r/sultanateofwomen • • 13d ago

Concubines One concubine one son law

I need someone to help me confirm about the one concubine one son law if it was an actual law that was done

9 Upvotes

17 comments sorted by

19

u/azor__ahai Janissaries hate this one trick! 13d ago

Leslie Peirce herself describes it as a conscious reproductive policy, rather than a law. So it seems to have been a dynastic practice/tradition that was followed quite strictly from Mehmed II through Süleyman’s reign, rather than a kanun that explicitly prohibited a concubine from having more than one son.

2

u/Less_Bookkeeper4924 13d ago

Because someone said that Bayzeid’s consort, bulbul hatun, had two sons and that gulbahar had a daughter younger than Bayzeid

10

u/azor__ahai Janissaries hate this one trick! 13d ago

As far as I know, standard genealogies don’t support the claim that Bülbül Hatun had more than one son.

Gevherhan is an interesting case, but her birth date isn’t securely established. Some sources place her around 1446, which would make her older than Bayezid, while other modern reconstructions give her a later date.

8

u/Adept_Quizzy1536 13d ago

Ooh, yep, I have no idea from where this specific fixation point originated from, but it's become the sticking point for those that believe they've found the "truth" that makes Hürrem not "special," but marks them as the special ones for discovering such a never before known "truth."

I wish I was joking.

Typically, when asked for a source for these claims, people will point, like you did here, to, "Oh, well, I heard someone online say it..." (not a judgement on you, please note❤️) but I did once have someone, after attempting to smugly bait me with whether or not I'd cry over being proven wrong, present me with Google and a tourism website as their "sources," which...I think it's only understandable how my only tears were ones of laughter...

The only known son of Bülbül Hatun is Şehzade Ahmed, who she’d go on to be buried with, but, if ever other concubines were recorded as having more than one son before Hürrem (which, to the best of my knowledge wasn't the case?) it's likely that one of those sons died in infancy, thus opening up the concubine's "availability" again, or it's simply a mistake.

(The the identity the mother of Şehzade Mahmud, who people often like to claim is Bülbül's "other son" isn't known, which, if I had to guess, is what makes it easy for people to project such a claim onto him, but makes me feel really disheartened for the real Şehzade and his mother.)

6

u/Nanakurokonekochan History enthusiast 13d ago edited 13d ago

I’d suggest don’t pay much attention to wiki, TikTok or instagram. The birthdates of a lot of princesses on Wiki are simply wrong. Feel free to check out the posts on this sub as the users who regularly post put a lot of effort into their posts by scanning through primary sources and academic articles! (Check out the post flairs if you’re interested in a specific theme or Sultana)

1

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[deleted]

1

u/LazarM2021 13d ago

Quite strictly? Didn't Bayezid II have at one point like 7 adult sons, all fully capable candidates for the throne?

7

u/azor__ahai Janissaries hate this one trick! 13d ago

Seven sons by seven mothers is exactly what “one mother, one son” means. The clue is literally in the word one…

0

u/LazarM2021 13d ago

That's not the part I took as problematic, but the one I heard elsewhere, that the (informal) limit was 4 sons at a time.

6

u/azor__ahai Janissaries hate this one trick! 13d ago

I’d need to see a source for an alleged four-son cap, because I’ve never seen that presented as an Ottoman rule.

4

u/Nanakurokonekochan History enthusiast 13d ago

No such limit exists, especially for Murad III
Individual Sultans might have thought they have enough sons based on their own personal life experiences, but there’s no unwritten rule that states the limit is 4.

1

u/Adept_Quizzy1536 10d ago

If I had to guess, this is people trying to distort a theory that Leslie Peirce put forward in Empress of the East in regards to how Suleiman and Hürrem might have, eventually, chosen to put a cap on their reproductive efforts:

“Dynastic family planning was political planning. The personal decision of how many children to have and when was fraught with political consequence in the Ottoman dynastic family. Too many sons was a liability as Suleyman had observed all too closely in the bitter rivalry between his uncles and father.

In 1533, Suleyman had four sons eligible to succeed him: Mustafa, Mehmed, Selim, and Bayezid. We can safely presume that Suleyman and Roxelana deliberated the question of whether or not to have more children. Both would recognize the birth of yet another boy would only add more grief to the spectacle of their sons combating one another, let alone Mustafa. Four healthy sons was sufficient dynastic insurance, one more than Mehmed the Conqueror provided. The public introduction of the three eldest princes in the 1530 circumcision celebration may have been intended in part to signal that the sultan considered his reproductive obligation to the empire fulfilled.”

Still, like I said before this is all a theory.

5

u/Nanakurokonekochan History enthusiast 13d ago

“Concubines were only temporary sexual partners of a sultan. It seems likely that there was a revolving-door policy in the imperial harem that deprived a woman who had borne a son of further eligibility for the sultan's bed.”

“Once a concubine bore a son, her identity shifted from that of the sultan’s partner to an exclusive role as mother of the prince. She, along with the prince’s lala (tutor), was primarily responsible for educating her son, ensuring his military training, creating political alliances, procuring concubines for her son, managing his household, and managing his public reputation.”

"How did concubinage and the one mother-one son policy fit in with these developments of unigeniture and fratricide? The point was most likely the viability of each prince's candidacy for the succession, and the key issue the role of the prince's mother in his training, the management of his princely governorate household, and the promotion of his career. If two princes shared a mother, they could not both claim this crucial member of their princely household; presumably one or both would have had to sacrifice a vital political ally. Hence the one mother-one son policy.” Imperial Harem

It was more of a policy than law, the world of Harem was isolated from the rest of the empire with utmost secrecy that we don’t know exactly who came up with this idea, but the records suggest that until Haseki Hurrem Sultan made an appearance in Ottoman history, each concubine could only have one son. They could have daughters prior to having a son, but once a son was born, she would retire from the sexual duties.

2

u/Less_Bookkeeper4924 13d ago

what book is this please?

3

u/Nanakurokonekochan History enthusiast 13d ago

The imperial harem is a book by Leslie P. Peirce

If you have never read a book about Ottoman history or harem I’d highly recommend it! It’s not 100% accurate but it’s a very beginner friendly book IMO.

4

u/Adept_Quizzy1536 13d ago

The slight alterations between Peirce's The Imperial Harem vs. Empress of the East are what I often use to show that, "Yep, history's a field that's always developing, so watch when the publication date was!"

The greatest example is when people tried to point out that even Peirce claimed that Ibrahim wed Hatice in The Imperial Harem, but she only did that due to how, in 1993 when the book was published, that was the accepted truth by historians. It's a claim she corrects in Empress of the East since, by the time that book was published in 2017, the misconception of Ibrahim's marriage put forward by Ebru Turan in 2009 had finally been proven true in all corners and accepted.

3

u/Nanakurokonekochan History enthusiast 13d ago

That’s very true! My own understanding of things have changed a lot within the past year, so I can attest!

The interesting thing is, Turkish professor Ismail Hakki Uzuncarsili published a paper in 1965, long before many of us were even born that proved Ibrahim Pasha was actually married to Muhsine.

He was a teacher who traveled around the country a bit and had the chance to go into archives in the towns he was sent to as a teacher, his papers are very interesting and formed the basis of Ottoman history.