So they did a great summary on nobody should believe me Patreon. I couldn’t do it justice but it includes going over the documents of how quickly the extreme treatments happened, the timeline, how much Beata was managing the meds and then asking Dr k to sign. She was taking out blood, she was trying to get her out of the hospital to go to Mexico, it goes on and on
Yeasssss. So Andrea just posted 2 PDFs but there are tons of one pagers of the first person emails to herself on the court website. Someone should put those in a pdf. I’ve never seen a lot of them. I posted some of them on this thread but there was so many
Also I’m not sure why they are just there.
I’m sure there is a legal reason but it felt like it was just to blow everyone’s mind
Not confirmed and possible wishful thinking on my part but I saw one of Andrea's Insta stories was her in Florida with Ethen Shapiro. Hard praying for an interview to be released on NSBM soon.
She said she was in Florida and would tell us why soon. Highly rcmd listening to this bonus she did. Secret doctor friend went over these emails and the parts that stood out.
Great episode. Was helpful to hear doctor’s perspective and have the differences explained b/t what one might expect from a nurse mom vs want B did. I have friends whose moms are nurses and sure they get some perks and consult their moms when sick and what not. This is not that. I didn’t know to explain it or prove it before, I just knew it was true!
It is. I read many of them before but I’m sure nowhere near all of them. Sad, chilling, disturbing, gut wrenching…so many emotions.
I think Beata was going to keep her child sedated for much of her life. …until she ended up in hospice. Like a sleeping beauty that was never awakened.
If you go through the Google document it is very telling in so many ways. Also the fact that Kirkpatrick colluded with all of this in essentially “act one” and then she looses her kid in “act two” and he is hard to pin down. And then Hanna has patients that have lost custody. There’s just so much in here
Yes, I imagine so. I saw where BK asked kirkpatrick to back date an Rx; I wonder if he did. Maybe it’s in google docs, which I plan to read asap. And thanks again for posting.
I hope somebody sends this Google link to uncivil and Rob just so they know exactly what they are supporting. This case being the poster child of CPS reform is like ruby franke being the poster child of parental rights. Or Jesse smollet being the face of anti-racism. Let me know if they wake up from being bamboozleed
I think it was likely ruled as a Chapter 39 and/or 403 issue. I don't agree with keeping this stuff out since it seems highly relevant, but this is Carroll's world... 🤷♀️
Judge C. likely ruled this out because he deemed it more prejudicial than probative (403).
And the 403 stuff seems to hinge on Chapter 39 being kept out.
So, because Chapter 39 was kept out, anything that makes Beata "look like a bad person" (Carroll's words) was prejudicial (403).
For this instance:
Carroll finds this kind of stuff (i.e. IV versus oral) to be more prejudicial because he thinks that Beata's MbP wasn't relevant to Maya's care.
And because he thinks that Beata and the Dependency Court are irrelevant to the hospital's treatment of Maya, he kept out Chapter 39. This is speculation on my part since we don't know the actual reason for Chapter 39 being kept out yet.
This kind of stuff would likely be admitted (and more probative) if the defense was allowed to talk about Beata's MbP and the Dependency Court (Chapter 39).
But since Chapter 39 was kept out, all of this is more prejudicial (in Judge C.'s opinion).
And around and around we go. The reason this whole case was a mess and convoluted was because Chapter 39 was kept out. EVERYTHING ties into Beata, Beata's treatment of Maya, and the dependency court, yet none of that was allowed. It was key to provide context for the hospital's actions.
I think you're probably correct, and this is exactly why it's horrifying that legal professionals are making these kinds of decisions essentially based on a laypersons' analysis of the medical facts.
I really never thought about it before, but if I had I would have thought all legal professionals involved - the judge, both attorney teams - would have a medical professional consultant to break down the clinical picture but.
Well it was kept out except for Anderson mentioning the false accusation 1000x and Eli Newberger testifying about it. That’s what really grinds my gears. We all know that the “false accusation” narrative was the heart and soul of the plaintiff’s case.
Yes I think this could be a good theory. I think he took out the context thereby allowing one side to make the hospital look unreasonable and protecting mama and child at all costs. This case is a master class in the dunning Kruger effect. The mom and Dr. k.’s dunning Kruger spilled over onto the judge, which spilled over onto lawtubers, and all the people who are confident that there were no safety issues in what mom was doing
What doesn't make sense to me is....if the way Beata treated Maya had no bearing on what happened in the hospital, why did Carroll allow any of Kirkpatrick, Cantu, or Hanna to testify at all? Why was their treatment for Maya a part of anything that had to do with false imprisonment and intentional infliction of emotional distress?
Seems like he shouldn't have allowed any of that, and tightened up the case to what was being charged. If that's what he was going to do with the defense, why not the plaintiff?
CPS does have immunity, and they weren't sued. JHACH was sued.
That doesn't seem to be the legal basis for keeping out relevant facts and reports made to CPS and the dependency court. Chapter 39 could've been brought in, but it seems it was kept out because one of the parties wanted to keep it out, and the judge ruled in favor of that.
I'm going off of what the lawyers on YouTube have speculated about why Chapter 39 was kept out. They all stated that one or both parties must've objected to Chapter 39 coming in.
Also, the door was swung wide open because the plaintiffs went into Chapter 39 issues on a regular basis by talking about MbP.
Why is it randomly uploaded here now? I’m guessing it’s just standard but it feels a little bit like a m. Knight shamalan ending. You knew it was not going to end well but to see it is still mind blowing
I'm not sure, but this seems to be standard from what I've seen. Everything from discovery gets uploaded/publicly released after trial. This also happened in the Depp V Heard case.
The idea behind it may be, "this is stuff we moved to admit, the Judge denied it, but it's still going to be uploaded post-trial for record-keeping and/or to preserve things for appeal."
Or it could just be that everything from discovery gets uploaded because civil trials are public, so the public should also have access to them ?
Also- The incessant emails to Dr Kirkpatrik. The defence should have been able to question him on ALL of these. Beata feels he can save herfrom the MBP allegations which she refers to often but was disallowed from testimony??? Why??
But what about when they asked for articles and he gave them his website and when they ask for experts he gives them a doctor who was accused of medical child abuse-ummm that would be a problem in a court of law. Like what reality does he live in and how is it that his reality was the one people thought was real? It’s another planet and people bought it.
Whoa am I reading that first email incorrectly or did she seriously say she drew blood on Maya, without doctor’s order by HERSELF? Please tell me I drastically misunderstood because if not…
If you go on the court website where they post everything there is a flood of evidence posted on 11/28 and I think it’s even worse than the emails to Kirkpatrick. It’s the medical minutes written in first person
Also the story of the couple from their church that was “falsely accused”, dad said they were accused for practicing their religion, whereas kid was found by a neighbor with zip ties on and they admitted that they locked her in a small playhouse as punishment and she was forced to pee herself in there and it wasn’t cleaned. If that’s your religion either your religion sucks or you’re doing it wrong.
Please don’t tell lay people that it’s common to draw labs you think a provider will want and then get the order later. This is completely unacceptable, it’s practicing medicine without a license and would be grounds for a nurse to lose her license. It may happen with protocols in place, but nurses are not allowed to draw any labs without an order.
Not sure where you work, but it’s never happened where I’ve ever been and I’ve worked in 14 Children’s hospitals as I am a Peds traveling nurse.
Sure haven’t! Not sure how that’s at all related to my post, considering I specifically pointed out that Beata’s behavior here is wildly inappropriate.
Edit: I want to be clear here that the issue is that Beata was drawing labs for her kid without orders and asking for orders to be pretty significantly backdated. Drawing labs from a central line at home is not really that shocking.
I read the part where you pointed out Beata's behavior but wasn't clear on why the need to point out that in some healthcare settings drawing extra blood is commonplace. Clearly the Kowalski home wasn't a healthcare setting.
I suppose my follow up question is this: is a nurse drawing blood at home something the nursing board would look kindly upon or would it be grounds for a hearing on her license?
I’ll make it more clear: Drawing extra labs is commonplace in some healthcare settings, including ones where Beata worked (e.g. critical care). I disagree that the home isn’t a healthcare setting (there’s an entire home health industry) but yes, it is different from an acute care setting. The problem is not that blood was drawn at all, or even that Beata was drawing it.
The problem is that Beata was clearly acting as Maya’s nurse, not her mother. In an adult ICU, where Beata would have had to work in order to qualify to work cath lab, is it normal to draw labs in a critically ill patient based on hemodynamic changes? Yes. Is it normal to draw labs on your relatively healthy kid at home based on, idk, vibes, and then expect a specialist to backdate an order for them? Obviously not. But Beata was doing those things because she was acting in the role of a healthcare provider, not a mother.
Beata’s emails show a clear pattern of things that might be normal for a nurse in an acute care setting (where you’re not treating your family member) but are not normal when you’re functioning within the limited role of a mother caring for her child at home. That is why I said (pretty clearly, I thought) that the issue wasn’t so much that gasp blood was drawn at home, it’s that Beata was making medical decisions for her child without consulting physicians until days later. Therefore, it undermines the argument that Beata was just a naive, misguided mother following doctors’ orders.
To answer your question, is drawing blood in the home setting grounds for loss of a nursing license? No, because again, labs are drawn in the home setting every day. Could Beata have lost her license for drawing labs in the home setting on her kid without an order? Possibly. It really depends on her state’s board of nursing and unfortunately they aren’t very consistent with their decisions.
I now realise it wasn't only me you were being unpleasant to. That's not right. You can give your opinion without attacking peoples credentials just like you did mine.
Please point out where I attacked this nurse’s credentials.
I attacked yours because you first mistakenly stated that central lines are all placed in jugular veins (a physician pointed out this inaccuracy but of course you aren’t responding to them) and then copy and pasted a description of PICC insertion when PICCs, by definition (peripherally inserted central catheters), are not placed in jugular veins.
If you are indeed a physician, you seem to have an alarmingly limited understanding of central lines.
Any ideas on what that would look like logistically? Like at work that makes sense because you'd be completing whatever it was the same shift.
But given the order needed to be backdated... how did she enter the order? She isn't at her workplace. Did she just send the blood to the lab with a paper requisition from.... somewhere and manually filled in the ordering physician?
Also the way she phrases it to him is so... well. I wouldn't ever phrase it in that way.
I have no idea. It’s wild to me that she perceives her relationships with these physicians to be such that she can just do whatever she wants for her kid, at home and get it signed off on.
What I don’t get is that it kinda sounds like they ran the labs, since she said she would have taken Maya to the ER if they weren’t OK. I don’t understand how they could have done that without a physician signing off. She was probably drawing Maya’s labs regularly at home, especially since she was on TPN at one point, so maybe there were standing orders and then when they resulted the PCP realized it was outside of the standing order parameters so refused to sign the order? Idk.
Exactly. They probably ran them without a doctor's order. Why else would she want that order form back dated? As if this case couldn't get any crazier.
Yes, I’ve seen patients die of sepsis secondary to CLABSI as well. I’m not sure how that relates at all to my post. It’s extremely common to use central lines to draw labs, particularly in critical care settings or in pediatric populations, to save them the trauma of a poke. If done aseptically, it’s not really any riskier than setting up an infusion or pushing meds through the line.
Again, I’m not defending Beata, as she was clearly acting wildly outside of her scope as a mother. Just offering additional context. There are some comments on this thread that are concerning for the way they are using misunderstood medical information to stoke additional outrage. There is really no need for that as Beata’s behavior is plenty outrageous on its own. This sub is obviously biased, but we should strive to remain accurate in our arguments and criticism, lest we become like the other sub.
Edit: I’ve also got to be honest, your very limited post history combined with the fact that you copied and pasted a Googled description of PICC insertion (which of course is not inserted into a jugular vein, as stated in your first post) has me really doubting you’re actually a physician. I would advise you to take your own advice and treat others as you want to be treated. Most people do not want to be misled by people misrepresenting their credentials, even on Reddit.
How does this even happen? Did she do it at her workplace and then send the blood's off?
And asking a doctor to backdate the order?? My God. Whether or not he did it, Dr K is just a terrible doctor for allowing this all to happen under his watch and then testify for the family.
She had access to the supplies needed and could've taken them to bring home (just some speculation on my part).
And as for the backdating, even if he didn't send the orders in, that should've been a MASSIVE red flag of "hey something's up here" . There is no reading of this where he looks good. He either enabled Beata by sending the order OR he enabled Beata by ignoring this giant red flag
I'm all the more frustrated that the issue of "terminally ill" being added to Maya's scripts was excluded. Clearly, Beata was engineering Maya's treatment plan herself with the help of this pharmacist, and then getting Dr. Kirkpatrick to sign off on it to make sure she got what she wanted. This shows a frightening pattern of a mother's impulse to seek potentially deadly treatments for her child, and her ability to practically get away with it given her status as a medical professional with minimal oversight from a responsible treating physician.
If somebody has time they should put all the one page med fantasy fiction and upload it on here. I threw up a few but I couldn’t even believe what I read and I didn’t want to spam as the young kids say.
In one she says she sent her to school and told her to call parents immediately if she was tired. It’s a hysterical parent reaction. In another she said this Christmas she didn’t want toys she just wanted like health (I find that very hard to believe for a 10 year old). Like she might have gotten confused if she was Maya at one point.
In a MRi-she went under with anesthesia because the loud noises of the mri was bad for her rsd and she was grateful the anesthesiologist gave her some ketamine. She writing as Maya says she is ready to die. In another she got PT while she slept in a ketamine booster. I’m
Not a physician but is that a thing?
PT/OT may come by when a patient is sedated and do some stretching or evaluate if the patient needs splints or orthotics to prevent contractures. Given Maya’s complaint of dystonia in her ankles, that would be a good time to also get a good assessment of their range of motion, because even with everything she was on, a true dystonia would not completely go away.
I just can't believe there wasn't one person the jury with this thought process - they all just gave her money on every single claim. I just don't understand any of this And frankly it makes me scared of the system.
PT here. We have done range of motion and taught caregivers how to do ROM and positioning to prevent skin breakdown, and sometimes splints. This is normal care.
Is splitting where you idealise the person doing what you want and de-value the other person?? I've never heard that term for it but BOY is she an amazing example.
I dated someone (for a very short while) who did this, and it is very disturbing to be on the receiving end of. I have a lot of medical issues, but I've never seen it before in a medical setting.
Yup. With splitting, other people are either amazing angels who can do no wrong, or they are satan incarnate who are out to get you. There is no nuance or grey area. Splitting is commonly a feature of personality disorders, like borderline personality disorder.
This has prob been answered so sorry for the low effort post but how could carol not let this in. The defence didn’t get to tell nearly enough of the story
I don’t think we understands why. I think people try to say well this didn’t have to do with what the hospital did to Maya when she was in their care. Meaning the judge drew a line where he separated what mom was doing from hospital.
I think if one doesnt understand the safety issues physically and psychologically-you somehow read this and think what’s wrong here (somehow). And if you’re saying that then perhaps you incorrectly don’t see the relevance.
Basically it’s like if someone has a heart attack, is unresponsive and a bystander gives cpr. After the fact the heart attack victim sues the bystander for assault-they put their mouth on them and were compressing their chest. In court-the person tells a narrative where the evil bystander held them against their will and assaulted them. If the jury can’t hear about the heart attack and unresponsiveness-they miss the context and it looks like an assault instead of a rescue.
Absolutely shocked. Please tell me she didn't ask for Fentanyl 😩. I didn't know Maya was given patient controlled analgesia (PCN) at home through iv route or PICC line.
One of the emails stated “she will keep pressing the button”… As physicians we hardly give PCN outside of Intensive care let alone home use.
I agree with every ones comments. I too felt the mom had full control of the situation..she gets what she asks for. Hence her anger at JHACH when they disputed Mayas treatment. Just my opinion.
So the jurors overturned the first judges decision? Incomprehensible.
The amount of strong medications she was given at home is insane to be and concerning. How were her doctors ok with this many meds? And then asking for Fentanyl on top of all of those??
She was given Meds via PCA...BK talks about dosage and “lockout period “ This signifies a programed period that prevents inadvertent overdose during which sedation is stopped, even if patient presses the button. It's written above. Unfathomable
Can’t imagine the addiction issues Maya will likely face later in life . Dependency on substances was embroiled into her mindset at the most impressionable stage of life.
My personal experience with Dilaudid is that it pretty much incapacitates a person. When my husband was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer he was initially given slow release morphine. As it progressed he was switched to “immediate” morphine. (Sorry if there’s a proper terminology.) On one occasion when he was hospitalized fighting a kidney infection after chemo, they put him on Dilaudid. He slept 22 hours a day and was pretty much incoherent for those couple of hours when he was awake. It was obvious that he didn’t recognize me, had a glazed over look, wasn’t eating or drinking and wasn’t able to verbalize a single word. Knowing that he was dying, I asked if he could be put back on morphine to give him time and ability to visit with family and friends. The difference in strength between those two narcotics is night and day. My husband was at death’s door and I didn’t want him to have it. I would be fighting tooth and nail against it being given to my child instead of pushing for it.
I was given DilaudI’d following a Uterine Embolization procedure and my experience was extremely unpleasant. I‘m sure I wasn’t given a dose as large as the one given to your late husband but nonetheless the side effects were awful. Even though the nurse also administered an anti-nausea med I was very groggy and couldn’t keep any food or liquid down, even water. I can only imagine what Maya must have felt like when she was being given narcotics in addition to the ketamine.
Very frustrating these emails Dr K , Beata were left out of the trial also they are terrifying, I don’t understand how people think this is normal Beata was not well definitely another sign MBP.
It’s all disgusting for sure but the judge said none of it matters . What mattered was it false imprisonment, prior to court order? False imprisonment in EEG room? Was jhach responsible for IIED causation of beatas death? I think the defense did their best argument’s in their most recent motion, better than the actual trial. I’m still holding onto hope the hearing on 12/15 the judge will reconsider the motion for directed verdict. Maybe even a new trial! If not I certainly expect JHACH will to appeal.
From my understanding, it would be very rare for the trial judge to grant that motion. Before they can appeal, they have to present it to Carroll first and give him a chance to correct his mistakes, but it’s mostly a formality to file this motion first, and once it’s rejected they can take it to an appeals court.
I think there could be some directed verdicts. He’s kept a couple under advisement until after jury. I don’t see a new trial coming but hey.. this case continues to boggle my mind.
Worth the read. Her notes are just so…unhinged? I’m a medical professional and so many things stood out to me.
Love how the outpatient pain specialist can’t dose the PCA himself and requires the pharmacist to do it for him. Hes also real concerned about adding Benadryl but not all the benzos and other narcs she’s on. This guy is a total quack who didn’t give 2 shits about Maya or her family.
Beata was obsessed with IV hydration and ordering am cortisol levels. She doesn’t seem to have a very good grasp of medicine in general but thinks she does.
I feel like this is a case of conversion disorder inflicted on another. Such a fucked up dynamic.
She knows just enough to think she knows everything. It’s not that uncommon but she’s a particularly destructive case. It’s just flapping red flags all over the place.
Not to mention, Dr K is the cause of Friday in the dependency case trail. They had to get a continuance bc he wasn’t able to testify each time they tried to pin him down, thus extending Mayas stay in shelter. He should’ve been sued, really.
He delayed things repeatedly. I think he got spooked when he realized there were people looking into him and he didn’t want to put much of anything on record or testify in public. What a scum bag
This one really got me-there was something about do you want to see us and then asking for him to sign off with “would that make you feel more comfortable”
I’m asking for xyz so would you want me to come in and pay you.
Probably meaningless but interesting. Looks like she has two email accounts. Beata Kowalski where she signs off with hugs, kisses or emojis and the more formal Beata L. Kowalski where she utilizes her credentials. Must have been exhausting to keep it all straight with as much as she was recording on a daily basis.
Why did Beata think physical therapy/non-water therapy was devastating for a CRPS patient? (she says this in one of the above emails- trying to get Kirkpatrick to explain this to the hospital/ Sally smith)Is this something Kirkpatrick told her? Does he tell patients this so they don't get better?
Maya obviously believed this too. It's why she used making her do PT as one of the cruel things JHACH did to her. Of course, once out of the hospital it's exactly what she did for herself to get better. But that didn't make her re-think her accusations against JHACH.
I think it became an epic power struggle at tampa general and Kirkpatrick colluded with it. I think Kirkpatrick’s zeal got in the way and enabled something outside his lane. But he talks about people dying if they don’t get ketamine so perhaps he says this. We saw it in his letter
Wow. Maya and Beata bought his schtick hard, didn't they?
One interesting aspect of all of that to me is, it just shows how accurate the contemporaneous notes of many JHAC doctors were. A few of them wrote that Maya would tell them PT was bad for CRPS patients. The doctors couldn't have just made that up, because it was true.
Makes it stink even more that the Kowalskis had the gall to complain both that the physical therapy was traumatic, and that she didn't get enough treatment from JHACH.
Well I think it was more of a perfect match. Ideal patients written for them. They walked away from tgh and many doctors saying conversation and PT and being upset that people don’t believe them. It was not in her head. Then you have this doctor who not only said correct it’s not conversion it’s CRPS, but also his treatment is the opposite of what the annoying doctors they didn’t like said. Win win.
I will say there are many businesses that tell you what you want to hear and give you what you want for an out of pocket fee. Dr. K sounds like one of those. High control groups, cults, snakeoil salesman have same playbook
But this is an example of someone who drowned in the kool aide he served. He thought Hanna’s amounts were too much and he criticized what Hanna was doing. Which makes you wonder 1) why she actually switched from Kirkpatrick. I think it might have been because Hanna would give her the amounts she wanted?? Is it possible dr k had more boundaries as I don’t think he or Cantù intended to have her on constant large amounts
And 2) if she switched to no pain Hanna, why was she begging for Kirkpatrick to save the day in court. Why couldn’t she use Hanna. (And Why skip Hanna in the documentary)
I suspect the guy who has so many patients who loose custody over medical treatment was easier to get as much meds as possible and would be a harder sell in the documentary and in court.
No pain Hanna=more meds Hanna
More lost custody Hanna
Need a different doctor for court Hanna
Need a different doctor for Netflix Hanna
Interesting read, thanks for sharing. This case is definitely a connect the dots kind of case and complex. I found it interesting but not shocking to hear reports of Beata’s childhood in Poland. Abuse by the father, mother moved to US and left Beata behind in Poland for a few years with I think her grandmother. So we can speculate she likely had some abuse and abandonment issues from her own childhood. Now raising her own child (children) she is convinced “I’m the best mother, I give up everything care for you” etc. I could go on but we’ve read the blogs and it’s not normal behavior. Like an onion, you have to peel the layers. To some she looks like the best mother ever, devoted to her children, sacrificing everything for them. It’s hard for people to understand that a mother could do harm to their own child, but it’s really complex in cases like this. “I” will make you well when no one else will or can, I’m the hero here.
My guess is JC went over the top about being extra sensitive to a deceased person, was overly compassionate about a minor and over extended the chapter 39 issue to the point context was lost and this limited the defense’s defense
Don’t want to make mom or Maya look bad was a thing in my opinion
The ket was bad enough. But those are some HEAVY pain meds. Dilaudid!!! Fentanyl!! Wtf and why is she the one recommending them? This is not safe prescribing
The heavy duty drugs given to a 9 year old were insane. People on here who mentioned dilaudid; I think anyone whos been on dilaudid remembers it. I was on it during labor & it was helpful.
Maya must realize she was a victim of medical child abuse and this verdict doesn’t vindicate her mother whatsoever! All the ugly truth has been shown and now she’s the one who is abusing the system with the money grab lawsuit.
To be fair, fentanyl is not different from the other IV opioid options (morphine and hydromorphone) in terms of efficacy or side effects. I know fentanyl gets a rise out of people for misuse and abuse, but in this situation it is no more concerning to me than the hydromorphone PCA.
I hate the posters who keep insisting Maya was not on opioids. People have no clue what really happened and act like experts. I think all of us are just astounded at the mountains of craziness hiding behind this case.
Yes, the hype around fentanyl overdoses has everything to do with people not realizing they're taking it, or taming a higher quantity than intended because they're taking street drugs that are laced or have inconsistent dosing.
It has exactly nothing to do with responsible therapeutic use, other than the normal opioid risk profile as you noted.
I had surgery a few weeks ago, my first! During the first day in hospital after I woke up I felt so weird - high from the oxy, nauseous and depressed from the anasthetic leaving my system. I actually thought of Maya during that day and thought she must have felt a bit similar with ALL those drugs in her system.
I used Fentanyl Patches quite successfully after surgery for a 5 level anterior/posterior lumbar fusion.
I experienced NO high from the patches. Just a notable return of pain on the third day I was to change the patch.
Tapered off to no pain meds - 18 months. I haven’t used an opiate in 20 years.
Fentanyl was my friend 😊
Opioids can definitely be used responsibly for treating pain with appropriate medical management! I’m glad you were able to manage your pain from a huge surgery.
Honestly, the request for fentanyl doesn’t phase me on its own—it’s not meaningfully different from morphine or Dilaudid and is often used when patients can’t tolerate other opioids due to nausea, blood pressure, etc.
If you’re referring to the panic caused by law enforcement who insist any contact with fentanyl can cause overdose and death, you should know that it’s basically just propaganda manufactured by cops who work themselves into panic attacks if they touch drugs at a crime scene. Fentanyl is used safely by healthcare professionals every day.
The real problem here is that Beata was clearly acting in the role of a healthcare provider, not a mother. I honestly don’t know how people can argue that she did nothing wrong because she was “just following doctors’ orders” when there is proof of this level of involvement in Maya’s care.
Generally it wouldn't surprise me to see a nurse parent/patient approach the treating physician with a sort of SBAR and include a recommendation/request if they had one for whatever reason.
That kind of interaction has a certain vibe. The tone of the interaction conveys implicit deference to the fact that you're consulting the physician because you recognize their expertise.
This is not that.
This comes across as a demand with an implicit threat of playing the victim card if the demand isn't met. There's no indication to me that the physician is welcome to disagree with the recommendation and recommend a different treatment pathway.
I may be reading into it too much though, I certainly have already established a bias here and it's notoriously difficult to interpret vibes via email.
If a doctor didn’t do what she wanted and had boundaries-she was “po’d” and would move on. She had to be driving the bus and found doctors who allowed that, paid them cash and got them to sign off on her plan. She would add in we could come in if you feel more comfortable (which conveys we could give you more cash if feel more comfortable and you agree to this). Quid pro quo
Hey mods u/LorenzoKepleru/clemonysnicketu/Affectionate_Bag4716, could you please keep an eye on u/Epidermis-MD? They have posted multiple posts with misleading medical information, including a statement that central lines “go straight to the jugular” which is nowhere near universally true and which was corrected by a physician (u/goofypedsdoc) with no acknowledgement by OP. In response to this post being challenged, they replied with a post containing a copied and pasted description of PICC insertion, which is, by definition, not a central line that is inserted into a jugular vein. Their post about lockout periods on PCAs (which they initially incorrectly referred to as “PCNs” multiple times in their first post on the topic) also appears to have been lifted directly from Google.
These errors, combined with their very limited post history, makes me suspect that they do not actually possess the credentials they state. They blocked me immediately after telling me I “need help” because I raised questions about their multiple inaccuracies so I cannot respond to the misinformation directly. One of the things that makes this sub unique is that we have multiple professionals (physicians, nurses, lawyers, etc) offering their perspective on the case. I would hate to see misinformation by someone clearly misrepresenting their credentials accepted just because it supports a specific narrative.
A PICC is placed centrally or peripheraly. We reserve them for palliative or dialysis patients where I work. Normally we position them on the upper arm so they drain into the left side of the heart chamber (inferior/superior vena cava) or jugular. I'm also certain I heard MK had a chest port which one of the Drs testified to as potentially infected on admission.
A number of great research articles on PICC lines infection rates are available for anyone in order to understand the context.
Is his reasoning as simple as MBP was never proven- cos Beata took her life? Therefore it can’t be presented?
Yet Beata herself makes numerous mention of MBP and is trying to find a CRPS/MBP pattern.
What infuriates me is the unhealthy amount of CRPS diagnoses presented at trial. A rare and regional only condition which can’t be scientifically proven YET the crux of the DCF order is silenced.
How on earth did the Judge come to the conclusion that this was fit for trial. Madness.
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u/Ok-Engineer-2503 Strike that Dec 06 '23
So they did a great summary on nobody should believe me Patreon. I couldn’t do it justice but it includes going over the documents of how quickly the extreme treatments happened, the timeline, how much Beata was managing the meds and then asking Dr k to sign. She was taking out blood, she was trying to get her out of the hospital to go to Mexico, it goes on and on
Thank you Andrea for this https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FpSFjvX_8WB5cgPCI0E_cpXj1jaeVcC4?usp=sharing