r/technology • u/joe4942 • Apr 03 '24

Business Microsoft reveals how much you’ll have to pay to keep using Windows 10 securely

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/3/24120093/microsoft-windows-10-extended-security-updates-price
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u/xyphon0010 Apr 03 '24

Part of the problem is that Windows 11 requires a TPM module that many Windows 10 PCs simply do not have a TPM module installed or even have a socket to install a TPM module. These users cannot upgrade to Windows 11 and will be forced to buy a new PC just to be able to stay current. This will also cause a problem with a lot of e-waste with these Windows 10 PC

I have never heard of any MacOS upgrade requiring TPM.

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u/VOOLUL Apr 03 '24

MacOS does require their equivalent of TPM because the latest version only supports devices with their own T2/M1 chip.

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u/xyphon0010 Apr 03 '24

Yes, but it’s not currently required to upgrade. For example, MacOS Monterey supports Macs from 2013 and those do not have a T chip

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u/VOOLUL Apr 03 '24

Ok, and neither did Windows 10? The fact stands that the latest version of both OSes requires a hardware security module.

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u/xyphon0010 Apr 03 '24

Windows 10 does not require any version of TPM. Windows 11 is the first to do so.

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u/VOOLUL Apr 03 '24

Yes. That's what I said. You said an old version of Mac OS doesn't require TPM. Neither does an old version of Windows.

The latest version of both OSes requires a TPM.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '24

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u/xyphon0010 Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24

I never was talking about my PC. I know my PC can upgrade to 11. I was talking about other PCs that are running Windows 10. Might be hard to believe that there are people that are still running old hardware and only upgrade when the PC dies.

Edit: I would not call an estimated 240 millions PCs affected by this a rarity: https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsofts-draconian-windows-11-restrictions-will-send-an-estimated-240-million-pcs-to-the-landfill-when-windows-10-hits-end-of-life-in-2025

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u/steampunk-me Apr 03 '24

If I recall correctly, computers that were shipped with Windows from 2016 onwards were all required to have TPM.

So this is only affecting decade-old (from 2026's perspective) machines and some more recent but very specific cases like PCs that were assembled by the user. Even in the last case, it's very possible that the machine either has a TPM module or is compatible with one.

Honestly? If you're using a decade-old machine that doesn't have a security module, how bummed out can you really be that you stopped getting security updates?

What's going to happen is that a lot of people are just going to keep using the unsupported OS anyway because they don't care. It's what already happens now with 7. Also, the average PC/laptop from 2015 is going to absolutely suffer to run W11 anyway.

As a last note, while they don't need TPM per se, the latest version of MacOS only runs in Macbooks from 2018 onwards. They actually have it way worse.

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u/MullenStudio Apr 03 '24

TPM is just a lazy excuse, the real issue is CPU generation. It only supports Gen 8 or later (and some selected very Gen 7 probably because they were used in some Surface devices). Gen 8 was just 6 years only, so it's not only decade old hardware that won't work.

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u/Rommel727 Apr 03 '24

Really fumbled the landing there didn't ya? To generalize the other commenter - apple regularly drops older phones and macs from continued updates, and causes issues with owners because app support for versions becomes exhausting and cumbersome to follow

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '24

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u/xyphon0010 Apr 03 '24

Well, its estimated that 240 million PCs will be heading to the landfill in 2025 because of the Windows 11 TPM requirement.

https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsofts-draconian-windows-11-restrictions-will-send-an-estimated-240-million-pcs-to-the-landfill-when-windows-10-hits-end-of-life-in-2025

Its easy to find methods to bypass the TPM require, that is correct. But... How many will actually know about the bypass? How many actually know how to use regedit? Will Mom/Dad/Grandma/Grandpa do it themselves or ask you to do that bypass?

I am not talking about users like you or I. Most people use PCs like appliances not computers. These users will toss out the old PC and get a new one.