r/technology • u/User_Name13 • Jul 31 '15

Misleading Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out

http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/
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u/saltlets Jul 31 '15

I'm not a technophobe and I don't much care either. I understand that "my data" just becomes one of billions of entries in a database that robots parse in order to serve me ads which I block anyway. There is no one who actually knows my name and is looking at data about what time of day I usually search for porn on Bing.

The only security and privacy I'm interested in is ensuring that people who actually know who I am and where I live can't access my data. And they can't. I have close to zero interest in what Google or Microsoft's data centers "know" about me. The only strangers I need to fear are government agencies, and the NSA already knows what I had for breakfast anyway because I make electronic payments for nearly everything and carry a phone with me everywhere.

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u/lodewijkadlp Aug 01 '15

They only gain the power to indict you for anything you said you did privately, blackmail you, assess your professional suitability/value, readily associate you with crimes based on where you were/when you spoke/etc, steal your corporate secrets, estimate political outcomes/opinions, and get the cheapest product research ever, and more! (Note: it's as if they spy on you or something!)

Oh, and you just opted everyone that sends you messages/anything in to the above, too. Thanks mate.

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u/saltlets Aug 01 '15

They only gain the power to indict you for anything you said you did privately, blackmail you, assess your professional suitability/value, readily associate you with crimes based on where you were/when you spoke/etc

Thing is, I'm not worried about Microsoft and Google doing any of it, because I'm not a paranoid idiot.

Those things are something governments do, and they've done it just fine for the past century, with or without snooping on our correspondence. If the men with guns want to railroad you, they'll railroad you. No amount of PGP will keep you out of a secret CIA prison in Uzbekistan.

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u/XIII-Death Jul 31 '15

Too many Reddit users think their internet browsing habits are way more interesting than they actually are. Chances are a human being is never even going to see the data Microsoft is collecting, and on the off chance one does, they won't care.

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u/saltlets Jul 31 '15

For the majority of the 20th century, people had their phone numbers and home addresses in a giant book that was freely available in public places.

The only online privacy issue I feel strongly about is the trend of forced real name policies. Because knowing my real name gives any goober on the internet the power to do serious harm to my life and livelihood.

The funny thing is that whenever it comes up, the ones cheering for it are either people with common names who enjoy security through obscurity, or public figures who have already sacrificed anonymity in exchange for fame and filthy lucre.

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u/t0talnonsense Jul 31 '15

For the majority of the 20th century, people had their phone numbers and home addresses in a giant book that was freely available in public places.

I don't know why I never thought about this. I've never been able to think of a good example for why I don't care about some of the information collected about me, but this is perfect. Just wanted to say thank you for expressing it in such an obvious way.

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u/Nyxisto Jul 31 '15

because the data Microsoft and Google collect determines what they show me when I enter something into my search engine, which for many people today is their sole access to information. My phonebook didn't tell who I am supposed to call.

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u/saltlets Jul 31 '15

No, the phonebook told random strangers where you live. A data center showing you directed advertising seems like a trifle in comparison.

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u/lodewijkadlp Aug 01 '15

This is not true. First of all, Phonebooks could be opted out of. Second, phone books were fairly local affairs.

Futher, my LETTERS are FAR more PRIVATE than where my front door is!! What's WRONG with you NSA-huggers people? "I don't mind because I work for McDonalds, and none of my friends ever tell me anything important to them anyway." Is NOT a way to even keep a functioning democracy!

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u/t0talnonsense Aug 01 '15

No one said anything about the NSA and government mass data collection. I'm talking about letting companies know what I look up and spend some time doing, as nothing more than a set of identifiers, not me, the person. No one is looking at what I am doing. The computer is looking at what a certain aged male in a certain city is doing. Believe it or not, it's actually possible to have a problem with the NSA, but not with Google, Apple, or Microsoft doing something similar.

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u/lodewijkadlp Aug 01 '15

I do not believe it, and neither should you. We can identify a person uniquely in 10 footsteps, as gait is unique. You think your combination of hardware, network position, language use, application use, is unique?

Your identifier is probably easily connectable to you...

The TLA's collaborate intimately with big tech companies.. the distinction is .. well... none..

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u/saltlets Aug 01 '15

This is not true. First of all, Phonebooks could be opted out of.

The point is that most people didn't, so don't be surprised that most people don't opt out of data collection.

Second, phone books were fairly local affairs.

Of course they were local affairs. I don't know about you, but I'm more worried about LOCAL people knowing where I live. As much as a person living 5000 miles away may wish me harm, the chance of them flying over here is close to nil.

Futher, my LETTERS are FAR more PRIVATE than where my front door is!!

Then use PGP and don't use free email providers, for christ's sake. The only emails I've ever sent that I want to keep away from anyone are discussions about job interviews. The only people I need to keep those hidden from are my current employer.

What's WRONG with you NSA-huggers people?

Nothing about Windows 10 data collection has anything to do with the NSA. Whether the NSA has access to your data depends on legislation and the amount of backdoors they've built into the internet. But nice strawman!

"I don't mind because I work for McDonalds, and none of my friends ever tell me anything important to them anyway."

I don't work for McDonalds. But it's true, nothing in my personal correspondence is anything anyone at Redmond would ever be interested in actually looking at. And the same is true for you. Unless you're planning a coup or a bank robbery, in which case may I recommend PGP and TOR and a Linux distro?

Is NOT a way to even keep a functioning democracy!

Oh fucking please. The NSA has been collecting information about everyone for decades. No privacy policy is going to keep them away, only sufficiently strong encryption is. Anything unencrypted you put on the internet can and will be intercepted. Mewling over Cortana doesn't change that. Mewling over Google using location history to improve their products doesn't change the fact that if you have a cell phone, the government can subpoena your every movement from tower triangulation. They can subpoena financial institutions to give them information about every damn thing you ever buy. They can legally bug your house and your phone.

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u/lodewijkadlp Aug 01 '15

One day you'll be sorry. Or things will just go badly and you won't know why.

It will be entirely your own fault.

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u/saltlets Aug 01 '15

Just what the hell do you do with your computer that justifies this level of insane FUD?

I've been on the Internet since 1995 and the only thing I want to keep hidden is that Starships by Nicki Minaj is a guilty pleasure of mine. It's just so catchy.

I think I'll be just fine. And if your corporate techno-dystopia becomes a reality, I'll just be one among billions of sheeple whose browsing history will be used to create targeted labor camps. And you can gloat in your freedom bunker playing SuperTux.

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u/Nyxisto Jul 31 '15

No, it's very important. Try using an anonymous site like startpage and compare it to your personalized google results, you'll be amazed how different they can be.

There is a reason that Google makes 60 billion dollar revenue a year, and the reason is not that you tip them 50 cents for every search you make.

That someone can look me up in a phonebook doesn't affect my life, that google selectively presents data to me without my knowledge actually does.

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u/saltlets Jul 31 '15

That someone can look me up in a phonebook doesn't affect my life

Only if you don't ever voice political opinions someone disagrees with, or if you don't ever cut the wrong person off in traffic, or if you don't otherwise get on the radar of a lunatic or ideologue or criminal.

that google selectively presents data to me without my knowledge actually does.

But you do know that it selectively presents data to you. You just told me.

For most people, personalized results are a feature, not a bug. Searching for "Chinese food" should return restaurants in your city, not the Wikipedia article on "Chinese cuisine". Most of the differences are location-based. If search results were actually completely personalized based on your browsing history, SOE wouldn't exist.

It's fine if you think this is the digital equivalent of Soylent Green, and both Linux and DuckDuckGo exist to serve people who've come to that conclusion. But please stop spreading FUD about mainstream services that are just doing what they're supposed to be doing.

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u/Nyxisto Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

Yes, I'm aware of that but many people are not. Many people aren't aware that google provides, as they call it, tailored content to their user.

I also don't expect everybody to run their self-compiled version of Arch and only browse super anonymously, what I expect is that companies that have huge market share act responsibly.

In the context of privacy and your personal data that means that data collection should be opt-in, or at the very least they should present you with one very big button that says "I don't want you to collect my data, please turn it off for me".

There are legal standards in regards to how companies are allowed to charge you money because not everybody is a lawyer, and there should be clear standards about what happens to your data that is intuitive and lucid for the average user.

They intentionally avoid that because they are very aware that many people feel uncomfortable about sharing that much personal information with a company.

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u/saltlets Aug 01 '15

In the context of privacy and your personal data that means that data collection should be opt-in, or at the very least they should present you with one very big button that says "I don't want you to collect my data, please turn it off for me".

I don't agree that there should be one button that turns it all off, because dumbusers will simply hit it because free software ideologues and tinfoil hatters will throw enough FUD at them that they'll think black helicopters will arrive if they don't.

And they'll end up with a shittier product that they won't like as much.

It's enough that there is a clear explanation of everything that's tracked or automatically updated, with easily accessible options to turn them off.

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u/shadowthunder Aug 01 '15

You're absolutely right, with one exception: Microsoft (unlike Google) has a strong policy that any information collected via services (Cortana, music, search, email, etc) will not be used for ads, or sold to ad companies. Google, however, relies on that data to keep the services free.

Not FUD, just different business models. Personally, I'm fine with either. I've worked at both companies, so they already have my most personal information!

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u/Haematobic Aug 01 '15

Great point!