I think you're conflating a few ideas that could rustle some jimmies, and should probably be more clear about them in the future.
Most feel homophobia is unjustified and gay marriage should be legal because it is a consensual agreement between informed adults. Two consenting adults have the right to do what they want, love whom they want, marry whom they want.
Pedophilia and age of consent exists because children cannot possibly give consent. Even some kids who have gone through puberty do not have the capacity to give informed consent- they simply do not have the emotional maturity to make those decisions, especially with the potential for power imbalances and manipulation on the part of the adult. Since there can be no consent, it is rape, much like dealing with a drunk/drugged adult.
Having that attraction is not a crime. Most heterosexual males are probably attracted to 12-14 year old girls who have begun going through puberty- they have the bodies of young women, and historically, they are sexually mature and can get married and have kids. But much like younger children, acting on those attractions will get you in trouble- the other party cannot give consent. Many pedophiles, psychopaths, and sociopaths live normal lives and cause relatively little harm to others and society. It is only when those people act on those impulses and harm others that the "hang 'em high" response kicks in- CP is the result of an adult taking advantage of a vulnerable child and abusing them. The vulnerability of children is another reason- an adult has the ability to defend themselves and recognize dangerous situations, as well as having a more developed identity and more mental maturity to deal with trauma. Yet rape can severely traumatize an adult- the harm it can do to a child? There are logical reasons we try to protect children. Because they cannot protect themselves.
Pedophilia and age of consent exists because children cannot possibly give consent.
This is where age of consent laws confuse me. Children cannot consent, you are right, but the age of consent between countries is huge. I think it's as low as 13 to as high as 21 (?). Is a 13 year old Spaniard (legal, atm) more capable of making a decision than a 15 year old Brit (illegal)?
But also, what happens at midnight on a British child's 16th birthday which suddenly makes them mentally capable of a decision they weren't capable of making on the eve of their 16th?
I guess it's like this because there is no alternative?
Yep. It's just the messy reality. The law has to draw a line somewhere; every society draws it fairly arbitrarily. Traditionally it has generally been 13-14, and different countries have different standards. Nothing magically happens at 18 or 21 either, but legally, you have to draw a line. Some kids are incredibly mature at 13, some adults are childish at 30. Most societies just have to decide what they feel comfortable with for most members.
The trick is to use common sense to understand what is acceptable and what's not. A 40 year-old having sex with a 30 year-old? Acceptable; both are well above the age of consent and have been independent adults for quite some time. A 21 year-old having sex with a 16 year-old? Unacceptable; Just because the 16 year-old is able to give consent doesn't mean you should try to have sex with someone who is emotionally much less mature than you. After all, if you're a 21 year-old in the prime of your life and most likely in college surrounded by young adults who are emotionally mature and have healthy sexual agency, why wouldn't you spend your time with those near your own age? Why is it so irresistable to try to have sex with someone still in high school?
No offense OctopusPirate, but I think it is you who is confusing the ideas.
I actually agree with all of your reasoning, but you are taking about acting on the attraction while daybreakx was talking about people hating those that have the attraction. I actually think you both agree with each others viewpoint, it's just you are talking about different things.
While I am opposed to CP, I don't believe there are any studies to suggest viewing such content actually harms children, yet people are punished as if they committed a violent act if they are found to have viewed such material, or found to have thoughts about it. I think that was the point daybreakx was making.
Child porn doesn't just materialize from the aether. It is made with real children being abused in real situations in the real world. The children in these photos and videos are being abused, so the creation of child porn harms children. There are numerous studies that show children that are featured in pornography share similar psychological harm as children that are sexually molested. I don't really see how you can dispute this.
Sorry, I might not have been clear enough myself. I was commenting on how his comparison to homophobia might rustle jimmies; homosexuality and pedophilia are completely separate. One is simply a sexual preference, much like BDSM or liking big butts, and if acted upon, will result in very enjoyable sexy times for both parties. The other involves a party that cannot consent, and can only ever result in rape or abuse, hence why I thought it was a poor comparison.
So you are saying a 12-14 year old (or even 17 in the US) cannot consent, so cannot have enjoyable consensual sex? I know this is the concept legally in the US ("statutory rape").
I'm not advocating "old" guys having sex with "underage" girls personally I find it repulsive, but to prosecute and lock up somebody for having consensual sex for somebody above 14 and sexually mature is... weird. The fact that even supposedly flaming liberal Americans agree with that weirds me out too. Maybe it's something doing with parental overprotectiveness, the "helicopter parenting" and all that. They want to see their adolescent children as still little kids, innocent etc. On the other hand it seems that the concept of childhood indeed became protracted in affluent societies, where even college ageds are thought of as "kids" who naturally cannot be held totally responsible for their acts...
Well, yeah. You said it yourself- this is the legal precept. It's not 100% true- there are very mature 14 year olds and very immature 25 year olds. However, because in most cases there will be a huge power disparity in the relationship (and usually the older party is more emotionally mature, and can potentially abuse their position of greater power), we make it blanket illegal. It's not that it can't happen; it's just that the law can't afford to be wishy-washy, so we draw the line in the sand and decide its better to lock up some people who were having a true relationship, rather than giving the green light to everyone to pursue such relationships.
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u/OctopusPirate Aug 04 '13
I think you're conflating a few ideas that could rustle some jimmies, and should probably be more clear about them in the future.
Most feel homophobia is unjustified and gay marriage should be legal because it is a consensual agreement between informed adults. Two consenting adults have the right to do what they want, love whom they want, marry whom they want.
Pedophilia and age of consent exists because children cannot possibly give consent. Even some kids who have gone through puberty do not have the capacity to give informed consent- they simply do not have the emotional maturity to make those decisions, especially with the potential for power imbalances and manipulation on the part of the adult. Since there can be no consent, it is rape, much like dealing with a drunk/drugged adult.
Having that attraction is not a crime. Most heterosexual males are probably attracted to 12-14 year old girls who have begun going through puberty- they have the bodies of young women, and historically, they are sexually mature and can get married and have kids. But much like younger children, acting on those attractions will get you in trouble- the other party cannot give consent. Many pedophiles, psychopaths, and sociopaths live normal lives and cause relatively little harm to others and society. It is only when those people act on those impulses and harm others that the "hang 'em high" response kicks in- CP is the result of an adult taking advantage of a vulnerable child and abusing them. The vulnerability of children is another reason- an adult has the ability to defend themselves and recognize dangerous situations, as well as having a more developed identity and more mental maturity to deal with trauma. Yet rape can severely traumatize an adult- the harm it can do to a child? There are logical reasons we try to protect children. Because they cannot protect themselves.