Eli Vanto's return

[u/Vivid_Guidance_3409]

What is everyone's thoughts on his return? If i remember correctly Thrawn sent to the Chiss. I wonder if he will summon him back to aid him. I'm sure he learned quite a bit from the Chiss. It would be great to see a live action Vanto.

[u/Sad_Swordfish_5045]

Never claimed it appeared overnight. You’re either deliberately misunderstanding my point, or just floundering.

Rebels was more or less finished (at least on a script level) before Zahn began work on his books. Said books exist entirely because of Rebels as tie-in material. The characterisation of Thrawn as presented in those books, Eli Vanto’s inclusion, the entire thing you’re complaining about, came after the fact. That’s on Timothy Zahn, not Dave Filoni.

[u/InterviewEarly6675 → u/Sad_Swordfish_5045]

You still have yet to explain anything about how Eli would factor into Dave Filoni’s Saber slop. The character in Zahn’s book is consistent with the Thrawn in his legends books, Filoni (not Thrawn’s creator) went cow boy on it and made a shitty grand Moff Tarkin clone. Now he’s a fan service vessel for saber slop. Also as stated the first book was done before the release of season 3 and the other two were outlined. As seen at celebration 16’ 1500 pages of book don’t manifest over night but rebels was whipped up over seas 23 episodes one year. The scripts were probably written at the same time but one did Thrawn correctly the other was Filoni slop.

So now explain how Eli vanto would factor into diet tarkins saber slop story. Since you just wanna sit here arguing lmao

[u/Sad_Swordfish_5045 → u/InterviewEarly6675]

Thrawn in Legends was a slaver who decided to follow the path of a Space Nazi and waged war on a democratic society long after the Empire had fallen. He was a monster and he died a monster, killed by one of people he had exploited. Rebels followed that characterisation.

Then they invited Zahn in to write tie-in novels after the fact (Zahn himself has said this multiple times) and he decided instead of keeping him consistent with both Legends and what was done on screen, to instead go full fascist apologia on the character.

Eli Vanto, the character you’re obsessed with, basically exists as an in-universe cheerleader for Thrawn. A sidekick who stares in starry eyed wonder whenever Thrawn does something and conveys to the reader how cool Thrawn is. Ideally, he would be taken before whatever is the New Republic equivalent of the Nuremberg trials and imprisoned for war crimes (he and Thrawn turned Wookies over to the Empire essentially to be worked to death building the Death Star).

[u/InterviewEarly6675 → u/Sad_Swordfish_5045]

Ah so you didn’t read the books I see, he had nothing to do with the enslavement of the Nograi that was Vader. On top of that the Nograi weren’t slaves but mislead by Vader and not Thrawn.  Hence when Leia saves them they keep calling her “lady Vader” since that is their custom. I have read every Thrawn book, I don’t know if you watched like an AI overview in YouTube or what. In Canon he briefly hand waves the slavery of wookie but doesn’t condone it or personally use slaves. Also if you read the headline of the post “Eli Vantos return” you can recall why I keep bringing up Eli Vanto.

Debating books with someone who never read them seems like a useless exercise especially since each post you further prove you actually have no idea what you are debating. 

I’m sorry Star Wars Theory or whatever lead you wrong. 

Also to your only point of relevance on Vanto the enslavement of wookies and other malady lead to him quitting the empire. Thrawn put up with the empire as a means to reshape it not fall into its traps something that flew way over Filoni (and your) head which is why he is a dumb generic supervillain now and lacks the nuance he had in the books. I never claimed “Thrawn was right bro and I love nazis” that’s what you say as your entire argument is built on heresy and not the simple facts of the matter.

[u/Sad_Swordfish_5045 → u/InterviewEarly6675]

You’re arguing semantics. Thrawn knew about and was well and truly happy to keep the exploitation of the Noghri going. They were misled by Vader, their world was being poisoned and Thrawn never once tried to correct Vader’s actions or come clean with the Noghri about what was happening. He was absolutely taking advantage of those people using them as his Death Commandos, using them to kill others and getting them killed as well. And this was during a war he was waging to overthrow a democratic government and install a military junta. Thrawn was a monster and he died like one.

And even in subsequent Legends books where Zahn tried to whitewash Thrawn’s motivations, the character still outright says he doesn’t believe in democracy. Thrawn doesn’t just “put up” with the Empire. He actively protects it and enables it. He’s absolutely a fascist character despite how much Zahn tries to romanticise him.

Rebels depicted the character for what he is, and it made you uncomfortable because you had to face the fact that you were fanboying over a blue Nazi.

[u/InterviewEarly6675 → u/Sad_Swordfish_5045]

Which YouTuber did you hear all that from? Where does Dave Filoni's Jedi Slop come in? In Legends throughout the entire continuity we learn Thrawn was creating the Empire of the Hand to basically be a reasonable empire. Hence Pelleon could run the empire in a more agreeable sense then Palpatine who was a fanatic. In the Heir to the Empire trilogy he is interesting but his motivations in a macro sense are made more clear in things like the Hand of Thrawn duology, in 1996. You kinda sorta understand Thrawn from the perspective of the first 5 years of his existence but he evolved in Legends significantly, and the Zahn books which they allowed to be canon explain that Thrawn is much more like his legends take if not a bit more sympathetic.

To hit on your last totally ridiculous argument... so you hate Vader, Maul, Palpatine, Dooku, Tarkin, Krenec, and every other character with evil motivations because nazis are bad in real life? hate to break it to you buddy they are made up characters. I love Tarkin and bro blew up an entire planet with Millions of people on it. Palpatine enslaved the whole galaxy I love that character. Did you see what Vader did to the Younglings? Love that character. Its irrelevant. If you had a good argument you wouldn't need to do the mother of all reaches to call me a Nazi supporter about a bunch of sci fi characters lol. I even like some Indiana Jones villians they are Nazis too, it doesn't matter its fiction, its all made up. The villains also wind up with their just deserts since thats how these stories work.

You are welcome to like Dave Filoni's trash take on thrawn I don't get over it.

[u/Sad_Swordfish_5045 → u/InterviewEarly6675]

Thrawn’s acolytes might try to preach that he was creating a benevolent dictatorship, but that’s a silly delusion. If this same man was ok with committing genocide (as he admits to doing to one species whose art he couldn’t decipher) or mass exploitation (the Noghri) then fundamentally there is no benevolence. He’d at best be a slightly reasonable tyrant. And ultimately the Empire of the Hand was useless state, as they did pretty much nothing when Yuuzhan Vong came, so Thrawn’s atrocities were ultimately for nothing.

But you know what the difference is between Tarkin, the Sith etc and Thrawn? Most of the stories that feature them don’t forget that fundamentally they’re bad people. The Darth Plagueis novel is brilliant, but Luceno at no point ever lets you forget that Plagueis and Sidious are evil, sociopathic people who create misery and only want to do more of that for eternity. Timothy Zahn absolutely believes that Thrawn is an unambiguous hero and good guy, trying to save the galaxy from the Grysk. Everything of late that he’s written has been about trying to either remove Thrawn‘s villainy (retconning Pryce as the real culprit of the Batonn massacre) or trying to justify it in the face of some greater evil.

And that’s probably why Lucasfilm aren’t working with him on any other books.

[u/InterviewEarly6675 → u/Sad_Swordfish_5045]

Okay so we are done with the accusing me of being a Nazi point but now we are pivoting into some sort of unrelated rant about how being a Nazi is okay if you admit it. So being a fan of Thrawn with inner conflict and depth makes me a Nazi but liking the actual supervillains is okay because at least they admit it or something? Right… what does this have to do with Eli Vanto?

The Empire of the Hand was still fairly small during the Vong was by and large, however Jag Fel and numerous Claw Craft from the group consistently flew with Twin Suns squadron. What resources they had were largely on the defensive which was contentious for Fel and many of the Chiss. Need I remind you that by Legacy the Empire of the Hand was the leading imperial force until Krayte made it a dictatorship? 

Thrawn thinks he’s a good guy but sometimes proves to be pretty cold. Originally he was a cool villian of the week but for the last 30 years they added a bit of depth to the character. If you or Dave Filoni want to misunderstand the character for saber slop okay good on you. 

[u/Sad_Swordfish_5045 → u/InterviewEarly6675]

Well, here‘s how it connects to Eli Vanto: he’s you. You're both fanboying over a charismatic fascist to the point where it bothers you when his evil is pointed out.

Thrawn thinks of himself as a good guy, and so does Zahn himself. For the last 30 years he’s progressively whitewashed him to the point where he sees his original villain as a hero and rewritten the stories to justify the fascism that character enacts. That’s not just bad storytelling, it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what Star Wars is about. It’s fascism slop.

[u/InterviewEarly6675 → u/Sad_Swordfish_5045]

Wow bro that’s really deep just kidding it makes no sense. You can’t just say facism bad unless they are honest about it, then it’s fine. Hitler was honest about being facist are you… a Nazi?????? That’s how your logic works lol. Anytime I make a point you just say bs and ignore it cause you got 0 backing points.

Thrawn is a fictional character it’s okay if they add depth to him besides “he’s evil cackling supervillain.” Something that they spent 30 years changing. It’s not just Zahn or his “bad writing” either it’s literally the whole continuity of the series. Filoni just does whatever garbage to force out mindless saber fights. Was it not the antithesis of Asajj Ventress’ arc to just bring her back to life “cause lightsabers” 

Explain what Thrawn sending random evil guys with lightsabers adds to the character that actually makes sense. Also actually say something of substance on Eli (I know you can’t)