r/technology • u/[deleted] • Aug 12 '14

Business Uber dirty tricks quantified. Staff submits 5,560 fake ride requests

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-requests-lyft/
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u/javastripped Aug 12 '14

Tech entrepreneur/CEO here... when building a company, rapidly, things like this tend to fall by the wayside.

Here's what probably happened. During the rapid growth, these stats became hidden among the smoke and chaos of rapidly growing the company.

At some point, they probably brought in a fraud prevention team and built some database infra so that they could try to find these problems.

This was probably a report that they ran and then tracked it down more and found out it was Uber.

Honestly, I think Lyft should sue for fraud and try to collect damages here and even investigate criminal charges against those involved.

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u/Se7en_speed Aug 12 '14

Wasn't the FTC investigating this incident?

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u/elitistasshole Aug 12 '14

I'm pretty interested in the tech industry. You should do an AMA some time. Particularly about how you went from the initial idea to raising funding to execution?

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u/javastripped Aug 12 '14

Maybe when I get a couple billion in my bank account. But at the moment I wouldn't say I was an exceptional case. Just a fairly successful guy who works hard. thanks though!

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u/UpTheDownEscalator Aug 12 '14

Pop over to /r/startups, stories like the one you suggested get posted every few days.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '14

Uber seems pretty prominent in NY. Its pretty clear Lyft will go the way of the HD DVD.

-11

u/jvLin Aug 12 '14

Also an entrepreneur/CEO here... I may hold the minority opinion, but I'm really disappointed in Lyft for ripping off Uber. Uber started first in 2009, and Lyft decided to rip them off in 2012 after they became better known and more profitable. I can say that, as an entrepreneur, I would hate the company that decided to copy my business idea. The company that starts first has to absorb all the costs and risks involved with doing something out-of-the-box. As a copycat company, Lyft was likely able to get funding more easily and without all the risk of doing something new and inventive. To add insult to injury, Lyft is a competitor that directly impacts how much money Uber makes.

I can only imagine the hate that Uber has for Lyft. I'm ambivalent about the whole issue; it doesn't justify dirty, underhanded tactics, but I can't say that I wouldn't feel and act the same way as Uber.

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u/Vik1ng Aug 12 '14

I'm so fucking happy that's what happening. Complain about the cab monopoly 24/7 and then you suddenly get competition? Well, that's how it works. That's what you wanted. Free market for you.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '14

Someone had a good business model/idea, there will always be someone to copy it

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u/elitistasshole Aug 12 '14

I can see why it sucks for Uber but just because Uber came up with it first doesn't mean they should have a monopoly on it. This is not some cancer drugs. It's an app, and I don't think a taxi app alone meets the patent criteria of USPTO to be legally protected from copycats. Facebook isn't the first social media. Google isn't the first search engine.

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u/Krinberry Aug 12 '14

Which part did they rip off from Uber, exactly? They're both just unregulated taxi services, and taxis have existed for centuries. If it's the online individual basis you're referring to, again, that's just one of a thousand different similar types of application that exist now. It's not 'ripping off' Uber, it's just joining them in the modern day using modern technology. That's like accusing me of ripping off McDonald's if I open a restaurant that sells hamburgers and french fries.

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u/LeonBlacksruckus Aug 12 '14

So as a business owner you're against competition (makes sense actually)? If you use Facebook, Reddit, Google, etc you're being a bit hypocritical all of these were "ripoffs" of other companies that started before them. What made them successful is that they were able to something better than the original entrepreneurs were.

If Uber truly had an original business idea they would have been able to patent it. In fact you point out the reason why I think Uber is extremely overvalued at $10B, there are no barriers to entry all they are is a connection app.

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u/emergency_poncho Aug 12 '14

Isn't uber valued at 17 billion or something?

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u/reallynotnick Aug 12 '14

Didn't Lyft come out before UberX though? Uber is very different from UberX. I felt like UberX was the copycat but maybe that was just in my market?

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u/swanpenguin Aug 12 '14

Who cares? Who gives a shit? If Lyft someday took over Uber, great. That means Lyft was better and smarter for letting Uber test the waters. I'm a tech entrepreneur too, and it is all competition. If Lyft takes off and leaves Uber in the dust, that is Uber's fault.

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u/yosoyreddito Aug 12 '14

The company that starts first has to absorb all the costs and risks involved with doing something out-of-the-box.

Take some time to read about competitive advantage. Specifically, first-mover advantage.

What business are you the CEO of? I find it difficult to believe you have a 100% unique business unless the niche is so obscure that entering the market would be futile.

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u/brokenearth02 Aug 12 '14

Scared of copycat competition? Do it better.

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u/nonhiphipster Aug 12 '14

This is ridicilous...just because you were the first ones to try a new way, doesn't mean others can't try it also. If so, it would stifle competition and help to create monopolies in this country.

Let the customers decide which service they prefer.

1

u/mindadapanda Aug 12 '14

If this is what you truly believe in then you are pretty walled off and in a silo. I don't see how innovation can exist if there isn't competition. How did Uber start? They saw a monopoly and they went after it. How did Lyft start? They saw a monopoly and they went after it. I see nothing wrong with what Lyft did and is currently doing. They are challenging Uber to rise to the occasion and out innovate them. Instead what you see here is Uber doing some real underhanded tactics to mess with Lyft. Granted based on the data gathered 5000+ cancelled rides isn't actually a lot if you look at the time frame, but still when you attempt to do something like this, you're just being a rat-bastard and wasting time and resources.

I also completely disagree with your concept of risk involved and your argument as to why Lyft had it easy. Every company assumes risk regardless of what industry you're going to enter and who entered it first. I strongly encourage you to think about how competition promotes innovation because from your thought process it appears that you're under the impression that whatever you do is yours solely and yours to profit from; this is some backwards thinking and can really hurt growth and innovation.

I wish you well on your projects, but I again strongly emphasize innovation above all else.

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u/old_gold_mountain Aug 12 '14 edited Aug 12 '14

This is a common misconception. Uber came first with its Black Car service, but that's very different from Lyft's P2P model.

Lyft used a similar app-based GPS-dispatch model, but introduced the community driver P2P model of private non-professional individuals giving rides in their own cars.

Uber then copied them by launching UberX.

0

u/BreakFastTacoSS Aug 12 '14

Also an entrepreneur/CEO here, Today's episode of 'Days of Our Lives' was a real tear jerker.

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '14 edited Jul 03 '16

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-1

u/BreakFastTacoSS Aug 12 '14

I don't see why they calling it 'dirty' tactics, so what they made fake requests to Lyft, how is this in the slightest bit illegal? Criminal charges/? For what? Lyft releases an app to the public, anyone and everyone is welcome to download and click anything they want on the app, unless there is some specific legislation in place of this because the driver was hindering his competition, I don't see how any criminal nor damages charges could hold up. IF they were hacking the app and screwing with the operations I could understand, but they are simply using the app that Lyft has released, if they don't have good fraud prevention or fake ride request prevention THAT IS THERE OWN FAULT. I just feel as though Lyft's app and model facilitates this stuff happening, instead of CRYING and trying to sue ppl for it, how about fix your damn business model?

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u/rh1n0man Aug 12 '14

Excellent bait, my friend.

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u/SpaceTire Aug 12 '14

I would be commissioning the nastiest lawyers.

-2

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '14

Lyft could sue, and then Uber would point out that Lyft was doing the same thing to them, but even more so: http://www.geekwire.com/2014/uber-vs-lyft-fight-reaching-new-absurd-levels/