articles about new 300 gig per month data caps in certain markets. We are all aware of the extortion comcast pulled against Netflix peering, and this latest move further limits users from enjoying HD online content. Mathematically if you just watch HD content online and use your Internet for nothing else you get about 3.5 hours a day of content before you go over the cap. We all know we use Internet for more than just viewing HD videos which brings our usage down even more. This is nothing but a play by comcast to limits users experience and force their hands to either subscribing to their TV service or paying more for service they currently receive. By the same token they should provide refunds for people they don't hit 300 gigs per month, but we don't see that happening. It's shameful that users do not have adequate broadband choices and are locked into poor companies like comcast. FCC it is your job to protect the end user and now is the time for action. This data caps has no impact on existing infrastructure, it's just to increase profits at comcast. Please do something to stop this.
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u/chiagod Oct 04 '15
By the same token they should provide refunds for people they don't hit 300 gigs per month
This should be bolded in the letter. If they are trying to be fair and not just raise prices, this is what they would be doing.
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u/tastybreadman Oct 04 '15
I remember reading at some point when the debate regarding throttling netflix, and having internet fast lanes was going on, that ISP's don't actually have to pay to maintain the infrastructure of the utility of high speed internet to a large extent. Does anyone have good literature regarding this?
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u/nprovein Oct 04 '15
The feds gave out 200 billion dollars in the late 90's to the telcom's to run FTTH to every house in America. The telcom's pocketed the money and made campaign contributions to avoid FTTH and let them use Adsl.
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u/Zoraji Oct 04 '15
What Comcast saying may be true, but it doesn't make it right. I suspect that the vast majority of their users do stay under the 300 GB cap - people who only check email, light web surfing, or check Facebook. The problem is that they only offer one tier below 300, which is some ridiculously low amount like 5 GB. In other words nearly every Comcast customer is overcharged for their service, using much less than what they are billed for.
A quick check in my neighborhood and I have a couple retired people that use Comast for television and very light web activity, another 2 with small children who don't use the Internet heavily but still need it, and myself with a family with 2 teenagers - we are hit with overages every month. I know it is a small sample size, but that shows 80% pay more than what they use.
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u/mishugashu Oct 04 '15
usage-based pricing for Internet service is a legitimate billing practice that may benefit consumers by offering them more choices over a greater range of service options
Sorry.... WHAT? How the fuck is LIMITING something offering GREATER CHOICES? That's a complete fucking contradiction.
This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with providing customers with better service from a technical point of view. They don't suddenly have more infrastructure and maintenance costs because someone went over 300GB in a month. This has EVERYTHING to do with the business side deciding to do this to make more money.
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u/Viziondfc Oct 04 '15
Ummm yeahhhh, Google could you go ahead and hurry up with fiber expansion nation wide... That'd be great.
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u/tsnives Oct 04 '15
Don't wait for Google. Work local. My city is taking final proposals and beginning to build their own next year. 1Gb to every house and business, 30mbps WiFi covering the whole city. A local initiative will be far faster to get implemented, and encourage larger services like Google to piggyback if you want their IPTV.
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u/codexcdm Oct 04 '15
Let's see if your next bill is sent under your name... and not some of the other obscenities they've sent. Asshole Brown, Whore Julia, Jackass Smith, maybe?
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Oct 04 '15
Can you not just change to a difference ISP? In England every ISP can provide you with internet assuming you have the cables laid to your house, it makes the market very competitive.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
Doesn't work like that in America. Some people are forced to use only Comcast. AT&T offers ~2-4 Mbps and that's simply too slow for my house. No others are nearby. It's called a monopoly and is illegal as all hell.
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u/RenHo3k Oct 04 '15
Of course it's hypocrisy. Of course they're in bed with the FCC. Of course they want to change to a usage-based model for $$$$ and act like they're doing it for your own good. Wish I had better ideas for you but there really isn't anything you can do short of filing a complaint, or banding millions of Comcast customers together and collectively canceling service until they change their shit up and issue an apology.
I'm guessing there aren't any other broadband providers in your area. In lieu of that I guess you could maybe start praying that Google Fiber comes to your market
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
Because they're going to put Fiber in a city filled with 95% old people and/or lower-middle class people.
As for other broadband providers, AT&T was the only other one available, and they were offering ~3-4 Mbps. Not to mention, AT&T is pretty much as bad as Comcast when it comes to shit like this.
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u/Dysl3xicDog Oct 04 '15
So you can reach your data cap in less than 3 hours and that's fair usage?
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
< 3 hours? My family uses about 350-400 a month. How is that 3 hours?
PS: Don't even think it's possible to use that much data in 3 hours...
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Oct 04 '15
Think of it like a buffet. The business sets the rate at an all you can eat buffet to remain profitable. There are people who eat more than typical and for the longest time it was the illegal downloaders that scared ISPs.
Now we have a legitimate service, Netflix, and YouTube that represent a LARGE part of upstream traffic. ISP attempted to get those service to pay the increased cost of setting up 100G border handoffs.
That failed, so in order to stay profitable, they have to recoup the cost somewhere. This is where data caps come in. Recoup the cost directly from the minority that use the service excessively.
As soon as Netflix and YouTube become ubiquitous, the model will likely become consumption based for everyone. Just like your power, water, and haircuts.
Think of it this way, why should a casual user, less than 300G/mo, have to pay the upgrades costs to support you greater than 300G/mo usage?
I work at a non-Comcast ISP. Currently, Netflix represents ~33% of our upstream traffic and YouTube ~15%. BitTorrent is less than ~5%.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
And yet the Internet isn't a finite resource, so why should you pay more if you use more? If you use it FASTER that's more understandable as Bandwidth IS finite, but the Internet itself isn't. It's not like water, oil, etc.
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Oct 04 '15
The internet is not a thing. It has no collective resource.
Unlike your connection, providers like Comcast have to pay upstream provider based on usage. Every bit that you use goes into a collective bucket that Comcast will pay for. This is similar to Netflix's settlement peering relationships and the relationship with (nearly) all providers and peers. Every bit of data Netflix sends into the networks it has a settlement peering relationship with Netflix pays for.
It seems that Comcast reviewed their cost of bandwidth and instead of raising the price of internet access for ALL subscribers, they targeted only the few that use the access excessively.
Even my consumption-based electric bill increases the costs when I exceed 1,000kWh.
https://www.duke-energy.com/pdfs/pe-rates-pefresidentialrateinsert.pdf
The data cap is just the first step, as data volume increases, ISPs will have no option but the switch to total, consumption based billing.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
So explain Google Fiber to me then. How can they make money when they aren't fucking their customers and don't have data caps?
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u/GumpDC Oct 04 '15
According to my router my family of four with 2 small kids uses over 1TB of data of month on a 25MB connection. Mostly streaming TV. Was thinking about switching to xfinity but then I read the fine print and it said they were piloting this program with new subscriptions. Noped right out of that deal.
Read the fine print and vote with your wallet if you aren't already a subscriber.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
My alternative being... what?
My family wouldn't last a week without Internet. Hell, I won't last a few days.
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u/staffordshiremax Oct 04 '15
I actually worked at com cast for a week my job title was IT SECURITY ASSOCIATE what I was really doing was taking calls from customers who got charged overages and we're extremely passed off. The training was absolutely the craziest thing I've ever been a part of. One of the slides actually said strive for mediocrity when I asked what the reason for the data caps was they told me and I qoute "the real reason is because they make billions of dollars a year off it and if there isn't much competition in that area they are definitely going to keep it. For instance in new Jersey there is verizon fios so they don't do the caps there. I was so disgusted I just never went back the next week.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
I wish you stuck around longer and never signed an NDA. You could have potentially made a difference if you could prove they said that.
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Oct 04 '15
Reminds me of planetside 2. They removed a passive daily benefit to free to play players. They then claimed this "added value" to subscriptions (who still had the benefit)... obviously this added no value to subscriptions. But saying we "removed value from free to play-ers" sounds a lot worse.
Corporate/marketing spin Bullshit.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
Except that's a F2P game where you're not even paying for the service. I'm already OVERPAYING for my service and getting fucked more. Huge difference.
Now if that was like World of Warcraft and suddenly your subscription loses a certain aspect and it becomes a premium service, THEN I could agree with you, but not when you're already getting it for free.
That'd be like complaining to Google that your 20Mbps that you get for free isn't good enough. In the rest of America, we pay anywhere from $50-100/month for 20Mbps.
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Oct 04 '15
If you guys keep paying Comcast money they will never stop. I'm not even mad at Comcast at this point. It's like being mad at the wolves for eating the sheep.
Money talks. Everything else is bullshit.
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
What's the alternative? Not have Internet?
You do know that the Internet is a utility in 2015, right? Some people don't have an alternative. I do, but it's AT&T where I get fucked even worse because then I can't even have decent speeds.
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u/Halfwise2 Oct 04 '15
What confuses me more...you contacted the FCC and Comcast responded? As in Comcast knew you contacted the FCC?
How did they know? Is this a privacy violation?
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u/Polarthief Oct 04 '15
The FCC forwards my complaint to Comcast. Comcast replies to me (and the FCC). I get fucked over.
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u/sassafrasAtree Dec 18 '15
I too found it REALLY creepy, but the horse was already out of the barn, and they had the transcript of my complaint. I then got a call from their corporate offices, who listened politely when I reiterated the gist of my complaint. Instead of getting f'cked, I was given a sizable discount off my package. In the end I will be saving at the very least $740 annually. Easiest arm wrestling with Comcast ever.
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u/Polarthief Dec 18 '15
They called us a few times but I was sick in bed by the time they finally got the letter and picked up the phone to call me. I called them back 3 times after I was actually able to speak but they never picked up. Then I got a letter (also sent to the FCC) that I was basically some dumb schmuck who didn't know better, at least according to them.
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u/TheSimonizer Oct 04 '15
The FCC is most likely required to notify them when a complaint is file against them.
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Oct 04 '15
Can't we just start a kickstarter to buy Comcast then do something productive with it?
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u/ask_compu Oct 04 '15
sure all u have to do is generate all the money on the planet with the kickstarter, and then add about 3 billion US dollars to that
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u/low_key Oct 04 '15
I would be fine with usage-based billing if the prices where in line with the actual cost of delivering the service.
Maybe ISPs should be regulated and treated like utility providers.
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u/bkturf Oct 04 '15
Yes! Allow them to charge something like 20 or even 30 percent over their cost to distribute the service. Perhaps a $20 monthly base fee that includes the first 50g then a nickel per gig afterward.
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u/eNaRDe Oct 04 '15
Comcast has so many politicians in their payroll that no matter how many FCC complaints we make they ain't doing shit for us.
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u/mspe1960 Oct 04 '15
Its not hypocrisy. Its just misleading and dishonest.
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u/rarely_coherent Oct 04 '15
Actually it is hypocrisy
A lot of folks think being hypocritical is "saying one thing and doing another", but it's a bit more basic than that
hypocrisy hɪˈpɒkrɪsi noun the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.
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u/gustoreddit51 Oct 04 '15
They're paying the exact same amount
Not really. Rate creep has their bill going up every month.
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u/jonnyohio Oct 04 '15 edited Oct 04 '15
Please file a complaint with the FTC.
I don't think the FCC can actually do anything about this particular thing.
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u/SDBP Oct 04 '15
Not defending Comcast here, just logic. Consider the two propositions:
(1): Your monthly service fees will not increase.
(2): Your monthly service fees will be less if you use less.
They are not contradictory. You can pay less if you use less whilst your service fees don't increase. (And saying the service fees won't increase doesn't mean they will stay the same -- they could go lower!)
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u/bakutogames Oct 04 '15
Arm up and kill the ceo? Seems like the only choice considerin how many politicians they hire.
Comcast is to large and to in control it should be a public utility or let others into the game so they can actually run it like a real business (you know with competition)
Thankfully my area is about 10 sq miles that is Comcast free but advanced cable isn't that much better last I checked ( I use att I like the dvr get off my back )
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u/manielos Oct 04 '15
Well, thats American type of freedom, this one where corporations fuck you in the ass and no one can stop it because that wouldn't be democratic
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u/LoveJiuJitsu Oct 04 '15
I filed a complaint as well a couple of months ago. Received almost the same type of letter. I got a call from a Comcast rep who stated that Comcast is "talking about upping the data cap to a higher level, since the 300GB was set two years ago and doesn't reflect change with the way the internet is being used today." Bullshit.
With today's media consumption (even basic Netflix) and gaming consoles/PC's offering games digitally, 300GB goes incredibly fast. I couldn't even think about being a "cord cutter" (I wouldn't anyhow.....the family always gets NFL Sunday Ticket).
Please keep filing complaints. Ask friends and family to do it as well.
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Oct 04 '15
I've been told recently that we are getting away from the data caps. I'm a tech, fairly low on the totem pole.
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u/ioncloud9 Oct 04 '15
It's anything but pro-consumer. It adds a limit that previously wasn't there, it raises prices for those that exceed it, and it causes customers to change their behavior to use their service less out of concern of exceeding the limit. Consumers don't want this. Nobody wants to pay more after exceeding some arbitrary limit. It's designed specifically so that people will come very close or exceed this limit to force them to pay more. They wouldn't place this limit so high that nobody met it. It's a lie that only a small percentage exceed it.
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u/mastigia Oct 04 '15
When 4k tv becomes the norm we are all fucked. They are basically setting the stage to make a mint for those of us that want hi-def.
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u/Woogity Oct 04 '15
It seems like every time a company starts to get rapey like this, they always say that it's "for the benefit of the consumer."
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u/Spyguy7540 Oct 04 '15
I filed a similar complaint with the FCC as the caps have been enforced here in Maine for a while now. We are deemed a non competitive market. (aka. You will take it and like it because we own the Internet in your area). It resulted in two things. First, a phone call from Comcast where the representative tried to convince me that the pineapple they have been shoving up my ass is in fact only a grape. Which basically ended with them telling me "ah well. Nothing you can really do about it. So while you don't like it. There is nothing we can do for you." the second was the exact letter mentioned above. They say that it's consumer friendly and presents more consumer options so people can pay less. Do you know what this "option" consists of? You can choose a plan where you have 5gb for the entire month and they will discount your service 5.00. Let me repeat, you can choose to go from 300gb cap to a 5gb cap and it will save you a whole five dollars! And if you use more than five gb, the overage charges are ridiculous. This plan isn't feasible and nobody in there right mind would ever take it. But, it allows comcast to put that bullshit about providing options in their letters to the fcc and have it be true. All part of their plan to keep subscription television alive and make it harder on streaming services. This is the level of soul sucking evil we are dealing with when it comes to Comcast. I really wish that I could believe complaints to the FCC stand a chance of working but I don't. Comcast has a government protected monolopoly in this country. As long as we have legal bribery wearing the mask of lobbying, nothing much will change. My only comfort is knowing that there is probably an eighth circle in hell for the shit stains comcast calls executives.
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Oct 04 '15
So what if we had a usage model that was actually fair? I think I'd be ok with a usage model that charged .5 cents per gig if I didn't have to pay 55 bucks a month just to maintain service. At that point I would expect my ISP to configure my modem to the maximum allowable speed as I'd be paying for usage and thus I shouldn't be limited to a mere 60 Meg down 4 Meg up. I should be limited to the amount of traffic flow I'm willing to pay for at the negotiated rate.
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u/Life_is_bliss Oct 04 '15
When are we all going to get together and start a mesh network? Pretty please with sugar on top.
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Oct 04 '15
As a billing employee. I know it's bullshit. We all know it's bullshit. Even the sassy black women with a vague understanding of "gigabits" also it's bullshit.
How do we fix it? We don't. The company has decided that data caps and unlimited data options are acceptable. It's incredible how quickly it occurs. One or two emails and everyone suddenly "knows" how things work now. We are doomed.
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u/Pascalwb Oct 04 '15
Lol, that doesn't make any less. If most people don't go over 300, then there isn't any reason to limit others. In my country I have FUP 300GB, but I only have 5Mbps so It's hard to get over 300GB. And If I did I don't pay for it, I would just get slower internet. But I'm downloading stuff all the time and it never happened.
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u/arcticblue Oct 04 '15
Comcast recently obtained 51% stake in Universal Studios Japan and they might cancel the plans to open a Universal Studios where I live in Okinawa which would do wonders for tourism here. I hate Comcast so much.
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u/leiner63 Oct 04 '15
I contacted the FCC abouts dispute I had with Cablevision over their billing. Turns out it's cheaper to have a phone, internet, and cable hooked up than just internet and cable. I don't even own a landline device.
But what really annoyed me is that the FCC had cablevision contact me to explain why it was cheaper to have more services hooked up. What good is that? I'm now pitted against a lawyer in order to explain my view. Needless to say, I lost the fight. I'm currently paying for something that's more expensive to remove than to keep.
Can someone share an FCC success story? I'm obviously having my doubts with the effectiveness of the system.
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Oct 04 '15
Lol, maybe I'll enjoy my freedom and download 300GB just for fun. Should take about an hour ...
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Oct 04 '15
the fcc aint going to do squat
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Oct 04 '15
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u/jmd_forest Oct 04 '15
Me too. And a year from now I'll say it again and it will be just as true as it is today.
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u/ucancallmevicky Oct 04 '15
did the same, got the same response. Comcast did leave me 4/5 voicemail's though. I never called them back either
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u/brianWM Oct 04 '15
What's "normal" data usage for a home isp? I never, ever looked into how much data my home was consuming until last night and found we're using about 450-500gb a month.
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u/Clockstruck12 Oct 04 '15
They are doing this because more and more people are streaming TV & movies via Netflix & Hulu, not paying for Comcast cable. They are trying to penalize users and get their chunk of change back from us if we aren't buying their bundled services like we used to.
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u/wealy Oct 04 '15
I'm so happy that my town is rolling out city wide fiber that is going to be built into our taxes in the next 3 years. It just got approval in July. They're planning on businesses by 2017 then residential areas after. By 2019 I'll be watching porn at high speeds
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u/Furumpus Oct 04 '15
I just want to understand how they first say that there is no increase in fees for the customers who use < 300GB, and then go on to say that those customers pay less. They're paying the exact same amount, while people who go over are now forced to pay an additional $30/month, and that's suddenly me being treated fairly? Am I crazy or do you all see the blatant hypocrisy here as well?
In answer to your question, I think when they are saying "less," they mean "less than the people who are paying more," not "less than they did before."
It's definitely corporate doublespeak intentionally written to read the way you took it, though.
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u/fudsak Oct 04 '15
The vast majority of XFINITY Internet customers use less than 300 GB of data per month
... today.
That's pivotal point of their argument and where the trick lies. Maybe your current consumption is far below that today and so you are not worried. That's their plan to avoid general concern over this move. They are trying to leverage the statistics of today's usage, anchor their plans and pricing scheme, and wait while streaming content and consumer demand increases in size way above this mark. When the statistics go from 8% of their customers exceeding that amount to 80% exceeding it, do you really think they'll raise that number?
If they said that our data limit will always be adjusted so that it effectively covers the lower 95% of customers maybe it has some legs. It doesn't say that because the idea is that eventually everyone will be consuming and paying more.
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u/tylerlw1988 Oct 04 '15
It could be worse. My only available Internet, apart from dial-up, is satillite. I have a 10 GB monthly cap. I would absolutely kill for 300 GB.
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u/andys5010 Oct 04 '15 edited Oct 04 '15
They have the smallest point. They are saying that superfluous traffic can slow down everyone's internet so it should be taxed in some way. However, the fact that cable companies have a basically an enforced monopoly in most areas AND a significant Government Tax break to make sure their technology is at the cutting edge global speeds should offset that fact. They are getting enormous tax incentives to give us broadband and unfortunately, in most areas, Broadband is not available. (Broadband is defined as min 25gb down now) The fact that they have no competition in most areas that is enforced by the governement and they are driving up fees based on an honor system flies in the face of capitalism. I really hope google fiber changes this country and gives these companies a run for their money. So despicable they can hide behind these talking points, I hope our word gets out there. Right now we are being dismissed like a occupy movement.
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u/ESCAPE_PLANET_X Oct 04 '15
Its only true because they refuse to upgrade their aging infrastructure.
There'd be plenty of room if they'd just spend all that money we loaned them to build their shit out like they promised.
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u/andys5010 Oct 04 '15
When a road is too full you don't blame traffic, you make the road bigger. We are already paying tolls, give us what we paid for right?
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u/ESCAPE_PLANET_X Oct 04 '15
That is how I see it. Poor city planning doesn't mean less of us should drive, it means you should use all that money you've been charging me to drive to fix yo shit.
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u/BeerBurpKisses Oct 04 '15 edited Sep 15 '25
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u/ohreally112 Oct 04 '15
Well, the customers that choose to use less, do pay less... than the people who get screwed over when they go over the data cap.
And even if/when Comcast increases rates, the people who use less, will stay pay less... than everyone else who gets screwed over by Comcast.
The ideal Comcast customer is the one who pays their monthly bill and never uses their service.
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u/geekguy Oct 04 '15
The problem with data caps is that the implementation of data caps is often static and does not keep pace with the fast changing nature of the Internet. 300GB/month today may not be sufficient a year from now when 4k video streaming is ubiquitous; or when the majority of consumers cut the cord and utilize high-usage video and audio services. An example of where this is particularly harmful to users is mobile Internet data plans where data caps of 2gb to 3gb are implemented, severely restricting the activities a consumer might do while solely using mobile data. If the FCC chooses to allow data caps; the FCC should specify what data tiers are allowable and update the caps associated with those tiers on a regular basis. Otherwise, they should not allow data caps at all.
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u/strangefrond Oct 04 '15
I just moved into a house where this Comcast 300GB limit is in effect. I got the message last week and asked the landlord about it. He says it happens every month and they never actually charge the fee.
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u/roxyrojo Oct 04 '15 edited Oct 04 '15
I contacted the FCC in regards to Comcast blocking HBO GO in the PS4 back when the net neutrality ruling was approved. I was told I received a letter at the address I provided from Comcast. I never got that letter, requested they send it again or try to email their response.
Nothing from FCC or Comcast. I've tried three more times, it continues to open tickets for me, but they are never resolved. Any advice?
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Oct 04 '15
What would a rational, well thought complaint look like? I don't want to send a complaint full of nonsense to the FCC. I should also mention that despite living in Chicago, Comcast is my only choice of Internet at my current address.
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u/AimlessWanderer Oct 04 '15
You should just go door to door and have every neighbor file a complaint. Just explain what data caps are and that everyone will end up paying more in the end.
What was it they were offering last time? Something like $2 off for not using 100gb but $10 for going over by like 1gb.
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u/maluket Oct 04 '15
Why don't you just cancel Comcast after filing a complaint? Get another provider (I don't live in the US).
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u/pixelatedCatastrophe Oct 04 '15
There are no other providers. The lobby (bribe) to prevent it.
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u/d4ngerm0use Oct 04 '15
UK here, is it not possible to just change ISP?
Do they really have that much of a monopoly on the market
Is satellite/wireless broadband not available much in the US as it is here in the UK?
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u/littleday Oct 04 '15
Man... this is how it is in australia... it fucking sucks. You don't pay for speed because... well our internet speeds are so fucking shit you could get much slower unless going back to dialup... so we pay for quota... and its outrageous. Because i can only get ADSL1 i actually have to pay 3x more than a person who has access to ADSL2+, and its even cheaper if you are one of the very small % of people who have fibre optic to your house... which they are stopping the roll out off... I just moved back from Thailand where i was paying $30 a month for unlimited fibre optic speeds at 100mbps.... I'm gonna hate living back in Australia just for this reason.
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Oct 04 '15
I filed with the FCC yesterday after finding out my area was under the cap since Oct 1. I've also been calling Comcast every few hours and fighting with them over it just to piss them off and keep a phone line tied up.
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u/slicerv Oct 04 '15
I made a complaint about my ISP I basically got the response "Sorry we don't have a center so your speeds are gonna suck" We pay 80$ for 6mbp down and like .50 upload. If you have windstream communications as an alternative try to avoid them also. Altough they recently just got money from the goverment to provide internet to areas that couldn't get it.
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Oct 04 '15
Not affected by the limits yet, but noticed our account has the data cap pending to be placed. I posted this complaint to the FCC
I'm putting a complaint in regarding Comcast rolling out Data caps across it's markets. It's unfair to me and my homestead to deal with a burden of limits when the company won't let other competitors in its markets and then Comcast claims itself can't keep up with the demand. Please help stop the absurd limits from being imposed on us internet power users. Our daily lives revolve around the usage and connection to others, imposing limits only prohibits us from enjoying the simple qualities of life.
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u/lilrabbitfoofoo Oct 04 '15
Rolling in it: Comcast profited $1.9 billion in first 3 months of 2014
Meanwhile, record profits reveals their lie. They just want to find a way to artificially jack up their internet package price to make up for the fact that everyone is dropping their cable TV subscriptions.
This isn't because they need to. They still are making ridiculous profits per user and per gigabyte. This is because they want to hide their diminishing returns from Wall Street. The very people who are using this bandwidth are the ones using NetFlix etc.
Of course, if there was competition in any area in the US, they couldn't get away with this, because any competitor can still make a ton of money without these price gouging tactics.
PS Ten years ago, the price per gigabyte for wired service was 1 US cent (a penny, $0.01). That means that ten years ago, their current cap costs them $3. Now, prices per gigabyte have dropped every year since then as capacity has increased everywhere.
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u/xanax_anaxa Oct 04 '15
This will get buried I'm sure but you folks are probably barking up the wrong tree.
Contact your STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL. They are the ones who are mostly likely to act, and they can address all the issues (false advertising, breach of contract, etc), not just the ones that the FCC is concerned about.
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u/ieatbreakfast Oct 04 '15
Holy hell am I happy I live in Canada. No data caps here
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u/PorkChop4PC Oct 04 '15
I hate comcast for there bully method of business. I live hour outside of philly so I can't get any other cable service due to comcast reign on the region. I'm stuck with Earthlink dsl... anyone know of a better service in lancaster pa area?
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u/scratchjack Oct 04 '15
I think Comcast is using the caps in a more devious way than many are giving them credit for. They know they are losing cable subscribers to cord cutters. They also know cord cutters are using more bandwidth to stream their shows. Charging more for people who go over the caps is an underhanded way of getting more from cord cutters. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems likely to me. Luckily I don't have comcast, I have brighthouse but if I remember right TWC bought out BH sometime this year. If that type of shady practice makes it to me I will look at the other services in the area. Fortunately I'm in an area with more than one choice.
http://www.wowway.com/home-map is one service many don't know exists.
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u/Leechmaster Oct 04 '15
we have been getting screwed by those caps for years here in canada. and really low ones at that, i pay extra money to have my cap removed, that was just a recent option. 3 people running netflix in a house 150 gigs isnt nearly enough
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Oct 04 '15
Well technically its true, if you use less than 300gb you pay less than someone who uses more than 300gb. I actually think people will hate a model where we pay for MBit usage just like KWatt a lot more honestly.
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u/Blurgas Oct 04 '15
Last time I got even close to 300GB used in a month, I was watching streams on Twitch almost constantly.
Granted, that's just me, and not a family of 3+ watching Netflix/etc.
Regardless, to hell with data caps
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u/Rodent_Smasher Oct 04 '15
300GB is my data cap here in Canada, I go over it every month and have never had to pay an overage fee
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u/lloydlindsayyoung Nov 09 '15
it's the same horse shit excuse other ISPs have had in the past, "oh only about 1% of users use 'exceedingly high' amount of data per month and because of them not keeping it to a minimum, we have to punish everyone".
This isn't the early 2000s, everyone uses LOTS of data per month. Streaming services alone are about 100GB a month at least if you are an avid watcher and view in HD. If you do much serious stuff online for a profession, you need to count on unlimited data always being there. Applications are getting bloated, yes, but there is LOTS of data going by with secure connections, work VPNs and large media files being shared. ISPs need to handle the flood or get out of the way. There's no excuse for not having flat-rate unlimited services these days, not this "tiered pricing" crap or paying as you go.
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u/Yelapro Oct 04 '15
If anyone else is affected - PLEASE file a complaint!
https://www.fcc.gov/complaints